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On May 13 2011 17:34 TheBanana wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 17:29 Xeteh wrote:On May 13 2011 16:15 Atlare wrote:On May 13 2011 16:13 Itzli wrote:
TB wasn't really bashing Idra, he was more on the line of saying he is not a good caster but is more of a colour-commentator which is kind of different from a caster. Idra does the analytical stuff while a caster is more of a play by play kind of thing. There 2 different kinds of casting. Thank god somebody else in this thread who can read and not automatically assume TB is being an ass. I don't get how he can say anyone is a play-by-play commentator, though. No one in SC2 does that sort of commentary. I mean watch a baseball or hockey game, watch how a play-by-play commentator does it. They're called "play-by-play" for a reason. Someone like Artosis/Idra are as close to that as we have in the SC2 community, their knowledge of the game is ridiculous. Either one of them can discern what a player is doing by the most minute changes in their build... there is no other commentator that can do that to the same level they can. Color commentary is far more rampant in the SC2 community, someone who will try more than anything else to be entertaining (the ironic part of that entire post is this basically epitomizes how TB casts. He clearly isn't going for the analytical view that only leaves the entertainment (color) commentary for him. Idra clearly isn't someone who is trying to be entertaining when he casts, he's trying to relate exactly what is going on in the match, what each player is doing and what they are doing wrong. You have the terminology wrong. The color commentator is the analyst. The Play-by-Play-commentator is the entertainer. Read the wikipedia-entries TB provided.
Yea, read the wiki that has nothing to do with esports or a strategy based game. Which is basically what I have an issue with in regards to TB's breakdown of how SC2 should be commentated.
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95% of the people responding didn't even read the article 
He's not saying that IdrA shouldn't be casting. He's saying IdrA is not going to bring excitement and hype the game, but his place is to analyze ( while casting.. ) and he's better with another commentator who can hype up more. It's like Gretorp tries to make the game entertaining but he'll often ask IdrA a question about the game or what he thinks of a certain situation and get the insight of a progamer, that's all TB is saying.
On a side note, I don't like TB's voice and I don't like hearing him cast lol, I don't like any of the SC "hype" commentators, like if you aren't good at the game you can't get me excited about it =\
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I agree that idra is horrible "play by play" caster, but i dislike play by play casting anyway. So i enjoy his analysis based casting. I find it mindblowing that he can call the game outcome 5 minutes before gg. I agree it's kind of a buzzkill, though.
About the TB's comment, there are many assumptions about 'average viewer', which i don't think are 100% true.
Also, TB mentions that post analysis can be done, which is true. But i don't want to spend another 20 minutes watching the same game being analysed. Which is also why i enjoy listening to idra type of casting. It's exciting enough for me while highly educational. But i can see how this can be considered a 'nitche market'.
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Seems reasonable. IdrA is great for filling in information and providing insight, but extremely weak in mechanical aspects like voice, flow, interaction - general 'casting' stuff. He's gotten better in the last few days but he's still narrating more than commentating.
Not much to cause a fuss over, it's an obvious observation.
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On May 13 2011 16:36 Thoramas wrote:
People in this thread seriously need to take a chill pill and re-read the context.
TB is not saying A>B or B>A.
He's saying A is different from B and A+B (read: 2 people working together) = profit.
Maybe I'm misreading him, but I got the complete opposite impression... while TB points out the merits (and flaws) of both casting styles, his main complaint seems to be the lack of synergy between the two.
A: Player one has suffered heavy losses! Now he needs to reinforce fast to brace himself for the inevitable attack against his expo! Can he make it? Will he be able to get enough troops in time? Right here, he is putting up defensive structures, but will they finish before the attack of player two gets rolling?
B: No... player one is pretty much done unless player two goes afk now. Though player one will be able to hold back the attack wave that's coming, in order to do so, he'll have to delay his tech so much that player two will steamroll him five minutes later.
A: Erm... spoilers, man?
TB's entire point seems to be that it is impossible for him to get the crowd excited if Idra's analysis is too good.
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On May 13 2011 17:37 Swineflew wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 17:34 TheBanana wrote:On May 13 2011 17:29 Xeteh wrote:On May 13 2011 16:15 Atlare wrote:On May 13 2011 16:13 Itzli wrote:
TB wasn't really bashing Idra, he was more on the line of saying he is not a good caster but is more of a colour-commentator which is kind of different from a caster. Idra does the analytical stuff while a caster is more of a play by play kind of thing. There 2 different kinds of casting. Thank god somebody else in this thread who can read and not automatically assume TB is being an ass. I don't get how he can say anyone is a play-by-play commentator, though. No one in SC2 does that sort of commentary. I mean watch a baseball or hockey game, watch how a play-by-play commentator does it. They're called "play-by-play" for a reason. Someone like Artosis/Idra are as close to that as we have in the SC2 community, their knowledge of the game is ridiculous. Either one of them can discern what a player is doing by the most minute changes in their build... there is no other commentator that can do that to the same level they can. Color commentary is far more rampant in the SC2 community, someone who will try more than anything else to be entertaining (the ironic part of that entire post is this basically epitomizes how TB casts. He clearly isn't going for the analytical view that only leaves the entertainment (color) commentary for him. Idra clearly isn't someone who is trying to be entertaining when he casts, he's trying to relate exactly what is going on in the match, what each player is doing and what they are doing wrong. You have the terminology wrong. The color commentator is the analyst. The Play-by-Play-commentator is the entertainer. Read the wikipedia-entries TB provided. Yea, read the wiki that has nothing to do with esports or a strategy based game. Which is basically what I have an issue with in regards to TB's breakdown of how SC2 should be commentated.
