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On May 13 2011 16:13 Ksi wrote:Better get your flamesuit on, Totalbiscut. Considering how much TB is hated by this community, this will not end well.
What basis do you have for saying this ? Some people like him, some people don't. If he was generally hated he would just stop. He is popular with the MLG organisers and the IPL people. They want him to cast for them. Do you think they want him out of spite to the viewers ? No. Obviously he is popular enough to stick around. Its posts like this that makes me sad for the new community. It lacks any other content than your opinion, which you brand as "the whole communitys opinion".
If you want to know what happens to casters that are generally unpopular, search around for BigT.
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Totally disagree with TB's point. IdrA gets me more excited for the games than TB/Husky does. It's not boring at all, and it's super entertaining.
When i watch something, i know what's going on. What gets me excited is when IdrA/artosis/whoever explains why this is good or bad, and all the different possibilities and outcomes of something.
And also i find it really annoying when a game is clearly over and the commentator just keep rambling on about stuff instead of just calling it. If the game is over and it just drags out, then the game was bad, not the commentator.
So yea i feel like commentators like IdrA are better in every sense, even play by play. Still enjoy TB or Husky casting though, but IdrA is just so great at it. (and IdrA/gretorp is actually one of my favorite combos ;D)
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This is a post that is very likely to be taken wrongly, mostly because people weren't calling IdrA a play-by-play caster. I don't think very many people who watch Starcraft know all of these terms that apparently matter to Totalbiscuit.
I don't know anything about professional casting to know that there has to be a "play by play guy" and an "analyst guy." We thankfully had Tastosis show us that basically from the very beginning.
Since I don't know these different terms, I consider them both to be "casters" or "commentators" interchangeably. This is why "Idra is not a good caster" right off the bat sets the mood all wrong in my head.
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I love listening to idra cast. I don't like when casters 'try to hype up the game' by saying misleading things.
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Good read by TotalBiscuit.
The main problem I see within e-sports commentating, especially starcraft II commentating is that there is a wide variety of people watching the matches. I'd say the % of hc-gamers to casual gamers is a lot higher than in other sports. The more common and "professional" approach might be better for the casuals but can also be a huge turn off to the hc-people.
Well I guess time will show.
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I've not heard Idra cast a game yet, but I totally agree with the GG situation, TB kept mentioning sport in his reddit posts yet in a sport like Hockey/"soccer" you wouldnt overhype a game if a team was 3-0 down with 5 mins to play metaphorically speaking.
For me TB doesn't cut it for me as a Caster for 2 reasons - Not experienced enough, He's a Gold level player for a reason, a level where ladder games just consists of all-ins meaning he hasn't witnessed a proper game 1st-hand yet - you can also tell just by watching his stream, I'm only a Gold level player myself but the games always consist of a 2/3 rax all-in or the occasional 1/1/1 and when he gets an absurd amount of resources he just builds anything which costs whatever hes stocked up on with no forward planning - He gets completely lost if the initial push fails in a nutshell.
2nd reason is witnessed first-hand by myself since I'm from the same city as him is his accent - Everyone outside the UK who I talk to hates my accent so it's no surprise there really 
I do enjoy watching his stream for entertainment purposes, I don't learn anything from watching him and I enjoyed watching the iSeries tournament but I don't enjoy watching the high-level games and I think he has no right to criticise Idra for that.
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On May 13 2011 17:58 RmoteCntrld wrote:
TB judging IdrA as a play by play, rather than a color commentator is rather silly. I'd rather listen to IdrA's boring bland monotone voice be correct and provide some kind of substance and understanding of the game than someone scream that a baneling exploded.
I don't know, screaming and yelling seems to attract a lot of viewers in Korea (and in the US). PLAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYGGUUUUUUUU!!
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TB is entitled to his opinion.
For me, I either don't watch the game or watch it on mute if TB is casting.
I find Idra's commentary extremely insightful and concise. Good work Idra, keep it up. I hope he commentates more games.
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On May 13 2011 16:15 Atlare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 16:13 Itzli wrote:
TB wasn't really bashing Idra, he was more on the line of saying he is not a good caster but is more of a colour-commentator which is kind of different from a caster. Idra does the analytical stuff while a caster is more of a play by play kind of thing. There 2 different kinds of casting. Thank god somebody else in this thread who can read and not automatically assume TB is being an ass.
