|
On May 22 2011 11:54 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 11:41 Subversion wrote:On May 22 2011 03:16 Torte de Lini wrote:On May 22 2011 03:09 TicketoHELL wrote:On May 22 2011 03:04 Subversion wrote:and says 'this happens because it is so hard to beat Koreans. Did this piss anyone else off? Nobody said this at all, did they? How arrogant is that? What the fuck. ok you got this wrong read the paragraph again it says that foreign fans not the gom people I always read that foreigners regarded Koreans has very strong and powerful, previously on a level of unbeatable(ness). Nowhere have I seen someone say that people don't want to accept the Code A invite "because its too hard to beat Koreans". That actually hasn't been brought up at all. Besides, all the MLG winners who've been to Korea have achieved Code S. So this dude can f*ck right off. On May 22 2011 10:52 BackSideAttack wrote:On May 22 2011 10:23 TicketoHELL wrote:
Response from playxp by TT1 himself:
"hello mr. chae and to all the korean community at playxp ^_^, i hope someone can translate this message in korean
hi my name is Payam Toghyan and i go by the aka of TT1 in starcraft 2, the main purpose of this message is to talk about why the foreigners rejected the gsl super tournament invitation, first and foremost i want to apologize to anyone who felt offended by our decision, as mr. chae pointed out the main reason the foreigners refused to attend the tournament was because of the decreased prizepool(in the earlier rounds). higher competition level and the travel costs not being covered by gsl this time around(they were covered during the world championship tournament), i am currently on team fnatic and xeris(our team manager) is a good friend of mine but i must agree that the short period of notice that gsl sent out before their invite was not the main issue, i wont say it isnt a problem organization-wise, because it is, however its not something that creates a huge barrier for us, the korean players are obviously alot better than the foreigner players at the moment so our teams and the sponsors most likely felt that it wouldnt have been in their best interest to invest so much money(because travelling to korea is extremely expensive and all the teams have a set budget that they can use annulay), with the risk of getting so little in return, i can only speculate but i know enought about the foreign proscene to say that the risk/reward was most likely not favorable enought for them to make that type of commitment in order to send us to korea, unfortunatly esports is a business and teams have to look at every situation from a economic perspective aswell
another problem was that the GSL Super Tournament would have conflicted with MLG and Dreamhack, a huge chunk of our sponsors market is located in north america and europe so having GSL conflict with other tournaments causes a huge problem because we need to make appearances in those markets aswell, i personally loved my time in korea and i hope i can come back sometime in the future, its very frustrating because as a player i look at every situation from a players perspective, my wish is to compete on the biggest stage with the best players in world however there are many factors beyond my power which block me from achieving that goal, hopefully everything can be resolved in the future so koreans and foreigners would be able to compete(and maybe even practice?) on the same stage more frequently, my personal dream would be to have a foreigner team compete in the gstl alongside all the top korean teams(aswell as have foreigner and koreans compete in individual tournaments more frequently), until that day i will practice even harder in order to reach the same level as the top korean players because as it is the top koreans players are much much better than the top foreign players,
also i never had the opportunity to thank mr park for his hospitality in korea, so thank you very much<3, i especially want to thank gisado(hihi gisado ^_^) for the kindness that he showed us in korea, he made us feel as if we were at home, when i was sick gisado even took time out of his day to take me to the hospital in order to translate everything for me, he even payed for my medication which i felt extremely shy about-_-, the next time we meet i must pay you back by buying you dinner ^_^, also i want to say hi to SIN who i got to know very well aswell in korea, i hope your doing well and thank you for everything, listening to qoo)max and sin cast together is one of the memorys that ill always remember from my time in korea because they were so good : D, how does max have so much energy O_O? you know someones doing a good job when you have no idea what their saying but your still entertained nonetheless, i hope to see you guys cast the gsl together someday
i also want to congratulate nestea on his win in the code s finals and nada on another strong performance(wow nada will remain a gosu for life, what a strong/consistent player, he just keeps getting better and better) and i hope the korean community isnt being too harsh on inca because all the foreign progamers could tell that he wasnt on his A-game and that he has alot more potential than what we saw in the finals, also congratulations to bomber and mvp for their performances in code a, bomber thank you for taking time and helping me practice for my match vs marineking in the world championship, my only regret was that i felt i wasted your time because of my weak performance vs marineking and im sorry for that
