EPTAG's shifting the blame by accusing the community of negligence is a farce. I felt personally attacked.
Puma leaves TSL for EG - Page 297
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ptbl
United States6074 Posts
AG's shifting the blame by accusing the community of negligence is a farce. I felt personally attacked. | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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Daedra
United States268 Posts
Milkis also didn't do anything wrong, it is his job to translate, not write a formal article. But I can see where EG is coming from, a huge thread on this issue and a lot of it hate on EG when the facts weren't known Good luck to TSL, EG, and Puma in the future! | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:18 dacthehork wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=201086 TSL had sponsored players that they did pay. from what i heard, they said puma wasn't paid. so i guess only select players were being paid? whereas foreign team, everyone is paid (i hope), EG pays all their players at least. what im saying is, they dont get paid enough, i dont assume to know the reason, but i think exposure might be a good start cause u dont see SC2 players live other than GSL events mostly. i dunno the streaming community in korea, i do know some have started to stream on justin.tv and that creates exposure for sure and the foreign scene have embraced streaming without a doubt. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:25 sandyph wrote: so SC:BW have a slave type of contract and people get upset about it and for SC2 try to do it more 'casually' and as a result get their player poached ? If anything good job to EG for initiating the founding of Kespa 2.0 lmao I couldn't help, but laugh. KeSPA is coming regardless. | ||
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Takezou
United States320 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:26 pdd wrote: Ultimately this comes down to a conflict between 2 things: Business vs Culture Korean e-sports mentality vs International esports mentality. Both sides made mistakes but I can't say there's anyone who's really at fault here. What the two sides need to do is adapt to this experience. EG (and other foreign teams) to be more culturally sensitive and TSL (and other Korean teams) to be more competitive in terms of incentives and sponsorships. IMO the biggest loser here is ultimately Puma, who no doubt has lost a lot of fans and his practice partners in Korea due this drama. I really hope that is not the case. At least on TL it seems (just from what i can see) that people are not blaming him in anyway. Hopefully, it doesn't do him any harm. | ||
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Lafie
Finland36 Posts
Yeah, off-topic I know  | ||
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tenacity
1587 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:21 Badboyrune wrote: So let me see if I get this straight since I haven't been following it very closely. Coach Lee (or someone from TSL) made an official statement regarding the Puma issue Milkis translated the official response and posted it in a thread on TL EG releases no official information at all EG blames Milkis for posting a biased news article If I understood this right lets imagine that TSL was a foreign team and had released their official statement in english on their website. Milkis, or anyone else, then posted this statement in a thread on tl. Would that still be them releasing a biased article? I doubt if that was the case EG would be blaming the poster of the thread since he's just highlighting information that was already available to all. The reason they're going after Milkis now is because he made information that was already available to the public understandable for everyone. I think that's quite low to be honest. That is a very good point. | ||
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Marsupian
Netherlands455 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:22 koreasilver wrote: lol, if prefacing an attack with a "not to accuse you but..." or a "no offense but..." makes the attack a non-attack, then every racist that prefaces their diatribe with a "not to be racist but..." isn't a racist. It's nonsense. I think Alex just chose the wrong words. What he wanted to achieve (and I agree with him on the matter) is to have people try to contact the parties involved before releasing this kind of information. I don't think people should be blamed when they don't but it would be nice if it would become common for people around here to try and contact the parties involved before release (when possible). Alex should have just asked Milkis to do this next time something like this happens as now it sounded like an accusation (which I think wasn't intentional). Milkis reacted really defensively and rather aggressive. He could just agree with Alex that it would have probably been a good move to contact him but just didn't think about the option or didn't know how to contact him. There is nothing wrong with that and I think it's in the best interest of this site and the whole community if we tried to approach all involved parties before something like this is posted (although I don't think it should be a requirement, just something that would be good to do). Edit: Also Alex didn't post a response afterwards (which he agrees was wrong) so he wasn't clean as well but that doesn't mean it's not a good thing to do before posting. | ||
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BoxersGosuGarden
Philippines155 Posts
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RaLakedaimon
United States1564 Posts
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Nausea
Sweden807 Posts
- Puma will now get payed for doing what he loves. (somehow this is a bad thing) - A korean mans feelings were hurt. (somehow this matters) - EG is now rly evil, because they asked Puma if he would be interested in signing with them, he then goes on to say that he will talk to his coach, all goes well with that and then it doesn't. | ||
