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On May 19 2011 13:12 canikizu wrote:
GSTL format only works well at physical LAN events. Doing it online is a hassle.
1) You get really excited when watching GSTL because the all kill, the suspension, the bm, and the players' expressions. You can't have that playing online. We all knows that it's impossible to get 16 teams around the globe to come to one place and compete.
2) Even if you try to micmic the format, it's really hard. With the normal team format (each player plays against another player on 1 particular map), you don't have to play it live. The players can play their game at any time in the week and send the replays to the organizers. With GSTL format, you don't know who is your next opponent until the previous game is over. So 2 team have to play 1 game, then schedule for the next game, then play that game, then schedule for the next game. With this kind of format, it might take the whole week or two(if players actually have time to follow the schedule) to finish a series. Comparing to current online team league, which players will only play their particular game, GSTL format is really hard to do it online. It's impossible to schedule for 7+7 players and 2 casters to play it live.
I really don't agree with you here.
It's easier, not harder, to get two teams to meet up online than it is to make them physically meet up. And why are you bringing up scheduling? It would be like the GSTL where both teams meet up online (instead of physically) at for instance 17:00 with each team presenting the lineup, etc, etc. The first match starts at 17:30, when it's finished they have a 10 minute break before starting the next game. At most they are playing 7 matches (at around 20 minutes) with 6x10 minute breaks, which adds up to around 4 hours.
So, two casters, two teams and about 4 hours of spare time.
There is one disadvantage and that is that your team members won't be able to watch the game as it progresses*, so it's a bit harder to know who to select for the next game.
*Would be waaay to tempting to cheat, not that
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Yep i prefer that style also bo7 with single elimination even tho i don't hate the current system.
I think the experience is much better because what we see hapenning now is that some of the games aren't even played.
On the other hand having the 4 players ready for the game and casting them live is real hard to pull because most teams have players from all over the world and living in timezones and considering all that i guess they won't do it unless they make a new team league and more regional.
Imagine a STL (starcraft team league) with a EU division and a NA division. In the end of the league you could do a playoff like this:
1st NA - 2nd EU
1st EU - 2nd NA
I guess this could be the way to minimize the lag/timezone difference
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Sounds like a good idea to me. Though there might be a problem for teams to have all of their players online at that point in time on the Saturday/Sunday when the match has to be played
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agreed, the sc2 scene definately needs another good gstl more than another tsl or code s or nasl (my other 3 favorite tournaments). EGs tournament is ok because of the good casting and whatnot but gstl has a far better team format.
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Teamliquid Winners League gogogo!
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omg maybe thats the answer to tsl 4 and the poll....we dont need more tsl a year. we need 2 tsl formats.....tsl AND tstl.....OMG....this would be the most epic thing ever....so we would have not only christmas (tsl) , we would also have birthday (tstl) the two best times you have in a year!!!!!! GO FOR IT! :D
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This is definitely something a lot of people would love to see although I'm not sure about the whole NA vs EU thing. What about teams that have players from multiple regions? Also I would really like to see how the Korean teams stack up against the rest of the world but I doubt they'd be willing to practice since GSL will be most definitely be running.
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Maybe that's a pet peeve of mine, but an online team league could never be nearly as exiting as GSTL for me. Stuff like this
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7w9Af.gif)
doesn't happen online.
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I think the greatest issue would be trying to find some middle ground in terms of which server the teams play on, perhaps some system could be set up where the higher seeded teams get to play home games (eg. an EU team playing on EU) or perhaps after multiple leagues you could switch so first season an EU team plays on EU and second season that same team plays on NA and vice versa with an NA team.
Also, do EU and NA actually have 8 teams with high enough skill levels? I mean I can probably think of 8 good enough EU teams but not NA teams. Even then I would question if a lot of those teams have any chance against a team like Dignitas or Mousesports. Like would it be a joke for some of the matches?
Sorry about the negativity, I do like the suggestion though! Great idea! 
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I always loved the team format. It felt cooler than the individual player format, because you had more than one matchup in a set (which can get a little old when you're watching a Bo7). It also gives some more meaning to the idea of "team" in the 1v1 format of Starcraft, which spices things up a little beyond ranking players. I'd definitely watch one of these tournaments if it ended up happening.
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On May 19 2011 11:10 Gomas wrote:
EG Master's cup? Theres many leagues like this they just dont get as much viewers as 1v1 leagues.
Also, I had to read 2 paragraphs to realize what u are actually talking about and i freaking should be able to do it just by the title! Read forum guidelines beasty!
EG masters cup is not the same IMO, not hyped at all.