last but not least thank you to slayers and mvp for that insane team match in the gstl finals... wow! that was one of the best team matchs that ive ever seen, congratulation to my good friend cella for coaching his team to another championship and congratulations to team mvp for showing all the doubters what they were made off, i love team MVP because of their hilarious introduction video(zzzzzz dongraegu and genius had the best intros ever) and you can tell that their team atmosphere is extremely good because they all have a good time when they're playing, im sure thats one of the reasons why they performed so well(aswell as being extremely talented players), it looked like they pushed each other and didnt want to dissapoint one another, it saddens me to not see DRG in code s because hes one of the top korean zergs in the world, but im sure hell be up there soon enough ^^ the foreign community came up with several nicknames for drg, one of the first ones was "the dong" but alot of fans got angry because thats jaedong's nickname so they then came up with " Don Raegu" which is a playoff on his name which basically means something like the mafia boss of spaghetti LOL
hope to see you guys soon ^_^~~, and i hope someone traslates this message : D "
OMG I have so much respect for TT1 right now. I don't. What the hell, foreigners aren't as good as Koreans? Look at NASL, TSL, even GSL. Even the World Champs went down to an ace match. TT1 needs to speak for himself, maybe he can't beat Koreans, but the likes of IdrA, Jinro, Thorzain, Naniwa, HuK say whats up. I'm so sick of placing these Koreans on a pedestal. Sure it was like that in Brood War, but foreigners have shown that they can compete with them in SC2. And to have one of our own community speaking on behalf of everyone and totally undermining the entire scene like that is fucking atrocious. I'm too pissed, I'm taking a break from this thread. im not saying the skill difference is huge but its enought to have teams thinking its a bad investement to spend 2k out of their pocket so they can have their player competing in the super tournament rather than say an mlg or dreamhack, do u think a top foreigner would have a higher chance of winning the super tournament or an mlg/dreamhack?
Does it have to come down to winning the super tournament? Making the Ro8 is close to the prize purse of winning MLG or taking 3rd at dreamhack. The exposure that a player/team would get for making the Ro8 in the super tournament is much greater than what you'd get for taking anything below 1st at MLG or dreamhack as well.
|
On May 22 2011 10:23 TicketoHELL wrote:
Response from playxp by TT1 himself:
the sponsors most likely felt that it wouldnt have been in their best interest to invest so much money(because travelling to korea is extremely expensive and all the teams have a set budget that they can use annulay), with the risk of getting so little in return, i can only speculate but i know enought about the foreign proscene to say that the risk/reward was most likely not favorable enought for them to make that type of commitment in order to send us to korea, unfortunatly esports is a business and teams have to look at every situation from a economic perspective aswell
I thought MSI would definetly interested in Korean laptop market.
Anyway you definetly have the point that esports sponsors are business man. If foreign team can be supported by some korean business, your goal of competeting in GSTL could be possible.
|
On May 22 2011 11:54 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 11:41 Subversion wrote:On May 22 2011 03:16 Torte de Lini wrote:On May 22 2011 03:09 TicketoHELL wrote:On May 22 2011 03:04 Subversion wrote:and says 'this happens because it is so hard to beat Koreans. Did this piss anyone else off? Nobody said this at all, did they? How arrogant is that? What the fuck. ok you got this wrong read the paragraph again it says that foreign fans not the gom people I always read that foreigners regarded Koreans has very strong and powerful, previously on a level of unbeatable(ness). Nowhere have I seen someone say that people don't want to accept the Code A invite "because its too hard to beat Koreans". That actually hasn't been brought up at all. Besides, all the MLG winners who've been to Korea have achieved Code S. So this dude can f*ck right off. On May 22 2011 10:52 BackSideAttack wrote:On May 22 2011 10:23 TicketoHELL wrote:
Response from playxp by TT1 himself:
"hello mr. chae and to all the korean community at playxp ^_^, i hope someone can translate this message in korean
hi my name is Payam Toghyan and i go by the aka of TT1 in starcraft 2, the main purpose of this message is to talk about why the foreigners rejected the gsl super tournament invitation, first and foremost i want to apologize to anyone who felt offended by our decision, as mr. chae pointed out the main reason the foreigners refused to attend the tournament was because of the decreased prizepool(in the earlier rounds). higher competition level and the travel costs not being covered by gsl this time around(they were covered during the world championship tournament), i am currently on team fnatic and xeris(our team manager) is a good friend of mine but i must agree that the short period of notice that gsl sent out before their invite was not the main issue, i wont say it isnt a problem organization-wise, because it is, however its not something that creates a huge barrier for us, the korean players are obviously alot better than the foreigner players at the moment so our teams and the sponsors most likely felt that it wouldnt have been in their best interest to invest so much money(because travelling to korea is extremely expensive and all the teams have a set budget that they can use annulay), with the risk of getting so little in return, i can only speculate but i know enought about the foreign proscene to say that the risk/reward was most likely not favorable enought for them to make that type of commitment in order to send us to korea, unfortunatly esports is a business and teams have to look at every situation from a economic perspective aswell
