GomTV caster's answer to foreigners' rejection - Page 25
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Skilledblob
Germany3392 Posts
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snafoo
New Zealand1615 Posts
Warpgates cause minerals to build up. 400 minerals can easily be dumped on 3 stalkers. | ||
Blasphemi
United Kingdom980 Posts
On May 23 2011 17:30 Skilledblob wrote: considering what kind of players are in the supertournament some of the good EU players could have easily beaten the first round or gone further into the tournament A lot of these lesser known players from Code A/B are actually really good. Just look at Bomber, MMA, Ryung who've only had one season in GSL as well as players like DongRaGu(sp) who can't even get into Code A. I know Haypro's not in great form but the fact he never requalified for Code A should suggest there's a lot of good players down in Code B. | ||
Skilledblob
Germany3392 Posts
On May 23 2011 18:12 Blasphemi wrote: A lot of these lesser known players from Code A/B are actually really good. Just look at Bomber, MMA, Ryung who've only had one season in GSL as well as players like DongRaGu(sp) who can't even get into Code A. I know Haypro's not in great form but the fact he never requalified for Code A should suggest there's a lot of good players down in Code B. I dont mean the Code A guys like Bomber. But there are some invitees from old GSL Open seasons and those guys were really bad | ||
Blasphemi
United Kingdom980 Posts
On May 23 2011 18:14 Skilledblob wrote: I dont mean the Code A guys like Bomber. But there are some invitees from old GSL Open seasons and those guys were really bad Yeah for sure, like all tournaments it's in the luck of how you draw. | ||
ilmman
364 Posts
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VGhost
United States3608 Posts
On May 23 2011 17:28 Lamppost wrote: I thought everyone had the same opinion on this subject. Korea has a way bigger talent pool where the US/EU has a more reserved talent pool meaning only the top 20 of each region can compete against the top 60 of Korea . I'd adjust that: Korea has a way bigger trained talent pool, and the infrastructure/culture in place to maintain it. The US/EU has a much bigger raw talent pool to draw from (because duh), but it's mostly un- or undertrained (even our best "pros" don't have anything like a Korean pro-team's regimen). If I may draw an analogy, it's the same reason the USA is always mediocre in the World Cup. We may be a bigger country, with a larger "pool" of athletes to draw from... but the culture encourages them to do other things (American football, basketball, soccer), and even the ones who do play soccer don't have the same infrastructure in place to support them (though that's slowly improving). tl;dr: by Korean standards, almost all of the best foreign pros are really just "amateurs", even if they're very good. Amateurs can't afford the professional rigors of travel, training, etc. | ||
Thallis
United States314 Posts
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On May 22 2011 16:22 garlicface wrote: The IdrA of now - when compared to other players - is far better than the IdrA of then. I think he got pretty lucky making Ro16 (you say 16 but wasn't it 8?). However, if he were to compete now then I would expect him to make Ro4 at least. So which of those players can Idra beat for sure to make Ro4 at least: IMNestea IMMvp STBomber oGsMC Anyways, people should realize that, for foreign players going to Korea is not a great option, unless if you can arrange a partnership with a team so that the player going to Korea can train with them. In that case, regardless of the prize money, he will get one of the most famous esport experience throughout the world. Such a partnership, though is very hard to accomplish and I think that was Xeris's point (because all of the team houses are full). | ||
PHC
United States472 Posts
On May 22 2011 11:41 Subversion wrote: Nowhere have I seen someone say that people don't want to accept the Code A invite "because its too hard to beat Koreans". That actually hasn't been brought up at all. Besides, all the MLG winners who've been to Korea have achieved Code S. So this dude can f*ck right off. I don't. What the hell, foreigners aren't as good as Koreans? Look at NASL, TSL, even GSL. Even the World Champs went down to an ace match. TT1 needs to speak for himself, maybe he can't beat Koreans, but the likes of IdrA, Jinro, Thorzain, Naniwa, HuK say whats up. I'm so sick of placing these Koreans on a pedestal. Sure it was like that in Brood War, but foreigners have shown that they can compete with them in SC2. And to have one of our own community speaking on behalf of everyone and totally undermining the entire scene like that is fucking atrocious. I'm too pissed, I'm taking a break from this thread. Dude... I know you apologized to TT1 and all, but you are absolutely delusional trying to prove that foreigner skill = Korean skill in SC2 with NASL, GSL, TSL, and the GSL WC. Listen, I'm not trying to attack you, and I'm not trying to "place these Koreans on a pedestal", but how is quoting NASL GSL TSL and the GSL WC going to prove that foreigners are on the same level as the Korean players? NASL & TSL: Online tournaments have no bearing on true skill, according to IdrA. He says you shouldn't lose to Koreans on KR -> NA being played on the NA server. I mention IdrA because he is the most vocal out of the top foreigners who experienced it firsthand of playing from Korea on the NA server. If you want, I can post a direct quote on SotG for reference. Have you played on the NA server from Korea to prove that IdrA is wrong? If IdrA is a weak point of reference, what would be a better one? GSL WC: It went to the ace match... in an exhibition for no money. How exactly does that hold weight? In the actual tournament: Dimaga vs Nestea was an awesome series, but he got rolled by San 3-1 in the next round. (Note: Dimaga was the only person on the World All-Stars to beat a Korean in a BO3 or BO5 there - and it was the first round.) GSL: Huk, Jinro, Ret, Haypro, IdrA, TLO are the only foreigners to play in Code A or higher. Code A and Code S have gotten much harder since Ret, TLO, and IdrA left. If you disagree with this, please show objective results to disprove it. It's one thing to show love for the foreigner scene, but the truth can hurt. There's no need to attack people for stating it and they were not trying to rub it in our faces. I think you are paranoid in thinking TT1 or the GOM director were being arrogant - I thought they were telling universally truths in terms of foreigner vs Korean skill level... | ||
