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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong. It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. | ||
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ScorpEUs
Germany61 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.abload.de/img/848394673748yh68.png) Somehow i don't think the incoming patch will change pvp as far as blizzard and the players do expect. correct me, but i think 4 gate was already during the beta really strong and i think a lot of changes planned for the next patches to fix pvp where already made in some way before - but pvp only got more 4gate-heavy. i would really appreciate a "refreshed" pvp. | ||
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Mercury-
Great Britain804 Posts
On May 10 2011 00:23 tdt wrote: I see em all the time. Like I just watched a game yesterday where goody used like 8 vs nani and rolled him. Do you mean the game where Goody opened proxy rax against Nexus first and was extremely far ahead in worker count the entire game? Yeah that's a good situation to use BCs in. | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On May 10 2011 00:33 Mataza wrote: I don´t know how you tested this, but in my test the immortals utterly destroyed the Thors in a 2v1 ratio. First you must ball them up, since that´s the natural state of any army in SC2. If you preposition the Thors in a way so they have superior position it won´t count. Immortals are much smaller and much faster than Thors, also Strike cannons take 2 full seconds before showing any effect. You can hardly micro Thors since they block each other and a second row Thor might as well not be there(Thor at least has a length of 2 attack range, maybe even 3). I just redid the test again. Shiftclicking the Thors from afar, Immos won even with Thors having a concave. The only way 1 thor wins against 2 Immortals is when some shit stands inbetween and the Immortals hits that. I personally think they should remove Strike cannons. It´s a terrible upgrade. It was a hardcounter to Ultralisks originally, but now it´s only really worth it against Immortals, pfortresses and other Thors. After 1 Mech upgrade, the autohit of the Thor does more damage per second than the cannons. It stuns your enemy for 6 seconds and your Thor for 10. Since Colossi have range 9 and Ultras are stunimmune, you only get small units reliably into range meaning Strike Cannons overkill nearly always. How bad is all that together? How do I record video of me playing in unit tester and I'll show you? I did 8 thor with 3 armor in an open area vs 16 immos on A move into thor and SC the first 8 immos and killed off the rest with normal attack. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On May 10 2011 00:38 tdt wrote: How do I record video of me playing in unit tester and I'll show you? I did 8 thor with 3 armor in an open area vs 16 immos on A move into thor and SC the first 8 immos and killed off the rest with normal attack. You can upload the replay on sc2 replayed or some other site The Thors get 3 armor and the Immos don´t? | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On May 10 2011 00:23 tdt wrote: I see em all the time. Like I just watched a game yesterday where goody used like 8 vs nani and rolled him. BCs are pretty good vs Protoss if you can get the at the right time  | ||
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Mali__Slon
Senegal163 Posts
On May 10 2011 00:48 Antisocialmunky wrote: BCs are pretty good vs Protoss if you can get the at the right time Totally agree, T's totally dominate ladder with them. Maybe the next patch will fix this issue. | ||
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no.1 kissy boy
Slovenia19 Posts
On May 10 2011 00:36 Whitewing wrote: I think it had a lot more to do with the 1-2 thor rushes that automatically killed any fast expanding protoss because you could strike cannon the one or two immortals out and just mass repair the thors after that. Yeah but aren't there like a million builds that you can do to instantly kill a FE protoss as terran? And same vice versa if the terran doesn't bunker up like a boss. | ||
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KaiserJohan
Sweden1808 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On May 10 2011 00:51 no.1 kissy boy wrote: Yeah but aren't there like a million builds that you can do to instantly kill a FE protoss as terran? And same vice versa if the terran doesn't bunker up like a boss. No, there aren't a lot of builds that just straight up kill a FE with no chance of keeping the expo at all. There are one base plays that can punish a FE, but generally they don't straight up auto-win. | ||
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ihavetofartosis
1277 Posts
