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On July 02 2011 21:40 Throllax wrote:
All those suggesting Zerg get Lurkers have obviously not thought much into the consequences of this. SC2 is not like BW; units clump together automatically like a tin of sardines. Lurkers still dealt considerable damage in BW granted, but you really needed a good number of them to control space. In SC2, four lurkers could literally chew through an entire Protoss/Terran army with a couple of hits, and from long range to boot (unlike banelings).
Essentially, if Blizzard wants to introduce lurkers, they will need to rework the entire unit-clumping mechanic. As it stands now, Lurkers would literally break the game, and I doubt Blizzard are going to change a mechanic that central for the sake of one unit. Dark Swarm seems a lot more feasible imo.
That wasn't the reason lurkers were removed, they were removed because they were too weak at hive tech and overlapped with the baneling. The problem was that Blizzard had this idea that the lurker had to always be 1 tier higher than the hydra. Then I don't know why they can't be upgraded from the roach instead.
In the case you are right, then it just goes to show Blizzards in house testing is probably useless.
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For siege units the reaver was removed in favour of the collossus during the alpha, i think toss needs anti air, stalkers aren't that cost effective. The return of the lurker would be great, zerg need to be able to hold a position, they only have one spellcaster too atm. I don't know abt terran, they have everything lol maybe a battle pf that u can liftoff and attack with
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Having a look at the polls, these seem to be the units everyone wants (back)
P: Reaver, Arbiter
Z: LURKER
T: Vulture, Goliath
...not surprising. ^^
I think that P will get an air unit, but not a caster. Maybe some designated AtG unit that kills light units and requires a Fleet Beacon.
Z probably another caster on Hive tech, might even be an air unit.
And T...nothing? They are pretty much complete, no?
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lol @ people thinking theyre gonna implement vultures, reavers and lurkers. Terran really doesn't need another unit, theyre pretty complete. Protoss probably needs a harass unit (Reaver a) overlaps with Colossi for AoE and b) doesn't work with the SC2 engine/mechanics without being completly reworked) and Zerg, uh no Idea but I'd honestly rather see a unit than the Lurker, no idea why people are so attached to it.
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Do you guys want SC1 with fancy graphics, or.....? People are just writing what they want, not what they think Blizzard will actually add, and so they grab all of the BW units. You know someone earlier said it best. Blizzard would be flamed to high hell if SC2 just became SC1 with Marauders.
I really like the idea of Zerg getting a unit that cliff jumps like the Reaper. That would really add to the swarm quality of the race. Of course it'd have to be higher up in the tech tree. Probably mid-tier, not total tier 3. Other than that, speed up Hydras and Overlords. Put Overlord Detection in place of Overlord Speed. This all seems like a reasonable addition by Blizzard. The balancing shouldn't be thrown off too wildly.
Protoss....I really don't know. A unit to help bring the game away from Colossus would be great. That's really a hard choice when you consider how Blizzard has to look at balance too. I'm sure something should be done with the Warp Prism though.
Terran? They have map control with Siege Tanks and excellent drop play functionality with those medivac/marine combos. Marauders will probably be left, with the Viking. Terran can't suddenly go without air units. Maybe if the Thor became a Goliath type unit that was basically dedicated to anti-air. It could be smaller and faster, so that it's easier to defend drop play by leaving a group of five or so at your base. Yeah, I'm going with that. A smaller, faster Thor that's a dedicated anti-air.
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It's very hard to speculate, because there's no limit on how creative Blizzard could be if they wanted to. The community tends to approach the subject of new units in one of two very uncreative ways: either the route of "What units from BW will be returning" or "What units would make SC2 more balanced" (or, similarly, 'fill holes in the races' as the OP put it, or 'what unit does X race need'). The former is probably the better question, because frankly BW has the overall more exciting and strategically interesting suite of units (especially spellcasters), but that's still assuming that Blizzard isn't capable of coming up with entirely new things that are just as good. Or, alternatively, redesigning certain rather bland SC2 units (Colossus cough cough) to be more like their BW counterparts.
But the ladder approach, that of designing units to make the game more balanced rather than to make it more interesting, or designing units to homogenize the races rather than make them more distinct? I seriously hope that's not how Blizzard will go about things, because the result would be something very dull. SC2 is already balanced - what it isn't is as good as it could be. (That people keep saying things like "Terran is already complete" is indicative of just how uncreative HOTS would be if the community had a lot of influence on its development. Terran is complete in the sense that it's almost exactly like BW Terran except for some superficial differences and that it doesn't have Spider Mines? Is "spawn turret" really the pinnacle of spell design? How about some new freaking ideas. Or barring that, just give us Spider Mines and dispense with the 'this is supposed to be a new game' crap. In the case of Terran all I see is BW Lite.)
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I'm pretty sure there will be a cliff-hopping unit for Zerg, because it is yet the only race who doesn't have one as Blizzard emphasized it in April's fool post.
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for P I want something like a raven (caster with detection) from stargate.
for Z, lurkers evolved from hydras.
for T, I don't know, terran looks complete. i like all actual units.
