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Ok, I'll just state my opinion on this issue.
Quoted from the Blizzard support website:
"A 'hack' or 'third party' program is any program made and distributed by someone other than Blizzard Entertainment that is used to modify, cheat, or alter Blizzard Entertainment games."
Source
As far as I see this, it would be considered a hack. Since you use Windows (which would be the thirdparty program), in order to alter the game client (by getting a visual overlay "on top of" the game).
I won't go into the discussion of this being similar to an egg-watch or someone standing over your shoulder with a watch. Since those scenarios obviously does not alter the original client. Let's say you would have the same done on a seperate monitor, then I would say it is not considered a hack. Since you don't put the overlay on top of the "game screen", thus you don't alter the game.
I see how this sometimes would get an advantage over other players. For example, when having your screen somewhere else than your base. A normal player needs to sometimes switch view in order to check whether or not I can inject larva (I'm a Z player :D), or atleast shuffle through the hotkeys to check up on the mana of my Queens. With this overlay, I will not need to do that, thus giving me the advantage of exacly knowing when I need to go back to inject. Thus minimizing the time I won't be able to micro my units.
I don't know how Blizzard would be able to detect this, nor do I know if they exactly see this as a violation of their TOS. But the way I interpret it (my own personal opinion), it still would be considered a hack, even if it would only give a very slight advantage to the "hacker".
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On July 14 2011 22:54 Painfck wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 19:37 Handfoot wrote:
I'm curious why it needs to ping 127.0.0.1. 127.0.0.1 is just your own network card. its not like its pinging some one that wants to see your ip adress in order to hack you. however i dont know why either because i havent seen the script my self.  edit: he uses it as a timer.
Yup its a timer, cant do 1 second though but its cheap and nasty and works most of the time.
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Russian Federation88 Posts
It's funny to see that such simple thing considered by someones as "cheat".
Actually I've made a tool with much more overlays / sounds. After first wave people finally stopped to yell "cheat".
Please, read EULA first and only then make decision.
+1 for you zergrushkekeke
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On July 14 2011 23:11 Maekchu wrote:Ok, I'll just state my opinion on this issue. Quoted from the Blizzard support website: "A 'hack' or 'third party' program is any program made and distributed by someone other than Blizzard Entertainment that is used to modify, cheat, or alter Blizzard Entertainment games." SourceAs far as I see this, it would be considered a hack. Since you use Windows (which would be the thirdparty program), in order to alter the game client (by getting a visual overlay "on top of" the game).I won't go into the discussion of this being similar to an egg-watch or someone standing over your shoulder with a watch. Since those scenarios obviously does not alter the original client. Let's say you would have the same done on a seperate monitor, then I would say it is not considered a hack. Since you don't put the overlay on top of the "game screen", thus you don't alter the game. I see how this sometimes would get an advantage over other players. For example, when having your screen somewhere else than your base. A normal player needs to sometimes switch view in order to check whether or not I can inject larva (I'm a Z player :D), or atleast shuffle through the hotkeys to check up on the mana of my Queens. With this overlay, I will not need to do that, thus giving me the advantage of exacly knowing when I need to go back to inject. Thus minimizing the time I won't be able to micro my units. I don't know how Blizzard would be able to detect this, nor do I know if they exactly see this as a violation of their TOS. But the way I interpret it (my own personal opinion), it still would be considered a hack, even if it would only give a very slight advantage to the "hacker".
A visual overlay is NOT altering the game client, not even a little bit.
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On July 14 2011 23:23 ru.meta wrote:It's funny to see that such simple thing considered by someones as "cheat". Actually I've made a tool with much more overlays / sounds. After first wave people finally stopped to yell "cheat". Please, read EULA first and only then make decision. +1 for you zergrushkekeke
Use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game experience, including without limitation, mods that violate the terms of this License Agreement or the Terms of Use;
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So I read through the EULA, and really it's just a matter of interpretation.
"Use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game experience, including without limitation, mods that violate the terms of this License Agreement or the Terms of Use; "
With this in mind, I would definitely say you alter the "game experience".
