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Sneakyz
Sweden2361 Posts
On May 13 2011 18:32 zeru wrote:] TB pointed out facts about idras casting. What facts that are bad can you point out about TB's casting that are bad, I'm sure he would listen to it. I will not comment on TB's casting, but from the various threads I've seen with him posting in, he seems to not be very receptive to, even constructive, criticism. | ||
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XiaN
Germany162 Posts
On May 13 2011 18:33 Contra1 wrote: I agee, people here don't seem to realise or care what TB's message actually is. In conjunction with someones comment on this saying "I totally read this with his shoutcasting voice in mind" ones i read the title of the thread here ... i instantly headed over http://gobarbra.com/hit/new-9633ecb001acbb92be24e3797b12af1c and read the first pages with that in a loop. And oh boy was i rewarded. Now i'm in a good mood all day ^_^ I'm honestly shocked on how a totally valid opinion ( if you agree with it or not ) is just blindly flamed after reading nothing more than the authors name. I highly doubt that the majority has read his comment beyond the first two sentences. If Day9 would have posted that comment we would have a 20 pages thread full of praise. Somebody should really make a study on that. Just posting a TB comment under Day9's name. Just for the sake of seeing how people react :D EDIT I will not comment on TB's casting, but from the various threads I've seen with him posting in, he seems to not be very receptive to, even constructive, criticism. He started his "I suck at StarCraft2" streams / yt videos because the community stated his lack of ingame knowledge. Now he streams 2 hours of ladder practice every day .. and soly because the community constructively criticized on that. He agreed and is now working on changing that. | ||
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Niten
United States598 Posts
I read the TB counterpoint, and I first read Jeff's op-ed at gosu.com. The issue discussed is actually not Idra's casting. We're talking about casting and what Idra is bringing to the table, in Jeff's opinion: "blunt honesty." TB responds by giving perspective as an active known caster: It is not the play-by-play casters job to tell you when a game is over, it is the play-by-play casters job to heighten tension, provoke emotion and increase the viewer’s excitement. You cannot do that by calling a game before it ends. The climax of a game should be the GG, regardless of whether or not it’s blatantly too late. You call a GG 10 minutes before it actually happens, even if it’s absolutely the right call, then you stop engaging a good portion of your viewers, specifically the majority of the viewerbase, the casuals who are there for entertainment. In-depth analysis in sports is generally done post-game, not mid-game. There is definitely space for analysis, plenty of it, but drowning a viewer in 10 mins of in-depth analysis of how Player A fucked up while the game is still going on in the background, will turn off the casual viewer. http://gosu.com/2011/05/counter-point-totalbiscuits-response-to-our-casting-article/ This is valuable stuff here, the opinion of an active working pro(?) caster, and he's right -- you can't create an entertaining product of a game AND call GG too early. It's interesting to think about the viewership, too, but that's not what I want to home in on: In-depth analysis in sports is generally done post-game, not mid-game. What the hell are we doing working by sport's model? E-sports is ours, for fuck's sake. Am I missing something? Why isn't there more thought going into questioning the assumptions and lineage underpinning it. | ||
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Jiddra
Sweden2685 Posts
Have Idra really casted games?? Where is the vod of him casting, not being the colour? Either I have missed som new super casting style from Idra, or people are confused about TBs use of caster/PbP/colour. On May 13 2011 18:41 Truenappa wrote: What the hell are we doing working by sport's model? E-sports is ours, for fuck's sake. Am I missing something? Why isn't there more thought going into questioning the assumptions and lineage underpinning it. But there is a lack of post-game analysis. To think that you can cover all that midgame, while shit is flying and burning in 2-3 places at the same time, is just silly. Some of the better casting moments have been when day9 have put on the replay after a match and discussed what we just saw. A great addition to todays casting. SC2 casting should be more dynamic, now it's like nobody have the guts to do anything out of the ordinary. | ||
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outerspace02
United States136 Posts
the intent is right (i guess) but its quite sad that they both feel like it is their responsibility to get on a platform and speak for everyone when they either are unable or unwilling to listen to their own advice | ||
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cnas
Sweden640 Posts
I'm very into ice hockey aswell, and if you compare how the casters handle a situation where a team is looking to be losing there: What they usually do is to say that much can happen in a short time, and they often back this up with examples from the past, where a team came back from a great deficit. This is good I think to keep the tension up to the last freaking second of the game. | ||
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CScythe
Canada810 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On May 13 2011 18:29 Jesushooves wrote: "IdrA is not a good caster" How do you misinterpret that!? Totalbiscuit isn't doing this to help IdrA, if he did he would tell IdrA in private, he is simply doing this to discredit IdrA because a significant amount of people (enough to warrant an article) prefer IdrA's casting style over that of his own. He explains the "not a good caster" in the following sentences and in the very same paragraph there is this sentence: "He is however, an analyst of exceptional skill and calibre, easily one of the best in the business." How do you get to the opinion that TB means to say that Idra is horrible to have as one of the commentators of a match? I honestly am interpreting the article completely different and not negative at all. | ||
