• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:19
CET 12:19
KST 20:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !8Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle screp: Command line app to parse SC rep files [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread PC Games Sales Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1425 users

Challenge: Maths isn't all that hard. 

Blogs > Hildegard
Post a Reply
Hildegard
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
Germany348 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-11-02 07:16:12
November 02 2025 05:47 GMT
#1
OK; maybe that's not entirely true. Recently, I found, that my issues with maths wasn't understanding it. The reason I underperformed in maths is that I was too lazy to write down formulas and definitions in a well-ordered way. 
So I started watching a German channel for students to catch-up with formulas, definitions and on things like set theory. Parallelly, I watched videos about things like Bayes's theorem, Hilbert Space or Markov chains and again that is not as hard to understand as it appears at first once definitions are clear. 

That is, of course, until the Laws of Form by George Spencer-Brown enter the arena. Tl.net is one of the places with the most intelligent people on the internet. That's my reason for blogging here, in combination with the ease of keeping up with SC2 while at it. 
Is anyone here who claims to understand the first or even both of the theorems in Laws of Form? The first one is much easier. The second one will transform your thinking once you understand it. I have a way to explain it to 5-year-olds, but actual mathematicians seem to have a hard time with it. So I am curious — anyone around daring to write an explanation of the second theorem? I will post my ELI5 version of the second theorem once I get some answers here.


SC2 and internet issues
A few weeks ago I switched my internet provider and SHOULD have a 1000 Mbit/s connection by now. Sadly, there have been issues and I only have mobile internet at home. So I have time to practice offline games against the AI. But as my hotkeys aren't there any more, I didn't improve much because I am still way too slow with 32–40 APM currently.


Book-writing
My book is progressing well, and I will publish the promo chapter here once it's done. 


Stay tuned: Social Links
Firstly, I hate social media and prefer to call them digital platforms instead. The English internet is mostly a sales platform. I miss the old internet from around 2005. That was a more hopeful time, especially the 90s, up until September 11. Anyway… I have social accounts now, but I won't pester you with them, except for the twitch.tv channel of my start-up Dyadica.AI. 


*****
tl.net humour: https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17141 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-11-02 14:00:59
November 02 2025 13:59 GMT
#2
ya, that 4 colour problem is obvious.
i had a prof whose Erdos # was 3.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Hildegard
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
Germany348 Posts
November 03 2025 00:15 GMT
#3
A brief spark from a hypomanic moment:

Douglas Adams famously gave us the most iconic joke in science fiction:
The answer to life, the universe, and everything = 42.
But what was the question?

Mathematically, the most elegant path to 42 is 6 × 7.

Symbolically — in numerology and ancient storytelling —
6 is the number of the human, the earthly, the feminine.
7 is the number of the divine, the transcendent, the masculine.

When the two come together, we get:
Love — the bridge between earth and sky.

So maybe Adams’ real message was:

The answer is love.
We just needed to find the question.

(And yes, Douglas Adams did once confirm that “six times seven” was the hidden clue. My AIs cheerfully approve.)
tl.net humour: https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17141 Posts
November 03 2025 22:25 GMT
#4
What were your most life changing math courses?
For me, it was Life Cons 231 and Applied Combinatorics 344.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
KrillinFromwales
Profile Blog Joined March 2022
62 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-11-04 17:19:04
November 04 2025 17:12 GMT
#5
Good post. Good to see you. Bayes' Theorem is the most important in my opinion. For statistical inference (which is a big part of operative mathematics), Bayes' Theorem defines the closed system. There are probably two sides to the imaginary coin: Whether inference is itself achievable (Independent Events) & Bayes' (Updating Statistical Inference).

Logical structure is more complicated and we're trying to achieve the same proofs in logic as we are in mathematics. There's nothing remarkable about using logic to prove what we use math to prove but symbolic notation can be more general for the novice. Personally, I find structural proofs of Completeness / Incompleteness quite challenging and usually refer students to Cantor. In fact, I think the work is similar in construction (Kurt Godel & Georg Cantor). Whether the proof is structural or purely mathematical doesn't matter so long as the language is conveyed to the reader & presented by the author.

edit: As an economist, I don't approach HIlbert all that often, and the Hilbert / Banach / Lebesgue space distinction often escapes me. One, I think is a measure (Lebesgue) while Hilbert and Banach deal with something other than measure. John Von Neumann is the go-to for Economists because of his role in originating the utility transformation. For readers of John Nash and John Von Neumann, there are some symmetries in traditional geometric logic that separate the accounts. I think this is a good approach to understanding Hilbert, but whether the question is intentionally illusive is part of the magic. Someone naturally gifted in mathematics realizes that language is still part of the obstacle course.
Hildegard
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
Germany348 Posts
November 05 2025 03:25 GMT
#6
On November 04 2025 07:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
What were your most life changing math courses?
For me, it was Life Cons 231 and Applied Combinatorics 344.