But there will always be someone who interprets it differently. Like this guy:
On July 14 2011 23:27 Charger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 23:11 Maekchu wrote:Ok, I'll just state my opinion on this issue. Quoted from the Blizzard support website: "A 'hack' or 'third party' program is any program made and distributed by someone other than Blizzard Entertainment that is used to modify, cheat, or alter Blizzard Entertainment games." SourceAs far as I see this, it would be considered a hack. Since you use Windows (which would be the thirdparty program), in order to alter the game client (by getting a visual overlay "on top of" the game).I won't go into the discussion of this being similar to an egg-watch or someone standing over your shoulder with a watch. Since those scenarios obviously does not alter the original client. Let's say you would have the same done on a seperate monitor, then I would say it is not considered a hack. Since you don't put the overlay on top of the "game screen", thus you don't alter the game. I see how this sometimes would get an advantage over other players. For example, when having your screen somewhere else than your base. A normal player needs to sometimes switch view in order to check whether or not I can inject larva (I'm a Z player :D), or atleast shuffle through the hotkeys to check up on the mana of my Queens. With this overlay, I will not need to do that, thus giving me the advantage of exacly knowing when I need to go back to inject. Thus minimizing the time I won't be able to micro my units. I don't know how Blizzard would be able to detect this, nor do I know if they exactly see this as a violation of their TOS. But the way I interpret it (my own personal opinion), it still would be considered a hack, even if it would only give a very slight advantage to the "hacker". A visual overlay is NOT altering the game client, not even a little bit.
Altering a game doesn't necessarily mean altering the "coding" of the game. With the term "experience" used in the EULA, just strengthens the idea that Blizzard might classify this as cheating.
Anyway, I just want to put a suggestion for the OP. I think it's a good idea, to maybe add that users should use this on own risk. It seems it all comes down to how you interpret what Blizzard write and people should just be aware that if Blizzard sees this as a hack and is able to detect it, they might get suspended from the game.
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This is like 100% cheating.
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Ok, I've had a think about this and all things considered the best way forward would be to have this kind of functionality (and more) incorporated in to a custom map via the map editor.
The reasons I think this are:
- this will be fully transparent, i.e. whoever you play agianst will know that you are using it (this will encourage it being used as a practice tool)
- this would never leech into competitve play, which would also prevent it becoming a crutch as players would venture into ladder play away from it as well
- this will have absolutley no effect on TOS as customs created via the map editor are openly encouraged
- it's functionality could be improved massively: the timer could be rest, finely tuned to different situations, have build orders attached to it etc list is endless
I am very happy with Eleaven's point about this being a viable and justified practice tool. I also think that having this in a custom map completely dispells the equally justified issues raised by other memebers of the community.
I know jack shit about the SC2 map editor but from what I've seen creating such a functionality in a custom map would be easy peasey.
I'd urge that if anyone, zergrushkekeke or otherwise, was really interested in this as a practice tool (which is its only justifiable application) then they should create it in the map editor. Then everyone will be happy.
:D
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On July 14 2011 23:27 Charger wrote:
A visual overlay is NOT altering the game client, not even a little bit.
No matter how you slice and dice it, this falls into a morally grey area. The spirit of the law is that you shouldn't get an unfair advantage. Let's say we could have a visual overlay that spots dropships and highlights them in red as they fly by your overlords (or highlights the blur of DTs in red). Well, technically, it's not doing anything that you couldn't see with your own eyes, but I think that clearly falls into an "unfair advantage."
That being said, I think using this program will definitely help you internalize your timings better (inject larva, mules, etc). I don't see this as a bad thing and it makes you a better player. I think the intent of the user here goes a long way. If you are using it temporarily to help you internalize your timings in matches that are not of significance, that seems fine. If you plan on using it as a permanent fixture to your SC playing in order to get a higher ladder rank, that does not seem fine.
It's like having matches. Using them to light your cigarettes is fine, setting fire to homes is not, but the matches themselves are not evil.
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This is against the rules, as it is allowing an external program/script giving unfair advantage to the user. Plus over dependence on this would ruin your game.
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Hmm, even if it's against ToS, it's not affecting how the game runs in anyway so it's not like it can be detected.