another problem was that the GSL Super Tournament would have conflicted with MLG and Dreamhack, a huge chunk of our sponsors market is located in north america and europe so having GSL conflict with other tournaments causes a huge problem because we need to make appearances in those markets aswell, i personally loved my time in korea and i hope i can come back sometime in the future, its very frustrating because as a player i look at every situation from a players perspective, my wish is to compete on the biggest stage with the best players in world however there are many factors beyond my power which block me from achieving that goal, hopefully everything can be resolved in the future so koreans and foreigners would be able to compete(and maybe even practice?) on the same stage more frequently, my personal dream would be to have a foreigner team compete in the gstl alongside all the top korean teams(aswell as have foreigner and koreans compete in individual tournaments more frequently), until that day i will practice even harder in order to reach the same level as the top korean players because as it is the top koreans players are much much better than the top foreign players,
also i never had the opportunity to thank mr park for his hospitality in korea, so thank you very much<3, i especially want to thank gisado(hihi gisado ^_^) for the kindness that he showed us in korea, he made us feel as if we were at home, when i was sick gisado even took time out of his day to take me to the hospital in order to translate everything for me, he even payed for my medication which i felt extremely shy about-_-, the next time we meet i must pay you back by buying you dinner ^_^, also i want to say hi to SIN who i got to know very well aswell in korea, i hope your doing well and thank you for everything, listening to qoo)max and sin cast together is one of the memorys that ill always remember from my time in korea because they were so good : D, how does max have so much energy O_O? you know someones doing a good job when you have no idea what their saying but your still entertained nonetheless, i hope to see you guys cast the gsl together someday
i also want to congratulate nestea on his win in the code s finals and nada on another strong performance(wow nada will remain a gosu for life, what a strong/consistent player, he just keeps getting better and better) and i hope the korean community isnt being too harsh on inca because all the foreign progamers could tell that he wasnt on his A-game and that he has alot more potential than what we saw in the finals, also congratulations to bomber and mvp for their performances in code a, bomber thank you for taking time and helping me practice for my match vs marineking in the world championship, my only regret was that i felt i wasted your time because of my weak performance vs marineking and im sorry for that
last but not least thank you to slayers and mvp for that insane team match in the gstl finals... wow! that was one of the best team matchs that ive ever seen, congratulation to my good friend cella for coaching his team to another championship and congratulations to team mvp for showing all the doubters what they were made off, i love team MVP because of their hilarious introduction video(zzzzzz dongraegu and genius had the best intros ever) and you can tell that their team atmosphere is extremely good because they all have a good time when they're playing, im sure thats one of the reasons why they performed so well(aswell as being extremely talented players), it looked like they pushed each other and didnt want to dissapoint one another, it saddens me to not see DRG in code s because hes one of the top korean zergs in the world, but im sure hell be up there soon enough ^^ the foreign community came up with several nicknames for drg, one of the first ones was "the dong" but alot of fans got angry because thats jaedong's nickname so they then came up with " Don Raegu" which is a playoff on his name which basically means something like the mafia boss of spaghetti LOL
hope to see you guys soon ^_^~~, and i hope someone traslates this message : D "
OMG I have so much respect for TT1 right now. I don't. What the hell, foreigners aren't as good as Koreans? Look at NASL, TSL, even GSL. Even the World Champs went down to an ace match. TT1 needs to speak for himself, maybe he can't beat Koreans, but the likes of IdrA, Jinro, Thorzain, Naniwa, HuK say whats up. I'm so sick of placing these Koreans on a pedestal. Sure it was like that in Brood War, but foreigners have shown that they can compete with them in SC2. And to have one of our own community speaking on behalf of everyone and totally undermining the entire scene like that is fucking atrocious. I'm too pissed, I'm taking a break from this thread. im not saying the skill difference is huge but its enought to have teams thinking its a bad investement to spend 2k out of their pocket so they can have their player competing in the super tournament rather than say an mlg or dreamhack, do u think a top foreigner would have a higher chance of winning the super tournament or an mlg/dreamhack?
Thats a silly argument considering 90% of MLG attendies are foreigners and 90% of super tournament attendies are Korean.
|
On May 22 2011 02:14 Tanatos wrote:![[image loading]](http://pocket.playxp.com/thumbs/400x/1233838?3caf4e844b213ff2) Chae Jung Won, the head of GomTV manage team "Can't understand foreigner's rejection" GSL Super Tournament begins in coming May 23rd with top 64 GSL point rankers. Super tournament has made issues by making competition of both code A and code S players, but unfortunately many foreigners, except Chris 'Huk' Loranger and Jonathan 'Jinro' Walsh, has rejected invitations. Lots of foreign fans complain and criticize about such news, and says 'this happens because it is so hard to beat Koreans.' Also the manager of team Fnatic complained that "the invitaion of Super Tournament from GomTV came out in rush." PlayXP was able to hear opinion of Chae Jung Won, the head of Manage team in GomTV (also main caster of GSL), during presentation of new format change of GSL in May 19th. Mr. Chae said, "We gave the same amount of warning time as we did with World Championship. I do not understand the reason of rejection since they were able to participate in World Championship."