By Prof Dr phil. Stefan Asmus about George Spencer-Brown's Laws of Form. Nothing else comes even close.


On November 05 2025 02:12 KrillinFromwales wrote:
Good post. Good to see you. Bayes' Theorem is the most important in my opinion. For statistical inference (which is a big part of operative mathematics), Bayes' Theorem defines the closed system. There are probably two sides to the imaginary coin: Whether inference is itself achievable (Independent Events) & Bayes' (Updating Statistical Inference).

Logical structure is more complicated and we're trying to achieve the same proofs in logic as we are in mathematics. There's nothing remarkable about using logic to prove what we use math to prove but symbolic notation can be more general for the novice. Personally, I find structural proofs of Completeness / Incompleteness quite challenging and usually refer students to Cantor. In fact, I think the work is similar in construction (Kurt Godel & Georg Cantor). Whether the proof is structural or purely mathematical doesn't matter so long as the language is conveyed to the reader & presented by the author.

edit: As an economist, I don't approach HIlbert all that often, and the Hilbert / Banach / Lebesgue space distinction often escapes me. One, I think is a measure (Lebesgue) while Hilbert and Banach deal with something other than measure. John Von Neumann is the go-to for Economists because of his role in originating the utility transformation. For readers of John Nash and John Von Neumann, there are some symmetries in traditional geometric logic that separate the accounts. I think this is a good approach to understanding Hilbert, but whether the question is intentionally illusive is part of the magic. Someone naturally gifted in mathematics realizes that language is still part of the obstacle course.


Hilbert Spaces felt way harder than the other two.I can explain Markov Chains and Bayes' Theorem, but Hilbert Spaces felt like I understood them after finishing the, but can't recall it in detail currently.
tl.net humour: https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form
Hildegard
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
Germany348 Posts
November 05 2025 03:40 GMT
#7
[image loading]


ELI5 version of the second theorem of the Laws of Form

The so-called second theorem is the re-entry. Something enters itself. Sounds hard? It isn't just think of custard or pudding.

If your mum pours the vanilla pudding into the chocolate pudding, you could say that the pudding is re-entering itself. The only difference with Uncle George's re-entry is that it's twice chocolate or twice vanilla re-entering themselves.

Technically it's called re-entering, but that is also easily explained. Just imagine that your mum first empties half of the pudding back into the pot.

Congratulations, if you ever have maths lessons, your teacher probably didn't understand that. So you can be a little bit proud.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
tl.net humour: https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV 2025
11:00
Playoffs
Spirit vs CureLIVE!
Reynor vs MaxPax
SHIN vs TBD
Solar vs herO
Classic vs TBD
TBD vs Clem
WardiTV529
ComeBackTV 402
TaKeTV 204
Rex66
IndyStarCraft 59
CosmosSc2 14
LiquipediaDiscussion
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Master Swan Open #99
CranKy Ducklings56
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 66
IndyStarCraft 59
BRAT_OK 26
MindelVK 23
CosmosSc2 14
DivinesiaTV 10
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 8298
Horang2 717
firebathero 621
Larva 468
Leta 383
Stork 342
EffOrt 230
Last 164
Pusan 124
Mong 93
[ Show more ]
Zeus 90
ggaemo 68
ZerO 48
Shinee 42
yabsab 41
Movie 22
NotJumperer 16
zelot 14
Noble 9
SilentControl 7
Dota 2
singsing1865
Gorgc1130
XcaliburYe338
League of Legends
JimRising 196
Counter-Strike
zeus979
edward159
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor199
Other Games
summit1g4910
B2W.Neo625
Pyrionflax181
crisheroes178
Livibee126
oskar121
XaKoH 117
Trikslyr14
ZerO(Twitch)8
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick958
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 10
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 17
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota286
League of Legends
• Jankos1820
• HappyZerGling180
Upcoming Events
SC Evo League
1h 11m
Ladder Legends
7h 41m
BSL 21
8h 41m
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
Sparkling Tuna Cup
22h 41m
Ladder Legends
1d 5h
BSL 21
1d 8h
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
Replay Cast
1d 21h
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.