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Zhou
United States832 Posts
For just good macro, I'd say 150 and under works just fine. I'd say my top paragraph only applies if you continue to produce and expand around the map. That's when it starts to increase via building units. The thing is, once you reach the 200 food count, there's not much left to macro. So it's kind of an icky thing to look at. I'd say the APM is unimportant, as long as you're doing what you need to do in a current game. | ||
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Minigun
619 Posts
On June 22 2011 00:36 cantwait wrote: 75 is the bare minimum for what kind of gameplay? Silver league? Grandmasters? Without stating for whom the rule applies, those numbers are meaningless. I know I'm comfortably up there in the Master league with well below 75 Macro APM even when I'm on my third base. None, for optimal macro getting done what needs to be done when it should be done. It's closer to 100 now that I think about it. League has nothing to do with it. | ||
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Chinchillin
United States259 Posts
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chenchen
United States1136 Posts
On June 22 2011 00:36 cantwait wrote: 75 is the bare minimum for what kind of gameplay? Silver league? Grandmasters? Without stating for whom the rule applies, those numbers are meaningless. I know I'm comfortably up there in the Master league with well below 75 Macro APM even when I'm on my third base. Looking at the title of the thread, I'd venture so far as to guess that he means bare minimum to keep up macro. | ||
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Qntc.YuMe
United States792 Posts
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ProtossPenny
United States169 Posts
Mutaling as zerg also requires more apm than roach hydra. Ling, infestor, drop is very similar to bio drop play, apm wise. Both require a large amount. Aswell as blink stalker play, while macroing behind it. Or pheonix play. So in summary I think that Zerg is the most mechanically demanding apm race, but the playstyle you have of any race determines how much apm you need. | ||
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Minigun
619 Posts
On June 22 2011 00:45 DreamRaider wrote: there is no bare minimum since it also depends on your income rate and number of production facilities. Obviously the number goes up as the game goes on... | ||
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Virid
United States130 Posts
But, I'm gold and I probably don't even have a good concept of macro. | ||
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Laurence
Ireland119 Posts
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On June 22 2011 00:23 Ashes wrote: sorry I disagree with you. EG Axslav plays at such a low APM, but he is on top of his Micro and Macro. So you dont have a valid point. APM gets solid as you play more and more and tend to repeat your builds and refine them But his APM is not 50 isn't it? The more bases you have, the more apm it will require to manage all the base. Most people who say they have less than 80 APM and still diamond master are 2-base players from my experience from all threads like this. | ||
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Raysalis
Malaysia1034 Posts
Right now, it takes most of my concentration just to macro properly in a relax environment. Wish I could actually macro and fight :p | ||
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aisight
United States145 Posts
The unfortunate consequence of only playing at this APM, though, is that your multitask suffers horribly - you might hit some 200-300 APM when microing your army for those big battles, but you'll probably be hard-pressed to do anything else useful in the meantime. If you are already at 75+ APM doing nothing but macroing as efficiently as possible, the next logical step would be to then practice your multitask, which should naturally elevate your APM as you learn to control both your army and your base at the same time without falling behind significantly on either. | ||
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Dzerzhinsky
Scotland327 Posts
On June 22 2011 01:10 canikizu wrote: But his APM is not 50 isn't it? The more bases you have, the more apm it will require to manage all the base. Most people who say they have less than 80 APM and still diamond master are 2-base players from my experience from all threads like this. I'm mid-Masters, have decent macro, am not a 2-base player, and have a usual average APM between 60 and 75 (I think 86 was my record, when I went pure Marine/Medivac against a 4 base Master Protoss). I don't think I've ever watched a replay where my opponent had over 100 average APM (as almost all do) without spamming ridiculously at the start and telling their units where to go 20 times each. The difference between my APM and theirs is that mine goes up as the game gets longer and more demanding while theirs invariably goes down. This isn't to say that you can be perfect and go pro with 60 APM, of course, but far too much is made of this ultimately useless statistic -- as the completely random numbers of 150 or 200 that people are throwing about demonstrates. The SC2 world (and most of its players) would be turned on its head if the stat only counted effective APM. | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
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aisight
United States145 Posts
On June 22 2011 01:26 Dzerzhinsky wrote:This isn't to say that you can be perfect and go pro with 60 APM, of course, but far too much is made of this ultimately useless statistic -- as the completely random numbers of 150 or 200 that people are throwing about demonstrates. The SC2 world (and most of its players) would be turned on its head if the stat only counted effective APM. It's rather difficult to get an objective number out of a subjective classification. | ||
digmouse
China6330 Posts
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dmillz
Canada270 Posts
In response to the OP I think that 60-75 APM is tons to do JUST macro. The only reason you would need more is if your cycling through all of your production buildings constantly, which isn't really needed if you have decent sense of timing (note: I don't mean don't cycle, I mean cycle less but at better times). This number will go up if you include good army movement and lots of scouting. | ||
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Sanitys
Canada126 Posts
The more I think about macro and micro APM tend to start to tie together. If you are attacking and microing your units and have the 80 APM to manage your base but no more, either you leave your army and macro, or you micro and your macro slips. You are rarely ever given the chance to just macro with zero pressure in a game, so although 80 may be sufficient more is obviously going to benefit you. | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
I didn't gather that this was a skill test, but rather a "minimum APM" test. Something like this could be derived with math. Once you have a mathematical approach, then you can make tests and predictions. For instance: 1. You could assign APM Values (or APMVs) to certain tasks. 2. You could assign APMVs to required routines. 3. You could assign tasks and routines frequency values. 4. Everything would be relative to the game clock. 5. Once your have your values assigned, you would simply apply them to a build order. That is one way you could mathematically prove minimum APMs for a build order. I'm not going to do it, but if someone else feels so inclined, go for it! | ||
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Sinborn
United States275 Posts
But yeah, 75 sounds about right for just macro for T. | ||
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EPT
my apm is around 130-140 avg and i still struggle to keep my macro going when their is a lot of battles occurring.
