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On May 22 2011 08:43 mango_destroyer wrote:
Of course there will be rejections. Did everyone forget what happened in the actual tournament at the GSL WC? All the foreigners lost in first round except Dimaga.
No offense to any of the foreigners that competed in the GSL WC, but I don't think they were the best representation the non-korean scene has.
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On May 22 2011 09:24 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 09:21 Timerly wrote:
It's not about thinking you can be good or believing in you or whatever Hollywood nonsense you guys come up with. It's about committing to two alternatives: doing well and staying because of it = changing your whole life or not doing so well, going home without any net gain. Going there for a month to get some cash and then getting out? It's not really an option man.
Sometimes I really question whether some of you guys have had to make any real life decisions yet. Dude, you get no gain if you can`t get past 2 rounds. You don`t even need need to win the whole thing to make more money than you would in a major foreigner tournament. Isn`t the point of sponsors is to pay for the expenses? If not then foreign scene needs a ton of work.
If you could easily find sponsors to pay for a one month trip to a pretty expensive city on the other side of the world we wouldn't have this discussion.
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Until there is an actual scene in Korea beyond this one series of tournaments, few foreigners will take the risk to go to Korea. You get more chances to earn money elsewhere for less of a time commitment. Sure GSL is a big prize, but you could play dozens of tournaments in the same time frame it takes to get through Code S and make a healthy wage doing it.
If GOM wants to find a way to bring foreigners to Korea, they need to look to CraftCUPs, ESLs, Zotacs, and all these other 'small time' tournaments to give players competitions to do during the off times they aren't trying to qualify or playing in Code A.
There is no 'scene' in Korea. It's just a one man show GOM has.
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Oh wow, GOMtv really doesn't understand foreigners' problem with going to Korea at all. No mention of the sacrifice of not playing any other tournament for a month, or the various problems of training on a new server. Very disappointing.
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On May 22 2011 09:26 starcraft911 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 08:43 mango_destroyer wrote:
Of course there will be rejections. Did everyone forget what happened in the actual tournament at the GSL WC? All the foreigners lost in first round except Dimaga. No offense to any of the foreigners that competed in the GSL WC, but I don't think they were the best representation the non-korean scene has.
Dimaga and Morrow were two of the best zergs EU has to offer. Huk and Jinro were Code S foreigners. Sen is the best Non Korean Asian Zerg. Moonglade is the top Zerg on the Sea server. Any better players couldn't have been much better if at all.
If you want to say that the foreigners weren't the best, an argument could be made that not all the best Koreans were there. Anypro/San/Nada out of practice are not on the same level as MVP, MC, and Nestea. There are plenty of better Koreans, namely Bomber, MMA, Alicia, DongRaeGu..
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On May 22 2011 09:34 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 09:26 starcraft911 wrote:On May 22 2011 08:43 mango_destroyer wrote:
Of course there will be rejections. Did everyone forget what happened in the actual tournament at the GSL WC? All the foreigners lost in first round except Dimaga. No offense to any of the foreigners that competed in the GSL WC, but I don't think they were the best representation the non-korean scene has. Dimaga and Morrow were two of the best zergs EU has to offer. Huk and Jinro were Code S foreigners. Sen is the best Non Korean Asian Zerg. Moonglade is the top Zerg on the Sea server. Any better players couldn't have been much better if at all. If you want to say that the foreigners weren't the best, an argument could be made that not all the best Koreans were there. Anypro/San/Nada out of practice are not on the same level as MVP, MC, and Nestea. There are plenty of better Koreans, namely Bomber, MMA, Alicia, DongRaeGu..
The problem was the line-up, it was quite heavy with zergs, and zerg was a little bit up against protoss because of the strategies that were used. But now, it's not the same situation anymore.
But yeah they were the best at this moment and they still the best actually i think, you just have to add Thorzain, Naniwa, Kas, Idra and Select.
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On May 22 2011 09:39 Samhax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 09:34 BackSideAttack wrote:On May 22 2011 09:26 starcraft911 wrote:On May 22 2011 08:43 mango_destroyer wrote:
Of course there will be rejections. Did everyone forget what happened in the actual tournament at the GSL WC? All the foreigners lost in first round except Dimaga. No offense to any of the foreigners that competed in the GSL WC, but I don't think they were the best representation the non-korean scene has. Dimaga and Morrow were two of the best zergs EU has to offer. Huk and Jinro were Code S foreigners. Sen is the best Non Korean Asian Zerg. Moonglade is the top Zerg on the Sea server. Any better players couldn't have been much better if at all. If you want to say that the foreigners weren't the best, an argument could be made that not all the best Koreans were there. Anypro/San/Nada out of practice are not on the same level as MVP, MC, and Nestea. There are plenty of better Koreans, namely Bomber, MMA, Alicia, DongRaeGu.. The problem was the line-up, it was quite heavy with zergs, and zerg was a little bit up against protoss because of the strategies that were used. But now, it's not the same situation anymore. But yeah they were the best at this moment and they still the best actually i think, you just have to add Thorzain, Naniwa, Kas, Idra and Select.
