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Totalbiscuit on IdrA's casting - Page 23

Forum Index > SC2 General
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{ToT}ColmA
Profile Joined November 2007
Japan3260 Posts
May 13 2011 10:22 GMT
#441
if he wants to give idra good constructive critique, why make it public. this just seems like a poor attempt by someone to get some kind of attention.

this is just silly.
The only virgins in kpop left are the fans
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
May 13 2011 10:23 GMT
#442
On May 13 2011 19:22 {ToT}ColmA wrote:
if he wants to give idra good constructive critique, why make it public. this just seems like a poor attempt by someone to get some kind of attention.

this is just silly.

Because it's a response to another public post on IdrA's casting, thus providing an alternative viewpoint, as reading the OP would tell you.
Ruscour
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
5233 Posts
May 13 2011 10:24 GMT
#443
On May 13 2011 19:21 AndAgain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 19:13 Dommk wrote:
As a caster IdrA was bad. But as an analyst he was doing a good job.

Knowledge about the game isn't even a big issue. Khaldor was pulling 6k+ viewers during assembly, pulling in non German speaking viewers, I was one of them, there is a lot more to good casting than just game knowledge.

For what NASL is, Idra was fine, at least IMO, but I wouldn't want him casting something big like a Dreamhack


Idra is not bad as a caster. Many people like myself just want someone who is very knowledgeable to give analytic commentary in a calm, collected manner. That's exactly what he does. The whole thing about him needing voice lessens or whatever is a matter of subjective preference. TB seems to think that everyone should strive to sound like himself.


Most people are not like you. The majority of people would rather hear excitement than their math lecturer (though I like my math lecturer). Preference in this thread is offtopic, but in any case, IdrA is indeed bad as a caster, he is good as an analyst, which is what TB said. It's just a shame that 80% of people are not reading the OP.
Coolwhip
Profile Joined March 2011
927 Posts
May 13 2011 10:24 GMT
#444
You gotto give TB credit for getting attention.

Yesterday he probably went like: 'MMMmm.... what can I do to get attention and hopefully more subcribers today? .. I got it! Let's write something about casting. Wait, that wont grab that much attention. Aha! I'll add in Idra and how he is bad at casting' Instant thousands of fanboys being all over it.

User was temp banned for this post.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
May 13 2011 10:27 GMT
#445
On May 13 2011 19:17 Rayven wrote:
Totalbiscuit calling someone else a bad caster. Oh the irony.

Idiot.

On topic: if I didn't know who Idra was and the history behind him, I'd consider him a pretty bad caster after seeing him in the NASL. TB pinpointed his exact faults, and I didn't like how he was calling the games too early, even the times he was right.

However since I am a fan of Idra, it didn't bother me much. Idra is one of the few interesting personalities in the community, and this makes his casting very interesting as well as amusing in certain places (for example when Cruncher is involved).

User was warned for this post
Nayl
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada413 Posts
May 13 2011 10:28 GMT
#446
On May 13 2011 19:24 Coolwhip wrote:
You gotto give TB credit for getting attention.

Yesterday he probably went like: 'MMMmm.... what can I do to get attention and hopefully more subcribers today? .. I got it! Let's write something about casting. Wait, that wont grab that much attention. Aha! I'll add in Idra and how he is bad at casting' Instant thousands of fanboys being all over it.


It was a constructive material; also he wasn't bashing IdrA at all, he was just putting things in perspective. In what world where someone calls a guy "one of the best in business" and get called out for bashing him?

People like you just blindly hate TB that it doesn't matter what he does.

Alas, what you also don't realize is TB's target audience isn't you or much of TL's posters.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38797 Posts
May 13 2011 10:28 GMT
#447
On May 13 2011 19:21 cnas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 19:17 Rayven wrote:
Totalbiscuit calling someone else a bad caster. Oh the irony.

Seriously? Wtf are you talking about? Maybe you should read his post first. Also what you think of TB is kind of off topic

Yeah, the problem is that somebody called IdrA his casting refreshing and more pleasant than the casting done by TB.

TB can't handle that so he goes into an offensive mode where he achieves to win some people their hearth by using the terminology of casting to criticize IdrA his sort of casting.

Then TL.net doesn't understand that TB is criticizing IdrA type of casting to make his own casting seem more "legit". But they make this completely about the persons IdrA and TB.

But the bottom line is: TB didn't like that an article said that his sort of casting was possible inferior to the casting style of IdrA.
I had a good night of sleep.
Swineflew
Profile Joined October 2010
United States61 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 10:32:38
May 13 2011 10:30 GMT
#448
On May 13 2011 19:24 Ruscour wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 19:21 AndAgain wrote:
On May 13 2011 19:13 Dommk wrote:
As a caster IdrA was bad. But as an analyst he was doing a good job.

