EPTWorry about good macro not about APM.
Minimum APM required to "just macro" - Page 6
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starcraft911
Korea (South)1263 Posts
Worry about good macro not about APM. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26223 Posts
What the guy above said rings true. My average is like 110 as a gold player (don't kill me guys I've only recently got the game  ), my friend Flu who's a high master zerg goes on about 60-80As far as I can tell it's a matter of playstyle as well as having your builds down TIGHT. I prefer to play very aggressively, I often do Blink Stalker all-ins v Zerg for example which require tons of blink micro to work, simultaneously warping in while attempting to macro at the same time. Flu on the other hand has solid, solid standard builds and doesn't have to think when he's executing them I also notice Zergs APMs tend to be higher, but I think that's due to their method of injecting and producing everything from the hatch, as well as spreading creep | ||
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zyzski
United States698 Posts
if you're taking early 3rds you need decent APM to keep up | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On June 21 2011 12:32 K3Nyy wrote: If it's just macroing without any fighting or active scouting, etc. then you can probably do it with 60-80 APM. Protoss will obviously need less and Zerg and Terran will need more. Obviously? How is that? Protoss is quite similar to Terran in the macro department I'd say, both have to add more structures the longer the game goes on and actually Protoss can Chrono every 25 energy as opposed to every 50 so they have to use that more often. Not sure how Terran needs more APM for macroing. On June 21 2011 13:51 Mykill wrote: well protoss doesnt need to cycle throug production buildings as W will bring up all the warpgates leaving upgrades (2 forge, 1or2 robo and maybe an upgrade running). So that leaves a lot of time for army positioning  Yeah because the only production buildings of Protoss are Warp/Gateways... Ignorant statement. Does this mean you put all your production facilities on 1 hotkey? That's bad practice anyway. I have 3 different keys for Gateways/Robos/Stargates. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26223 Posts
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ETisME
12623 Posts
On June 22 2011 01:26 Dzerzhinsky wrote: I'm mid-Masters, have decent macro, am not a 2-base player, and have a usual average APM between 60 and 75 (I think 86 was my record, when I went pure Marine/Medivac against a 4 base Master Protoss). I don't think I've ever watched a replay where my opponent had over 100 average APM (as almost all do) without spamming ridiculously at the start and telling their units where to go 20 times each. The difference between my APM and theirs is that mine goes up as the game gets longer and more demanding while theirs invariably goes down. This isn't to say that you can be perfect and go pro with 60 APM, of course, but far too much is made of this ultimately useless statistic -- as the completely random numbers of 150 or 200 that people are throwing about demonstrates. The SC2 world (and most of its players) would be turned on its head if the stat only counted effective APM. are you including your micro into that apm count? If so, your apm is really way too low to do any stuttersteps while getting a good macro going (unless of cause you are queuing lots of units) | ||
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Clog
United States950 Posts
On June 22 2011 05:03 dani` wrote: Obviously? How is that? Protoss is quite similar to Terran in the macro department I'd say, both have to add more structures the longer the game goes on and actually Protoss can Chrono every 25 energy as opposed to every 50 so they have to use that more often. Not sure how Terran needs more APM for macroing. Yeah because the only production buildings of Protoss are Warp/Gateways... Ignorant statement. Does this mean you put all your production facilities on 1 hotkey? That's bad practice anyway. I have 3 different keys for Gateways/Robos/Stargates. Protoss units are generally more expensive, so you train a smaller quantity compared to terran. Translates to less APM. | ||
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KiLL_ORdeR
United States1518 Posts
On June 22 2011 05:03 dani` wrote: Obviously? How is that? Protoss is quite similar to Terran in the macro department I'd say, both have to add more structures the longer the game goes on and actually Protoss can Chrono every 25 energy as opposed to every 50 so they have to use that more often. Not sure how Terran needs more APM for macroing. Yeah because the only production buildings of Protoss are Warp/Gateways... Ignorant statement. Does this mean you put all your production facilities on 1 hotkey? That's bad practice anyway. I have 3 different keys for Gateways/Robos/Stargates. It's more effecient to put all your production facilities on 1 hotkey and tab through them. It's what pros do. Just sayin  | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On June 22 2011 00:46 ProtossPenny wrote: As far as apm per race goes, mechanically Zerg requires the most apm. Zerg has the most mechanics in it to require the most efficient play, OL spread, creep spread, injects. I wouldn't say zerg is the most mechanically demanding, but rewards players with superior mechanics. You don't need much apm at all to macro as Z; Infact, it's relatively easy to micro/macro at the same time mid fight/mid harass, minus injects. Even then, when compared to protoss, it's a similar amount of actions/window focus between both injecting and having to look at a pylon to warp off 7-12 gateways. All three races are relatively similar in the difficulty of their mechanics; T and Z simply have a higher skill ceiling than toss. | ||
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locopuyo
United States144 Posts
the average apm needed for perfect macro doing the bare minimum is extremely low, but there are spikes where you are going to need extremely high apm to macro perfectly. lesson learned from thread: be more precise with the timing of macro actions and you will need less to achieve the same level of macro. freeing more apm for micro | ||
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Bkennedy
United States266 Posts
"Perfect" macro (in a theoretical sense) is impossible to achieve. The degree to which good macro can be achieved is a combination of both speed of APM, and efficiency of APM. Fast APM with no efficiency will be bad, efficient apm with super slow APM (like 50-70) will also be bad. You need a combination of the two, the slower, it's probably worse (assuming the efficiency remains the same.) Point being, if you have an APM of 70 or so, you're not doing it optimally. | ||
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lolsixtynine
United States600 Posts
On June 21 2011 12:22 closey wrote: Interesting...but I'd like to object. My average APM is capped around 50-ish even on ladders and I can keep up with my macro until past 30 minutes. I'll do some tests personally, I think we can get lower than 75APM for a 3 base terran! Sorry, but I seriously doubt you can "keep up with your macro" at a pro-level with 50 apm. It's simply not feasible on 4+ bases that you're really doing it nearly as well as you claim, even if you aren't spamming or wasting clicks. You may have very different standards for good macro as someone like IdrA does. I bet it's impossible to have IdrA's level of macro with anything less than 90-100 apm. And for a human, it's even more than that because it's not possible to always click inject, spawn creep tumor, etc. with 100% timing unless you spam. | ||
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Johnnybb
Denmark486 Posts
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
Your apm is low because you aren't macroing/microing very well, not the other way around. | ||
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Xanwi
United Kingdom114 Posts
On June 22 2011 05:01 MCDayC wrote: Get good macro, and the apm will follow. Anything else is just silly. Ya, pretty much, gotta say though that there are very few cases where good macro correlates with gosu-high APM among pros, there are many higher level players that have <150 APM and yet use that limited APM to great length. I think instead of aiming to raise your APM you should keep practising until your mechanics/timings are instinctive, at which point there is really no need to have insane APM. | ||
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johlar
Sweden165 Posts
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Bkennedy
United States266 Posts
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xsevR
United States324 Posts
You could probably figure this out without playing by looking at production times, total minerals to spend, etc. but its going to be different depending on what you're producing. | ||
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terran151
Canada103 Posts
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my apm is around 130-140 avg and i still struggle to keep my macro going when their is a lot of battles occurring.