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On May 19 2011 19:48 blackone wrote:Maybe that's a pet peeve of mine, but an online team league could never be nearly as exiting as GSTL for me. Stuff like this doesn't happen online.
you`re so damn right. It`s not just about the games itself, but about the stories and emotions. this does not only apply for team leagues but for online events in general. Sure offline events cost more, but they also attract more viewers/audience and this makes them way more lucrative for sponsors.
In the early days of sc2 I tried to watch everything. Nowadays I havent watched go4sc2/zotac ... in months. I just follow TSL and NASL for the online leagues and tune in whenever there is a offline event. I count GSL to offline events. Do you remeber last MLG, IEM or Dreamhack Inv.? yeah?! cuz they bring out emotions in you, when the cameras zoom in the faces of players that just lost or won, or get interviewed after the Victory ("it's ok")
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Your suggestions sound good to me. But I think that you get the feeling of "team spirit" when watching GSTL because the players are all live at the studio.
As a viewer you won't get that feeling by an online event. All you see is the lobby, and most casters don't even show the chat, it's either hidden or too small to read.
Nevertheless, especially a kind of NA vs. EU tour would be quite interesting, due to the discussions which region has the better players / niveau (pls don't start to discuss that here now).
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Would you and your whole team like to travel to another country just to play a teamleague? problem is, that wont happen. GSTL is so much fun because you have the players all in one place.
edit: posted only after reading the OP, looks like most people came to this conclusion ^^
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On May 19 2011 20:46 O.Golden_ne wrote:
SEA wont be represented?
he is just giving an example not actually making a league..
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On May 19 2011 11:36 Aquafresh wrote:
Team leagues need to be in person to be truly effective. Otherwise they're just glorified clanwars and you have the potential lag/hacking/cheating issues that have plague the BW scene since the beginning.
In the GCPL we had teams occasionally not sending their best players out for ace matches because they were too tired, or no one wanted to play, or a player was asleep etc. You just can't organize an online tournament of the scale of GSTL with so many international teams with players all over the world and no centralized system to hold them accountable for both individually or as a group. It would be nice if we had an organization so big it could justify teams sending players to one place to compete, but the infrastructure just isn't there yet, and I doubt it ever will be.
I think the best we could hope for is for the GSTL to grow much bigger and invite foreign teams for a month long special event league. That way other events could plan around it and the stress on international teams wouldn't be as great since they would have time to prepare.
This guy just nailed it... Team leagues need to be in person or I wouldn't watch them...
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Oh yes, TSTL!!!! That sounds so sweet. Also, it would be so sweet if a LAN organizer (MLG, Dreamhack?) had the guts to try and arrange a LAN team tournament. Maybe they could try and run a small side tournament at their event first and see how it works out. I know they might still be a little nervous about sc2 and don't want to go crazy with it since so far they have been really careful the tournaments run smoothly and reach the viewership they need.
For the team tournament to be successful, it would have to be appealing and big enough for the big teams to send all their best players (5+ players depending on format). If the best teams won't come, the tournament won't be that exciting. However, if run properly, I have no doubt it would be a huge success. Later, hell, even some of the Korean teams might attend!
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TSL hype machine + awesome GSTL team format: MIND=BLOWN.
NGL One in WC3 was very interesting with the team format, even though it had lower prize pool/production than WC3L. Makes you cheer for a team much more than for example in EG's MC format.
Yes, it consumes much time for referees, casters and players. But many European players play in daily cups anyways and could be at least available "on demand". Strangely, it is is way harder to find casters for this, since high profile casters that actually add value have such a busy schedule in SC2.
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Okay since many people didnt understand a lot of stuff I'll try to explain,
1) You dont need 7 players you need 4 like I said before,
2) I played already league like this and it was no problem getting players on at same time, so please dont write stuff like "players dont have time and are too tired" - players are payed to play and if their team tells them they need to be online for 2 hours once a week they will do it since they are paid for it, one clan war lasts between 1 and 2 hours and same thing for casters I dont see how can it be problem?
3) When I said "bored" I didnt mean "OMG life is boring all tournaments suck I never watch any" I meant there wont be any tournament as TSL was for long time so why not make "GSTL" to make up for it?
4) People comparing EG's team league and GSTL probably dont know how formats in both work. EG's format is 3x BO3 matches and then 1x 2v2 match. GSTL format works next way - both teams send 1 player to start CW and then winner stays and plays vs opponent that enemy team decides to send on him, so one player can win whole CW 4-0 vs 4 different players.
5) Even though LAN GSTL would be amazing, I doubt it will happen so I meant online one For people who said "I wouldnt watch it if it wasnt live"...doubt so
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EPT
