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On July 22 2011 10:26 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:20 Senx wrote:On July 22 2011 10:18 farvacola wrote:On July 22 2011 10:13 Senx wrote:On July 22 2011 10:08 travis wrote:
lol ppl here are so naturally competitive here everything needs to have a clear winner and loser. Did AG win? Did Milkis win? WHO WON DAMNIT!! AG won because Milkis was pushed off the starting line before the race even began. I felt really sorry for him, getting accused for lack of journalist etiquette and then being silenced by DJWheat as soon as he's about to say something about the subject and then gives AG another 5 minute rant. My god that was a complete slaughter... Milkis did nothing wrong in this whole thing, he tried to contact EG but didn't get any statement.
He posted a translation on a forum and gets this treatment.zz WRONG, have you been paying no attention? Milkis put his attempt at communication on twitter, a decidedly PUBLIC means of sending a message, usually meant more to be read by many then by a few, and you wonder why EG doesn't immediately respond? Have you no idea how public opinion works? Milkis effectively cut AG off at the very start, so quit your whining. So you mean EG doesn't read TL and can't PM milkis on twitter or here? Or just make a statement on their own? I'm really confused. Because I know they do read and post here. With obviously controversial news like this, a preemptive release of any information, even if in the mundane form a new topic on TL, is simply underhanded, in every sense of the word. Communication, even when in the form of a forum post or a twitter, is made strategic and meaningful given its time, place, and context, and there are ramifications as such. The immediate and unquestioning release of a translated news snippet from Korea without its affected parties being aware is not an honorable thing to do, especially in a case where cultural misunderstanding is likely to take place.
I'd rather have the news as it happens, in most situations the other party will give it's information immediately as a response as is necessary. FXOBoss is just one example of someone who is immediately there to comment on anything regarding FXO and I have a lot of respect for him because of it, Jason Lake will often comment on things regarding Complexity... It's not hard. SirScoots got a message on twitter from Milkis 16+ hours ago, we've seen managers and players respond within minutes.
It's silly to hold Milkis to journalistic standards and completely ignore the dynamic of the community, everyone is coming to the same thread for information, it's not like I'm reading a New York Times article once and then never looking up the company they talked about because I trust the source. Here, that company can pretty release a statement in the exact same format as Milkis on the exact same site, getting the exact same traffic and reaching the same audience. It's not like some stupid Facebook comments at the bottom of a News Article, EG has the exact same tools. Milkis gets a post, EG gets a post, everyone in the community gets to post.
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Jesus, BOTH SIDES HAD A COMMUNICATION ERROR.
IF you guys did not here PuMa SAID HIMSELF that he wanted to talk to the coach rather then having EG contact TSL's coach and then before PuMa is even being signed the news broke, so basically EG really didn't even had a chance to get a hold fo the coach.
Don't be mad guys, it was never unmorall or unethical. There was a misscomunication error and like AG said, there needs to be both sides of the story BEFORE it has been release to the public.
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On July 22 2011 10:31 Earll wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 09:59 gurrpp wrote:On July 22 2011 09:57 zoLo wrote:On July 22 2011 09:55 saint_d wrote:On July 22 2011 09:53 StarStruck wrote:On July 22 2011 09:52 chipmonklord17 wrote:On July 22 2011 09:51 StutteR wrote:On July 22 2011 09:50 Corrosive wrote:
Milkis getting defensive for no reason. AG is dumping a bunch of bullshit on him. This is not on Milkis. EG needs to take care of its own PR problems. Don't blame the community. Don't blame a valued member of our community. Nothing is bullshit about what he's saying. Milkis has brought up multple sources to confirm the transfer and none of them were EG. It's EG's job to post a Press Statement for f sake. /facepalm It's EG's job to post a press statement about them maybe picking up a player? It is. If you follow news from other teams, they often post a press statement about acquiring a player. EG recently picked up floe, Choco Blanka, and Momochi and they even put out a statement, but for some reason they didn't for Puma. Because they haven't even signed him yet. Still, it doesn't really give them an excuse to get up in milkis' grill for not seeking a statement from eg. He didn't get up in milkis grill about not getting a statement, he said that like literally 15 times. "I am not blaming\accusing you of anything." he said that exact statement SO many times. he was merely saying that he COULD have contacted EG. and had milkis wanted a nonbiased post\thread about it, then he SHOULD have obviosuly gotten statements from both sides, not just the Coach lee side. He did not, which is fine too. But getting all up in EG's grill because they say "hey why didnt you try to get both sides of the story" is pretty meh. To me Milkis came off somewhat bad, trying to throw sort of petty jabs at alex and making what to me seemed like unrelated comments at times, whereas alex tried to explain the situation.