Knowledge about the game isn't even a big issue. Khaldor was pulling 6k+ viewers during assembly, pulling in non German speaking viewers, I was one of them, there is a lot more to good casting than just game knowledge.

For what NASL is, Idra was fine, at least IMO, but I wouldn't want him casting something big like a Dreamhack


Idra is not bad as a caster. Many people like myself just want someone who is very knowledgeable to give analytic commentary in a calm, collected manner. That's exactly what he does. The whole thing about him needing voice lessens or whatever is a matter of subjective preference. TB seems to think that everyone should strive to sound like himself.


Most people are not like you. The majority of people would rather hear excitement than their math lecturer (though I like my math lecturer). Preference in this thread is offtopic, but in any case, IdrA is indeed bad as a caster, he is good as an analyst, which is what TB said. It's just a shame that 80% of people are not reading the OP.


See, here is the argument, a lot of people don't think IdrA is a bad caster and his style fits with the strategic theme of the game. I'm not going to be as presumptuous as to speak on behalf of "most people" the way you did, but I feel like there is a good number of people that enjoy that style of casting. Hence the disagreement.

Edit: To the poster above me, that is a nice way to explain how I feel. TB isn't an authority on casting, and he makes a lot of assumptions on behalf of esports, and to me citing a wiki based on live sports isn't a good basis for argument as esports isn't equal to football or soccer. I think of it more like intense chess.
CScythe
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada810 Posts
May 13 2011 10:30 GMT
#449
On May 13 2011 19:22 {ToT}ColmA wrote:
if he wants to give idra good constructive critique, why make it public. this just seems like a poor attempt by someone to get some kind of attention.

this is just silly.

This sprung to my mind as well. It really comes off as a stunt to conjure a rivalry out of nothing for the sake of publicity. He wouldn't be the first person to try to leech off IdrA's notoriety.
OrchidThief
Profile Joined April 2011
Denmark2298 Posts
May 13 2011 10:31 GMT
#450
On May 13 2011 19:04 Moskau wrote:
understand that TB is not directly insulting Idra, I read the article and the post.

However I think his philosophy for casting is incorrect. Sports casting is different from SC2 casting because of the pace of the game, as well as the scope. Most sports have strategy but are not hinged so much on it like starcraft. Of course basketball, football, soccer, hockey, ect have strategy but not to the point where it needs to be constantly remarked upon, instead the prowess of the players teamwork and backstory, is commented on as well as some play by play.

The sport that is the closest in my opinion would be baseball. It's relatively slow paced unlike most sports similar to starcraft (not constant action). It''s also based almost entirely on a one on one atmosphere (pitcher vs batter) and the strategy of batter / pitcher is complex and most important to commentate on. Only baseball can one player single handedly win a game for his team (shutout + a homerun). The game is also incredibly cerebral, you don't need to be an incredible athlete to compete, intelligence and understanding of the game is just as important, unlike sports like football / basketball (for the most part).

Now I am a huge baseball fan, and I notice that baseball casters are quite different from others generally. Play by play exists but they don't flood the airwaves with it, they stay reserved and calm. Obviously if something important happens they aknowledge it but they don't do much hype, They don't need to, as long as people understand the situation, it's hyped. At the same time, they have a conversation about the game, the strategy, what the players should do, or are thinking / should be thinking. To do this you need two players with knowledge of the game for it to work. This seems to hold up with starcraft 2, hence the most popular casters are tasteless and artosis, who follow this model fairly closely. They do the minimal play by play, while commenting on strategy, as well as do backstory / give information (what they should do), as well as entertain.

The reason why the TB method in my opinion is very uninteresting is because he is unable to hold up a conversation with the other commentator about the game. Just commentating is not interesting. It shouldn't be pass it back and forth every 2 minutes or just one guy constantly yapping on what's happening and nothing else, it should be a dialogue about the game, with the important details done in play by play. The only way I could see TB being interesting would be a 3 caster model, with 2 other analytical casters to discuss the game while he does play by play. Even then though, he would have to talk considerably less, to allow a dialogue.

It reminds me of when I watch broodwar, I always see people comment how much they love the korean casters, eventhough they can't understand them, which I find puzzling. Commentators are there to help people understand, and give insight and entertain. This isn't radio, we don't need to hear everything that's happening, we're not morons. I respect what TB is trying to do but to be honest, you're doing it wrong. I think the evidence that backs me up is the knowledgable fans absolutely hate your style, which is never a good sign. Lastly, as a sports fanatic, I find it ironic that the guy who strives to be most like a sports caster, I find the most intolerable. Unless we count klazart as a caster of course.

P.S. Sorry im on a laptop hard to type, may be some mistakes.
Also I admit I haven't listened to TB commentary in months, I mute his casts, I find them completely unwatchable. So he might have changed his style recently, my opinions are based on older casts, I assume however he has not changed.
P.S.S American league is not real baseball.