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Volkov
United States71 Posts
It will be better for players. The more times teams go to PLAYERS to recruit them, instead of buying them like commodities from other - the better for the players. Yes this will mean that richer teams will give better offers and get better players. But this is good for the players. As far as "but it's against some cultural issue" - that's completely fine. If something is against a some aspect of the culture, but is better for the players - it is a good thing. | ||
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Mioraka
Canada1353 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:18 poorbeggarman wrote: I disagree that he was "attacking" Milkis. AG clearly stated that his statement regarding the journalism thing was not accusatory. However, i don't think the main problem is with the whole reporting journalism thing, but the gullibility of some in the TL community, who make spontaneous decisions regarding an issue before hearing both sides of the story. LOL he explained how his questions weren't accusatory the same way a man explains he doesn't mean to hurt you when he thrusts a broadsword into your asshole. | ||
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sisternx
Sweden61 Posts
 One thing surprising for me is that for as professional korea team are, I was very surprised players like puma does not even get paid a salary. Living off only prize money is very volatile and so i hope we can turn this negative into positive and top players can get salary in which to make a decent living. | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:28 Takezou wrote: I really hope that is not the case. At least on TL it seems (just from what i can see) that people are not blaming him in anyway. Hopefully, it doesn't do him any harm. I understand that the Korean netizens are extremely disappointed in him. | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:14 shavi wrote: I think most of the backlash isn't from the money involved it's that EG went and didn't respect the korean culture, and didn't even contact the team that they were trying to get a player from. I don't think anyone is mad that PuMa left because he was offered salary, but the way EG handled getting him to leave TSL and eventually contract him. Agreed. A lot of talk is about why but it should be about how. Now I don't really blame EG or anything, can't really do much but I understand why people are mad and it's agreeable that it could have been done a better way. Also while I agree that salary is important "but" team houses shouldn't be discredited either. HuK is the way he is the day largely due to his practice in the oGs house. This is simply a statement that Puma's time at TSL shouldn't be discredited or devalued. Sure it didn't pay $$$ directly but it did provide things for him (the practice environment needed to further his skills). Now the point is that TSL being mad is understandable since they did lose someone they sort of raised [as a player at least] unexpectly to someone else. Of course anyone (if not under contract) is free to go where ever they want but it's common courtesy (at least in South Korea) to approach the team and/or couch first before agreeing/disagreeing to leaving. Now this is just grounds and explanation to where the whole moral issue lies. Realistically would EG be able to obtain Puma if they asked TSL or the coach first? Maybe (depends if the team will ask Puma) but its definitely less of a chance than asking Puma directly. So EG did make a right choice business wise to ask Puma before TSL. | ||
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:26 poorbeggarman wrote: Again: I disagree that he was "attacking" Milkis. AG clearly stated that his statement regarding the journalism thing was not accusatory.-Meaning, he wasn't blaming Milkis for anything. He just said that, there needs to be some kind of standard to translations of official posts from korea, like hearing both sides of the story, since it may affect gaming organizations, players, etc. I can say that my statement is not meant to undermine AG although it frankly is (and even I have to admit that). It's just a thinly veiled accusation. There were a lot of ways AG could have said it. He could have said it the way that you said it, questioning TL's policy, etc. But he chose to specifically hurl the question at Milkis, who's not a staff member on TL (I think). | ||
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dacthehork
United States2000 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:27 zev318 wrote: from what i heard, they said puma wasn't paid. so i guess only select players were being paid? whereas foreign team, everyone is paid (i hope), EG pays all their players at least. what im saying is, they dont get paid enough, i dont assume to know the reason, but i think exposure might be a good start cause u dont see SC2 players live other than GSL events mostly. i dunno the streaming community in korea, i do know some have started to stream on justin.tv and that creates exposure for sure and the foreign scene have embraced streaming without a doubt. They fed, housed, and trained him for a long time. That's more support than EG gives most of their players, especially BW ones who only got product I heard. Fact is that is money/time/effort. They felt they didnt need a contract and none of the teams in korea did. Now that will become the standard and korea will be more closed off / distrustful of sending players overseas if EG is going to make them huge offers if they do well. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
Precisely. This is a thread. Not a news article. If you would like something posted then please do so. No one is stopping you. | ||
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