Uhm, it explains the casting terminology so that people could stop calling the COLOR ANALYST a play-by-play commentator and the other way around. Like the guy I was talking to.
How does CASTING terminology not have anything thing to do with a discussion about casting?
Open your eyes click the link and read what color commentator means and what play-by-play commentator means.
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Wow, TB makes some great points. He's not even bashing. The comments in this thread make my head hurt.
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I'd take IdrA's casting over TotalBiscuit's any day.
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Anyone who doesn't agree with TB's analysis should learn some basic reading comprehension before they post.
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I wouldn't mind skipping the play by play commentators altogether. I dont want to have people screaming and talking fast like a madman just about what everyone already sees.
It doesn't add to excitement or anything for me. It's just annoying.
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Right now, Idra and Day9 are the only casters who offer analysis that is (imo) sophisticated enough for those who are only interested in analysis. Even Incontrol, Artosis, and Gretorp are a bit lacking in that department.
So I find it really annoying that someone would criticize Idra for only focusing on analysis. Do we really want more casters like TB for the sake of the supposed average viewer?
Edit: Btw, the people who say that Idra could improve on his vocal skill and that kind of stuff don't understand that it's mutually exclusive with color commentary. It would sound ridiculous for him to yell like TB while talking about strategy.
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Iceland1267 Posts
On May 13 2011 17:43 Wolf wrote:
Wow, TB makes some great points. He's not even bashing. The comments in this thread make my head hurt.
People won't let some 'facts' get in way of their internet drama.
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What's funny is you guys don't realize that he's doing this as a publicity stunt. He knows that IdrA's casting is much more valuable for anyone above silver league, and that it'll stir shit in the community. You're just giving him more attention.
Well played, TB.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On May 13 2011 17:44 PJA wrote:
Anyone who doesn't agree with TB's analysis should learn some basic reading comprehension before they post.
Why? =P.
I disagree with which casting method he finds suitable for starcraft. I read it but disagree.
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On May 13 2011 17:46 ihavetofartosis wrote:
What's funny is you guys don't realize that he's doing this as a publicity stunt. He knows that IdrA's casting is much more valuable for anyone above silver league, and that it'll stir shit in the community. You're just giving him more attention.
Well played, TB.
You mean he pulled an IdrA on IdrA?
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On May 13 2011 17:43 Drium wrote:
I'd take IdrA's casting over TotalBiscuit's any day.
I'd take stone silence over TB any day. He makes some decent points i guess, but i find it difficult to give credence to anything he says about casting since he's awful himself. Of all the overrated commentators in esports, he's the one i least understand the popularity of. Oh look, he has an interesting (irritating) voice and shouts a lot... great...
He is EVERYTHING wrong with esports commentary in one unusually-voiced package.
I also find it kind of amusing that he tried to make exuses for knowing basically nothing about esports and SC2 by adding "i'm a play-by-play guy." Right, that makes it okay doesn't it? What a joke. And then.. "but a Wiki says so," seriously, his popularity makes my brain hurt.
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On May 13 2011 17:33 ArhK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2011 17:27 Holcan wrote:On May 13 2011 17:25 Defrag wrote:
Seriously?
Idra's casting is absolutetly over the top. This is also the reason his, and Sheth's streams are two of the most popular streams on the scene - they give a good insight on the game, instead of just commenting current situation with.
Idra doesnt talk during his streams, and sheth and idra are popular because they are the only good zerg streamers, relax with the fervor there buddy. Idra talked during almost the entire last week. His number of viewers rose in an impressive fashion as soon as he started to do that.
I hadnt realized, I stand corrected.
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I don't like any of the play-by-play casters, except for maybe Day9 since he's a bit of both. I think they're mainly just annoying and use dry jokes, but then again, I am probably a minority.
I've had the same thoughts as totalbiscuit about Idra's casting but I still watched every vod with him casting because his insight far outweighs anything else.
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you can't compare apples with pears. some ppl like the first, some the last one ... a question of taste
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On May 13 2011 17:46 ihavetofartosis wrote:
What's funny is you guys don't realize that he's doing this as a publicity stunt. He knows that IdrA's casting is much more valuable for anyone above silver league, and that it'll stir shit in the community. You're just giving him more attention.
Well played, TB.
This is blatantly inaccurate. You are essentially making up lies.
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EPT