I disagree with you. To be fair both of them are stubborn and AG is just as guilty as Milkis for going off tangent and avoiding the main issue.
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On July 22 2011 10:27 Daedra wrote:
Milkis also didn't do anything wrong, it is his job to translate, not write a formal article. But I can see where EG is coming from, a huge thread on this issue and a lot of it hate on EG when the facts weren't known.
It's pretty sticky, and certainly a discussion for another thread, but I feel it might be a TL moderation thing, the topic should be closed until they get a statement from EG then re-opened, leaving it open I fear just leads to 100's of pages of baseless speculation before anyone from EG even has a chance to wake up in the morning.
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On July 22 2011 10:24 Tegin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:13 TWIX_Heaven wrote:
I really do not see the problem. You guys are seriously going nuts.
1. Puma was not on a contract
2. Puma made the decision to go
3. Going around the team is not even shady as there where no contract - Puma can do as he wants
4. Puma will properly get paid now regardless of prizes - which is good.
5. Neither EG nor Puma apparently has no obligations towards TSL - besides moral ones.
So why cant we be happy for Puma and EG? I mean, it sounds like good old butt-hurt to me, and frankly that is just as childish and selfish as anything else.
Just my 2c This is exactly how I see it. Not sure why everyone is so mad over this.
And since the West sees it this way, Korean teams are going to clamp down and make sure they don't get robbed again. As I've posted or almost posted before, Puma's NASL victory is a product of his hard work and talent, and team TSL's hard work and support. I don't think he would have achieved that win with team EG. He would be the next Select of NA, really good, but to put it strictly in NASL results Select<MC<Puma.
In the live chat I keep seeing Sirscoots reiterating that Puma is not signed, so can anyone tell me (I already posed this once in live chat and he missed it or ignored it), "What are the chances that Puma is picked up by another team?" It could all be a silly semantics game where it's basically a done deal, and the paperwork is already in transit.
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On July 22 2011 10:30 Twoinches wrote:
all the people saying " shame on wheat for ganging up on milkis" what did he bring to the table?
you all pointed out he is ONLY a translator. so him even being on the show boggles the mind.
It's the fact he's well connected to the Korean scene.
That and when you keep interrupting someone's thought. They are most likely going to forget half of what the said. Did you see Milkes go out of his way to interrupt Wheat's or A.G.'s thought? No.
They were being impulsive, whether they aware of it or not. My solution is to mute their mikes until the speaker is done their thought if they don't know how to carry out a regular conversation.
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If EG just went and talked to the coaches this thread would be titled "Puma joins EG" and we'd all be posting about how EG picked up a great player.
Just because the player isn't under contract shouldn't mean you don't have to talk with their coach or managers. Since there was no contract, even if coach Lee said "no" there's nothing that could of stopped Puma anyway so why would it have hurt to have contacted him? It would have saved them from all this bad PR.
What EG did is what I think they should of done if the player wasn't on team. A real free agent.
I think EG messed up by having Puma as the messenger. They should of contacted TSL management as soon as Puma was in the position to talk to his coach about it and handled it the same way they acquire any other player just like they did with Dimaga. It would have saved them so much trouble and Alex wouldn't have only got 2hrs of sleep!
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On July 22 2011 10:31 Raysalis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:27 esotericc wrote:On July 22 2011 10:17 tuho12345 wrote:
Puma didn't have any contract with TSL because that's how Asian culture work. They base on ethnic and trust, not a legal paper. You guys probably haven't seen Chinese ppl borrow millions dollars from others with just a single word right? And this is a good way to get screwed over in the real world where money and contracts actually mean something. Sick of the Korean ass kissing that goes on in this community. That is why they are going to 'do something about it' now so they wont get screw over in the future. I just feel that this will hurt any future foreign team trying to aquire Korean players.
They should do something, its called pay competitive salaries to their players with fair contracts. How is this a hard concept for Korea to understand. In a competitive business environment the best business model prevails.
I am under contract right now for web design and I can promise you I would jump at the first contract that was good enough to peak my interest and cover my penalty for leaving.
