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On May 22 2011 12:12 obsidia wrote:
I cant believe noone has yet commented on how ridiculously low the prize pool is in code A? surely thats the main reason noone has the motivation to go over there..... from what i'v heard about korean travel costs, winning code A itself barely covers the travel costs? Seems getting a spot in code A for that.... is a worthy prize for placing top 3 in MLG !!!!! oh wait
Yeah but if you consider yourself able to compete with the likes of Nestea and other top tier code S players, making it through code A would be no problem right? It's a pretty good prize for "33rd place".
gsl easily has the highest prize pool @ 120k/month. You can't get that as a foreigner even if you win all the tsls, ipls, dreamhacks etc. nasl is the closest but thats online and 100k/3months.
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On May 22 2011 12:22 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
The biggest obstacle here is the Earnings Potential for any and all players playing in Korea versus outside Korea, in combination with the various Costs and Risk a player assumes upon travelings to Korea. From a competitive perspective, Korea is probably one of, if not the best, places to test you skills in a live tournament setting. But the amount of money you stand to gain in relation to the immediate costs you incur upon traveling and subsequently take on from losing the potential winnings of foreign tournaments is still far too high in favor of the Risk.
I think that is the biggest and universal issue present here. GOM is doing an AMAZING job overall, but the risk for foreign players is way too high. Either the connectivity needs to improve between Korea and the rest of the world, or GOM would need to structure their tournaments such that it would be more conducive for a foreign pro to participate in the GSL, without completely forsaking foreign tournaments.
I can only assume the reverse is kind of true for Korean players. They must be frustrated as hell seeing the giant prize pools around the world, but because of travel cost/latency they can not consistently participate globally. Instead purely relying on invites to at least cover some of the costs for them to play abroad.
Winning a single game in the super tournament is as almost as much prizemoney as getting 5th in MLG and just being in the R32 of code S even if you lose all your group matches is the same as getting 4th.
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Don't listen to the haters TT1. I really respect your maturity in admitting that there is a skill gap between foreigners and Koreans right now. I hope that you can continue to improve your play and someday go compete in GSL again. You have yourself a new fan 
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On May 22 2011 12:17 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 12:04 Werk wrote:
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people? the prize $ rankings beg to differ http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./
Old GSL format actually boosted earning potential with having top prize double what it is now. This was prior to all the opportunities there are now in the foreign scene. Maybe I'll eat my words but in a year you'll see more of a foreign presence at the very top of that list.
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On May 22 2011 12:36 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 12:17 Tachion wrote:On May 22 2011 12:04 Werk wrote:
hard to beat the koreans? theres more cash to be made in EU and NA than there is in korea, why go to korea for a month when your just going to lose to much cash... the rejections surprise people? the prize $ rankings beg to differ http://ehcg.djgamblore.com./ Old GSL format actually boosted earning potential with having top prize double what it is now. This was prior to all the opportunities there are now in the foreign scene. Maybe I'll eat my words but in a year you'll see more of a foreign presence at the very top of that list.
Read my post 2 posts up, every month there are 33 (32 code S and winner of code A) players earning at minimum as much as a 4th place MLG.
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The decision to make the winner of Code A go straight to Code S is an excellent idea. I always thought that Code A was a useless tournament and was only their for fill-time during the Code S matches. If players only goal was to get into Code S, then all they needed to do is just win their Up and Downs.
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On May 22 2011 12:19 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 12:10 Dawski wrote:
TT1 i love you and all but you gotta work on your communication haha. The way you made it sound in your response was that you are the representative of the entire foreigner community and that we all feel that we can't even compete in the first rounds of the tourney. Shouldve used better words like you did in your response with "enough of a skill difference to be a bad investment". Sometimes small things like that can piss people off when your trying to represent them.
and you have to admit but that world lineup that you said he was in denial about...was pretty fricken stacked and i also believe it would have a chance vs the top koreans ofc i was, the only players that would be able to compete vs koreans are the ones training in korea, all the other players would never be able to win consistently vs the top players
If this trend continues [foreigners not being able to make any type of commitment to train in Korea], the SC2 scene will just end up being like the BW scene, with Korea dominating everyone. It kind of makes me sad.