"IdrA is not a good caster. He does not have the training to be a good caster, he is too quiet, he is frequently monotone, he stumbles in his speech, he has no flow to speak of, he lacks the ability to express passion and emotion. "
Thats being an ass. Publicly just pointing out peoples shortcomings is being an ass. And what is the point of all of this? To make him look bad? To make TB look better?
"TotalBiscuit is not a good caster. He does not have the training to be a good caster, he is too ignorant, he is frequently oblivious to game situations, he talks about irrelavant parts of the game in his speech, he doesnt know when to quit talking, and he lacks the ability to convince the audience that he has any more clue whats going on in the game than they do"
see? thats being an ass.
User was warned for this post
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On May 13 2011 17:50 motbob wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 17:46 ihavetofartosis wrote:
What's funny is you guys don't realize that he's doing this as a publicity stunt. He knows that IdrA's casting is much more valuable for anyone above silver league, and that it'll stir shit in the community. You're just giving him more attention.
Well played, TB. This is blatantly inaccurate. You are essentially making up lies.
Well, that's my opinion. I think its pretty subjective, but making up lies??? I would argue that many would agree with my statement.
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On May 13 2011 17:56 Slyce wrote:
I think he makes some really valid points...
I really don't like anything that is solo casted really. There are very few people who can both invoke great emotion and be really analytical (There are exceptions but that is not my point)
I think that future events really need to get themselves sorted out and use a 2 person casting duo that balances well. One of each type described in TB's original monologue.
I also think that what you like to watch depends on what you are looking for. I am a Master Terran and I love people getting really in depth so that I can learn new things. I do however have friends who are bronze and just wanna see stuff get nuked while someone shouts about it!
Maybe Idra and TB should team up! And cast something together, I would pay to watch it!
Nice. Making blanket statements about the skill levels of who prefers what. This doesn't come off as completely snobbish at all. Plenty of high skilled people like the hyped commentary or even do that style of commentary.
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On May 13 2011 17:42 Poffel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 16:36 Thoramas wrote:
People in this thread seriously need to take a chill pill and re-read the context.
TB is not saying A>B or B>A.
He's saying A is different from B and A+B (read: 2 people working together) = profit. Maybe I'm misreading him, but I got the complete opposite impression... while TB points out the merits (and flaws) of both casting styles, his main complaint seems to be the lack of synergy between the two. A: Player one has suffered heavy losses! Now he needs to reinforce fast to brace himself for the inevitable attack against his expo! Can he make it? Will he be able to get enough troops in time? Right here, he is putting up defensive structures, but will they finish before the attack of player two gets rolling? B: No... player one is pretty much done unless player two goes afk now. Though player one will be able to hold back the attack wave that's coming, in order to do so, he'll have to delay his tech so much that player two will steamroll him five minutes later. A: Erm... spoilers, man? TB's entire point seems to be that it is impossible for him to get the crowd excited if Idra's analysis is too good.
He wasn't addressing synergy concerns. He was responding to an article, that said casters should be more like Idra, by saying that instead of mixing both traits in one guy, two guys should work together with synergy to maximize the level of commentary. He then goes on to say why it is good to have both a color commentator and a play-by-play caster by addressing points mentioned in the article with respect the crowd that the play-by-play caster caters to.
Anyway, in your example, instead of "Erm... spoilers, man?", 'A' can always hype up a possibility that player one pulls off a miracle comeback(which happened a lot in recent GSL games).
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Please watch Copenhagen games finals with Grubby co-casting and then watch IdrA again, see the huge difference yourself.
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I kind of agree with the article and Totalbiscuit to be honest. I think IdrA has been doing great at casting lately. His analysis is spot on and his style brings a new level of thought and intensity when watching the games, but I wouldn't want to hear him alone. I also don't like listening to Totalbiscuit by himself.
One of my favorite pairs was djWheat and IdrA in the EG Master's cup. djWheat connected/filled in the gap between IdrA's analysis quite nicely. He knew all the right times to ask IdrA for insight when there wasn't much going on, and then would pile on the excitement when an engagement occurred or something. It was really fun to hear, and I learned something. These are the two roles that Totalbiscuit was talking about, and I don't necessarily think that his response disagrees with the article. The article wasn't really talking about his ability to cast alone, but rather what he adds to the cast.
A lot of sports are also broadcasted by radio stations. Anybody wonder what an audio-only sc2 cast would be like? that would takes some gosu casters, haha
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TB expressed that extraordinary well.