With no contract EG owed nothing to TSL and were free to discuss with Puma what they wanted.
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On July 22 2011 10:10 Barkziee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:08 travis wrote:
lol ppl here are so naturally competitive here everything needs to have a clear winner and loser. Did AG win? Did Milkis win? WHO WON DAMNIT!! As long as travis gets to spam another post out its all good! On topic, it was an invalid debate from the start because there was no fair respresentation and no impartial observer leading the debate.
lulz, my "spam" had about 20 people reply to it
im the only one that replies to yours
t.t so sorrrrrrry
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So to sum up the whole show: "Do you like burger?" "If you ask me if I like burger, you have to remember the underlining problem is.....blah blah blah blah blah................ So to answer the question. What was the question?"
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On July 22 2011 10:31 Earll wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 09:59 gurrpp wrote:On July 22 2011 09:57 zoLo wrote:On July 22 2011 09:55 saint_d wrote:On July 22 2011 09:53 StarStruck wrote:On July 22 2011 09:52 chipmonklord17 wrote:On July 22 2011 09:51 StutteR wrote:On July 22 2011 09:50 Corrosive wrote:
Milkis getting defensive for no reason. AG is dumping a bunch of bullshit on him. This is not on Milkis. EG needs to take care of its own PR problems. Don't blame the community. Don't blame a valued member of our community. Nothing is bullshit about what he's saying. Milkis has brought up multple sources to confirm the transfer and none of them were EG. It's EG's job to post a Press Statement for f sake. /facepalm It's EG's job to post a press statement about them maybe picking up a player? It is. If you follow news from other teams, they often post a press statement about acquiring a player. EG recently picked up floe, Choco Blanka, and Momochi and they even put out a statement, but for some reason they didn't for Puma. Because they haven't even signed him yet. Still, it doesn't really give them an excuse to get up in milkis' grill for not seeking a statement from eg. He didn't get up in milkis grill about not getting a statement, he said that like literally 15 times. "I am not blaming\accusing you of anything." he said that exact statement SO many times. he was merely saying that he COULD have contacted EG. and had milkis wanted a nonbiased post\thread about it, then he SHOULD have obviosuly gotten statements from both sides, not just the Coach lee side. He did not, which is fine too. But getting all up in EG's grill because they say "hey why didnt you try to get both sides of the story" is pretty meh. To me Milkis came off somewhat bad, trying to throw sort of petty jabs at alex and making what to me seemed like unrelated comments at times, whereas alex tried to explain the situation.
The argument can in ways be thrown back at him. To say where is the professionalism can be thrown back at EG. They knew what is happening, a companies image is no ones concern besides the companies PR section. The fact they were so unprofessional to not contact, have a statement ready, and let it go unchecked for 18? hours was their own fault.
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On July 22 2011 10:11 dacthehork wrote:
Fox News style debate, loving it. .
My thoughts exactly.
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On July 22 2011 10:30 esotericc wrote: The big thing is it doesn't matter, everyone here just seems to think it does because korea = amazing to them.
So? Losing a lot of fans and a lot of support in korea (such as practice partners) doesnt matter for Puma's carreer? Or EG being hated in korea?
You can't deny the fact that korea is still very important in the sc2 world.
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On July 22 2011 10:34 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:10 Barkziee wrote:On July 22 2011 10:08 travis wrote:
lol ppl here are so naturally competitive here everything needs to have a clear winner and loser. Did AG win? Did Milkis win? WHO WON DAMNIT!! As long as travis gets to spam another post out its all good! On topic, it was an invalid debate from the start because there was no fair respresentation and no impartial observer leading the debate. lulz, my "spam" had about 20 people reply to it im the only one that replies to yours t.t so sorrrrrrry
because all that matters is having people reply to you
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On July 22 2011 10:28 Nausea wrote:
So what i take away from this is:
- Puma will now get payed for doing what he loves. (somehow this is a bad thing)
- A korean mans feelings were hurt. (somehow this matters)
- EG is now rly evil, because they asked Puma if he would be interested in signing with them,
he then goes on to say that he will talk to his coach, all goes well with that and then it doesn't.
this is going to be really vulgar but here we go
+ Show Spoiler +you're a fucking cunt
i think black people look funny
women stay in the kitchen
aids is for fags
(i dont actually mean any of this)
look, now you're feelings are hurt, but who cares right?!?!
