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On July 14 2011 19:51 Eleaven wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 19:45 mdb wrote:
Everything that in one or another way helps you ingame is and is not develpoed by Blizzard is 100% cheating. There is a reason why on chess tournaments the players dont bring their opening books with them. I doubt he's going to be using this at mlg. Don't worry about it. Every time i look at my watch it reminds me to scout.. should i remove it? :S bit of a cheat right? :S
This is a file you execute that pops a visible notification on your screen that reminds you to do something that you otherwise might have forgotten.
Please don't compare it to "looking at your watch".
MLG or ladder, it makes no difference. My point is that this can be a tool for people who want to practice their timings and need a reminder, however I sincerely think it shouldn't be used on ladder or in any other competitive scenario.
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On July 14 2011 19:54 NicoLoco wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 19:51 Eleaven wrote:On July 14 2011 19:45 mdb wrote:
Everything that in one or another way helps you ingame is and is not develpoed by Blizzard is 100% cheating. There is a reason why on chess tournaments the players dont bring their opening books with them. I doubt he's going to be using this at mlg. Don't worry about it. Every time i look at my watch it reminds me to scout.. should i remove it? :S bit of a cheat right? :S This is a file you execute that pops a visible notification on your screen that reminds you to do something that you otherwise might have forgotten. Please don't compare it to "looking at your watch". MLG or ladder, it makes no difference. My point is that this can be a tool for people who want to practice their timings and need a reminder, however I sincerely think it shouldn't be used on ladder or in any other competitive scenario.
Good to know what you think =\, now what are you going to do about it?
There's really 2 options here
A) Encourage people to find ways to learn things quickly
B) Shit on new idea's because you don't like them
Neither of these options really DO anything, but i'm fairly sure option A can only lead to better things. Unless your willing to find some amazing way to stop this usage based on whether its custom or ladder.. there's just not going to be any point.
In Online poker you can get those pot odd's calculators, they don't make you a better player though, which is pretty obvious when you look at the sort of people who use them and their statistics. -> if used correctly they MIGHT increase the speed at which you pick up new concepts though.
If you don't like the analogy, i could create another for you, i understand it's not a 1:1 thing we're looking at, but i revert to my original question, "What are you going to do about it?"
(remember, calling him a cheater won't change anything)
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On July 14 2011 20:00 Eleaven wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 19:54 NicoLoco wrote:On July 14 2011 19:51 Eleaven wrote:On July 14 2011 19:45 mdb wrote:
Everything that in one or another way helps you ingame is and is not develpoed by Blizzard is 100% cheating. There is a reason why on chess tournaments the players dont bring their opening books with them. I doubt he's going to be using this at mlg. Don't worry about it. Every time i look at my watch it reminds me to scout.. should i remove it? :S bit of a cheat right? :S This is a file you execute that pops a visible notification on your screen that reminds you to do something that you otherwise might have forgotten. Please don't compare it to "looking at your watch". MLG or ladder, it makes no difference. My point is that this can be a tool for people who want to practice their timings and need a reminder, however I sincerely think it shouldn't be used on ladder or in any other competitive scenario. Good to know what you think =\, now what are you going to do about it? There's really 2 options here A) Encourage people to find ways to learn things quickly B) Shit on new idea's because you don't like them Neither of these options really DO anything, but i'm fairly sure option A can only lead to better things. Unless your willing to find some amazing way to stop this usage based on whether its custom or ladder.. there's just not going to be any point. In Online poker you can get those pot odd's calculators, they don't make you a better player though, which is pretty obvious when you look at the sort of people who use them and their statistics. -> if used correctly they MIGHT increase the speed at which you pick up new concepts though. If you don't like the analogy, i could create another for you, i understand it's not a 1:1 thing we're looking at, but i revert to my original question, "What are you going to do about it?" (remember, calling him a cheater won't change anything)
What am I going to do about it? LOL.