It's unfortunate that western pros see absolutely no incentive to compete with the best because of all the "easy" money that's available to them in the West.
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On May 22 2011 12:31 BackSideAttack wrote:Don't listen to the haters TT1. I really respect your maturity in admitting that there is a skill gap between foreigners and Koreans right now. I hope that you can continue to improve your play and someday go compete in GSL again. You have yourself a new fan
the problem is for every new fan i make myself 10 antifans : D
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Mr. Chae its just simple dollars and cents. $900 just pays for a ticket to Korea. You still need lodging and food. When then opportunity cost is better, I imagine that foreign players will go to Korea to play.
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On May 22 2011 12:29 pieman819 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 12:22 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
The biggest obstacle here is the Earnings Potential for any and all players playing in Korea versus outside Korea, in combination with the various Costs and Risk a player assumes upon travelings to Korea. From a competitive perspective, Korea is probably one of, if not the best, places to test you skills in a live tournament setting. But the amount of money you stand to gain in relation to the immediate costs you incur upon traveling and subsequently take on from losing the potential winnings of foreign tournaments is still far too high in favor of the Risk.
I think that is the biggest and universal issue present here. GOM is doing an AMAZING job overall, but the risk for foreign players is way too high. Either the connectivity needs to improve between Korea and the rest of the world, or GOM would need to structure their tournaments such that it would be more conducive for a foreign pro to participate in the GSL, without completely forsaking foreign tournaments.
I can only assume the reverse is kind of true for Korean players. They must be frustrated as hell seeing the giant prize pools around the world, but because of travel cost/latency they can not consistently participate globally. Instead purely relying on invites to at least cover some of the costs for them to play abroad. Winning a single game in the super tournament is as almost as much prizemoney as getting 5th in MLG and just being in the R32 of code S even if you lose all your group matches is the same as getting 4th.
But that is one tournament, if you lose you get nothing other than previous round earnings. While in NA, EU you have many major tournaments as well and an innumerable about of smaller tournaments. Even if the total winnings between the two were equal, the number of chances to win portions of it are not.
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On May 22 2011 12:46 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 12:31 BackSideAttack wrote:Don't listen to the haters TT1. I really respect your maturity in admitting that there is a skill gap between foreigners and Koreans right now. I hope that you can continue to improve your play and someday go compete in GSL again. You have yourself a new fan the problem is for every new fan i make myself 10 antifans : D
Yeah I really appreciate the honesty. I've been a fan since brood war because I love your play as well
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On May 22 2011 12:52 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 12:29 pieman819 wrote:On May 22 2011 12:22 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
The biggest obstacle here is the Earnings Potential for any and all players playing in Korea versus outside Korea, in combination with the various Costs and Risk a player assumes upon travelings to Korea. From a competitive perspective, Korea is probably one of, if not the best, places to test you skills in a live tournament setting. But the amount of money you stand to gain in relation to the immediate costs you incur upon traveling and subsequently take on from losing the potential winnings of foreign tournaments is still far too high in favor of the Risk.
I think that is the biggest and universal issue present here. GOM is doing an AMAZING job overall, but the risk for foreign players is way too high. Either the connectivity needs to improve between Korea and the rest of the world, or GOM would need to structure their tournaments such that it would be more conducive for a foreign pro to participate in the GSL, without completely forsaking foreign tournaments.
I can only assume the reverse is kind of true for Korean players. They must be frustrated as hell seeing the giant prize pools around the world, but because of travel cost/latency they can not consistently participate globally. Instead purely relying on invites to at least cover some of the costs for them to play abroad. Winning a single game in the super tournament is as almost as much prizemoney as getting 5th in MLG and just being in the R32 of code S even if you lose all your group matches is the same as getting 4th. But that is one tournament, if you lose you get nothing other than previous round earnings. While in NA, EU you have many major tournaments as well and an innumerable about of smaller tournaments. Even if the total winnings between the two were equal, the number of chances to win portions of it are not.
