EPTTotalbiscuit on IdrA's casting - Page 21
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zeru
8156 Posts
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Denia1
148 Posts
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Mycl
Australia1370 Posts
On May 13 2011 18:47 Deskaru wrote: So you prefer someone shitting all over your ears for X amount of minutes without you really knowing what is going on? How else do you not get distracted by all the shiny things on your desk? | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
He is my favourite. User was warned for this post | ||
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Moskau
114 Posts
However I think his philosophy for casting is incorrect. Sports casting is different from SC2 casting because of the pace of the game, as well as the scope. Most sports have strategy but are not hinged so much on it like starcraft. Of course basketball, football, soccer, hockey, ect have strategy but not to the point where it needs to be constantly remarked upon, instead the prowess of the players teamwork and backstory, is commented on as well as some play by play. The sport that is the closest in my opinion would be baseball. It's relatively slow paced unlike most sports similar to starcraft (not constant action). It''s also based almost entirely on a one on one atmosphere (pitcher vs batter) and the strategy of batter / pitcher is complex and most important to commentate on. Only baseball can one player single handedly win a game for his team (shutout + a homerun). The game is also incredibly cerebral, you don't need to be an incredible athlete to compete, intelligence and understanding of the game is just as important, unlike sports like football / basketball (for the most part). Now I am a huge baseball fan, and I notice that baseball casters are quite different from others generally. Play by play exists but they don't flood the airwaves with it, they stay reserved and calm. Obviously if something important happens they aknowledge it but they don't do much hype, They don't need to, as long as people understand the situation, it's hyped. At the same time, they have a conversation about the game, the strategy, what the players should do, or are thinking / should be thinking. To do this you need two players with knowledge of the game for it to work. This seems to hold up with starcraft 2, hence the most popular casters are tasteless and artosis, who follow this model fairly closely. They do the minimal play by play, while commenting on strategy, as well as do backstory / give information (what they should do), as well as entertain. The reason why the TB method in my opinion is very uninteresting is because he is unable to hold up a conversation with the other commentator about the game. Just commentating is not interesting. It shouldn't be pass it back and forth every 2 minutes or just one guy constantly yapping on what's happening and nothing else, it should be a dialogue about the game, with the important details done in play by play. The only way I could see TB being interesting would be a 3 caster model, with 2 other analytical casters to discuss the game while he does play by play. Even then though, he would have to talk considerably less, to allow a dialogue. It reminds me of when I watch broodwar, I always see people comment how much they love the korean casters, eventhough they can't understand them, which I find puzzling. Commentators are there to help people understand, and give insight and entertain. This isn't radio, we don't need to hear everything that's happening, we're not morons. I respect what TB is trying to do but to be honest, you're doing it wrong. I think the evidence that backs me up is the knowledgable fans absolutely hate your style, which is never a good sign. Lastly, as a sports fanatic, I find it ironic that the guy who strives to be most like a sports caster, I find the most intolerable. Unless we count klazart as a caster of course. P.S. Sorry im on a laptop hard to type, may be some mistakes. Also I admit I haven't listened to TB commentary in months, I mute his casts, I find them completely unwatchable. So he might have changed his style recently, my opinions are based on older casts, I assume however he has not changed. P.S.S American league is not real baseball. | ||
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AJ-
United States316 Posts
wheat day9 tasteless artosis having a play-by-play and analytical duo naturally brings a dialogue to the game that you're watching that both follows and explains what is going on. it lets viewers in on an experience and have questions answered that they wouldn't ask. a commentary is good when you can listen to it on its own and understand what's going on, like all the millions of people who follow games on the radio when theyre driving or without a tv. idra's on point with the game but i would have to be watching the stream edit: also, I remember when I first got into broodwar during tsl2 and I was amazed at the stuff that artosis and day9 pointed out (build orders, gameplay) but chill gets the spotlight when nony demolishes the idra's entire army with a million storms. commentators should recognize when amazing things are done, both tiny and apocalyptically huge. | ||
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Tyree
1508 Posts
It is like saying LeBron James is a terrible fucking golf player, i doubt LeBron would get too offended by that. (not that Idra is anywhere close to being LeBron but Idra is probably alot more polite in public than LeBrick  )I am not a Idra fan at all, hell i love watching the guy lose just as much as anyone, but him casting is just something he is doing for fun, its like saying Artosis is playing crap in NASL, he is a caster who does not have much time to play and he recently switched to Protoss, the fact that he is close to getting into GM in the Korea servers is a miracle on its own and shows his skill | ||
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Grend
1600 Posts
, But I hate play by play so I would just prefer having only "color analysis" as Wikipedia calls it. I prefer the ingame music and sounds to some guy telling me what I can see for myself. I`m not deaf. I want the commentators to commentate on metagame, strategy, and things that are actually amazing, not what someone who does not know jack thinks looks amazing. | ||
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Zauvryn
United States18 Posts
Really, after seeing the post that unequivocally called anyone preferring TB's play-by-play style to Idra's analysis a 12 year old WoW player, I feel compelled to point out that's exactly the kind of post you'd expect to see on the official Battle.net forums. This kind of reaction does no kindness to the reputation of Team Liquid and the Starcraft community at large. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
