EPTMinimum APM required to "just macro" - Page 8
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kyzers0ze
Singapore1073 Posts
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TigerKarl
1757 Posts
As a mid level master zerg player my macro apm in long games is around 40. I guess with 60 APM for macro you have enough clicking capacity to play "perfect" macro. That doesn't change the fact that apm is overrated. There's a correlation with win rate, but APM is no causation for success. The spam clicking has some kind of placebo effect because people actually believe it makes them better. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
i use minimum apm and i average 110 apm for terran/toss and 130 for zerg. (random player) by bare minimum i mean no pointless spamming throughout the game by selecting workers, cycling through hotkeys, rally pointing multiple times, all in a span of 1-2 seconds. one to two clicks when moving units. no double clicks to select same type of unit. after how people would try so hard to increase their apm by whatever method they have in mind, i've decided to go the other route. my apm does spike up to 200 to 300 when it requires me to but mostly during battles. if i remember correctly from checking sc2gears last time, my micro was about 80 and my macro around 40. | ||
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Crookie
United States31 Posts
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repsac
91 Posts
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ganil
253 Posts
On August 20 2011 10:28 jinorazi wrote: trying to figure out what how much to apm for macro is hard because if the apm were to increase or decrease, it only means that buildings are being placed down slow/fast, units being made fast/slow, it also has to do with how hotkeys are used for buildings. i use minimum apm and i average 110 apm for terran/toss and 130 for zerg. (random player) by bare minimum i mean no pointless spamming throughout the game by selecting workers, cycling through hotkeys, rally pointing multiple times, all in a span of 1-2 seconds. one to two clicks when moving units. no double clicks to select same type of unit. after how people would try so hard to increase their apm by whatever method they have in mind, i've decided to go the other route. my apm does spike up to 200 to 300 when it requires me to but mostly during battles. if i remember correctly from checking sc2gears last time, my micro was about 80 and my macro around 40. +1. I main terran and I sometimes offrace aswell. Numbers are the same for me. Maybe even 5-10 lower (especially for protoss but it's because I'm bad so I don't really know what to do). as T I often end short game with less than 90, and long macro heavy game with over 110~120 because 5(my rax hk)aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa does make a lot of actions lol. Someone more precise who almost never check anything (i mean uppgrade timing) and doesn't missclick could be even lower. I think many player who don't spam feel comfortable and do everything needed with between 90 and 130 apm. For those who say low apm = low multitask, they're wrong. Multitasking is more about how organised you are because you obviously can't do everything at the same time. You need some priorities (and then do it as fast as you can, but doing it fast isn't hard at all). Note that most "good" players averaging 90-120 will usually have apm spike during fights/tense moment because... well they have to. But when you have 5 scv and there is nothing to do, they won't have 300+ apm like other players and average 30. | ||
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IamZieK
Canada162 Posts
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tsarnicky
104 Posts
On June 21 2011 12:31 Mojar wrote: If your apm is around 50 on ladder games then your not keeping up with your macro at all sorry  my apm is around 130-140 avg and i still struggle to keep my macro going when their is a lot of battles occurring.I'm sorry, but seeing as whitera's apm is 120 avg and goody generally has 120 apm for the first 10 minutes, I'd say you're either wasting apm or spamming. In any case, apm doesn't matter: If you're really concerned about improving/sc2 your time is better spent in the strat section/ watching replays/fpstreams (obv i'm not rly concerned) | ||
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IamZieK
Canada162 Posts
On August 20 2011 10:17 TigerKarl wrote: Well SC II Gears can distinguish between micro and macro apm. As a mid level master zerg player my macro apm in long games is around 40. I guess with 60 APM for macro you have enough clicking capacity to play "perfect" macro. That doesn't change the fact that apm is overrated. There's a correlation with win rate, but APM is no causation for success. The spam clicking has some kind of placebo effect because people actually believe it makes them better. I beg to differ. I find my spamming at the start it gets my hands nice and warmed up/comfortable. It and it allows me later game to inject perfectly/tumors etc no matter how many bases I have because I am warmed up to move that fast. Sure I spam at the start but when I finish the game around 250 alot of that changed into useful apm (constant ling movement/ tumors/overlord position/ injects/ larva management etc.) Not to mention the ridiculous amount of micro you must use. | ||
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Xaerkar
United States230 Posts
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eourcs
United States459 Posts
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
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shucklesors
Singapore1176 Posts
It is impossible, not next to impossible, to measure the required APM for each race, each build-specific order of things at each minute of the game objectively and without bias simply because + Show Spoiler + we're humans. You can use mass amounts of tests to try and counteract this with a more 'accurate' average but you'll still find things very messy and subjective. Besides, is this really necessary to find out? We're not talking the 150 EAPM for macro the lowest level of progamers in BW have.. | ||
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MonkSEA
Australia1227 Posts
(My macro) | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
Interesting subject, it should be kinda easy to calculate if you look at pure macro and a specific build You have your mules from 2-3 orbitals, suv production and suply depot building during the buildup to 200/200, buiding of rax and fac/startport and then the production from that, upgrades and addons , setting rally point and occasional switch of point of vieuw and control group you could in theory add it all up,and then calculate the apm needed Guess it might be supringly low, 40? might try to calculate it | ||
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L3gendary
Canada1470 Posts
The reason that bw macro is much harder than sc2 macro is not that it takes a lot more apm but that it forces u to pull ur attention back to the base more. And that's what consumes the most time, switching between tasks at different locations on the map, and not the actual task of macroing. | ||
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SecondChance
Australia603 Posts
Speaking from personal experience, over 30 minute games I can have an average APM of 160-177; and my macro still needs work; easily. That being said; if my game sense was better; speed of mind and simply "Knowing" more about the game, I could probably macro better with less APM - for arguments sake. However, I wouldn't give up my APM for that; as marine splitting is very challenging on US server (laggy grr) and I need all the hand speed I can get. Also, it'd be quite race dependent also. | ||
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GLLvz
Norway122 Posts
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Joey Wheeler
Korea (North)276 Posts
That's when I realized macro goes much deeper than what I originally thought it would be. Sure macro is easy when your micro basically consists of a-clicking, but once it gets deeper and you're in more complex situation, your view on it becomes completely different. My apm went from 120 to 180-200 as I began changing my playstyle. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
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