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NexUmbra
Scotland3776 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:17 Dingobloo wrote: He left Millenium to join TL, or are our attention spans so short... Millenium didn't give HuK food. Millenium didn't give HuK housing. Millenium didn't give HuK very very good practice conditions. | ||
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VillageBC
322 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:18 shavi wrote: Again, I don't have a problem with EG acquiring a player from any team. I just find it rather disrespectful to not even talk to the team regarding a player you're talking to. Obviously it was pretty dumb not to have him contracted (but it's not like that would have mattered, EG would have still gotten him I'm assuming), but the fact that they didn't even try to contact TSL. Am I the only one who finds it disrespectful and disgusting to approach the team of an unsigned player asking for permission to talk to them? Puma is not TSL property as much as people want to believe it. | ||
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Tegin
United States840 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:13 TWIX_Heaven wrote: I really do not see the problem. You guys are seriously going nuts. 1. Puma was not on a contract 2. Puma made the decision to go 3. Going around the team is not even shady as there where no contract - Puma can do as he wants 4. Puma will properly get paid now regardless of prizes - which is good. 5. Neither EG nor Puma apparently has no obligations towards TSL - besides moral ones. So why cant we be happy for Puma and EG? I mean, it sounds like good old butt-hurt to me, and frankly that is just as childish and selfish as anything else. Just my 2c This is exactly how I see it. Not sure why everyone is so mad over this. | ||
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TOCHMY
Sweden1692 Posts
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sandyph
Indonesia1640 Posts
"It's not just TSL, but most Starcraft II teams right now run on trust and faith instead of contracts. Because of many similar occurances [to Puma's case], we plan to make contracts mandatory. Puma was with us for ten months, and where we provided him and his teammates with a good practice environment, food, etc, and developed him as a player. The team didn't take any of the prize money a player earned, all of it went to the player. Unfortunately, Puma wished to join EG so we released him. To acquire a player, contacting the original team regarding a transfer is a natural courtesy and the way things should be done. That is why I am very angry, and why it is huge topic in Korea right now. The Korean SC II association is preparing some measures, and I believe something similar won't happen again. EG claims that Puma approached them first regarding joining their team, but this is not true. As I know it, EG's owner contacted Puma first. Not only Puma, but other Korean players." so SC:BW have a slave type of contract and people get upset about it and for SC2 try to do it more 'casually' and as a result get their player poached ? If anything good job to EG for initiating the founding of Kespa 2.0 | ||
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dacthehork
United States2000 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:22 InvalidID wrote: How is it unethical to offer someone more money for doing a job, let alone someone who was not even being paid? He had just been paid 50,000 dollars btw. Before EG from the training/work TSL put in making him better. The fact is the unethical part came in when TSL had been training him, feeding him, and housing him for 10 months. It's fair to say that hes a product of that environment and they did expect him to stay with them and work together. TSL has been a pretty upstanding team and the first in korea with salaries. The fact they put that effort/time/money into a player and when he first gets exposure he leaves is pretty underhanded. It's overall good for Puma but it could have been handled better and with more cooperation with TSL instead of underhandedly. Basically it was all honor code in Korea and now it will go to tight contracts thanks to this. Trust me when I say koreans know how to write contracts. | ||
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Blitz Beat
United States178 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:23 koreasilver wrote: Milkis' translation wasn't bad at all, and this is where AG just talked shit out of his ass. But Milkis' tweets outside of his translations were kinda bad, imo. tweets are personal opinions or facts that he shares with others. no one here thinks of him as a professional journalist, just someone who can give us some perspective. what did milkis do wrong when all he did was give us a little bit more insight? he has no obligation to "present both sides" on his twitter. just his own and whatever else he c hooses. | ||
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IcedBacon
Canada906 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:21 h3nG wrote: Strange how all this drama has made me dislike EG and DJWheat...I use to like the DJ too. Yep, they all lost a lot of fans this day. | ||
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poorbeggarman
139 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:20 pdd wrote: Then wouldn't it be EG's responsibility to quell the shitstorm? Or PlayXP/TIS/TSL's fault for somewhat inaccurate reports? Why put the blame on Milkis? Again: I disagree that he was "attacking" Milkis. AG clearly said that his statement regarding the journalism thing was not accusatory.-Meaning, he wasn't blaming Milkis for anything. He just said that, there needs to be some kind of standard to translations of official posts from korea, like hearing both sides of the story, since it may affect gaming organizations, players, etc. | ||
