Totalbiscuit on IdrA's casting - Page 22

On May 13 2011 19:09 Swineflew wrote:


I still stand by my point that "he is too quiet, he is frequently monotone, he stumbles in his speech, he has no flow to speak of, he lacks the ability to express passion and emotion." is somewhat of a personal attack.

On May 13 2011 19:06 zeru wrote:

Can you even make an attempt at reading only a couple sentences of what he wrote before you come and fuel the pointless drama? Why are people so damn lazy.

On May 13 2011 18:47 Deskaru wrote:

So you prefer someone shitting all over your ears for X amount of minutes without you really knowing what is going on?

On May 13 2011 18:55 Bergys wrote:


I partly agree with this. If the score is 5-0 and it's 2 minutes left of a game no hockey commentator is going to hype it up and say that the losing team still has a shot at it. On numerous occasions have I heard hockey commentators say things like 'this is not good hockey being played' or something in similar fashion. If you continously hype bad games and bad decisions you have no credibility left for when actual good moves do happen. Casters should obviously try to create excitement but if the game is really bad I don't want to hear a fake 'AND HE TAKES THE GAME, BLABLA IS FORCED TO TAP OUT! WHAT A GREAT GAME!' It would be better if they joked around instead, creating entertainment. F.ex. I always found games with bitbybitprime hilarious since Artosis would come up with snide comments regarding how he would all-in and stuff like that. The games weren't good at all but the commentary made it entertaining.

On May 13 2011 19:09 Swineflew wrote:


I still stand by my point that "he is too quiet, he is frequently monotone, he stumbles in his speech, he has no flow to speak of, he lacks the ability to express passion and emotion." is somewhat of a personal attack.
Most of TB's post had nothing to do with what I quoted, it was with things that casters should/shouldn't say and how games should be cast. This was in a response to a gosu.com article stating that things that IdrA said (read:not how he said them) are actually good for casting.

On May 13 2011 19:12 Dfgj wrote:

Disagree, purely because these are almost all things that can be looked at objectively. It's a comment on his casting, not his character. If IdrA was to turn around and say TB has terrible multitask in SC2, that too is a comment on a mechanical aspect that can be examined and not the person.

Remember that how people cast games and how people talk/act normally are usually not the same, and expressing emotion/speaking well publicly is often more difficult than talking naturally.

I find this debate very interesting as it kind of might determine in which direction SC2 will go to in the future.
I imagine a lot of bronze, silver and gold leaguers to follow the competitive scene without having an analytical or intellectual access to it. In other words: They just consume pro games like people who never really played soccer, but still watch the World Championship for entertainment's sake, do.

And then there is this 2 to 5% of master's league players where 50% of them believe that SC2 is too casual, too noob friendly and being dumbed down by Blizzard to please the masses. And I consider a lot of these people to favor Idra's commentating over a more emotional and enthusiastic way of casting.
Anyhow, I kinda get the impression that these people forget why SC2 has become so professional in such a short time: It is because a lot of people care for this game and not only a small circle of BW-elitists.

If you want SC2 to become big so that players can actually make a decent living of it, if you want your big leagues and tournaments to stay as big and professional as they are, then accept that SC2 and all entertainment related to it has to appeal to a broad group of people - including those who don't care about analysis and just want to hear TB or Husky screaming into the mic.

On May 13 2011 19:17 Rayven wrote:
Totalbiscuit calling someone else a bad caster. Oh the irony.

On May 13 2011 19:10 Daewon wrote:
I can honestly say that TotalBiscuit is my least favorite caster of all time. Not because of him critisizing Idra or anything like that but rather, he has absolutely zero knowledge about the game, NADA!. All TB does is confirm what is going on in the game, while being overly excited about everything, even the smallest things. WHOA and he places the GEYSER!!! HE DID IT!!!. to a point where it just becomes plain annoying, in fact after some time listening to him, it's hard to get excited by anything related to the game (Scarlett Johansson still works though).

As for Idra, I agree he doesn't show his excitement, he's much more suttle in his humour and passion, my god though does he have knowledge of the game, he is probably my second favorite caster. Favorite caster of all time - Artosis. The thing is, it's impossible to be a good caster without being very good at the game at the same time. Explains why Tastelesss and Day9 are also great casters.