Wow what a bunch of nationalistic crap from the get go there. First off, maybe he can't understand the foreigner's rejection because he didn't read any of the articles/posts on Teamliquid by foreigners and progamers. If he had read them, or had them properly translated, whether or not koreans are beatable has nothing to do with it, which believe me, the nationalistic koreans like him that would say this thing, are in for a surprise when they watch the TSL3 vods. Here are the reasons and arguments I have personally read and heard for why (from casuals and pros) there is less foreign presence in korea.
1. One tournament with 200 or so entrants with no prize money, to qualify for a month long tournament that nets you only 1,500 bucks IF you win. Then after that you have to play in groups for even MORE money. And to do this, you have to live in Korea, and practice all day like you have been, which means you will be flying every single time to go to real live events, that the GSL doesn't make scheduling accomodations for selfishly. Think in the shoes of pro-gamers, before you accuse them of being cowardly in fear of korean pro-gamers as the only reason. That is not the reason. Jinro isn't even the most accomplished international pro-gamer. He is like in the middle somewhere, he's amazing don't get me wrong, just if someone like Morrow or Naniwa were living in Korea full-time for many many months like these pros, they would absolutely dominate.
Korean nationalists needs to be slapped in the face by the fact that the guys who came over were most likely still jet-lagged, not accustomed to the playstyles of korea, and completely out of their element (foreign country, sleeping in a dorm room with multiple people in bunks, no privacy) for like a week to prepare. And they still did great considering all of that, Nestea's ZvZ virginity was stolen, and many a korean pro were beat in both the team matches and the real matches. God TT1 almost gave them all a run for their money, TT-Freakin-1 one of the admittedly lesser-accomplished out of that whole group that went over there for the World Championships.
Either way, this is the most important reason I have seen, feasability both money-wise, sponsorships, etc... Sponsors want your players to be in tournaments as often as possible. If they are in Korea in the GSL, they miss out on tournaments. Sorry, but at this point I do believe the international scene is on par competitively both with viewership and level of play. No one is scared of the Koreans, they are just like the rest of us this time, stop patronizing yourself. Now maybe if a REALLY good BW player transferred over (Flash, JD, Bisu, Stork, Fantasy, etc...) then MAYBE then this argument would hold some water.
2. Let's face it if their tournament was the most competitive, it would be more like the TSL. There was hardly a one-sided match in that WHOLE tournament, there were interesting players and upsets. There were solid players making it all the way to the finals. This seems like once again a loud voice of an organization failing to do everything right, deserving some fair criticism, and not owing up to it. The GSL is NOT the most competitive. The TSL was by a long shot much more competitive, exciting, casted better, and most likely watched by more people outside of korea, than the GSL. And TL did it for free, GSL asks for money, has sponsors out the wazoo that are HUGE names. And yet the TSL still did it better. I think that GOMtv should graciously accept fans criticisms, not combat it. Bad publicity to do this imo. The reason he is saying this, is denial. "Ours is the best!~ Ours is the best!~" Just keep saying that, and subjectively it rings true.
3. As for the warning time, so we either take Xeris' word, or a GOMtv apologist's word. Well Xeris came from the stance of a manager for a team, and with lots of experience with tournaments. GOMtv's vocal outlet was... a commentator who has some ranking up in the business. Xeris does not have a personal stake in decrying the GSL. His was obviously just an honest article, he didn't get PAID or get his name out there to write that, he did it simply because it needed too be addressed. Chae Jung Woon on the other hand has a large monetary incentive to speak out like this, his income. His salary. Hey isn't that the same reason that foreigners going to the GSL lacks feasability for them?
|
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people?
|
As to MLG vs. GSL I would put forth that that GSL has a higher percentage of superior players, while MLG has fewer. I think any player that has won an MLG is easily on par with the average code S player. The best of the GSL are better than the best of the MLG players, in my opinion.
Why are so many non-Koreans reluctant to go compete in the Super tournament, and why are they possibly less than excited about getting a code A invite for winning an MLG event? Its all about the money. Why miss all the other tournaments (and their prize money) to slog through code A and then take a chance at winning a GSL? If you have a family to support, or want to achive a livable income, its too much investment with too small a chance at money. Better to stay and compete in the other tournaments where you have a better chance of winning.
