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On May 22 2011 08:21 AlBundy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 08:17 Baarn wrote:On May 22 2011 08:10 AlBundy wrote:Wow this thread is getting out of control. So much cockiness from the foreign scene  Also people seem obsessed with money over here, that's really sad and unhealthy for the competition. It's not cockiness it's that we are lucky enough to have our own leagues in the West. Which leagues? Are you talking about these online prerecorded leagues, like IPL or even better, NASL, where the competition is a farce? Or maybe are you talking about these once every two months unwatchable leagues, like MLG and its absolutely shitty format? Please enlighten me. I don't get why people are content with this kind of product. We, the foreign scene, the West as you call it, deserve better. At the moment we don't have any reason to get "cocky".
I think it's great we have any large tournaments at all. It's a great step that is being made regardless of if it is reminiscent of some high standard you hold. I guess you enjoy some tv studio quality one sided finals more than anything positive going on around you in your area.
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As Gretorp would say, the "opportunity cost" of a foreigner attending a month-long tournament -- the cost of flight and food, the stiff competition, missing other tournaments -- is too damn high. The risk/reward ratio sucks balls.
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I'm pretty sure what he meant by GSL and MLG being on different levels is that seeding someone into MLG is seeding them into a single tournament that lasts a weekend, while seeding someone into Code S is at least a 6 week commitment
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On May 22 2011 08:05 Seraphic wrote:
This is more or less my personal opinion.
SC2's Pro Scene compared to BW Pro Scene is 2 different things. I think GSL believes the skill level are far above others in the Foreign scene. Which in fact is wrong. They aren't BW Pros, whom absolutely destroyed the BW scene. They barely won the WC too, don't know what makes him think he has the right to brag...
How did the Koreans "barely" win WC? If i recall correctly, when the games actually mattered for money, the Koreans wiped the floor with the foreigners. Matter of fact, Dimaga was the only foreigner to beat a Korean in first round (partially attributed to the fact that the Koreans took the show-match so un-seriously that Nestea had to reveal his build in the ace match, thus causing his downfall in game 3 of the actual tournament), before he was promptly eliminated by a Korean in the second round (San 3-1). I hope your not basing your claim on the show match portion, where it was obvious the Koreans did not take it seriously, as is substantiated by any of the interviews by BOTH Koreans and foreigners. Hell, San even got CARRIERS......
As of right now, the Korean scene is better than the foreign scene, because they care more, thus they have every reason to brag. Every major lan tournament that involved Koreans was won by a Korean.
1. IEM was swept by Ace, Moon, and Squirtle.
2. Dreamhack was won my MC
3. Coppenhagan was stomped by MC
4. Hardcore Gamers Lan was won by Ace
5. Blizzcon was won by Genius
Now when you look at online tournaments, where lag is obviously an issue. When you practice 12 hours a day under one set of settings, even the most subtle changes are gonna affect your play dramatically. And according to Jinro, NA to KR is considered "high latency". Additionally the unfavorable lag was exacerbated by the earthquake. Idra even admitted the lag was unplayable, thus he refused to play cross server. ( Don't say its because he's cocky, now that he competes in the U.S. it no longer behooves him to blindly hype Koreans to highlight his own skill)
1. In NASL there's a Korean in the top 4 of every group, with 3 of the groups having a Korean in the top 2. Actually the only Koreans that are not top 4 right is Rainbow and Zenio. That means 8/10 Koreans are TOP 4 in their respective groups. Considering there's 10 people per group and only 2 Koreans in each group, thats pretty good. Also the Koreans in NASL are NOT the top Koreans.
2. A Korean has won the last 3 FXOPENs. Matter of fact, EVERY finalist of the last 3 FXOPENS have also been Korean.
3. SlayersMMA recently won the All 4 One Invitational
If this doesn't prove that right now, the Koreans's dedication and focus on Starcraft as a legitimate sport, makes them better. Then I don't what will.
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On May 22 2011 08:33 Vista wrote:
I'm pretty sure what he meant by GSL and MLG being on different levels is that seeding someone into MLG is seeding them into a single tournament that lasts a weekend, while seeding someone into Code S is at least a 6 week commitment
Makes plenty of sense for a korean to fly to america for 3 days and win MLG for a spot in code s than to spend a month in code a to do the same thing. Other way around is much more of a commitment for non korean.
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Of course there will be rejections. Did everyone forget what happened in the actual tournament at the GSL WC? All the foreigners lost in first round except Dimaga.
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On May 22 2011 02:14 Tanatos wrote:
GSL need to realise that the format simply dont suit the foreign scene. Lets reverse the situation if GSL was in europe im sure it would be as hard at it is now to get Korean players to stay for months in a foreign country.
Koreans will be happy to move to europe for ESL
To them it's 95% guarantee to win!
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On May 22 2011 08:21 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 07:45 namedplayer wrote:On May 22 2011 07:37 425kid wrote:
Lol @ this thread. Korea>>>>>>>foreign scene ainec. If there was a foreigner on the level of nestea, mc, mvp, bomber etc, then they would go to korea for the chance to win 80k a month. MC and Nestea have made over 200k just from gsl since september. Even guys like Thewind and anypro have made more in prize money than every foreigner who hasnt gone to korea This. If you have enough skill, theres no reason to refuse. 92k for a month? Hell yeah! take that and come back to your country.. if you're not, you don't have to go to Korea. The game is too volatile to actually guarantee anyone who considers himself the best to go and simply win... you'd have to stay there for at least a year to get an even field with the koreans and have a chance. Even Iron -- who was considered the best P since the beta -- took 3 seasons to win his first GSL.