On May 10 2011 00:52 KaiserJohan wrote: It has probably been asked before but why the hell did they change Thor back to energy? Its not like they are OP TvP...? According to Blizzard, they are. And having HT counter nearly every Terran unit used in TvP is fine. Get HT, storm marines and marauders, feedback ghosts, medivacs, ravens, banshees, and now Thors. Personally I find it ridiculous, and have no idea where Blizzard gets the idea that thors are imba but colossus are fine, but then again I didn't make the game so....... what can ya do. | ||
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Mali__Slon
Senegal163 Posts
On May 10 2011 00:54 Whitewing wrote: No, there aren't a lot of builds that just straight up kill a FE with no chance of keeping the expo at all. There are one base plays that can punish a FE, but generally they don't straight up auto-win. 3 rax shuts it down real easy. | ||
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ihavetofartosis
1277 Posts
Kind of like how 4gate destroys terran FE? I don't see what your point is. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Also no one with a clear mind would fight thors with immortals. (marines or hellions will accompany thors and block the immortals from reaching the thors, so a better choice would be voidrays first to force vikings as the marine force can be teared down with voidrays and stalkers until the thors are unprotected and if there are no tanks on the ground to protect the thors immortals can shine  )Well with the ghost change its more viable for mech less viable for bio so you will probably see ghosts in the thor mix as well ^^ and i guess you don't want to use immortals if they have no shields (would look like tanks with no range would fight thors hehe.) edit: right blizzard will probably release a justification shortly after the patch, so i guess waiting a lil more should help. I really wonder on how much reasons i guessed right hehe. | ||
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Srule
Canada181 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On May 10 2011 00:57 ihavetofartosis wrote: Kind of like how 4gate destroys terran FE? I don't see what your point is. Just as you say, yeah, they can kill FE, but they don't auto-win. Decent forcefields can hold the bio at bay long enough to get the necessary units up, you can hold a 3 gate expand against a 3 rax. You can hold a fast CC as terran against a 4 gate too. It's not auto-win though, like the 1-2 thor rush is, since barracks units don't negate forcefields. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On May 10 2011 00:52 KaiserJohan wrote: It has probably been asked before but why the hell did they change Thor back to energy? Its not like they are OP TvP...? I assume they want to push toward ghost/mech builds, and fear that the ghost change wouldn't give P enough leeway if the T can deny scouting. It might also be to simply encourage templar play PvT. | ||
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Mali__Slon
Senegal163 Posts
On May 10 2011 00:57 ihavetofartosis wrote: Kind of like how 4gate destroys terran FE? I don't see what your point is. You dont? It seems pretty selfexplanatory, but alright i ll try to simplify. If I scout FE toss i'd ruther go 2 rax pressure into 3 rax, then bulid factory, then armory, then 150/150 for canons and wait for thor to kill the toss. 3 rax is much safer way to do it. So in my opinion thats no reason the nerf the cannons. | ||
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Mali__Slon
Senegal163 Posts
On May 10 2011 01:00 Whitewing wrote: Just as you say, yeah, they can kill FE, but they don't auto-win. Decent forcefields can hold the bio at bay long enough to get the necessary units up, you can hold a 3 gate expand against a 3 rax. You can hold a fast CC as terran against a 4 gate too. It's not auto-win though, like the 1-2 thor rush is, since barracks units don't negate forcefields. 3 gate exp is in no way FE. Secondly if terran kills your FE, you will be so far behind == loss. I still havent lost a game where i killed toss FE, I mean you are free to camp and to get your own expansion going. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
PvT will probably move to Ghost, Ghost, Scan Observersnipe and Ghost on the one terran side and Gateway/Colossi/Templar on the other side. If I am not entirely wrong HT now counter every terran unit besides Tanks, Hellions and Ghosts, the Ghost only being viable because you can sneak in invisible when they skimp on observers. | ||
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ArtOfficial
United States2 Posts
So I guess we go back to defensive emps on Thors so Templars don´t feedback half their life away. PvT will probably move to Ghost, Ghost, Scan Observersnipe and Ghost on the one terran side and Gateway/Colossi/Templar on the other side. If I am not entirely wrong HT now counter every terran unit besides Tanks, Hellions and Ghosts, the Ghost only being viable because you can sneak in invisible when they skimp on observers. You guys keep saying this but it's not like Ghosts don't counter every Protoss unit. | ||
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