Players like Sjow and Goody consistently que up tons of scvs, and units in the mid-late game and their apm's are incredible low. They hover around 100, but I know they have recently gotten a tad bit faster in the 120 range. However they are two of the top pros in europe despite being so slow. You really don't need that much APM, 90 APM can get you into masters, and if you are efficient enough, even grandmasters. Goody and Sjow's macro are not that good, but their decision making and knowledge of the game is very good. You really don't need to worry too much about APM.

I'm a masters player that plays all the races, and my APM will hover anywhere from 90-130 average throughout the game. In big fights it will spike to 300-400. I've found my lowest APM is as protoss (which is actually my strongest race), then terran and zerg are a bit higher but both being around the same number.

Bro_Stone

United States510 Posts

August 19 2011 23:19 GMT

#122

From a terran perspective:
40ish apm one base
70ish 2 base
100ish 3base
120ish 4 base+

Just to macro, coming from mid-master terran

Micket

United Kingdom2163 Posts

August 19 2011 23:28 GMT

#123

If you are looking over your production facilities, it is very easy to just macro with low apm, because you do t have to cycle through your buildings at all be because you can see he progress bar.

Doing the same with just hot keys is a different matter entirely

Complete

United States1864 Posts

August 19 2011 23:33 GMT

#124

I used to be able to macro at a non-cheesy C+ ICCUP level with 40 sc2 apm in BW. I'm sure you can play at a Masters level with 50 sc2 apm.

4Servy

Netherlands1542 Posts

August 19 2011 23:34 GMT

#125

some can do it with 10, some do it with 200 there is no real answer.

rezzan

Sweden329 Posts

August 19 2011 23:36 GMT

#126

im always at minimum 110 APM without spaming ofc. just what I need to do, im on Plat league.

Talic_Zealot

688 Posts

August 19 2011 23:37 GMT

#127

Playing 2-3 vs the AI getting maxed as fast as possible instead making up and posting this would be 10 times more useful for your apm. Mechanics take practice, that's all. Having 150 sc2 apm is really easy(go to an online metronome and see how slow that is) the thing is you have to know what are you going to do instead of thinking of it in the game.

Fishgle

United States2174 Posts

August 19 2011 23:39 GMT

#128

I think the consensus is that you need ~40 apm per base to macro, which seems pretty reasonable to me.

- Protoss is slightly less due to Warpgate mechanic being extremely APM efficient.
- Zerg would be the lowest off one base, but due to zerg expanding more, it evens out.
- In the Lategame, apm is lowered substantially because depots/pylons/ovys are no longer required.

Aocowns

Norway6070 Posts

August 19 2011 23:44 GMT

#129

I'm gold Zerg, and if I'm not pressured or anything, I can keep a healthy 70-90 APM if I keep up with my injections and creep spread. I dunno if it takes higher APM for zerg to do everything effectively. This is of course when I'm up running 3-4 bases with good creepspread and each queen manually hotkeyed as an injection method(Not the most effective one in term of speed, but I'm feeling like I kind of lose controll too easily with the backspace method, with queens running everywhere :/)

RedDragon571

United States633 Posts

August 19 2011 23:44 GMT

#130

Blah blah blah, Terran, blah blah blah, Zerg, cause blah blah blah, Protoss bLAH!
E-Penis Can has so huge for apm cause be can 400apm. Blah

Seriously, APM, required is all relative. Do you want to be in bronze league fine then you only need 50 apm. Do you want to be in masters league then fine you need 120 apm. Do you want to win GSL code S, then fine you need 250 apm. Do you want to be a bot with perfect macro with every worker being stacked on close mineral patches in perfect order, mules being pulled away last second, fine you need 1500 apm. This question is pretty vague. This thread is just E-penis measuring contest pretty much.

Who gives a shit about how much you apm NEED and why are you trying to have the minimum apm required anyway. Practice until you have the apm and mechanics of a korean pro, and constantly improve. Put some effort into getting better instead of trying to do the bare minimum required to get by, if you have that mindset you should stay in what shitty league your in forever.

ronpaul012

United States769 Posts

August 19 2011 23:48 GMT

#131

My average apm usually ends somewhere between 50-60 from the games. When watching replays the highest I've ever seen myself at was 132. I don't spam at all during the game. I think the key thing to look at is average apm vs. possible apm. I regularly average around 100 during battles, and could easily average that if I wanted to spam. However, I don't so my true average apm is only about 50-60. And I'm in diamond by the way.

Arcanne

United States1519 Posts

August 19 2011 23:57 GMT

#132

SC2 100 apm imo

ChickaChuckWally

Australia85 Posts

August 20 2011 00:12 GMT

#133

yeah, I'm a plat Terran and have 150(in game) apm and after about 30 minutes or so, when I'm about 4-5 bases my macro kinda slips.

id say, platinum and below, 100 is probably more than enough.

sc2effort

Russian Federation269 Posts

August 20 2011 00:27 GMT

#134

180+ here, in ladder im around 180-195 in tournys im around 200-215+

im a zerg

Talin

Montenegro10532 Posts

August 20 2011 00:30 GMT

#135

Eh, some of the suggested numbers (anything over 100+ basically) seem unrealistically high, regardless of level of play. The only difference between "perfect" macro and any other kind is in having your actions done exactly on time, rather than doing more of them. Nobody misses a Larva inject because they have so much to do that they're 10 actions too slow to do it - they miss it because they forget about it for 5 seconds or 5 minutes (and this is where skill level makes a difference)

I can't really imagine a macro-only scenario that would require you to do more than 1 or 2 timely actions per second on average. Although I suppose a lot of it depends on inner sense of timing - so you don't need to "check" (use a hotkey) like 20 times to see whether something has finished producing or if your cc/nexus energy built up.

My estimate would be 50-70, depending on race.

skrotcyk

Sweden432 Posts

August 20 2011 00:35 GMT

#136

When I play protoss i can macro fine with 70-100 apm but when I play zerg i'm having at least 140+ apm and i play both races at around the same level

pungk

Romania61 Posts

August 20 2011 00:36 GMT

#137

well i've seen master players with 70 apm so i don't think its that important... i'm plat and i average 100-110 out of combat and it spikes way higher 250+ when fighting. But that doesnt mean nothing as most of it is useless... all that matter is efficient apm and u dont really have a way to messure that.

As long as you know what to prioritize to make ur apm as efficient as possible its all ok altho geting from bronze(where i had 50-60 apm) to plat my apm got higher and from gold(it was still at 100ish) to plat it has become way more efficient as now i'm starting to feel i'm able to macro and micro way better... only thing i think that i should improve is prioritizing what to do with my apm.

tl:dr make ur apm as efficient as possible even if its 50ish and then try to make it higher as it doesnt really count if u have 200 apm but 100 is wasted

sealpuncher

United States130 Posts

August 20 2011 00:37 GMT

#138

To me apm really isn't that big of a deal. Having a lot of apm in fights and for harassing and stuff is always great but not that big of a deal. If you are only macroing and doing it perfectly as terran I would think you'd need upwards of 100-120 apm to constantly check your barracks and command center to make sure you're constantly making units without queuing.

Lobotomist

United States1541 Posts

August 20 2011 00:44 GMT

#139

60? Generally the more the better.

The whole "Just macro your way into diamond/masters" is sort of misleading. Really, it means that you should generally focus on macro stuff like not getting supply blocked, expanding, making workers and building stuff with most of your mental energy rather than attempting to perform advanced micro or play mindgames or do cute tricks. It's a good game approach, but not really as concrete as people think.