There are more or at least as many GSL's than major US/EU tournaments, and you only have to be in code S to earn as much as a high placing in one of those tournaments. FXO does some online stuff too that the Koreans are always in.
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On May 22 2011 12:46 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 12:31 BackSideAttack wrote:Don't listen to the haters TT1. I really respect your maturity in admitting that there is a skill gap between foreigners and Koreans right now. I hope that you can continue to improve your play and someday go compete in GSL again. You have yourself a new fan the problem is for every new fan i make myself 10 antifans : D
then i guess you just made yourself 10 more antifans cause i just became a fan after i saw that post in playxp
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On May 22 2011 12:45 gozima wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 12:19 TT1 wrote:On May 22 2011 12:10 Dawski wrote:
TT1 i love you and all but you gotta work on your communication haha. The way you made it sound in your response was that you are the representative of the entire foreigner community and that we all feel that we can't even compete in the first rounds of the tourney. Shouldve used better words like you did in your response with "enough of a skill difference to be a bad investment". Sometimes small things like that can piss people off when your trying to represent them.
and you have to admit but that world lineup that you said he was in denial about...was pretty fricken stacked and i also believe it would have a chance vs the top koreans ofc i was, the only players that would be able to compete vs koreans are the ones training in korea, all the other players would never be able to win consistently vs the top players If this trend continues [foreigners not being able to make any type of commitment to train in Korea], the SC2 scene will just end up being like the BW scene, with Korea dominating everyone. It kind of makes me sad. It's unfortunate that western pros see absolutely no incentive to compete with the best because of all the "easy" money that's available to them in the West.
yup, the leap in skill has been HUGE in korea ever since sc2 came out, i could safely say that a few of the foreigners were better than the top koreans in the earlier days of sc2(i actually thought idra had a good chance of winning one of the 1st 2 gsl seasons if he had a bit of luck) but ever since they started setting up proteam houses theyve been improving at a much faster rate than us, their understanding/execution of the game is just evolving much faster than us and sadly if were not able to have to same type of infrastructure(which i dont see happening anytime soon) that the koreans have were just gonna end up falling behind even more
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On May 22 2011 13:03 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 12:45 gozima wrote:On May 22 2011 12:19 TT1 wrote:On May 22 2011 12:10 Dawski wrote:
TT1 i love you and all but you gotta work on your communication haha. The way you made it sound in your response was that you are the representative of the entire foreigner community and that we all feel that we can't even compete in the first rounds of the tourney. Shouldve used better words like you did in your response with "enough of a skill difference to be a bad investment". Sometimes small things like that can piss people off when your trying to represent them.
and you have to admit but that world lineup that you said he was in denial about...was pretty fricken stacked and i also believe it would have a chance vs the top koreans ofc i was, the only players that would be able to compete vs koreans are the ones training in korea, all the other players would never be able to win consistently vs the top players If this trend continues [foreigners not being able to make any type of commitment to train in Korea], the SC2 scene will just end up being like the BW scene, with Korea dominating everyone. It kind of makes me sad. It's unfortunate that western pros see absolutely no incentive to compete with the best because of all the "easy" money that's available to them in the West. yup, the leap in skill has been HUGE in korea ever since sc2 came out, i could safely say that a few of the foreigners were better than the top koreans in the earlier days of sc2(i actually thought idra had a good chance of winning one of the 1st 2 gsl seasons if he had a bit of luck) but ever since they started setting up proteam houses theyve been improving at a much faster rate than us, their understanding/execution of the game is just evolving much faster than us and sadly if were not able to have to same type of infrastructure(which i dont see happening anytime soon) that the koreans have were just gonna end up falling behind even more
Thanks TT1 for giving us your honest opinion and I do agree with you. If Western Pros don't step up the skill gap will only get bigger and bigger and we will have a BW situation again.