I agree, but, only 2 zergs played Korean Protosses. Morrow vs MC was won because MC is clearly the better player, not because of racial problems. Dimaga vs San could be the only game that could be attributed to racial issue. But even that game was partly lost due to Dimaga's failure to execute his strategies (banneling drops targeting the wrong stuff) and bad decision-making (attacking into San's concave)
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They really should consider it sponsorship wise. Arnt the sponsors paying them enough? Even so you are going to be casted live which means your sponsor gets live advertisement to the whole world (if they wear their logo or what ever). Things like MLG hardly show the players... and even so even you get aired its a very small distinct figure that you cant see the sponsorship logo on the uniform. If you compare GSL to MLG i believe that GOM gets more viewers (correct me if i am wrong as i am guessing this). More viewers helps sponsors??? But if they don't get paid.. then sukz to be them..
And the prize pool from GSL? Not big enough? i think $90k or what ever is quite huge... All players play to win. Don't EU players play to win?
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On May 22 2011 08:31 pieman819 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 08:21 s4life wrote:On May 22 2011 07:45 namedplayer wrote:On May 22 2011 07:37 425kid wrote:
Lol @ this thread. Korea>>>>>>>foreign scene ainec. If there was a foreigner on the level of nestea, mc, mvp, bomber etc, then they would go to korea for the chance to win 80k a month. MC and Nestea have made over 200k just from gsl since september. Even guys like Thewind and anypro have made more in prize money than every foreigner who hasnt gone to korea This. If you have enough skill, theres no reason to refuse. 92k for a month? Hell yeah! take that and come back to your country.. if you're not, you don't have to go to Korea. The game is too volatile to actually guarantee anyone who considers himself the best to go and simply win... you'd have to stay there for at least a year to get an even field with the koreans and have a chance. Even Iron -- who was considered the best P since the beta -- took 3 seasons to win his first GSL. Tester/Trickster or Genius were considered the best tosses in beta/early seasons probably all the way up to when MC won actually.
Not really, MC was beating the shit out of people in online tournaments.. he just wasn't being lucky enough to win when it counted. Many people thought of him to be the best P.
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I like how people are trying to use extreme examples to disprove Mr. Chae's claims about GSL being at a higher level than MLG seeding-wise; such as pointing out Inca vs Naniwa. Of course there will always be a few exceptions. You're pointing out one of the best in EU atm, and comparing it to one of the bottom to middle Code S players.
Mr. Chae is talking about the league as a whole. And there is definitely no question that GSL, or korean players in general are at the moment, at level or few higher than the rest of world.
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On May 22 2011 09:52 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 08:31 pieman819 wrote:On May 22 2011 08:21 s4life wrote:On May 22 2011 07:45 namedplayer wrote:On May 22 2011 07:37 425kid wrote:
Lol @ this thread. Korea>>>>>>>foreign scene ainec. If there was a foreigner on the level of nestea, mc, mvp, bomber etc, then they would go to korea for the chance to win 80k a month. MC and Nestea have made over 200k just from gsl since september. Even guys like Thewind and anypro have made more in prize money than every foreigner who hasnt gone to korea This. If you have enough skill, theres no reason to refuse. 92k for a month? Hell yeah! take that and come back to your country.. if you're not, you don't have to go to Korea. The game is too volatile to actually guarantee anyone who considers himself the best to go and simply win... you'd have to stay there for at least a year to get an even field with the koreans and have a chance. Even Iron -- who was considered the best P since the beta -- took 3 seasons to win his first GSL. Tester/Trickster or Genius were considered the best tosses in beta/early seasons probably all the way up to when MC won actually. Not really, MC was beating the shit out of people in online tournaments.. he just wasn't being lucky enough to win when it counted. Many people thought of him to be the best P.
No, he was god damn awful.
Remember the games in GSL 2 vs nestea?
Or GSL 1 vs Polt?
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On May 22 2011 02:18 Lms0 wrote:Well, I think it's mainly the fact that you have to stay there for 1 month that is the problem for foreigner's 
For the super tournament i understand that i guess, although its not like you have to stay there if you get knocked out and if you dont then obviously its worth it to stay.