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My dream is a Hive tech upgrade that give zergling cliff jumping.
But that would never happend, protoss and terran could neverbe protected for that kind of thing. x)
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This seems more like "What unit from BW would you like to see back in SC2?" pool.
Protoss want Reavers back, Zerg want Lurkers and Terran want vultures. Nothing new.
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On July 02 2011 23:06 rpgalon wrote:
for P I want something like a raven (caster with detection) from stargate.
for Z, lurkers evolved from hydras.
for T, I don't know, terran looks complete. i like all actual units.
Lets call it the Fathership!
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I didn't play BW (I wish I did) so I can't comment on returning BW units. However, I play Zerg and have always envied the Protoss for the Observer. I'm not a big fan of the Changeling and I've pondered the effects of removing it and replacing it with an ability that cloaks the Overseer for a period of time.
Oh and Queens injecting Evo Chambers speeds up the upgrades! Okay, probably not going to happen ^.^
My apologies for deviating from the units in the poll.
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Not really sure if any race needs any units, terran doesn't at least. Maybe add some upgrades for units already existing, the only unit I can think off that'd be nice for the game is an harrassment unit for protoss
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i want dynamic units that arent just 1a units or spellcasters with aoe damage spell tt sc2 has enough of that
spider mines would be nice
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I think there should be a lair upgrade that lets roaches morph into bane-apults. You make banelings and assign them to the bane-apult that then fires the banelings one at a time a long distance like a broodlord. You could lob live banelings up into the enemy base who could then walk over to the enemy buildings and kill them.
That might be a little too good but the other races will probably be getting some ridiculous stuff as well. Maybe to balance it the bane-apult has to root like spine/spore crawlers and can only do that on creep. That way you can either only use it defensively, use it late game when your creep reaches their base, or bring an overlord to the location that if sniped will prevent the bane-apult from continuing to attack.
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On July 02 2011 21:25 SirMilford wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 21:23 WhiteraCares wrote:On July 02 2011 21:16 Diks wrote:
This is my secret dream for the expansion :
Protoss :
Collossus removed, Reavers added. + Buff for the warp prism.
Phoenixes get corsair's attack. (because protoss has no air splash except for archon)
Zerg :
Lurker added; + addition of a new spell caster
Scourges replace corruptors.
Terran :
Land mine upgrade for the reaper; Cliff-walking mechanic removed.
Science vessel replaces raven. Someone get Blizzard to hire this guy, I couldn't agree more. That is just Starcraft 1 but. Blizzard wants to make the games different and not create SC2 as a SC1 clone.
True or not this would be some massive gameplay improvements... And if cloning some more aspects of their prequel makes it a more fun game I'm all for it.
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ZERG
Zerg1: 1 supply Hydras to reward players for spreading creep
lets face it, only so many hydras can attack at once due to their size and choke points and AoE can kill any amount when you defend well. They still cost alot but wont be such a supply hog, making them more reliable and expendable at the same time, I like this idea because I think Hydra should always be weak to AoE but it shouldnt be the end of the world if a control group dies to 1 or 2 storms.
Zerg2: More resiliant Creep
Creep takes alot of effort to spread, taking micro and a good memory to keep working on it every so often. Players should not have their hard work undone so easily. My idea for this stems from how Command and Conquer generals handled GLA tunnel systems, meaning you would have to kill the creep tumour twice, but maybe have the tumor become invulnerible after its been killed once, then after one minute it will begin to regrow. To kill the Creep tumor completely and dispurse creep you must destroy it during its regrowing sequence otherwise it will be fully repaired.
This Mechanic could also be effective in denieing expansions, by dropping a creep tumor under an overlord whos spreading it. This will at the very least denie an expansion for just over 1minute. (Could be accompished as early as lair tech and overlord drop to get queen over there)
Zerg3: Lurker
Has to be lurker, +7 or 8 range, with a buff against armoured if marauders are still in the same form come the expansion.
Zerg4: Infester Changes
Fungal functions too much like Pystorm for my liking however Im okay with it remaining as is, however I do wish fungal didnt effect floating/ flying (i.e scv/ probe, pheonix, muta) the same as it does ground units. Floating or air units should only have a 50% speed decrease from Fungal, its simply unfair that mass infestor can completely destroy all air tactics, plus I would like to see Mutalisks become viable in ZvZ again.
Zerg5: Small Roach change
I like the Roach its a great little damage sponge, but one thing I dislike is how effective it is against the Zealot....... maybe this should be a zealot change then...... but Zealots have to be balanced along side zerglings...... so mayeb Ling and zealots need a small buff? Not sure about that, I just know that zealots for cost are just too ineffective against roaches. I dont believe mass zealot should beat mass roach but I dont like how they melt so fast at the front line in a mid game ZvP engagement.
Zerg6: Ultralisk
The only thing I can think of is that they should be able to push through any non massive unit, I think that alone would work......... A marauder change would also help.
Zerg7: Corrupter & infester
Corrupters should Morph from Muta, mainly because I think they can be massed much too quickly if Zerg sees Collosus but didnt scout the teching process. To help balance this, maybe both muta and corrupter can morph to broodlords.