This is just my opinion of course. Only the players themselves can say for sure, one way or the other.
|
TT1 i love you and all but you gotta work on your communication haha. The way you made it sound in your response was that you are the representative of the entire foreigner community and that we all feel that we can't even compete in the first rounds of the tourney. Shouldve used better words like you did in your response with "enough of a skill difference to be a bad investment". Sometimes small things like that can piss people off when your trying to represent them.
and you have to admit but that world lineup that you said he was in denial about...was pretty fricken stacked and i also believe it would have a chance vs the top koreans
|
TLADT24920 Posts
Interesting read, thanks. I do have to agree about the difference in level between GSL and MLG. As mentioned, I think jet lag, having to stay, etc.... are the main reason for the rejections 
|
The biggest problem is geography....and also that a lot of the big players here are a little older and have rl commitments unlike korea where pro gamers can dedicate themselves to gaming. But even so, I doubt if someone like nestea or boxer would be okay with moving to us/europe.
|
On May 22 2011 11:28 Manacakes wrote:
This is dumb, if people in US would dedicate them selves like the koreans did, then we wouldn't have this problem, koreans are simply more dedicated.
Elephant in the room article, although I disagree with it on some points, points out how you are most likely wrong, it seems to me the Korean SC2 players are not all that amazingly dedicated, due to quotes from players that were in training houses on the training regimen, people doing whatever they want to do most of the time, in one of the highest level teams. Korean BW players however are super dedicated yes.
|
I cant believe noone has yet commented on how ridiculously low the prize pool is in code A? surely thats the main reason noone has the motivation to go over there..... from what i'v heard about korean travel costs, winning code A itself barely covers the travel costs? Seems getting a spot in code A for that.... is a worthy prize for placing top 3 in MLG !!!!! oh wait
|
Gom gave approximately 2-3 weeks to get players to Korea for super tournament. It simply wasn't going to happen.
|
On May 22 2011 12:04 Werk wrote:
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people?
the prize $ rankings beg to differ http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./
|
On May 22 2011 12:10 Dawski wrote:
TT1 i love you and all but you gotta work on your communication haha. The way you made it sound in your response was that you are the representative of the entire foreigner community and that we all feel that we can't even compete in the first rounds of the tourney. Shouldve used better words like you did in your response with "enough of a skill difference to be a bad investment". Sometimes small things like that can piss people off when your trying to represent them.
and you have to admit but that world lineup that you said he was in denial about...was pretty fricken stacked and i also believe it would have a chance vs the top koreans
ofc i was, the only players that would be able to compete vs koreans are the ones training in korea, all the other players would never be able to win consistently vs the top players
|
On May 22 2011 12:14 FXOpen wrote:
Gom gave approximately 2-3 weeks to get players to Korea for super tournament. It simply wasn't going to happen.
but everyone got a 2-3 week heads up(not saying its right, its definitely something that gomtv needs to work on) for the world championships aswell, why is it that everyone managed to attend that and no one accepted their invitation to the super tournament?
|
On May 22 2011 12:03 pieman819 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 11:54 TT1 wrote:On May 22 2011 11:41 Subversion wrote:On May 22 2011 03:16 Torte de Lini wrote:On May 22 2011 03:09 TicketoHELL wrote:On May 22 2011 03:04 Subversion wrote:and says 'this happens because it is so hard to beat Koreans. Did this piss anyone else off? Nobody said this at all, did they? How arrogant is that? What the fuck. ok you got this wrong read the paragraph again it says that foreign fans not the gom people I always read that foreigners regarded Koreans has very strong and powerful, previously on a level of unbeatable(ness). Nowhere have I seen someone say that people don't want to accept the Code A invite "because its too hard to beat Koreans". That actually hasn't been brought up at all. Besides, all the MLG winners who've been to Korea have achieved Code S. So this dude can f*ck right off. On May 22 2011 10:52 BackSideAttack wrote:On May 22 2011 10:23 TicketoHELL wrote:
Response from playxp by TT1 himself:
"hello mr. chae and to all the korean community at playxp ^_^, i hope someone can translate this message in korean
hi my name is Payam Toghyan and i go by the aka of TT1 in starcraft 2, the main purpose of this message is to talk about why the foreigners rejected the gsl super tournament invitation, first and foremost i want to apologize to anyone who felt offended by our decision, as mr. chae pointed out the main reason the foreigners refused to attend the tournament was because of the decreased prizepool(in the earlier rounds). higher competition level and the travel costs not being covered by gsl this time around(they were covered during the world championship tournament), i am currently on team fnatic and xeris(our team manager) is a good friend of mine but i must agree that the short period of notice that gsl sent out before their invite was not the main issue, i wont say it isnt a problem organization-wise, because it is, however its not something that creates a huge barrier for us, the korean players are obviously alot better than the foreigner players at the moment so our teams and the sponsors most likely felt that it wouldnt have been in their best interest to invest so much money(because travelling to korea is extremely expensive and all the teams have a set budget that they can use annulay), with the risk of getting so little in return, i can only speculate but i know enought about the foreign proscene to say that the risk/reward was most likely not favorable enought for them to make that type of commitment in order to send us to korea, unfortunatly esports is a business and teams have to look at every situation from a economic perspective aswell