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moral of the story: sign your players to a contract.
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On July 22 2011 10:34 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:10 Barkziee wrote:On July 22 2011 10:08 travis wrote:
lol ppl here are so naturally competitive here everything needs to have a clear winner and loser. Did AG win? Did Milkis win? WHO WON DAMNIT!! As long as travis gets to spam another post out its all good! On topic, it was an invalid debate from the start because there was no fair respresentation and no impartial observer leading the debate. lulz, my "spam" had about 20 people reply to it im the only one that replies to yours t.t so sorrrrrrry
You're ruining eSports travis.
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On July 22 2011 10:32 VillageBC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 10:26 Mordiford wrote:On July 22 2011 10:24 VillageBC wrote:On July 22 2011 10:18 shavi wrote:
Again, I don't have a problem with EG acquiring a player from any team. I just find it rather disrespectful to not even talk to the team regarding a player you're talking to. Obviously it was pretty dumb not to have him contracted (but it's not like that would have mattered, EG would have still gotten him I'm assuming), but the fact that they didn't even try to contact TSL. Am I the only one who finds it disrespectful and disgusting to approach the team of an unsigned player asking for permission to talk to them? Puma is not TSL property as much as people want to believe it. What the fuck...? It's not about him being property, he's still a living asset, someone that they've invested in and built upon. I would be fucking pissed right off if a recruiter went to my company and said. 'Hey, we want this guy. So we're going to talk to him' without going through me first. It presents a risk to my career and the perceptions of my company.
Or how about, talking to the player and then getting in touch with the manager, it's not either/or, you can do both. Also, how does it present a risk to Puma's career in this case, or any player's career if a team says, "Hey, we want that player of yours". If anything, it'd make that team more conscious of how in-demand you are and work harder to keep you if they could.
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United States7481 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:31 Earll wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 09:59 gurrpp wrote:On July 22 2011 09:57 zoLo wrote:On July 22 2011 09:55 saint_d wrote:On July 22 2011 09:53 StarStruck wrote:On July 22 2011 09:52 chipmonklord17 wrote:On July 22 2011 09:51 StutteR wrote:On July 22 2011 09:50 Corrosive wrote:
Milkis getting defensive for no reason. AG is dumping a bunch of bullshit on him. This is not on Milkis. EG needs to take care of its own PR problems. Don't blame the community. Don't blame a valued member of our community. Nothing is bullshit about what he's saying. Milkis has brought up multple sources to confirm the transfer and none of them were EG. It's EG's job to post a Press Statement for f sake. /facepalm It's EG's job to post a press statement about them maybe picking up a player? It is. If you follow news from other teams, they often post a press statement about acquiring a player. EG recently picked up floe, Choco Blanka, and Momochi and they even put out a statement, but for some reason they didn't for Puma. Because they haven't even signed him yet. Still, it doesn't really give them an excuse to get up in milkis' grill for not seeking a statement from eg. He didn't get up in milkis grill about not getting a statement, he said that like literally 15 times. "I am not blaming\accusing you of anything." he said that exact statement SO many times. he was merely saying that he COULD have contacted EG. and had milkis wanted a nonbiased post\thread about it, then he SHOULD have obviosuly gotten statements from both sides, not just the Coach lee side. He did not, which is fine too. But getting all up in EG's grill because they say "hey why didnt you try to get both sides of the story" is pretty meh. To me Milkis came off somewhat bad, trying to throw sort of petty jabs at alex and making what to me seemed like unrelated comments at times, whereas alex tried to explain the situation.
so it's milkis's fault that eg refused to respond? milkis reached out to scoots, waxangel reached out to coach lee, only one of them responded. that's not milkis's fault, and alex (despite his "i'm not a racist but i hate black people"-equivalent statements) made it seem like it was.
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I'm not sure EG could have done anything to help this after the story was posted. People on here have been hating on EG well before this and any statement/thread from them would probably be decried as more lies by those people wouldn't it? Once the original story is posted people make up their minds and it's very very difficult to change them once that happens.
It seems insulting to me to hear that most Korean teams are being run this way when they have pioneered all of the measures to prevent this situation occurring with the BW scene. I'm curious how widespread the TSL attitude is in Korea or if they were just under very poor management? I have a hard time believing IM or OGS would be so cavalier with their relationship with their team members.
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EPT