I am not going to do anything. I think you confuse me stating my opinion, which I have a right to do, to me trying to do anything but state the obvious - that it is an advantage you gain that your opponent doesn't know you have and likely won't have.
I am not "shitting on the idea", I am saying that I would encourage people not to utilize this tool in other than practice games.
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This surely counts as cheating.
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On July 14 2011 20:04 NicoLoco wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 20:00 Eleaven wrote:On July 14 2011 19:54 NicoLoco wrote:On July 14 2011 19:51 Eleaven wrote:On July 14 2011 19:45 mdb wrote:
Everything that in one or another way helps you ingame is and is not develpoed by Blizzard is 100% cheating. There is a reason why on chess tournaments the players dont bring their opening books with them. I doubt he's going to be using this at mlg. Don't worry about it. Every time i look at my watch it reminds me to scout.. should i remove it? :S bit of a cheat right? :S This is a file you execute that pops a visible notification on your screen that reminds you to do something that you otherwise might have forgotten. Please don't compare it to "looking at your watch". MLG or ladder, it makes no difference. My point is that this can be a tool for people who want to practice their timings and need a reminder, however I sincerely think it shouldn't be used on ladder or in any other competitive scenario. Good to know what you think =\, now what are you going to do about it? There's really 2 options here A) Encourage people to find ways to learn things quickly B) Shit on new idea's because you don't like them Neither of these options really DO anything, but i'm fairly sure option A can only lead to better things. Unless your willing to find some amazing way to stop this usage based on whether its custom or ladder.. there's just not going to be any point. In Online poker you can get those pot odd's calculators, they don't make you a better player though, which is pretty obvious when you look at the sort of people who use them and their statistics. -> if used correctly they MIGHT increase the speed at which you pick up new concepts though. If you don't like the analogy, i could create another for you, i understand it's not a 1:1 thing we're looking at, but i revert to my original question, "What are you going to do about it?" (remember, calling him a cheater won't change anything) What am I going to do about it? LOL. I am not going to do anything. I think you confuse me stating my opinion, which I have a right to do, to me trying to do anything but state the obvious - that it is an advantage you gain that your opponent doesn't know you have and likely won't have. I am not "shitting on the idea", I am saying that I would encourage people not to utilize this tool in other than practice games.
Okay.
Most people (especially competitive) consider ladder to be practice games.
At least we're a step down from "LOL CHEATEURRR!" now 
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It's funny how people call this a hack. Imagine playing against this player:
"OMG he remembered to macro. HACKER!!!"
This is just an overreaction to one of many macro helper programs already out.
Edit: Just pretend this is another person helping out, like a coach for example.
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No but getting a thread closed to something that pops up in front of your screen at automated times would clear TL of a bad Topic.
The real way to learn is to sit there and look at the in game clock, press the hotkeys for each queen over and over, actually look at the timer on each hatchery, or just use that new feature they added into the game that alerts you when your spawn larva is at the end of the cycle. I doubt blizzard would want you to change where they position the alerts on the screen to put them directly in front of your face. They give you the tools to work with inside the game so you don't have to create batch files or download a program to do the remembering for you.
I just hate seeing this stuff on TL, competitors should use what the game has given them. If you want to do this offline that fine, but I would hope you would get banned for using it in ladder and tournament games where there is actual competition.