Couldn't agree more.

While the game is reasonably fastpaced, the game is essentially a game of strategy and mindgames that does not need action commentating. And while obviously people of all backgrounds should have a chance to enjoy commentating, I think it's safe to assume that if you have an interest in watching nasl, it's because you like strategy. If you wanted action, surely you would be watching casts of actiongames?

While play by play/color commentating is probably a reasonable principle to cast by, people still need a solid basic knowledge of the game, that TB doesn't posess. He has a point that there is quite a few colorcommentators, and alone pure analysis doesn't make for interesting casts but the opposite extreme is even less enjoyable.
Ruscour
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
5233 Posts
May 13 2011 10:31 GMT
#451
On May 13 2011 19:24 Coolwhip wrote:
You gotto give TB credit for getting attention.

Yesterday he probably went like: 'MMMmm.... what can I do to get attention and hopefully more subcribers today? .. I got it! Let's write something about casting. Wait, that wont grab that much attention. Aha! I'll add in Idra and how he is bad at casting' Instant thousands of fanboys being all over it.

One does not write a goddamn book about an article just for drama and attention. One would just throw out a line or two of smack and drama would flow harder, because idiots wouldn't have to bother thinking about it.

+ Show Spoiler +
For some reason I had a moment in which I thought I was in utopia, in which this was actually the case, as opposed to reality in which idiots still responded and just didn't bother reading


You could make that argument about IdrA calling out Chill on his Twitter, as many people did, even though I disagree with it because I thought he was simply pissed, as we all get from time to time. I don't think anyone with half a brain would really think that TB did this for attention, he did this because he disagrees with an article, and posted his well articulated opinion. Is that not what discussion boards are for? :-/
Condor
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Netherlands188 Posts
May 13 2011 10:33 GMT
#452
TotalBiscuit is absolutely right in his criticism on the other article, as I read it, he is not criticizing Idra at all. Misleading title. TB is totally right that "calling it like it is" is not the end of the story, and in that sense he is defending inControl and Gretorp.

Color commentators come in different varieties, I really like the Idra way of doing color commentary. If you would get a transcript of the commentary, some of the things he says can go straight into strategy guides. But it probably is not "colorful" commentary.

However, given that anyway we can watch an amazing amount of matches, pick what you like. If you want to learn a lot, go to some of Idra's casts. If you don't, there's plenty of other stuff.
Nayl
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada413 Posts
May 13 2011 10:33 GMT
#453
On May 13 2011 19:28 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 19:21 cnas wrote:
On May 13 2011 19:17 Rayven wrote:
Totalbiscuit calling someone else a bad caster. Oh the irony.

Seriously? Wtf are you talking about? Maybe you should read his post first. Also what you think of TB is kind of off topic

Yeah, the problem is that somebody called IdrA his casting refreshing and more pleasant than the casting done by TB.

TB can't handle that so he goes into an offensive mode where he achieves to win some people their hearth by using the terminology of casting to criticize IdrA his sort of casting.

Then TL.net doesn't understand that TB is criticizing IdrA type of casting to make his own casting seem more "legit". But they make this completely about the persons IdrA and TB.

But the bottom line is: TB didn't like that an article said that his sort of casting was possible inferior to the casting style of IdrA.


Yes, that is probably what triggered TB's response, but that doesn't make what he is pointing out any less valid. His casting methods are in fact, "legit", proven by the fact that the most popular sc caster is hd/husky, and not some analytical casters.
Tofugrinder
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria899 Posts
May 13 2011 10:33 GMT
#454
how can TB call someone else a bad caster? TB maybe makes a fun show for some people but it's really not something I personally would like to see.

@Idras casting: I disagree with Idras atitude very often, but I have to say: he IS a good caster. Of course he has something to improve, but his analysis in the NASL so far have been great
Ruscour
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
5233 Posts
May 13 2011 10:35 GMT
#455
On May 13 2011 19:30 Swineflew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 19:24 Ruscour wrote:
On May 13 2011 19:21 AndAgain wrote:
On May 13 2011 19:13 Dommk wrote:
As a caster IdrA was bad. But as an analyst he was doing a good job.

Knowledge about the game isn't even a big issue. Khaldor was pulling 6k+ viewers during assembly, pulling in non German speaking viewers, I was one of them, there is a lot more to good casting than just game knowledge.

For what NASL is, Idra was fine, at least IMO, but I wouldn't want him casting something big like a Dreamhack


Idra is not bad as a caster. Many people like myself just want someone who is very knowledgeable to give analytic commentary in a calm, collected manner. That's exactly what he does. The whole thing about him needing voice lessens or whatever is a matter of subjective preference. TB seems to think that everyone should strive to sound like himself.