But for regular seasons and the exchange program, they have changed the format to be much more appealing to foreigners. First of all most people didnt read the exchange announcement closely the winner of mlg gets a direct seed into code s, and obviously that speaks for itself totally worth it if you dont have prior commitments like wife or job in your home country and its all expenses paid as well so you dont have to worry about spending lots of money while your there.
and then the next top 3 (or is it 4) get seeds into code a, they have changed the format now where code a round of 32 and round of 16 happen for the period of 4-5 days (depending on your groups 5 days max though) so you will know if you have a shot at the up and down matches within 4-5 days or if youve been eliminated you can just go home, it was an all expenses paid trip and 4-5 days of your time to get a shot at code s, if yoou dont make it less than a week isnt a big deal. If you do then yoou stay there for another 2 weeks and get a shot to be in the most prestigious tournament in the world (code s) sounds like a sweet deal to me.
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On May 22 2011 09:34 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 09:26 starcraft911 wrote:On May 22 2011 08:43 mango_destroyer wrote:
Of course there will be rejections. Did everyone forget what happened in the actual tournament at the GSL WC? All the foreigners lost in first round except Dimaga. No offense to any of the foreigners that competed in the GSL WC, but I don't think they were the best representation the non-korean scene has. Dimaga and Morrow were two of the best zergs EU has to offer. Huk and Jinro were Code S foreigners. Sen is the best Non Korean Asian Zerg. Moonglade is the top Zerg on the Sea server. Any better players couldn't have been much better if at all. If you want to say that the foreigners weren't the best, an argument could be made that not all the best Koreans were there. Anypro/San/Nada out of practice are not on the same level as MVP, MC, and Nestea. There are plenty of better Koreans, namely Bomber, MMA, Alicia, DongRaeGu..
I dont agree with nada he has made it to the round of 8 at least in every season of GSL that is pretty fucking impressive if you ask me but yea i really dont think foreigners are on the same level overall and not even really that close unless your like huk and jinro and you practice like the koreans do. I mean sure foreigners that live in the west can take games of koreans here and there of course but i dont think many of them would make it that far in the GSL at the moment heck even the ones with the excellent practice environment like huk and jinro are failing to do well as of recent as time goes on the koreans will get further and further ahead unless there are some changes in NA. Ah well its kind of cool to have an elite country of gamers who are better than everyone else.
Id love to see a foreigner go over there and rip it up, i agree with what Mr. Chae had to say though its not like the winner of MLG is the same or anywhere near the same as the winner of a GSL.
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On May 22 2011 08:33 Vista wrote:
I'm pretty sure what he meant by GSL and MLG being on different levels is that seeding someone into MLG is seeding them into a single tournament that lasts a weekend, while seeding someone into Code S is at least a 6 week commitment
Have you ever watched a GSL, it only ever lasts at most 3 weeks, i dont understand how thats a six week commitment, only 2 players make it to the finals so for those 2 players its a 3 week commitment. I hate it when people exxagerate to try and prove a point =/
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Response from playxp by TT1 himself:
"hello mr. chae and to all the korean community at playxp ^_^, i hope someone can translate this message in korean
hi my name is Payam Toghyan and i go by the aka of TT1 in starcraft 2, the main purpose of this message is to talk about why the foreigners rejected the gsl super tournament invitation, first and foremost i want to apologize to anyone who felt offended by our decision, as mr. chae pointed out the main reason the foreigners refused to attend the tournament was because of the decreased prizepool(in the earlier rounds). higher competition level and the travel costs not being covered by gsl this time around(they were covered during the world championship tournament), i am currently on team fnatic and xeris(our team manager) is a good friend of mine but i must agree that the short period of notice that gsl sent out before their invite was not the main issue, i wont say it isnt a problem organization-wise, because it is, however its not something that creates a huge barrier for us, the korean players are obviously alot better than the foreigner players at the moment so our teams and the sponsors most likely felt that it wouldnt have been in their best interest to invest so much money(because travelling to korea is extremely expensive and all the teams have a set budget that they can use annulay), with the risk of getting so little in return, i can only speculate but i know enought about the foreign proscene to say that the risk/reward was most likely not favorable enought for them to make that type of commitment in order to send us to korea, unfortunatly esports is a business and teams have to look at every situation from a economic perspective aswell
another problem was that the GSL Super Tournament would have conflicted with MLG and Dreamhack, a huge chunk of our sponsors market is located in north america and europe so having GSL conflict with other tournaments causes a huge problem because we need to make appearances in those markets aswell, i personally loved my time in korea and i hope i can come back sometime in the future, its very frustrating because as a player i look at every situation from a players perspective, my wish is to compete on the biggest stage with the best players in world however there are many factors beyond my power which block me from achieving that goal, hopefully everything can be resolved in the future so koreans and foreigners would be able to compete(and maybe even practice?) on the same stage more frequently, my personal dream would be to have a foreigner team compete in the gstl alongside all the top korean teams(aswell as have foreigner and koreans compete in individual tournaments more frequently), until that day i will practice even harder in order to reach the same level as the top korean players because as it is the top koreans players are much much better than the top foreign players,