another problem was that the GSL Super Tournament would have conflicted with MLG and Dreamhack, a huge chunk of our sponsors market is located in north america and europe so having GSL conflict with other tournaments causes a huge problem because we need to make appearances in those markets aswell, i personally loved my time in korea and i hope i can come back sometime in the future, its very frustrating because as a player i look at every situation from a players perspective, my wish is to compete on the biggest stage with the best players in world however there are many factors beyond my power which block me from achieving that goal, hopefully everything can be resolved in the future so koreans and foreigners would be able to compete(and maybe even practice?) on the same stage more frequently, my personal dream would be to have a foreigner team compete in the gstl alongside all the top korean teams(aswell as have foreigner and koreans compete in individual tournaments more frequently), until that day i will practice even harder in order to reach the same level as the top korean players because as it is the top koreans players are much much better than the top foreign players,
also i never had the opportunity to thank mr park for his hospitality in korea, so thank you very much<3, i especially want to thank gisado(hihi gisado ^_^) for the kindness that he showed us in korea, he made us feel as if we were at home, when i was sick gisado even took time out of his day to take me to the hospital in order to translate everything for me, he even payed for my medication which i felt extremely shy about-_-, the next time we meet i must pay you back by buying you dinner ^_^, also i want to say hi to SIN who i got to know very well aswell in korea, i hope your doing well and thank you for everything, listening to qoo)max and sin cast together is one of the memorys that ill always remember from my time in korea because they were so good : D, how does max have so much energy O_O? you know someones doing a good job when you have no idea what their saying but your still entertained nonetheless, i hope to see you guys cast the gsl together someday
i also want to congratulate nestea on his win in the code s finals and nada on another strong performance(wow nada will remain a gosu for life, what a strong/consistent player, he just keeps getting better and better) and i hope the korean community isnt being too harsh on inca because all the foreign progamers could tell that he wasnt on his A-game and that he has alot more potential than what we saw in the finals, also congratulations to bomber and mvp for their performances in code a, bomber thank you for taking time and helping me practice for my match vs marineking in the world championship, my only regret was that i felt i wasted your time because of my weak performance vs marineking and im sorry for that
last but not least thank you to slayers and mvp for that insane team match in the gstl finals... wow! that was one of the best team matchs that ive ever seen, congratulation to my good friend cella for coaching his team to another championship and congratulations to team mvp for showing all the doubters what they were made off, i love team MVP because of their hilarious introduction video(zzzzzz dongraegu and genius had the best intros ever) and you can tell that their team atmosphere is extremely good because they all have a good time when they're playing, im sure thats one of the reasons why they performed so well(aswell as being extremely talented players), it looked like they pushed each other and didnt want to dissapoint one another, it saddens me to not see DRG in code s because hes one of the top korean zergs in the world, but im sure hell be up there soon enough ^^ the foreign community came up with several nicknames for drg, one of the first ones was "the dong" but alot of fans got angry because thats jaedong's nickname so they then came up with " Don Raegu" which is a playoff on his name which basically means something like the mafia boss of spaghetti LOL
hope to see you guys soon ^_^~~, and i hope someone traslates this message : D "
OMG I have so much respect for TT1 right now. I don't. What the hell, foreigners aren't as good as Koreans? Look at NASL, TSL, even GSL. Even the World Champs went down to an ace match. TT1 needs to speak for himself, maybe he can't beat Koreans, but the likes of IdrA, Jinro, Thorzain, Naniwa, HuK say whats up. I'm so sick of placing these Koreans on a pedestal. Sure it was like that in Brood War, but foreigners have shown that they can compete with them in SC2. And to have one of our own community speaking on behalf of everyone and totally undermining the entire scene like that is fucking atrocious. I'm too pissed, I'm taking a break from this thread. im not saying the skill difference is huge but its enought to have teams thinking its a bad investement to spend 2k out of their pocket so they can have their player competing in the super tournament rather than say an mlg or dreamhack, do u think a top foreigner would have a higher chance of winning the super tournament or an mlg/dreamhack? Thats a silly argument considering 90% of MLG attendies are foreigners and 90% of super tournament attendies are Korean.
Why is that a silly argument? His point still stands: sponsors don't think it's the best use of the funds because of lower success rate.
|
The biggest obstacle here is the Earnings Potential for any and all players playing in Korea versus outside Korea, in combination with the various Costs and Risk a player assumes upon travelings to Korea. From a competitive perspective, Korea is probably one of, if not the best, places to test you skills in a live tournament setting. But the amount of money you stand to gain in relation to the immediate costs you incur upon traveling and subsequently take on from losing the potential winnings of foreign tournaments is still far too high in favor of the Risk.