Most people are not like you. The majority of people would rather hear excitement than their math lecturer (though I like my math lecturer). Preference in this thread is offtopic, but in any case, IdrA is indeed bad as a caster, he is good as an analyst, which is what TB said. It's just a shame that 80% of people are not reading the OP.


See, here is the argument, a lot of people don't think IdrA is a bad caster and his style fits with the strategic theme of the game. I'm not going to be as presumptuous as to speak on behalf of "most people" the way you did, but I feel like there is a good number of people that enjoy that style of casting. Hence the disagreement.


Caster, not analyst. Would you really watch an IdrA solo cast (where was both) for fun and not for strategy? I wasn't being presumptuous, it's fact. TB references it himself on Reddit; Husky, HD and TB's casts pull more viewers than any of the tournaments. Hope that makes things clearer about what I was saying.
Swineflew
Profile Joined October 2010
United States61 Posts
May 13 2011 10:35 GMT
#456
On May 13 2011 19:31 Ruscour wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 19:24 Coolwhip wrote:
You gotto give TB credit for getting attention.

Yesterday he probably went like: 'MMMmm.... what can I do to get attention and hopefully more subcribers today? .. I got it! Let's write something about casting. Wait, that wont grab that much attention. Aha! I'll add in Idra and how he is bad at casting' Instant thousands of fanboys being all over it.

One does not write a goddamn book about an article just for drama and attention. One would just throw out a line or two of smack and drama would flow harder, because idiots wouldn't have to bother thinking about it.


You mean a line or two at the start of his article like this?
"he is too quiet, he is frequently monotone, he stumbles in his speech, he has no flow to speak of, he lacks the ability to express passion and emotion."
Ruscour
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
5233 Posts
May 13 2011 10:36 GMT
#457
On May 13 2011 19:35 Swineflew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 19:31 Ruscour wrote:
On May 13 2011 19:24 Coolwhip wrote:
You gotto give TB credit for getting attention.

Yesterday he probably went like: 'MMMmm.... what can I do to get attention and hopefully more subcribers today? .. I got it! Let's write something about casting. Wait, that wont grab that much attention. Aha! I'll add in Idra and how he is bad at casting' Instant thousands of fanboys being all over it.

One does not write a goddamn book about an article just for drama and attention. One would just throw out a line or two of smack and drama would flow harder, because idiots wouldn't have to bother thinking about it.


You mean a line or two at the start of his article like this?
"he is too quiet, he is frequently monotone, he stumbles in his speech, he has no flow to speak of, he lacks the ability to express passion and emotion."


Yet another person who didn't read the two lines after that? I give up on this thread.
Nayl
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada413 Posts
May 13 2011 10:37 GMT
#458
On May 13 2011 19:35 Swineflew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 19:31 Ruscour wrote:
On May 13 2011 19:24 Coolwhip wrote:
You gotto give TB credit for getting attention.

Yesterday he probably went like: 'MMMmm.... what can I do to get attention and hopefully more subcribers today? .. I got it! Let's write something about casting. Wait, that wont grab that much attention. Aha! I'll add in Idra and how he is bad at casting' Instant thousands of fanboys being all over it.

One does not write a goddamn book about an article just for drama and attention. One would just throw out a line or two of smack and drama would flow harder, because idiots wouldn't have to bother thinking about it.


You mean a line or two at the start of his article like this?
"he is too quiet, he is frequently monotone, he stumbles in his speech, he has no flow to speak of, he lacks the ability to express passion and emotion."


And what was so untrue about that statement?

Did you miss the line right after that said:
"He is however, an analyst of exceptional skill and calibre, easily one of the best in the business."
sharky246
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
1197 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 10:39:19
May 13 2011 10:38 GMT
#459
Yeah, nothing wrong with wat TB had to say
Yeah, the problem is that somebody called IdrA his casting refreshing and more pleasant than the casting done by TB.

TB can't handle that so he goes into an offensive mode where he achieves to win some people their hearth by using the terminology of casting to criticize IdrA his sort of casting.


But i reakon all this commotion derived out of his ego problem, if ^ is true.
On January 03 2011 13:14 IdrA wrote: being high on the ladder doesnt get you any closer to your goal. Avoiding practice to protect your rating is absurd. If you want to be good go play 40 games a day and stop thinking about becoming a pro.
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
May 13 2011 10:39 GMT
#460
imho the core of this discussion is that viewers of vastly differing skill level will not only prefer but almost require different types of casting. TB is a great caster for casuals, but he lacks the analytical depth of guys like day9 or idra.

actually this is, in my opinion, the true reason why tastosis is the best casting duo: they can give both casuals and very good players a good viewing experience without having to switch between analytical and casual "casting mode" too much.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
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