New player: I dislike analytical commentators because I just want to be entertained and don't care about details. Experienced player: I dislike analytical commentators because I already understand the game. In the end it comes down to personal preference on that note. TB does bring up objective issues with IdrA's casting, but it depends on whether you as a viewer place those aspects highly or not. If you're more in it for the analysis, poor casting 'mechanics' won't bug you as much (and vice versa for someone watching TB). | ||
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TALegion
United States1187 Posts
I prefer and intelligent, in depth casting than an exciting, non educational one where the caster just screams what's happening. I want to know WHY it's happening, what it will mean later on, and why it will/won't work, and where the players will go from there. (not saying TB is bad, but I like IdrA more, and I'm not even a very large IdrA fan) | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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Eka
Sweden71 Posts
And he is saying Idra is bad, cuz Idra doesnt do the same? When Idras trait is that DEEEEP artotis style casting where they both are 2-3 steps ahead of almost everything going on. So with TB huge lack of knowledge of the game he is having an oppinion about what he thinks SC2 casting should be, when he dont know much about SC2 in general. Thats just not right. Dunno, I suspect that there is a deeper issue lying around. User was warned for this post | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On May 13 2011 19:07 Eka wrote: I think its kind of strange that TB is hatin' on Idra I don't see any hate except from exceptionally angry TLposters. | ||
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bennyaus
Australia1833 Posts
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Swineflew
United States61 Posts
On May 13 2011 19:01 Anzekay wrote: So it's funny that a man has an opinion... Just like you do? And nevermind the lack of reading to discover that TB is, in fact, not hating on Idra. The sheer amount of people in this thread failing to grasp this (even with Nazgul himself posting!) is somewhat disapointing =/ I still stand by my point that "he is too quiet, he is frequently monotone, he stumbles in his speech, he has no flow to speak of, he lacks the ability to express passion and emotion." is somewhat of a personal attack. Most of TB's post had nothing to do with what I quoted, it was with things that casters should/shouldn't say and how games should be cast. This was in a response to a gosu.com article stating that things that IdrA said (read:not how he said them) are actually good for casting. | ||
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Pinevale
Sweden7 Posts
What he says is that Idra is a bad caster, but has all the criteria to be amazing once he's tried casting a bit more and improves in those areas he mentioned. He acknowledges that Idra's gameplay knowledge and analysis is incredible. How can people actually manage to miss that? What he really wants to is for other casters to understand what makes watching the game exciting, he wants everyone to improve. It's the same way how Day9 made everyone understand the principles of macro, of making drones, which most people seem to understand nowadays. He basically wants casters to up the game and make Starcraft even more awesome for everyone. Way to flame, fellas! | ||
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Escapist
Portugal548 Posts
On those particular casts he did solo, his voice was monotone, no excitement whatsoever and showed lack of emotion wich is one side to what casting should be and it was lacking on these particular examples. To me it felt basically like i was getting a horse tranquilizer shot and was getting completly numb by it. Even worse! he would pause the action in the middle of a match to "sell" some RAM thingys...not good for me. Now, on the other hand i've enjoyed a lot more to see IdrA co-casting with DJWeath or Gretorp. IdrA makes the analytical part (to wich hes brilliant and has a deep insight into) and his co-caster brings some thrills to the table and a voice tone with enough decibels to be clearly heard and transmit emotion to all of us viewers. So, bashing caster A, B or everyone of them because you like IdrA that much doesnt please me tbh. Theres a lot of dedication and commitment behind casting and providing content to the community. For that only, you all should at least respect the work being done and skip on the trashtalking. There wouldnt be the ammounts of content currently available to watch if a lot of people didnt sat down and made hours of livestreaming / casting / editing / encoding / uploading. For the ones who can only stand listening to 1 or 2 casters and bash all others, take 5 mins and go check how many VODs your favorite caster did the past 2 months and tell me how many games would you be watching daily if only them existed in this SC2 world. Adressing the two specific casters on this thread: @ IdrA, love your deep insight into the game and would be a pleasure to see you more often aslong as you get teamed up with another co-caster. @ TotalBiscuit thank you for all the content you provide to the community and hopefully you'll be around to keep rolling over the nay-sayers with your public thick skin, wich im sure you already grown quite a long time ago To all other casters: keep doing what you love the most and if thats casting SC2 then so be it. There wouldnt be the ammount of Streams / VODs currently available without all of your effort, so thank you. Peace. | ||
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shinarit
Hungary900 Posts
On May 13 2011 18:06 danson wrote: "TotalBiscuit is not a good caster. He does not have the training to be a good caster, he is too ignorant, he is frequently oblivious to game situations, he talks about irrelavant parts of the game in his speech, he doesnt know when to quit talking, and he lacks the ability to convince the audience that he has any more clue whats going on in the game than they do" This was funny, i agree, that part was like totally useless. The other part of the article is ok. Its like the SC2 bashing in the elephant article. Just makes you look worse for no reason, when you have some good points - but its much harder to hear them now. Also, the text reminded me of day9, almost all fits, only the last: he CAN convince big masses that he knows more. | ||
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Daewon
127 Posts
As for Idra, I agree he doesn't show his excitement, he's much more suttle in his humour and passion, my god though does he have knowledge of the game, he is probably my second favorite caster. Favorite caster of all time - Artosis. The thing is, it's impossible to be a good caster without being very good at the game at the same time. Explains why Tastelesss and Day9 are also great casters. | ||
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