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
That way the viewers get the liveaction they want AND the deep insight (just inbetween games) - just the way the real Sports on TV is working. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On May 13 2011 18:36 thirnaz wrote: Maybe for the average 12 year old WoW player this is true (me 6 years ago) but when you get older and actually UNDERSTAND the game you want someone analytical to explain in depth the small pieces that puts the puzzle together, someone like IdrA I'm 29, Diamond league (though quite inactive) and prefer TB over IdrAs casts any day because i want to be entertained when i watch SC, not educated - i can watch replays on my own. Calling everyone who prefers play-by-play 12 year old wow players with no SC skill is quite... condescending, especially since you are just quite a youngster yourself. There are people who watch for entertainment and people who watch for insight, having someone like IdrA paired with an entertaining caster provides the best of both worlds, so why not have that? | ||
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On May 13 2011 18:29 Jesushooves wrote: "IdrA is not a good caster" How do you misinterpret that!? Totalbiscuit isn't doing this to help IdrA, if he did he would tell IdrA in private, he is simply doing this to discredit IdrA because a significant amount of people (enough to warrant an article) prefer IdrA's casting style over that of his own. So it that the same reason why Idra has bad-mouthed HD and Husky in the past? | ||
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Swineflew
United States61 Posts
On May 13 2011 18:41 XiaN wrote: In conjunction with someones comment on this saying "I totally read this with his shoutcasting voice in mind" ones i read the title of the thread here ... i instantly headed over http://gobarbra.com/hit/new-9633ecb001acbb92be24e3797b12af1c and read the first pages with that in a loop. And oh boy was i rewarded. Now i'm in a good mood all day ^_^ I'm honestly shocked on how a totally valid opinion ( if you agree with it or not ) is just blindly flamed after reading nothing more than the authors name. I highly doubt that the majority has read his comment beyond the first two sentences. If Day9 would have posted that comment we would have a 20 pages thread full of praise. Somebody should really make a study on that. Just posting a TB comment under Day9's name. Just for the sake of seeing how people react :D Except most of us wouldn't think Day[9] would say things like "he is too quiet, he is frequently monotone, he stumbles in his speech, he has no flow to speak of, he lacks the ability to express passion and emotion." He would just give the criticism and move on, which would have more than likely gotten a much better response, which really isn't the point. I think the root of the argument is based on the styles of how games are cast, and which better fits SC2. | ||
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outerspace02
United States136 Posts
What the hell are we doing working by sport's model? E-sports is ours, for fuck's sake. Am I missing something? Why isn't there more thought going into questioning the assumptions and lineage underpinning it. because the genres are remarkably similar and they have spent 40+ years and a ridiculous sum of money perfecting the art? lol... | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
But I don't think he should have come out and said "Idra is not a good caster". I think he should have just went on with his whole page of talking about casting without saying anything about IdrA. It would have saved him a headache. That said, I love IdrA's casting more than TBs. So meh. Also, how come people are just calling people who disagree with TB an Idra Fanboy? =\ Argue the point, not who's side they are on. | ||
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Zeke50100
United States2220 Posts
"He is not a good caster" "OMG WTF BASHING?!?!?!?!?!" Uh, no. Not that. | ||
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KristianJS
2107 Posts
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Valashu
Netherlands561 Posts
TB is leaving me no choice but to assume he is looking for attention. | ||
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JuuMeijin
Sweden164 Posts
On May 13 2011 18:43 Morfildur wrote: I'm 29, Diamond league (though quite inactive) and prefer TB over IdrAs casts any day because i want to be entertained when i watch SC, not educated - i can watch replays on my own. Calling everyone who prefers play-by-play 12 year old wow players with no SC skill is quite... condescending, especially since you are just quite a youngster yourself. There are people who watch for entertainment and people who watch for insight, having someone like IdrA paired with an entertaining caster provides the best of both worlds, so why not have that? So you prefer someone shitting all over your ears for X amount of minutes without you really knowing what is going on? User was warned for this post | ||
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Seide
United States831 Posts
On May 13 2011 18:45 KristianJS wrote: I agree with his point about calling the gg too early. It really does make things a lot less exciting. I mean sure, if it's blatantly over in one or two minutes, you can call it, but you really should try to avoid calling it as much as possible. Or you can call it and do what Artosis/Tasteless do: analyze the game, where exactly the turning point was for the losing player, and what the losing player could of done to potentially avoid the loss. There will always be times when there will be games that the only reason they are not over is because the opponent hasn't gged yet. You just have to properly fill that airtime. | ||
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outerspace02
United States136 Posts
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