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On July 14 2011 20:08 Eleaven wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 20:04 NicoLoco wrote:On July 14 2011 20:00 Eleaven wrote:On July 14 2011 19:54 NicoLoco wrote:On July 14 2011 19:51 Eleaven wrote:On July 14 2011 19:45 mdb wrote:
Everything that in one or another way helps you ingame is and is not develpoed by Blizzard is 100% cheating. There is a reason why on chess tournaments the players dont bring their opening books with them. I doubt he's going to be using this at mlg. Don't worry about it. Every time i look at my watch it reminds me to scout.. should i remove it? :S bit of a cheat right? :S This is a file you execute that pops a visible notification on your screen that reminds you to do something that you otherwise might have forgotten. Please don't compare it to "looking at your watch". MLG or ladder, it makes no difference. My point is that this can be a tool for people who want to practice their timings and need a reminder, however I sincerely think it shouldn't be used on ladder or in any other competitive scenario. Good to know what you think =\, now what are you going to do about it? There's really 2 options here A) Encourage people to find ways to learn things quickly B) Shit on new idea's because you don't like them Neither of these options really DO anything, but i'm fairly sure option A can only lead to better things. Unless your willing to find some amazing way to stop this usage based on whether its custom or ladder.. there's just not going to be any point. In Online poker you can get those pot odd's calculators, they don't make you a better player though, which is pretty obvious when you look at the sort of people who use them and their statistics. -> if used correctly they MIGHT increase the speed at which you pick up new concepts though. If you don't like the analogy, i could create another for you, i understand it's not a 1:1 thing we're looking at, but i revert to my original question, "What are you going to do about it?" (remember, calling him a cheater won't change anything) What am I going to do about it? LOL. I am not going to do anything. I think you confuse me stating my opinion, which I have a right to do, to me trying to do anything but state the obvious - that it is an advantage you gain that your opponent doesn't know you have and likely won't have. I am not "shitting on the idea", I am saying that I would encourage people not to utilize this tool in other than practice games. Okay. Most people (especially competitive) consider ladder to be practice games. At least we're a step down from "LOL CHEATEURRR!" now
Please quote me saying "LOL CHEATEURRR!" or anything remotely close to it.
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Just a help tool imo, nothing to shit our pants over at any rate.
That said I wouldn't use it because (EDIT: disregard) and I think I'd feel better improving without any assistance.
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On July 14 2011 20:08 zzdd wrote:
It's funny how people call this a hack. Imagine playing against this player:
"OMG he remembered to macro. HACKER!!!"
This is just an overreaction to one of many macro helper programs already out.
Edit: Just pretend this is another person helping out, like a coach for example.
Essentially all it is tbh. (but doesn't charge you $30/hour)
And it's much better to post something potentially helpful to the community than to just post negative opinions about everything with nothing of use contributed
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On July 14 2011 20:11 NicoLoco wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2011 20:08 Eleaven wrote:On July 14 2011 20:04 NicoLoco wrote:On July 14 2011 20:00 Eleaven wrote:On July 14 2011 19:54 NicoLoco wrote:On July 14 2011 19:51 Eleaven wrote:On July 14 2011 19:45 mdb wrote:
Everything that in one or another way helps you ingame is and is not develpoed by Blizzard is 100% cheating. There is a reason why on chess tournaments the players dont bring their opening books with them. I doubt he's going to be using this at mlg. Don't worry about it. Every time i look at my watch it reminds me to scout.. should i remove it? :S bit of a cheat right? :S This is a file you execute that pops a visible notification on your screen that reminds you to do something that you otherwise might have forgotten. Please don't compare it to "looking at your watch". MLG or ladder, it makes no difference. My point is that this can be a tool for people who want to practice their timings and need a reminder, however I sincerely think it shouldn't be used on ladder or in any other competitive scenario. Good to know what you think =\, now what are you going to do about it? There's really 2 options here A) Encourage people to find ways to learn things quickly B) Shit on new idea's because you don't like them Neither of these options really DO anything, but i'm fairly sure option A can only lead to better things. Unless your willing to find some amazing way to stop this usage based on whether its custom or ladder.. there's just not going to be any point. In Online poker you can get those pot odd's calculators, they don't make you a better player though, which is pretty obvious when you look at the sort of people who use them and their statistics. -> if used correctly they MIGHT increase the speed at which you pick up new concepts though. If you don't like the analogy, i could create another for you, i understand it's not a 1:1 thing we're looking at, but i revert to my original question, "What are you going to do about it?" (remember, calling him a cheater won't change anything) What am I going to do about it? LOL. I am not going to do anything. I think you confuse me stating my opinion, which I have a right to do, to me trying to do anything but state the obvious - that it is an advantage you gain that your opponent doesn't know you have and likely won't have. I am not "shitting on the idea", I am saying that I would encourage people not to utilize this tool in other than practice games. Okay. Most people (especially competitive) consider ladder to be practice games. At least we're a step down from "LOL CHEATEURRR!" now Please quote me saying "LOL CHEATEURRR!" or anything remotely close to it.