also i never had the opportunity to thank mr park for his hospitality in korea, so thank you very much<3, i especially want to thank gisado(hihi gisado ^_^) for the kindness that he showed us in korea, he made us feel as if we were at home, when i was sick gisado even took time out of his day to take me to the hospital in order to translate everything for me, he even payed for my medication which i felt extremely shy about-_-, the next time we meet i must pay you back by buying you dinner ^_^, also i want to say hi to SIN who i got to know very well aswell in korea, i hope your doing well and thank you for everything, listening to qoo)max and sin cast together is one of the memorys that ill always remember from my time in korea because they were so good : D, how does max have so much energy O_O? you know someones doing a good job when you have no idea what their saying but your still entertained nonetheless, i hope to see you guys cast the gsl together someday
i also want to congratulate nestea on his win in the code s finals and nada on another strong performance(wow nada will remain a gosu for life, what a strong/consistent player, he just keeps getting better and better) and i hope the korean community isnt being too harsh on inca because all the foreign progamers could tell that he wasnt on his A-game and that he has alot more potential than what we saw in the finals, also congratulations to bomber and mvp for their performances in code a, bomber thank you for taking time and helping me practice for my match vs marineking in the world championship, my only regret was that i felt i wasted your time because of my weak performance vs marineking and im sorry for that
last but not least thank you to slayers and mvp for that insane team match in the gstl finals... wow! that was one of the best team matchs that ive ever seen, congratulation to my good friend cella for coaching his team to another championship and congratulations to team mvp for showing all the doubters what they were made off, i love team MVP because of their hilarious introduction video(zzzzzz dongraegu and genius had the best intros ever) and you can tell that their team atmosphere is extremely good because they all have a good time when they're playing, im sure thats one of the reasons why they performed so well(aswell as being extremely talented players), it looked like they pushed each other and didnt want to dissapoint one another, it saddens me to not see DRG in code s because hes one of the top korean zergs in the world, but im sure hell be up there soon enough ^^ the foreign community came up with several nicknames for drg, one of the first ones was "the dong" but alot of fans got angry because thats jaedong's nickname so they then came up with " Don Raegu" which is a playoff on his name which basically means something like the mafia boss of spaghetti LOL
hope to see you guys soon ^_^~~, and i hope someone traslates this message : D "
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Isn't this the opinion of one caster? A caster who was deemed (along with the other GOM commentators) to be very bad during the BW days?
I don't think officials at Gretech are this stupid, i honestly think it's just this clueless guy.
The sooner they get an ex player on the GOM casting staff the better. For everyone.
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tt i wish i could have found the edit button, i hope someone ends up translating my post lol
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On May 22 2011 10:28 TT1 wrote:
tt i wish i could have found the edit button, i hope someone ends up translating my post lol
well it wasnt translated fully but somebody paraphrased it so koreans got your point dont worry 
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On May 22 2011 02:29 Jombozeus wrote:Show nested quote +Mr. Chae also spoke about his opinion on providing code S spot for foreign players. "I don't think GSL is same level as MLG. I believe foreign fans also think same as me. There is notable difference between the seed for Koreans to MLG Championship and the seed for foreigners to GSL code S Are we really saying that Inca is more skillful than say naniwa? Code S is being VERY disappointing for Mr. GOMTV to make such a statement. Also considering that koreans dropped like flies in the Chinese Gigabyte tournament, their bragging rights is down the drain.
Yep.
Nada pretty easily dispatched Naniwa. Inca has an incredible PvP and his PvT is solid, just a bad PvZ.
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On May 22 2011 09:53 Fubi wrote:
I like how people are trying to use extreme examples to disprove Mr. Chae's claims about GSL being at a higher level than MLG seeding-wise; such as pointing out Inca vs Naniwa. Of course there will always be a few exceptions. You're pointing out one of the best in EU atm, and comparing it to one of the bottom to middle Code S players.
Mr. Chae is talking about the league as a whole. And there is definitely no question that GSL, or korean players in general are at the moment, at level or few higher than the rest of world.
No question? It has to be questionable or else half of TeamLiquid wouldn't be disagreeing with you.
As for Mr. Chae's response, I was a bit disappointed by it. It really felt like he didn't understand the problems that foreigners are having. GSL is a LONG event, and since only the top spots pay out well, it's a large gamble. No one wants to put all their eggs in one basket, as the saying goes. Plus, if foreigners are only going to get seeded into Code A, then they don't even get a CHANCE at the good prize pool unless they go through Code A, and then since its tournament style, all it takes is a bad day or a misread on a couple cheeses and bam, you're out and done for the next, what, month and a half? Like I said, going to Korea is putting all your eggs in one basket, and, well, most reasonable humans are risk adverse. Most people would rather have a steady and more reliable income than banking on one huge payout.
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EPT