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farvacola
United States18866 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:20 Senx wrote: So you mean EG doesn't read TL and can't PM milkis on twitter or here? Or just make a statement on their own? I'm really confused. Because I know they do read and post here. With obviously controversial news like this, a preemptive release of any information, even if in the mundane form a new topic on TL, is simply underhanded, in every sense of the word. Communication, even when in the form of a forum post or a twitter, is made strategic and meaningful given its time, place, and context, and there are ramifications as such. The immediate and unquestioning release of a translated news snippet from Korea without its affected parties being aware is not an honorable thing to do, especially in a case where cultural misunderstanding is likely to take place. | ||
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
Business vs Culture Korean e-sports mentality vs International esports mentality. Both sides made mistakes but I can't say there's anyone who's really at fault here. What the two sides need to do is adapt to this experience. EG (and other foreign teams) to be more culturally sensitive and TSL (and other Korean teams) to be more competitive in terms of incentives and sponsorships. IMO the biggest loser here is ultimately Puma, who no doubt has lost a lot of fans and his practice partners in Korea due this drama. | ||
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NexUmbra
Scotland3776 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:20 DigitalisDestructi wrote: Please remember that the original issue of the debate is the fact that EG never contact TSL management; hence, Coach Lee is mad about the lack of respect. Unfortunately, this whole thing has gotten so off-tangent that no one's on the same page anymore. EDIT: Also, it's a not fair debate when you've got a director of EG against a community member who happens to know Korean. He says they could never contact TSL. He says that he had a translator fully translating replies posted on PlayXP He could have found SOME way to get in touch with Lee... | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:24 VillageBC wrote: Am I the only one who finds it disrespectful and disgusting to approach the team of an unsigned player asking for permission to talk to them? Puma is not TSL property as much as people want to believe it. What the fuck...? It's not about him being property, he's still a living asset, someone that they've invested in and built upon. | ||
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:49 dano101 wrote: And now AG starts to argue that EG is the victim now lol. sad Standard for EG | ||
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Sky0
United States214 Posts
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DizzyDrone
Netherlands629 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:18 Twoinches wrote: No, Why does the foreign scene have to bend over backwards for Korean culture at every turn, when do they do some bending? anywhere else a free agent is a free agent. and he wasnt "poached" or harrassed they had a nice conversation and he wanted to leave tsl (like so many other members have already). If they had such a issue with it they would have offered him a deal as well to counter it. Because they are signing a KOREAN player who's on a KOREAN team who mostly plays in KOREA and has a lot of KOREAN fans. Yes, I agree they didn't NEED to "bend over backwards", but you can't be surprised at the response they are getting when they don't. | ||
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eggs
1011 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:25 TOCHMY wrote: I like how "Puma leaving TSL" thread went to "WoC LR thread" to "WoC Aftermath discussion" thread :oo to be fair, it's only because EG chose to respond to the issue on WoC rather than posting on TL. the only way for this discussion to continue fairly would be to discuss the details given to us through WoC. | ||
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Delinius
United States324 Posts
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esotericc
449 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:17 tuho12345 wrote: Puma didn't have any contract with TSL because that's how Asian culture work. They base on ethnic and trust, not a legal paper. You guys probably haven't seen Chinese ppl borrow millions dollars from others with just a single word right? And this is a good way to get screwed over in the real world where money and contracts actually mean something. Sick of the Korean ass kissing that goes on in this community. | ||
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shavi
United States127 Posts
On July 22 2011 10:24 VillageBC wrote: Am I the only one who finds it disrespectful and disgusting to approach the team of an unsigned player asking for permission to talk to them? Puma is not TSL property as much as people want to believe it. I'm not saying they don't talk to him [Puma] first to see if he's even interested. But I'm assuming this wasn't an overnight thing and I feel that EG could have tried to reach out to TSL at some point to tell them they're looking to sign one of their players. Signed or unsigned, he's been giving good practice conditions, food, and housing for 10 months and been helped to grow into the player he is. I'm not saying they have to ask permission to take him but at least reaching out and letting them know what's going on. :s | ||
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