On May 13 2011 19:13 Dommk wrote:
As a caster IdrA was bad. But as an analyst he was doing a good job.

Knowledge about the game isn't even a big issue. Khaldor was pulling 6k+ viewers during assembly, pulling in non German speaking viewers, I was one of them, there is a lot more to good casting than just game knowledge.

For what NASL is, Idra was fine, at least IMO, but I wouldn't want him casting something big like a Dreamhack

On May 13 2011 19:17 Rayven wrote:
Totalbiscuit calling someone else a bad caster. Oh the irony.

It is not the play-by-play casters job to tell you when a game is over, it is the play-by-play casters job to heighten tension, provoke emotion and increase the viewer's excitement. You cannot do that by calling a game before it ends. The climax of a game should be the GG, regardless of whether or not it's blatantly too late. You call a GG 10 minutes before it actually happens, even if it's absolutely the right call, then you stop engaging a good portion of your viewers, specifically the majority of the viewerbase, the casuals who are there for entertainment. In-depth analysis in sports is generally done post-game, not mid-game. There is definitely space for analysis, plenty of it, but drowning a viewer in 10 mins of in-depth analysis of how Player A fucked up while the game is still going on in the background, will turn off the casual viewer.

On May 13 2011 19:04 Moskau wrote:
understand that TB is not directly insulting Idra, I read the article and the post.

However I think his philosophy for casting is incorrect. Sports casting is different from SC2 casting because of the pace of the game, as well as the scope. Most sports have strategy but are not hinged so much on it like starcraft. Of course basketball, football, soccer, hockey, ect have strategy but not to the point where it needs to be constantly remarked upon, instead the prowess of the players teamwork and backstory, is commented on as well as some play by play.

The sport that is the closest in my opinion would be baseball. It's relatively slow paced unlike most sports similar to starcraft (not constant action). It''s also based almost entirely on a one on one atmosphere (pitcher vs batter) and the strategy of batter / pitcher is complex and most important to commentate on. Only baseball can one player single handedly win a game for his team (shutout + a homerun). The game is also incredibly cerebral, you don't need to be an incredible athlete to compete, intelligence and understanding of the game is just as important, unlike sports like football / basketball (for the most part).

Now I am a huge baseball fan, and I notice that baseball casters are quite different from others generally. Play by play exists but they don't flood the airwaves with it, they stay reserved and calm. Obviously if something important happens they aknowledge it but they don't do much hype, They don't need to, as long as people understand the situation, it's hyped. At the same time, they have a conversation about the game, the strategy, what the players should do, or are thinking / should be thinking. To do this you need two players with knowledge of the game for it to work. This seems to hold up with starcraft 2, hence the most popular casters are tasteless and artosis, who follow this model fairly closely. They do the minimal play by play, while commenting on strategy, as well as do backstory / give information (what they should do), as well as entertain.

The reason why the TB method in my opinion is very uninteresting is because he is unable to hold up a conversation with the other commentator about the game. Just commentating is not interesting. It shouldn't be pass it back and forth every 2 minutes or just one guy constantly yapping on what's happening and nothing else, it should be a dialogue about the game, with the important details done in play by play. The only way I could see TB being interesting would be a 3 caster model, with 2 other analytical casters to discuss the game while he does play by play. Even then though, he would have to talk considerably less, to allow a dialogue.

It reminds me of when I watch broodwar, I always see people comment how much they love the korean casters, eventhough they can't understand them, which I find puzzling. Commentators are there to help people understand, and give insight and entertain. This isn't radio, we don't need to hear everything that's happening, we're not morons. I respect what TB is trying to do but to be honest, you're doing it wrong. I think the evidence that backs me up is the knowledgable fans absolutely hate your style, which is never a good sign. Lastly, as a sports fanatic, I find it ironic that the guy who strives to be most like a sports caster, I find the most intolerable. Unless we count klazart as a caster of course.

P.S. Sorry im on a laptop hard to type, may be some mistakes.
Also I admit I haven't listened to TB commentary in months, I mute his casts, I find them completely unwatchable. So he might have changed his style recently, my opinions are based on older casts, I assume however he has not changed.
P.S.S American league is not real baseball.

Commentators are there to help people understand, and give insight and entertain. This isn't radio, we don't need to hear everything that's happening, we're not morons.