I was talking to the thread in general. Don't take everything personally, (i already know your not one to offer anything, so nothing is being asked of you)
We're, inclusive language. Includes the reader, sorry if that wasn't clear bro.
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Programs like that will propably get you banned by blizz.
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On July 14 2011 20:14 Hashmeister wrote:
Programs like that will propably get you banned by blizz.
Now that isn't true, as the program doesn't alter anything ingame, it just pops up above the game.
It is at least highly unlikely.
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On July 14 2011 20:10 Demonace34 wrote:
No but getting a thread closed to something that pops up in front of your screen at automated times would clear TL of a bad Topic.
The real way to learn is to sit there and look at the in game clock, press the hotkeys for each queen over and over, actually look at the timer on each hatchery, or just use that new feature they added into the game that alerts you when your spawn larva is at the end of the cycle. I doubt blizzard would want you to change where they position the alerts on the screen to put them directly in front of your face. They give you the tools to work with inside the game so you don't have to create batch files or download a program to do the remembering for you.
I just hate seeing this stuff on TL, competitors should use what the game has given them. If you want to do this offline that fine, but I would hope you would get banned for using it in ladder and tournament games where there is actual competition. I think Blizzard should do this.
And when we talk about it, they should enable to modify all UI in game.
It's cute that you can hide all panels, but wouldn't it be better for example for casters to be able to hide everythig except minimap? Why we have to see big panel with move attack hold commands etc, when good players don't use it and for caster it's completely waste of space?
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this is deffently cheating
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if alarms would be synced with in-game production that this could be considered cheating. as this is not..
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I don't see what use this is.
Let me get this straight, this is a program with a timer that just reminds you when to build a MULE, SCV etc is has no responsivity to what is going on in the game at hand nor the players actions/key strokes (pls correct me if I'm wrong)
Surely, this would really make you seceptible to harrasment and non-standard play - if you had your plan all set with your little reminders on when to build an SCV etc what would happen when your opponent does something completely unexpected that throws you off for thrity seconds making you deviate your plan?
Then your plan and reminders will all be out of sync and rendered completely pointless if not incredibly annoying?
I don't see how this would really help you improve - there are bulid order custom games out there which have mre practice applications (though are still themselves limited) - the best you can expect from this is that you will become reliant on a reminder of when to do stuff. I would impede the development of any 'game sense' which in the long run would be a disadvantage.
Think of it learning the piano with one of those keyboards where the key lights up for the next one you should play - yeah you will be able to play fine with that script running, but you would fail to develop any 'ear' for the music or tune nor would you develop a strong muscle memory when reading music....
My verdict is:
L2P
Is this cheating...? Well, using a third party program to (dubiously) enhance your skill/play at the game in a competitive context is bad.
I think only really really bad players would consider this an option....
Pls convince me otherwise - or at least attempt to do so :D
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On July 14 2011 20:28 fds wrote:
if alarms would be synced with in-game production that this could be considered cheating. as this is not..
If you put the sound every 30 something seconds real world time you can sync it easily for larva injects on hatcheries. I don't think that it is going to ruin the game if people use it, but I just don't like the precedent and lines this will eventually allow people to cross. People should just play the normal way to get better instead of finding programs they can use to help get shortcuts to actual training.
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Just leaving this here:
Proof based reasoning -> not cheating
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On July 14 2011 20:57 ScythedBlade wrote:
Just leaving this here:
Proof based reasoning -> not cheating
But gaining an unfair advantage with your ability to make proof based reasonable decision is cheating.
Not that I'm suggesting that this program would give you an advantage.
Edit: spelling.....
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EPT