I think that is the biggest and universal issue present here. GOM is doing an AMAZING job overall, but the risk for foreign players is way too high. Either the connectivity needs to improve between Korea and the rest of the world, or GOM would need to structure their tournaments such that it would be more conducive for a foreign pro to participate in the GSL, without completely forsaking foreign tournaments.
I can only assume the reverse is kind of true for Korean players. They must be frustrated as hell seeing the giant prize pools around the world, but because of travel cost/latency they can not consistently participate globally. Instead purely relying on invites to at least cover some of the costs for them to play abroad.
|
On May 22 2011 12:21 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 12:14 FXOpen wrote:
Gom gave approximately 2-3 weeks to get players to Korea for super tournament. It simply wasn't going to happen. but everyone got a 2-3 week heads up(not saying its right, its definitely something that gomtv needs to work on) for the world championships aswell, why is it that everyone managed to attend that and no one accepted their invitation to the super tournament?
Perhaps because there are more events closer to home now. Starcraft leagues and tournaments popping up everywhere :D
|
On May 22 2011 12:14 FXOpen wrote:
Gom gave approximately 2-3 weeks to get players to Korea for super tournament. It simply wasn't going to happen.
Surely the next super tournament teams will have more of a heads up and will have more time to better plan trips to korea for players.
|
On May 22 2011 11:41 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 03:16 Torte de Lini wrote:On May 22 2011 03:09 TicketoHELL wrote:On May 22 2011 03:04 Subversion wrote:and says 'this happens because it is so hard to beat Koreans. Did this piss anyone else off? Nobody said this at all, did they? How arrogant is that? What the fuck. ok you got this wrong read the paragraph again it says that foreign fans not the gom people I always read that foreigners regarded Koreans has very strong and powerful, previously on a level of unbeatable(ness). Nowhere have I seen someone say that people don't want to accept the Code A invite "because its too hard to beat Koreans". That actually hasn't been brought up at all. Besides, all the MLG winners who've been to Korea have achieved Code S. So this dude can f*ck right off. Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 10:52 BackSideAttack wrote:On May 22 2011 10:23 TicketoHELL wrote:
Response from playxp by TT1 himself:
"hello mr. chae and to all the korean community at playxp ^_^, i hope someone can translate this message in korean
hi my name is Payam Toghyan and i go by the aka of TT1 in starcraft 2, the main purpose of this message is to talk about why the foreigners rejected the gsl super tournament invitation, first and foremost i want to apologize to anyone who felt offended by our decision, as mr. chae pointed out the main reason the foreigners refused to attend the tournament was because of the decreased prizepool(in the earlier rounds). higher competition level and the travel costs not being covered by gsl this time around(they were covered during the world championship tournament), i am currently on team fnatic and xeris(our team manager) is a good friend of mine but i must agree that the short period of notice that gsl sent out before their invite was not the main issue, i wont say it isnt a problem organization-wise, because it is, however its not something that creates a huge barrier for us, the korean players are obviously alot better than the foreigner players at the moment so our teams and the sponsors most likely felt that it wouldnt have been in their best interest to invest so much money(because travelling to korea is extremely expensive and all the teams have a set budget that they can use annulay), with the risk of getting so little in return, i can only speculate but i know enought about the foreign proscene to say that the risk/reward was most likely not favorable enought for them to make that type of commitment in order to send us to korea, unfortunatly esports is a business and teams have to look at every situation from a economic perspective aswell
another problem was that the GSL Super Tournament would have conflicted with MLG and Dreamhack, a huge chunk of our sponsors market is located in north america and europe so having GSL conflict with other tournaments causes a huge problem because we need to make appearances in those markets aswell, i personally loved my time in korea and i hope i can come back sometime in the future, its very frustrating because as a player i look at every situation from a players perspective, my wish is to compete on the biggest stage with the best players in world however there are many factors beyond my power which block me from achieving that goal, hopefully everything can be resolved in the future so koreans and foreigners would be able to compete(and maybe even practice?) on the same stage more frequently, my personal dream would be to have a foreigner team compete in the gstl alongside all the top korean teams(aswell as have foreigner and koreans compete in individual tournaments more frequently), until that day i will practice even harder in order to reach the same level as the top korean players because as it is the top koreans players are much much better than the top foreign players,
