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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
Phoenixes and Voids are also quite effective against Tanks (though vulnerable to marines), and both Blink and Charge make closing the distance against a tank line fairly easy. Archons are also amazing against tanks, but prior to this patch are hardly ever used.
Basically, whatever Protoss is teching, they have some good anti-tank options.
That said, tanks are just a great unit in general, regardless of "counters". Their combination of insane range and splash damage is effective against practically anything if you get enough of them and position them well, and its not like there aren't support units to help them out: EMP does wonders for tank efficiacy against Toss, and there is nothing quite so frustrating as charging a tank line only to have conc shells slow you down and leave you a sitting duck in the middle of the map.
The better Toss get at dealing with MMM+Viking (and they're getting pretty good at it), the more incentive Terran will have to experiment. Ghost/Tank, in particular, has enormous potential now that its feasible in terms of gas.
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lol @ people who think sc2 tanks and carriers are better than their sc1 counterparts. Have you ppl even played competitive bw? -____-
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I don't think people are discussing the most important change that will kill a long lived tradition in StarCraft since the concept was invented:
-Fixed an issue where the APM statistic could be artificially increased.
Are they Killing APM smap?
For shame Blizzard, for shame
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On May 08 2011 14:35 windsupernova wrote:
I don't think people are discussing the most important change that will kill a long lived tradition in StarCraft since the concept was invented:
-Fixed an issue where the APM statistic could be artificially increased.
Are they Killing APM smap?
For shame Blizzard, for shame
If you spam at the beginning of the game, that's not artificial APM, that's actually APM, the fact that its repetitive or purposeless is undetectable by the game.
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By artificially increased they probably meant something like editing a replay file.
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i think the archon is a nice buff and i cant wait to start seeing those in matches more often especially since in pvp the tech options are gona open up pretty nicely
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I'm really sad if the thor change goes through, because mech play was the reason I initially switched from random to terran. I seriously feel like blizzard is trying to discourage any other type of play than the standard (and boring) mass MMM.
I seriously hope they keep the thor as it was.
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On May 08 2011 14:35 windsupernova wrote:
I don't think people are discussing the most important change that will kill a long lived tradition in StarCraft since the concept was invented:
-Fixed an issue where the APM statistic could be artificially increased.
Are they Killing APM smap?
For shame Blizzard, for shame
There's a bug where you just select all your workers and hold down C (=return Cargo). It gives you more than 1000 apm just by pressing 1 button 
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The Thor change is really not that big of a deal. They are just telling terrans to start making ghosts more (especially with the new cost). A terran should have ghosts in 99% of TvPs just because of how much damage EMP does to protoss. The fact that ghosts also take out energy is amazing for how low tech they are. Against protoss late game a terran needs to emp the HTs or they should not expect to win. This patch is giving more incentive to do just that. Thors are awesome vs P will still be used because this only makes them more vulnerable to one unit, especially since if ghosts are used well, it won't change much at all. This will just make Terrans become better players in my opinion. They will always have an EMP ready.
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On May 08 2011 20:58 DNB wrote:
I'm really sad if the thor change goes through, because mech play was the reason I initially switched from random to terran. I seriously feel like blizzard is trying to discourage any other type of play than the standard (and boring) mass MMM.
I seriously hope they keep the thor as it was.
Nothing is more boring than mass thor.
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I was waiting for Terrans to switch to mech.. as a Protoss player I love carriers, but I cant find anyway working that against bio. With the Thor change maybe even less terrans are trying Mech I think
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On May 08 2011 21:46 Tofugrinder wrote:
I was waiting for Terrans to switch to mech.. as a Protoss player I love carriers, but I cant find anyway working that against bio. With the Thor change maybe even less terrans are trying Mech I think
The biggest issues with any high tier tech is how/when you transition into them. I'm sure there will be builds on there designed to get carrier tech at a good time (personally working on some) and not die to different types of terran pushes.
I really like this patch btw, I think it will play out very well. I'm still abit baffled by the fact that they don't change the colossi though, the design of the unit is just bad and I can't imagine them beeing happy about it. It needs to be more nisched, and maybe less powerful, smaller, take less psi or something along those lines. I dont know, but the design is just bad imho.
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I don't know, it just feels stupid to EMP your own units because their abilitys not worth it at all and the Unit has a massive energypool that will deal huge a** damage if the unit is feedbacked. Biomech might be more considerable with cheaper ghosts.
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umm carriers work wonders against bio if you have a gold to support the interceptor losses :3. The energy switch back is imo a way to buff archons against thors (250mm otherwise would stun them so all the massiv buffs etc would be for nothign ^.^ ). Energy should come with the upgrade and no one would complain.
And emp is pretty useless against energy units now, snipe is more effectiv, but sadly you need 2 shots ^^ so its more like snipe feedback ... dead ghost. For being the anti spellcaster unit called ghost, high templars are way better at this then the ghosts nos ^.^ . atleast they fixed the bug so that you can double emp now.
But well ghosts are hard to bring them to work, but with their skills they can be pretty good ninjas.
