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Gigaudas
Sweden1213 Posts
On July 13 2011 07:57 sanya wrote: less effort put in less reward don't see a problem here if they start taking it as seriously as koreans do they'll be right up there ? And if the foreigners don't catch up, you wouldn't mind the foreign scene shrinking because it's fair? | ||
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TooN
1046 Posts
On July 13 2011 07:57 Gigaudas wrote: We don't let Manchester United send their B-team around the world to harvest prize money from local cups. Dont think you can send teams to compete in other leagues.. its not that easy. | ||
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Bombmk
Denmark95 Posts
Seeing as it in no way was a response to any of the speculations in the OP I would say it was quite the opposite from perfect. The OP did not pose the question of whether the koreans should take the money or not. But what the consequences might be from that fact. Personally I am not entirely sure that it will benefit SC2 as global e-sport the way things are moving atm. I don't quite see increased korean participation and dominance outside Korea being a catalyst for expanding the scene. If no native stars are emerging consistently, I assume the market for SC2 e-sports will contract back to Korea and a BW like scene. Can't see NA/EU spectators and consequently sponsors pumping interest and money into a completely korean dominated scene at the levels that are happening now. But I could be wrong. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On July 13 2011 07:57 Gigaudas wrote: We don't let Manchester United send their B-team around the world to harvest prize money from local cups. A better comparison would be tennis, where Nadal, Federer, the Williams sisters etc harvest all the prize money for themselves. Nobody ever says to have less foreigners in Wimbledon in spite of the fact that no native has won the thing in forever. | ||
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blizzind
United States642 Posts
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godemperor
Belgium2043 Posts
On July 13 2011 07:57 Gigaudas wrote: We don't let Manchester United send their B-team around the world to harvest prize money from local cups. Flaw with that arguement is that in most sports, the best teams gets paid the most and the best league gets the most money. (Barce and Real in La Liga, the 2 milans in serie A and Man U in EPL) But its only in the SC2 scene that there is insufficient money in korea for all the players, and are forced to go to foreign tournaments. Team like Man U don't go "fuck, there's no money in the champion league, lets play some more friendlies in the USA with our B-team. Granted playing friendly in the USA does provide money in terms of merchandising but it is usually small compared to their other sources of income. | ||
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sc2olorin
292 Posts
Koreans (being the best players now) will bring in larger numbers of viewers for the major tournaments. Larger numbers of viewers will lead to more sponsors. More sponsors will lead to more money. More money will eventually lead to bigger prize pools. The bigger prize pools will allow tournament organizers to not have such a top-heavy pay-out structure. A well balanced pay-out structure will allow more players to make a living off of progaming, even if they aren't among the very best in the world. Currently, players must rely on team salaries and sponsorship deals to support them, until such time as the prize pools grow to the point that I have just described. | ||
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FlopTurnReaver
Switzerland1980 Posts
Yes the situation right now might be hurtful to non- korean e-sports since sponsors might be discouraged to support it when the koreans are better overall. Just having faith in the community^^ | ||
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Ramble
Sweden877 Posts
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On July 13 2011 07:51 koolaid1990 wrote: As many people said, foreigners actually play alot. They play almost as much as the koreans. Its the efficiency of practice that matters. Koreans play against OTHER good koreans, have coaches, structured strict training schedules. The thing about the foreign scene is that they play against each other, meaning the top of the foreign scene will be inferior to the korean scene simply because they dont practice enough with better players. If somehow NA and Korea Ladder was merged with no latency problems, im sure there will be tons of foreigners who can make it to the top. If this was true then the Korean ladder never would've moved ahead in the first place. In fact given that half as many Koreans play ladder as NA, it should be the other way round. I'm sure having stronger players to ladder with helps, but something else caused that to happen in the first place. | ||
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
On July 13 2011 08:01 Gigaudas wrote: And if the foreigners don't catch up, you wouldn't mind the foreign scene shrinking because it's fair? Exactly. It's happened with Sc1 aswell. What do we have there? Yeah, Flash and Jaedong. Here? Idra and Nony pre Sc2. I'm not dissing on them, because they were the absolute best among the foreigners but they were nothing compared to the koreans. | ||
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lunchforthesky
United Kingdom967 Posts