Fruitdealer was the best player during beta and he took GSL season 1. MC wasn't even playing.
I was 2000+ platinum on NA server during the beta and beat so many players like Qxc,Strifecro,Axlav,Filthy,Attero etc.. at the same time I was also 1600+ plat on Korea server and beat Check,MioWerra,Liveforever etc..
Fruitdealer,SSKS,Maka,Ensnare.. these were who considered the best players in Korea.
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Russian Federation949 Posts
I feel like 1 seed to code S is cool for MLG, then have 1 for Dreamhack and 1 more for another huge non Korean Lan. Cause the line ups at Dreamhack and some other Europeans lans are even stronger than MLG
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The world championship was much shorter and guaranteed money for all that participated so it was a pretty easy choice for foreigners to do it. Code A and the super tournament are far less lucrative for most participants and are a huge time-sink that makes foreigners pass up many other opportunities and put their life on hold while they go to Korea.
SC2 as an E-sport simply isn't confined to Korea like SC1 was. If GOM wants more foreigners then they're going to have to make it more lucrative for foreigners.
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On May 22 2011 08:53 Pirat6662001 wrote:
I feel like 1 seed to code S is cool for MLG, then have 1 for Dreamhack and 1 more for another huge non Korean Lan. Cause the line ups at Dreamhack and some other Europeans lans are even stronger than MLG
Except MC always wins...
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There's a significant difference between a one-week event and one lasting a month. I strongly believe this is the single most important reason behind the rejections.
I know I'm being Captain Obvious here, but if they'd make it a one-weekend deal like MLG or a one-week deal like IEM (or the GSL WC), there'd be a ton more interest for NA/EU progamers to participate.
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And there'd be way less prize money...
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On May 22 2011 08:58 phuzi0n wrote:
SC2 as an E-sport simply isn't confined to Korea like SC1 was. If GOM wants more foreigners then they're going to have to make it more lucrative for foreigners.
But how? It seems they are already doing a lot.
Giving free code a spots to foreigners, giving a CODE S spot (wich is hard as hell to get even as a korean) with code a for the 2-4 spots at MLG (where the koreans need to go through a huge qualifier tournament) and yet its not enough?
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Lol GOM has done everything to cater to the foreign audience and foreign players and it still isn't good enough for you guys. Would you rather it be like Brood War where Korea was almost entirely exclusive to foreign players?
Foreign players don't want to goto Korea to compete in the GSL for a month cause they know they are going to get stomped. Plain and simple. If they thought they had a chance at competing at a high level why would they not take a chance to compete in the most prestigious Starcraft II league? Not to mention GSL is where all the money is.
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On May 22 2011 09:07 Bobster wrote:
There's a significant difference between a one-week event and one lasting a month. I strongly believe this is the single most important reason behind the rejections.
I know I'm being Captain Obvious here, but if they'd make it a one-weekend deal like MLG or a one-week deal like IEM (or the GSL WC), there'd be a ton more interest for NA/EU progamers to participate.
Yeah everybody agree that it's the main reason why foreigners don't want to go in GSL, but GOM TV can't make a one weekend format because they have a studio and people working in this studio everyday. I think it's impossible for them to satisfy most of the foreigners, but i hope there will be some guys like Huk and Jinro who want to compete with the best whatever the conditions, and skilled enough to make it far in GSL.
I'm not saying it's an easy decision for pro players in the west, but remember people like Grrr and Elky, they took big risks and achieve something big at the end. Now they are legends in the starcraft community.
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i think he ignored a lot of the foreigners arguments, I think better communication btwn scenes is going to have to occur
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It's not about thinking you can be good or believing in you or whatever Hollywood nonsense you guys come up with. It's about committing to two alternatives: doing well and staying because of it = changing your whole life or not doing so well, going home without any net gain. Going there for a month to get some cash and then getting out? It's not really an option man.
Sometimes I really question whether some of you guys have had to make any real life decisions yet.
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On May 22 2011 03:05 Yamulo wrote:
Yeah... and the GSL MLG agreement was so good too.... hey.. lets give these guys an auto seat into a weekend tourny for 5k, and exchange you get to come to our country for a month for like 2k.... I just am having a hard time understanding why Mr. Chae lee is finding it strange that people are not showing up.. And after the korean performance in the world championship can he really say that code S is so much better than MLG... Maybe some players...
Korean performance in World Championship? You mean the one where only 2 foreigners went to ro8 and one of those beat another foreigner in ro16?
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On May 22 2011 09:21 Timerly wrote:
It's not about thinking you can be good or believing in you or whatever Hollywood nonsense you guys come up with. It's about committing to two alternatives: doing well and staying because of it = changing your whole life or not doing so well, going home without any net gain. Going there for a month to get some cash and then getting out? It's not really an option man.
Sometimes I really question whether some of you guys have had to make any real life decisions yet.
Dude, you get no gain if you can`t get past 2 rounds. You don`t even need need to win the whole thing to make more money than you would in a major foreigner tournament. Isn`t the point of sponsors is to pay for the expenses? If not then foreign scene needs a ton of work.
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EPT