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On May 13 2011 18:04 HwangjaeTerran wrote:
Good read by TotalBiscuit.
The main problem I see within e-sports commentating, especially starcraft II commentating is that there is a wide variety of people watching the matches. I'd say the % of hc-gamers to casual gamers is a lot higher than in other sports. The more common and "professional" approach might be better for the casuals but can also be a huge turn off to the hc-people.
Well I guess time will show.
So perhaps the happy middleway is a good PbP caster and a good colour commentator by his side?
Perhaps this is a problem that have been worked with since the beginning of sport casting? Fanatic know it alls watching a european football match is not in a low %.
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TB's post makes sense, regardless of the fact that he wrote it come on.
Is it or it is not a fact that IdrA is much more of a experienced player than a commentator?
Yes, without a shadow of a doubt.
Then it's OK for him to lack in SOME departments of the commentating job, and crush faces in others, it's 101 common sense guys, I don't even realize why are we even discussing this.
TB is not trashtalking IdrA or anything, he's just stating the OBVIOUS.
And I am not a fan of either (idra or tb).
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I also agree with TB. Most of the time I watch a tournament I try to get friends to watch with me. Most of them dont know anything about SC2 but still enjoy it, cause its quite an accessable game (a lil more than BW). So a commentator who creats tension and is excited about the games is awesome.
If a commentator is able to analyse a game without taking away any of the excitement (like day9 does), its perfect.
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On May 13 2011 17:17 C.W. wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Some e-sports-scene caster with a great voice, who is a newbie in starcraft2 gives advice in casting to a guy who is playing this game(s) essentially since the beginning and on a professional level; who was invited to guest-cast/moderate high level starcraft games because said invitee was not... euphoric enough for the casters taste?
Since I did look Totalbiscuit up on youtube (totally didn't know who that guy was) I got the impression of a god-given moderation voice, but it also appeared to me that he got some personal issues after I saw him cast this very post that OP quoted.
(That cast by the way was technically horrific and I felt a bit embarassed for totalbiscuit).
On a productive note I want to add that Idra is full time pro.
No one can expect some veteran casting from him since he has no experience whatsoever doing it.
Idra however has great game insight and knows his strategies which is why I thought NASL invited him for.
Also I do not regard Totalbiscuits post as "bashing" or "smacking" or whatsoever - I regard his tips to be pure waste (Idra does not need improving his casting since he is not a caster) and guess that this was just some deed to get some more attention.
It was a response to a journal article in which IdrA was praised for his casting, when in fact he's not a caster. Please read the OP before hating.
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On May 13 2011 18:06 danson wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 16:15 Atlare wrote:On May 13 2011 16:13 Itzli wrote:
TB wasn't really bashing Idra, he was more on the line of saying he is not a good caster but is more of a colour-commentator which is kind of different from a caster. Idra does the analytical stuff while a caster is more of a play by play kind of thing. There 2 different kinds of casting. Thank god somebody else in this thread who can read and not automatically assume TB is being an ass. "IdrA is not a good caster. He does not have the training to be a good caster, he is too quiet, he is frequently monotone, he stumbles in his speech, he has no flow to speak of, he lacks the ability to express passion and emotion. " Thats being an ass. Publicly just pointing out peoples shortcomings is being an ass. And what is the point of all of this? To make him look bad? To make TB look better? "TotalBiscuit is not a good caster. He does not have the training to be a good caster, he is too ignorant, he is frequently oblivious to game situations, he talks about irrelavant parts of the game in his speech, he doesnt know when to quit talking, and he lacks the ability to convince the audience that he has any more clue whats going on in the game than they do" see? thats being an ass.
TB is pointing out, well, facts. IdrA does not have training to be a caster, he does not have practice, he does not have experience. This is all accurate. His voice is very monotone, devoid of emotion, and has poor flow. These are all objective things that can be analyzed in a caster, because they are mechanical aspects.
IdrA does really well at what he does have experience at, however, which is knowing what's going on. As TB said, this makes him strong in the role that he fits - the color commentator.
Personally I find him dull to listen to, since I'm not really looking for a flat narration of the strategies involved so much as entertainment along with key points to consider in the match. That's my preference.. If he had more practice/training and fixed some of the aspects TB brought up, he'd be immensely stronger overall though - compare Artosis interacting with Tasteless (in the analytical role) compared to IdrA in EGMC/NASL.
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EPT