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On July 14 2011 23:38 Maekchu wrote:So I read through the EULA, and really it's just a matter of interpretation. "Use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game experience, including without limitation, mods that violate the terms of this License Agreement or the Terms of Use; " With this in mind, I would definitely say you alter the "game experience". But there will always be someone who interprets it differently. Like this guy: Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 23:27 Charger wrote:On July 14 2011 23:11 Maekchu wrote:Ok, I'll just state my opinion on this issue. Quoted from the Blizzard support website: "A 'hack' or 'third party' program is any program made and distributed by someone other than Blizzard Entertainment that is used to modify, cheat, or alter Blizzard Entertainment games." SourceAs far as I see this, it would be considered a hack. Since you use Windows (which would be the thirdparty program), in order to alter the game client (by getting a visual overlay "on top of" the game).I won't go into the discussion of this being similar to an egg-watch or someone standing over your shoulder with a watch. Since those scenarios obviously does not alter the original client. Let's say you would have the same done on a seperate monitor, then I would say it is not considered a hack. Since you don't put the overlay on top of the "game screen", thus you don't alter the game. I see how this sometimes would get an advantage over other players. For example, when having your screen somewhere else than your base. A normal player needs to sometimes switch view in order to check whether or not I can inject larva (I'm a Z player :D), or atleast shuffle through the hotkeys to check up on the mana of my Queens. With this overlay, I will not need to do that, thus giving me the advantage of exacly knowing when I need to go back to inject. Thus minimizing the time I won't be able to micro my units. I don't know how Blizzard would be able to detect this, nor do I know if they exactly see this as a violation of their TOS. But the way I interpret it (my own personal opinion), it still would be considered a hack, even if it would only give a very slight advantage to the "hacker". A visual overlay is NOT altering the game client, not even a little bit. Altering a game doesn't necessarily mean altering the "coding" of the game. With the term "experience" used in the EULA, just strengthens the idea that Blizzard might classify this cheat. Anyway, I just want to put a suggestion for the OP. I think it's a good idea, to maybe add that users should use this on own risk. It seems it all comes down to how you interpret what Blizzard write and people should just be aware that if Blizzard sees this as a hack and is able to detect it, they might get suspended from the game.
Indeed it does alter the game experience which is likely against the TOS, but altering the game client is specifically talking about altering game specific code in some way - which is what I was correcting because this doesn't do that at all. I don't mind someone trying to claim its hack based on it altering the 'experience', because it probably is. But that is so vague it's still hard to say. A physical timer set to go off every x seconds is definitely altering the 'experience' as well.
However if I were using it, there is absolutely no possible legal way for Blizzard to know whether I am using this or not.
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On July 14 2011 23:41 Deleuze wrote:
Ok, I've had a think about this and all things considered the best way forward would be to have this kind of functionality (and more) incorporated in to a custom map via the map editor.
:D
I support this from Deleuze.
If you wish this to be just a training tool. Try to incorporate it into a custom map so people will be able to train their feel of when to inject, mule, etc etc.
In this way, just as stated. There will be no issues regarding the EULA.
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On July 14 2011 19:09 Elefanto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 19:05 NicoLoco wrote:
I think I would classify this as cheating, or at least enabling oneself an advantage that your similarly skilled opposition doesn't have.
Edit:
I think it would be sort of OK if it popped up on a seperate monitor or on your mobile phone or something like that, but having it overlay the game is just wrong. If the game was supposed to remind you to inject and build SCVs you would have the option to do so. Some of the skill in this game comes down to being able to remember to do everything you are supposed to do. SC2 reminds you to inject. I don't support it, but at a certain level it won't help you anymore, because there it's not so much a thing of being able to remind, it's about being able to mechanically do it.
Hold on... Where is this SC2 reminds you to inject? All I see is a larvae has spawned, which is the same as chronoboost has expired and mule has expired. Please...
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lol Painfuck. This program is not designed to give you an advantage, it's designed to give you an advantage in learning.
Wow.
On July 14 2011 19:41 Selkie wrote:
Blizzard's already banned people for using a speaking overlay- this will definitely get people banned.
This sums it up. Don't make overlays if you like your account unbanned.
Oh and Murdock, right click repair on an scv. The future is today!
Edit to clarify: It's not a matter of whether you think it's cheating or not. Blizzard does.