And dodging storms works as well, so no ghosts are not essential to fight hts. If you get some advantage out of not teching, like taking a gold. (but storm spam is really really hard to dodge but if the hts are out of energy then its over now)
And people really said tanks in sc2 are stronger then bw ? lol. Units in sc2 are so fast close up to the tanks so they splash themself to death. In bw 1/3 of the opponents army was dead before they even reached the tanks for the siege tanks  .
In sc2 i feel like i lose to my tank splash and not to something else.
But well the important thing is the thors energy thing and i guess its because of the 250mm stun vs archons making archons useless in tvp or in general disabling ht tech completly. (so its a nerf to colossi ;P )
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250 mm works on colossus (massive) and will work on archons when they are massive. It's just concussive shells, forcefield and grav beam that don't work on massive units.
Fungal and 250mm don't work on ultralisks because ultras have a special resistance to it. And for that matter, the damage on both of them DOES work, just not the stun.
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As a Terran player i actually have to say i overall really like this patch, however the one thing i really don't like is the the Thor change. I'm in masters(was 3400+, season 1) and i have been tinkering with Mech a lot recently, with some success.
The fact it is that immortals just about own lone tanks, and although 1 on 1 agasint a thor (no cannons), the Thor will win, immortals are still extremely cost efficent vs mech, that being said i actually feel the strike cannons is required when facing an immortal, chargelot, collosi based army.
i actually will be concerned about the future viability of mech if this change makes it past the the ptr and onto the ladder, too me the strike cannon(with no energy) was a good balance between its absolute devastation and the cost effectiveness of the immortals. Now with an energy bar, not only are thors susceptible to feedback damage but this will also render the Thor without cannons, which i feel are imperative.
i really want to see mech become more viable and not less. i really dont want the thor to become the next reaper.
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i actually will be concerned about the future viability of mech if this change makes it past the the ptr and onto the ladder, too me the strike cannon(with no energy) was a good balance between its absolute devastation and the cost effectiveness of the immortals. Now with an energy bar, not only are thors susceptible to feedback damage but this will also render the Thor without cannons, which i feel are imperative.
Everything Toss has on the ground that is good against Mech is super vulnerable to Ghosts, which are now much cheaper. Nobody is gonna go pure Mech, but Mech/Ghost has enormous potential.
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On May 08 2011 23:15 FeyFey wrote:
And dodging storms works as well, so no ghosts are not essential to fight hts. If you get some advantage out of not teching, like taking a gold. (but storm spam is really really hard to dodge but if the hts are out of energy then its over now)
If you're going to run away when I throw down 2-3 storms, thats fine with me, since you wasted the 10/20 hps on a stim and you're only losing its effectiveness by running from the storm and waiting for it to finish.
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On May 08 2011 11:52 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 11:46 avilo wrote:On May 08 2011 08:26 tdt wrote:On May 07 2011 22:15 YoiChiBow wrote:On May 07 2011 22:10 Maynarde wrote:On May 07 2011 19:54 Raiznhell wrote:
Mech is currently seen used successfully once ever million TvX games and I find it dumb. Embellishments <3 Not really embellishments. Professional gamers don't really use mech in TvP because it is extremely exploitable. Obviously you can have success with it if you are left alone on 3 base for an extended period of time. 1.Mobility vs Blink stalker/Colossus 2. Controlling space with minimal units 3.Dealing with quick 2/3 base carrier builds. (No you can't just say go vikings because competent players time out their builds when u are expanding to your third (setting up your economy + needing enough "stuff" to defend it with[this actually deals with reason 2.]) and/or not ready to move out because of you haven't reached critical mass yet). This wasn't too viable in SC1 for protoss vs mech due to the fact Terran in SC1 had competent ground-to-air (the goliath) and could deal with these air timings relatively easy if scouted correctly. All these reasons leave mech to be unviable at the highest levels of play. LOL where are these "quick 2/3 base carrier builds" they don't exist in pro play because carriers take longer than walking across the Sinai and leave you hugely exposed. Not to mention carriers suck compared to BW. No reason Terran doesnt go mech is Zealots and immortals where hits don't matter and collossi who don't get hit. Stop perpetuating the myth that sc2 carriers are bad. SC2 carriers are a lot stronger than SC1 carriers, at minimum equal to SC1 carriers. You don't see them because there's already such strong units like the collosus and everything else, that they are almost never needed. And they take long to get as well, but they are one of the strongest units in the game, just underused. And the main reason people don't go mech vs P is it is very gas intensive and you can't attack effectively with it, as you have to siege + unsiege, and when good protoss see you going mech they build only blink stalkers and collosus and can simply not ever engage your army. Usually Protoss gets a free third base, sometimes even fourth base because you have to have a critical mass of tanks to push out, and tanks in SC2 are bad. i pretty much agree what you said until i read that line. bro, sc2 tanks are 10times better than sc1 tank because of the smart fire.
Who needs smart fire when you do 85 damage a shot?
I just cant disagree with tanks in sc2 being better than bw sorry
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Tanks were definitely better in BW than they are in SC2, lol.
Easily the most used unit in the game for Terran in BW in all 3 matchups.
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EPT