On July 13 2011 07:57 Gigaudas wrote: We don't let Manchester United send their B-team around the world to harvest prize money from local cups. This is stupid for two main reasons. 1) Starcraft is played online, not in person. If football were online it would be global, it's regionalised purely for logistical values. Football is regionalised for the same reason the GSL is, you can't actually be in it if you're not there in person long term. Football leagues don't ban Brazilian players from competing, only Brazilian teams and even then they're not banned so much as it would be absurd for them to participate from all points of view. In England we have loads of foreign players in our league because they are better and more deserving of a place in our teams. Just like Koreans are more deserving of NASL, Dreamhack, MLG spots etc.. by virtue of being superior players. 2) Starcraft is not a team sport, it is an individual sport. Therefore a proper comparison is not football but Golf and Tennis. Both of which are compeletely global and no one is in favour of banning Tiger Woods from the British Open or Nadal/Djokovic/Federer from Wimbledon because that is beyond retarded and not in the spirit of competition, not to mentioned it cheapens any victory (see Idra on his IPL win) and lessens the appeal for most spectators aside from a few weird racist types. | ||
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NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
On July 13 2011 08:00 gillon wrote: Say MLG was 100% Korean pros competing; Would you still go? I know I would. Yep, if anything I would be more inclined to go as it would mean that the skill level is much higher than current. | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
On July 13 2011 07:36 Zalfor wrote: people gotta get better, that's all there is to it. if the koreans are better, then they should take the money. No. That's not at all how any other sport on the planet works. It's a ridiculous fallacy, and may be the death of the foreigner scene because of it. | ||
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Choboo
Sweden2088 Posts
On July 13 2011 08:03 blizzind wrote: you won't see a foreigner do anything until they start living in korea and train with korean teams. such as huk. naniwa is going to korea soon. right now they are the only hope. Is that why Naniwa, Thorzain and Sen already are able to beat the Koreans fairly consistently without practicing with them yet. They are obviously putting the effort in and as long as you do that it doesn't really matter where you live. | ||
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Castrophy
United States232 Posts
The only way to fix this is for Foreigners to step up there game and start practicing more effiecently. Until they put in as much if not more effort as the Koreans they will never be able to compete. | ||
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lunchforthesky
United Kingdom967 Posts
On July 13 2011 08:03 godemperor wrote: Flaw with that arguement is that in most sports, the best teams gets paid the most and the best league gets the most money. (Barce and Real in La Liga, the 2 milans in serie A and Man U in EPL) But its only in the SC2 scene that there is insufficient money in korea for all the players, and are forced to go to foreign tournaments. Team like Man U don't go "fuck, there's no money in the champion league, lets play some more friendlies in the USA with our B-team. Granted playing friendly in the USA does provide money in terms of merchandising but it is usually small compared to their other sources of income. The Brazil in Football is actually a good comparison to Korea in Sc2. Both harbour a massive proportion of the worlds talent but both don't generate that much money on a domestic level (at least in comparison to their talent pool). In football Brazilians play in every country in the world getting rich, and in Sc2 Koreans enter foreign tournaments. In both instances healthy competition and the advancement of the sport in promoted and the only people harmed are those lesser skilled, which is the entire point of competitive sport in the first place. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On July 13 2011 08:08 MCDayC wrote: No. That's not at all how any other sport on the planet works. It's a ridiculous fallacy, and may be the death of the foreigner scene because of it. You think the best sports players don't take home most of the prize money? What? | ||
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lunchforthesky
United Kingdom967 Posts
On July 13 2011 08:08 oskarla wrote: Is that why Naniwa, Thorzain and Sen already are able to beat the Koreans fairly consistently without practicing with them yet. They are obviously putting the effort in and as long as you do that it doesn't really matter where you live. None of those players beat Koreans consistantly. Thorzain beat Fruit Dealer (who doesn't beat Fruitdealer these days) and MC once. He's lost to MC twice since then, as well as TSL Revival in the NASL. Sen lost to Boxer, MC twice and July at Dreamhack (he won vs July and Zenio) Naniwa lost to MC and Losira at MLG. He beat MC at Homestory and Moon at MLG but lost to Moon at Dreamhack. All three have a negative win/loss ratio versus Koreans. | ||
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Aetherial
Australia917 Posts
But seriously, in my opinion if the Korean players are better they should take the money. Besides I am hopeful things will even out, just look at our hero Huk for instance... | ||
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