also i never had the opportunity to thank mr park for his hospitality in korea, so thank you very much<3, i especially want to thank gisado(hihi gisado ^_^) for the kindness that he showed us in korea, he made us feel as if we were at home, when i was sick gisado even took time out of his day to take me to the hospital in order to translate everything for me, he even payed for my medication which i felt extremely shy about-_-, the next time we meet i must pay you back by buying you dinner ^_^, also i want to say hi to SIN who i got to know very well aswell in korea, i hope your doing well and thank you for everything, listening to qoo)max and sin cast together is one of the memorys that ill always remember from my time in korea because they were so good : D, how does max have so much energy O_O? you know someones doing a good job when you have no idea what their saying but your still entertained nonetheless, i hope to see you guys cast the gsl together someday
i also want to congratulate nestea on his win in the code s finals and nada on another strong performance(wow nada will remain a gosu for life, what a strong/consistent player, he just keeps getting better and better) and i hope the korean community isnt being too harsh on inca because all the foreign progamers could tell that he wasnt on his A-game and that he has alot more potential than what we saw in the finals, also congratulations to bomber and mvp for their performances in code a, bomber thank you for taking time and helping me practice for my match vs marineking in the world championship, my only regret was that i felt i wasted your time because of my weak performance vs marineking and im sorry for that
last but not least thank you to slayers and mvp for that insane team match in the gstl finals... wow! that was one of the best team matchs that ive ever seen, congratulation to my good friend cella for coaching his team to another championship and congratulations to team mvp for showing all the doubters what they were made off, i love team MVP because of their hilarious introduction video(zzzzzz dongraegu and genius had the best intros ever) and you can tell that their team atmosphere is extremely good because they all have a good time when they're playing, im sure thats one of the reasons why they performed so well(aswell as being extremely talented players), it looked like they pushed each other and didnt want to dissapoint one another, it saddens me to not see DRG in code s because hes one of the top korean zergs in the world, but im sure hell be up there soon enough ^^ the foreign community came up with several nicknames for drg, one of the first ones was "the dong" but alot of fans got angry because thats jaedong's nickname so they then came up with " Don Raegu" which is a playoff on his name which basically means something like the mafia boss of spaghetti LOL
hope to see you guys soon ^_^~~, and i hope someone traslates this message : D "
OMG I have so much respect for TT1 right now. I don't. What the hell, foreigners aren't as good as Koreans? Look at NASL, TSL, even GSL. Even the World Champs went down to an ace match. TT1 needs to speak for himself, maybe he can't beat Koreans, but the likes of IdrA, Jinro, Thorzain, Naniwa, HuK say whats up. I'm so sick of placing these Koreans on a pedestal. Sure it was like that in Brood War, but foreigners have shown that they can compete with them in SC2. And to have one of our own community speaking on behalf of everyone and totally undermining the entire scene like that is fucking atrocious. I'm too pissed, I'm taking a break from this thread.
Before you get pissed maybe you should have taken the time to read my previous post instead of making brash assumptions without any substantiation. Here I'll be nice and relink it to you.
How did the Koreans "barely" win WC? If i recall correctly, when the games actually mattered for money, the Koreans wiped the floor with the foreigners. Matter of fact, Dimaga was the only foreigner to beat a Korean in first round (partially attributed to the fact that the Koreans took the show-match so un-seriously that Nestea had to reveal his build in the ace match, thus causing his downfall in game 3 of the actual tournament), before he was promptly eliminated by a Korean in the second round (San 3-1). I hope your not basing your claim on the show match portion, where it was obvious the Koreans did not take it seriously, as is substantiated by any of the interviews by BOTH Koreans and foreigners. Hell, San even got CARRIERS......
As of right now, the Korean scene is better than the foreign scene, because they care more, thus they have every reason to brag. Every major lan tournament that involved Koreans was won by a Korean.
1. IEM was swept by Ace, Moon, and Squirtle.
2. Dreamhack was won my MC
3. Coppenhagan was stomped by MC
4. Hardcore Gamers Lan was won by Ace
5. Blizzcon was won by Genius
Now when you look at online tournaments, where lag is obviously an issue. When you practice 12 hours a day under one set of settings, even the most subtle changes are gonna affect your play dramatically. And according to Jinro, NA to KR is considered "high latency". Additionally the unfavorable lag was exacerbated by the earthquake. Idra even admitted the lag was unplayable, thus he refused to play cross server. ( Don't say its because he's cocky, now that he competes in the U.S. it no longer behooves him to blindly hype Koreans to highlight his own skill)
1. In NASL there's a Korean in the top 4 of every group, with 3 of the groups having a Korean in the top 2. Actually the only Koreans that are not top 4 right is Rainbow and Zenio. That means 8/10 Koreans are TOP 4 in their respective groups. Considering there's 10 people per group and only 2 Koreans in each group, thats pretty good. Also the Koreans in NASL are NOT the top Koreans.
2. A Korean has won the last 3 FXOPENs. Matter of fact, EVERY finalist of the last 3 FXOPENS have also been Korean.
3. SlayersMMA recently won the All 4 One Invitational
If this doesn't prove that right now, the Koreans's dedication and focus on Starcraft as a legitimate sport, makes them better. Then I don't what will.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