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On May 22 2011 13:03 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 12:45 gozima wrote:On May 22 2011 12:19 TT1 wrote:On May 22 2011 12:10 Dawski wrote:
TT1 i love you and all but you gotta work on your communication haha. The way you made it sound in your response was that you are the representative of the entire foreigner community and that we all feel that we can't even compete in the first rounds of the tourney. Shouldve used better words like you did in your response with "enough of a skill difference to be a bad investment". Sometimes small things like that can piss people off when your trying to represent them.
and you have to admit but that world lineup that you said he was in denial about...was pretty fricken stacked and i also believe it would have a chance vs the top koreans ofc i was, the only players that would be able to compete vs koreans are the ones training in korea, all the other players would never be able to win consistently vs the top players If this trend continues [foreigners not being able to make any type of commitment to train in Korea], the SC2 scene will just end up being like the BW scene, with Korea dominating everyone. It kind of makes me sad. It's unfortunate that western pros see absolutely no incentive to compete with the best because of all the "easy" money that's available to them in the West. yup, the leap in skill has been HUGE in korea ever since sc2 came out, i could safely say that a few of the foreigners were better than the top koreans in the earlier days of sc2(i actually thought idra had a good chance of winning one of the 1st 2 gsl seasons if he had a bit of luck) but ever since they started setting up proteam houses theyve been improving at a much faster rate than us, their understanding/execution of the game is just evolving much faster than us and sadly if were not able to have to same type of infrastructure(which i dont see happening anytime soon) that the koreans have were just gonna end up falling behind even more
I'm just curious, do you think progaming houses like the Root and the one in Sweden are enough to close the gap or do you think coaches, a more strict and regulated approach to the game and(or) stuff like that is necessary?
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On May 22 2011 13:09 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 13:03 TT1 wrote:On May 22 2011 12:45 gozima wrote:On May 22 2011 12:19 TT1 wrote:On May 22 2011 12:10 Dawski wrote:
TT1 i love you and all but you gotta work on your communication haha. The way you made it sound in your response was that you are the representative of the entire foreigner community and that we all feel that we can't even compete in the first rounds of the tourney. Shouldve used better words like you did in your response with "enough of a skill difference to be a bad investment". Sometimes small things like that can piss people off when your trying to represent them.
and you have to admit but that world lineup that you said he was in denial about...was pretty fricken stacked and i also believe it would have a chance vs the top koreans ofc i was, the only players that would be able to compete vs koreans are the ones training in korea, all the other players would never be able to win consistently vs the top players If this trend continues [foreigners not being able to make any type of commitment to train in Korea], the SC2 scene will just end up being like the BW scene, with Korea dominating everyone. It kind of makes me sad. It's unfortunate that western pros see absolutely no incentive to compete with the best because of all the "easy" money that's available to them in the West. yup, the leap in skill has been HUGE in korea ever since sc2 came out, i could safely say that a few of the foreigners were better than the top koreans in the earlier days of sc2(i actually thought idra had a good chance of winning one of the 1st 2 gsl seasons if he had a bit of luck) but ever since they started setting up proteam houses theyve been improving at a much faster rate than us, their understanding/execution of the game is just evolving much faster than us and sadly if were not able to have to same type of infrastructure(which i dont see happening anytime soon) that the koreans have were just gonna end up falling behind even more Thanks TT1 for giving us your honest opinion and I do agree with you. If Western Pros don't step up the skill gap will only get bigger and bigger and we will have a BW situation again.
theres only so much individual players can do, need $$$/sponsorship support bro
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simple you spend more money intro going is such a an investment with out saying staying...what it takes to win it so you dont understand cause tournament is on korea..you lvie there is not hte same that flying from outside gomtv is great but what if theres no gomtv and only mlg ? send your players over there stay for a month oh good luck winning also ...its easy for them cause torunament is on korea..no support GG
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Theres a reason MLG, IPL, NASL, and TSL etc are all over one weekend or online.
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well all complains about korean they arent good cuase they korean they are good cause they have a structure of how to make things... simple pro houses started pump in and team..enviroment and system matters all complain koreans koreans well we all know this right ? if their system works why dont do the same set house .. yes i know i cant or impossible to much money etc what ever reason is then just dont go oh will go bw scene again zzz would be nice too see pro game houses soon outside korea =] till then...
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EPT