Corrputer granted two abilities, 1) Spawn Scourge 2) Give the Neural Parasite ability to corrupter? lol, maybe give infester Dark swarm in exchange? lol Im not entirely sure about these, but I think they might work, and at least the corrupters name would finally make sense (corruption doesnt really corrupt does it?)
PROTOSS
Protoss1: Replace the immortal with Reaver
Dont get me wrong I love the immortal and would like to see it stay, but the reaver was just so much more effective in so many roles and the immortal currently doesnt even fill its own tank, damge sponge role so well (Still great against tanks.... maybe for that reason alone they should remain..... maybe with a 0.5sec effect on the hardened shield to stop focus fire?).
(Note: Blink may be too effective against slow Reavers....)
Also I dont believe Blizzard will have so many robo units and I expect the Collosus to remain no matter what (probably altered a little but still present.)
Or they could just give the immortal scarabs lol.......... if they managed to make that work, without being incredibly imbalanced that'd be nice.
Protoss2: Remove the Mothership and give us a real air caster.
I wish to see the return of Maelstrom and an effective unit to cast recall and Stasis.
I think Maelstrom is necessary to punish Mass Muta, I believe that currently there is not enough risk for the zerg doing this.
Mass Muta should be a huge risk later in the game in any match up because they are the easiest units to navigate and do damage with (not saying its easy against a bioball or deathball, just easy to navigate around, and force a base trade especially in PvZ)
Protoss3: Collosus made more vulnerable
It should be more vulnerable, if only for the sake of PvP, Nerfing their scoot and shoot abilties would be a nice change; i.e 0.5sec charge before each attack + 0.5 sec preparation before it can move again, in effect making the unit go into a passive siege unseiged stance. Not sure if that would work, just thinking out loud.
TERRAN
Terrran is a great race at the moment, very little changes needed
Terran1: Viking Speed and Range changes
Viking: Increased speed in exchange for -2 range might be nice. This would reflect the Collosus nuff in manoeuvrability
Terran2: Thor AA Buff
Thor: Increased effectiveness of anti air barage, its splash radius seems to be alot weaker now than beta, Ive actually seen groups of muta clumped up and only one taking damage from several shots. +2 radius plus a mild damage buff.
Terran3: Raven Fix
Raven: Increased speed and replace auto turret with Defensive matrix, and actually make seeker missile useful again or if its too powerful just replace it with Irradiate! Sorry that Im basically asking for the science vessel back but it was a much better caster unit and did a gret job of shutting down mass muta which should be an option for any race. I do think the Raven is a much cooler looking unit thanthe science vessel but it has to fulfil its role which currently it is not.
Terran4: Marauders
I have actually grown to like the marauder. As a protoss player it used to be the bain of PvT however I think we have all grown used to it and in the Meta game is now balanced as people know how to handle it, however against large units like the Ultralisk, Siege tanks in TvT and Immortals they are much too good, almost game ruining (again thinking of TvT)
I already mentioned giving the Immortals hardened shield a 0.5 effect to suck in focus fire, but for the rest? I feel that maybe another armour type should be introduced, replacing armoured with medium and heavy.
Marauders can contine to do 20 damage to roaches and stalkers but weaker against buffer units.
One buff maybe to improve concussion granades to effect more units, slowing more zealots, lings, blings.
THATS ALL I GOT
I think Starcraft 2 is very well balanced and fun at the moment, just whether its balanced in the "correct" way at the moment is another thing.
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Seems like this poll is pretty pointless as it includes the obvious answer to each one.
Most people wanted reavers lurkers and vultures back. We know that. Now if anyone can come up with a NEW idea, that I'd be into.
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On July 02 2011 20:17 sabas123 wrote:
P: i realy am not sure what they are gonna put into, but i hope there gonna do a reaver like untie
Z: LURKER!!!
T: a better anti air unit besides from marines
If they remove colossus, a reaver-like unit would be good. If they don't, it would be an overkill. They might bring back dark archon though. And why in the world would Terran need another anti-air unit? Is it because marines actually require micro? Rofl. For Terran, I'd like combat shield being replaced by marine range upgrade. As for the unit, I can't see medics being brought back and same applies for firebats. I think it would be a ground mech unit if they somehow think that terran requires anything.
With Zerg, I would like a caster and lurkers though. Or scourges and lurkers and make corruptor greater spire unit. If they aren't going to put a good caster unit in the game, at least please turn overseer into something we might want to get for anything other than mobile detection.
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On July 02 2011 23:10 Billd wrote:
I didn't play BW (I wish I did) so I can't comment on returning BW units. However, I play Zerg and have always envied the Protoss for the Observer. I'm not a big fan of the Changeling and I've pondered the effects of removing it and replacing it with an ability that cloaks the Overseer for a period of time.
Oh and Queens injecting Evo Chambers speeds up the upgrades! Okay, probably not going to happen ^.^
My apologies for deviating from the units in the poll.
I dunno why people don't like changelings...unless the guy has got anti air ringing his whole base and units ready in there to kill it, you're going to see inside his main.
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