razy
Russian Federation899 Posts
The pretty obvious part is: who the heck will want to travel to Korea to play for 1 month so he gets a maximum of a $900 while u can get pretty much the same in EU\NA by playing a tone of local tourneys w/o spending 2k to move to Korea and some money for actually living there. The only advantage of such a trip i see is being able to play with good players but u most likely will get to them somewhere in ro8. Add up Starcraft 2 being young game where the stability of any progamer (even the best one) is under question... No offence but all this looks like GSL thinks they are doing a huge favor to non-korean progamers by inviting them to this event. | ||
TDN
United States133 Posts
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KotaOnCue
United States180 Posts
On May 26 2011 11:38 TDN wrote: So, it turns out that team Fnatic doesn't want to spend the travel and accommodation money for their players, instead blaming on short notice with the big tittle "The Problem with Korea". Considering that they are playing on a budget and sending their best players to a tournament that will cost them a lot more than what they'll make back (even if said players win) instead of sending them to local tournaments for far less money with more local exposure (more ad revenue) and more likely of a chance to get their investment and then some back in return, you're right, every team should definitely jump on this chance! *sarcasm :p* Esports isn't a cash cow and what little money there is to make is better spent strengthening the local scene then there is increasing your "global presence" by shipping off to tournaments that won't make you any money, even in ad revenue. It just isn't a financially responsible thing for any team to do to try and get their players out to Korea where they can become a 1 and done and be completely forgotten about for a month. | ||
Aberu
United States968 Posts
On May 26 2011 02:25 PHC wrote: GSL WC: It went to the ace match... in an exhibition for no money. How exactly does that hold weight? In the actual tournament: Dimaga vs Nestea was an awesome series, but he got rolled by San 3-1 in the next round. (Note: Dimaga was the only person on the World All-Stars to beat a Korean in a BO3 or BO5 there - and it was the first round.) GSL: Huk, Jinro, Ret, Haypro, IdrA, TLO are the only foreigners to play in Code A or higher. Code A and Code S have gotten much harder since Ret, TLO, and IdrA left. If you disagree with this, please show objective results to disprove it. Just to correct you, TT1 made it to the RO8 as well, and if he had been bracketed against San, I think we might have seen a different outcome. Instead he gets bracketed against the terran with the most unique playstyle, and one who used that playstyle to make it to the finals consistently in Korea multiple times. He played against someone who plays different than all other terrans, and dominates with it. | ||
TDN
United States133 Posts
On May 22 2011 02:46 heatly wrote: I would say inca is atleast on par if not better in some aspects (PvP) as Naniwa. Inca lost to the top zerg in the world (or one of) in the finals having one bad match doesn't make you bad. IMO Nestea would wipe the floor naniwa in a LAN setting. I guess will have to see Naniwa has a good chance of taking MLG Columbus and I believe I read or heard some where that Naniwa would take a GSL spot if the opportunity arose. Funny how a player that won a 5k dollar tournament and is suddenly being compared in every thread to top Code S. | ||
Juke290
Egypt316 Posts
On May 22 2011 02:31 Timerly wrote: I don't know why the guy is all like "KR > world" after the KR vs world match, TSL and NASL results etc. when it comes to the S seeds vs MLG CB seeds. Then about the declined invites, the tournament takes 3 weeks and clashes with MLG, something like that should be announced about 2-3 months in advance to be considered by the teams. MLG plays through a MUCH larger grid in a couple of days. Guess what, you can't televise every match there but maybe that's a good thing? Just an idea...snarf. Not really fair to compare, MLG is not just starcraft 2, while GomTV operates around Starcraft 2, they need to have content flowing and have matches being played. But of course it would be great to see GomTV plan and publicly announce these events sooner. | ||
sandyph
Indonesia1640 Posts
On May 22 2011 02:21 DivinO wrote: There is a notable difference between seeds for MLG and a seed for GSL? Explain, please. since all the 'foreigner' seems to care about is the prize pool losing 2 games in Code S will give you the same money as finishing 4th in MLG (~$1400) which require you win most games and dont talk about cost since flight and accomodation is paid by GSL/MLG and you would still need to eat whether you're in Korea or USA so in a sense, the 4 seed the Korean got for MLG is worst than the code S seed the foreigner will get HuK: drop down to Up & Down after getting 0-2-ed in group IdrA: left for easier competition in NA Jinro: down to code A Naniwa: ???? | ||
PHC
United States472 Posts
On May 26 2011 14:25 Aberu wrote: Just to correct you, TT1 made it to the RO8 as well, and if he had been bracketed against San, I think we might have seen a different outcome. Instead he gets bracketed against the terran with the most unique playstyle, and one who used that playstyle to make it to the finals consistently in Korea multiple times. He played against someone who plays different than all other terrans, and dominates with it. There is no need to correct me. TT1 did not beat a Korean in a BO3 or BO5 in the GSL WC. He beat a foreigner to get to the RO 8. Click on Week 1 Also, hypotheticals between a Korean vs. a foreigner for convenience should really be avoided. What if TT1 faced off against MVP? MC? And what if he did face San? He beat White-Ra a few days before. It is much easier to base relative skill based on actual results. | ||
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