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On July 14 2011 23:47 Charger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 23:38 Maekchu wrote:So I read through the EULA, and really it's just a matter of interpretation. "Use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game experience, including without limitation, mods that violate the terms of this License Agreement or the Terms of Use; " With this in mind, I would definitely say you alter the "game experience". But there will always be someone who interprets it differently. Like this guy: On July 14 2011 23:27 Charger wrote:On July 14 2011 23:11 Maekchu wrote:Ok, I'll just state my opinion on this issue. Quoted from the Blizzard support website: "A 'hack' or 'third party' program is any program made and distributed by someone other than Blizzard Entertainment that is used to modify, cheat, or alter Blizzard Entertainment games." SourceAs far as I see this, it would be considered a hack. Since you use Windows (which would be the thirdparty program), in order to alter the game client (by getting a visual overlay "on top of" the game).I won't go into the discussion of this being similar to an egg-watch or someone standing over your shoulder with a watch. Since those scenarios obviously does not alter the original client. Let's say you would have the same done on a seperate monitor, then I would say it is not considered a hack. Since you don't put the overlay on top of the "game screen", thus you don't alter the game. I see how this sometimes would get an advantage over other players. For example, when having your screen somewhere else than your base. A normal player needs to sometimes switch view in order to check whether or not I can inject larva (I'm a Z player :D), or atleast shuffle through the hotkeys to check up on the mana of my Queens. With this overlay, I will not need to do that, thus giving me the advantage of exacly knowing when I need to go back to inject. Thus minimizing the time I won't be able to micro my units. I don't know how Blizzard would be able to detect this, nor do I know if they exactly see this as a violation of their TOS. But the way I interpret it (my own personal opinion), it still would be considered a hack, even if it would only give a very slight advantage to the "hacker". A visual overlay is NOT altering the game client, not even a little bit. Altering a game doesn't necessarily mean altering the "coding" of the game. With the term "experience" used in the EULA, just strengthens the idea that Blizzard might classify this cheat. Anyway, I just want to put a suggestion for the OP. I think it's a good idea, to maybe add that users should use this on own risk. It seems it all comes down to how you interpret what Blizzard write and people should just be aware that if Blizzard sees this as a hack and is able to detect it, they might get suspended from the game. Indeed it does alter the game experience which is likely against the TOS, but altering the game client is specifically talking about altering game specific code in some way - which is what I was correcting because this doesn't do that at all. I don't mind someone trying to claim its hack based on it altering the 'experience', because it probably is. But that is so vague it's still hard to say. A timer set to go off every x seconds is definitely altering the 'experience' as well. However if I were using it, there is absolutely no possible legal way for Blizzard to know whether I am using this or not.
Jep, sorry. Just used the wrong words in my first post :D But glad we got that cleared.
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On July 14 2011 23:50 leo23 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 19:09 Elefanto wrote:On July 14 2011 19:05 NicoLoco wrote:
I think I would classify this as cheating, or at least enabling oneself an advantage that your similarly skilled opposition doesn't have.
Edit:
I think it would be sort of OK if it popped up on a seperate monitor or on your mobile phone or something like that, but having it overlay the game is just wrong. If the game was supposed to remind you to inject and build SCVs you would have the option to do so. Some of the skill in this game comes down to being able to remember to do everything you are supposed to do. SC2 reminds you to inject. I don't support it, but at a certain level it won't help you anymore, because there it's not so much a thing of being able to remind, it's about being able to mechanically do it. Hold on... Where is this SC2 reminds you to inject? All I see is a larvae has spawned, which is the same as chronoboost has expired and mule has expired. Please...
You can turn it on in the options. It will show as a small icon and text in the upper left corner, Just like when it tells you buildings, units or upgrades have finished.
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Well, I think it's cheating, but it's such a morally gray area. Really, it's not like these guys are murdering puppies to use their blood to power their drophacks. It's a overlay that flashes over his command groups, if I read the OP properly. Time to back away with the pitchforks guys.
Though I really don't understand the people who say "What does it matter if it's cheating, Blizzard can't detect it anyway." There's a difference between "If the ref didn't see it, it didn't happen" and "If the ref didn't see it, it's morally okay."
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Anytime I hear bat file I get excited. I love the idea for a trainer, buts it is rather crude.
I might use this to set up a reminder for myself to look at the mini map and my food.
I don't understand all the cheat comments. This is in no way interacting with the game. It changes the game experience in the same way that playing your own music or alt+tab does. Alt+tab to look at your build order is not going to get you banned by Bliz, and neither is this.
Don't hate on the training techniques. Make better use of your time spent training use important to some of us.
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EPT
