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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On May 08 2011 08:26 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 22:15 YoiChiBow wrote:On May 07 2011 22:10 Maynarde wrote:On May 07 2011 19:54 Raiznhell wrote:
Mech is currently seen used successfully once ever million TvX games and I find it dumb. Embellishments <3 Not really embellishments. Professional gamers don't really use mech in TvP because it is extremely exploitable. Obviously you can have success with it if you are left alone on 3 base for an extended period of time. 1.Mobility vs Blink stalker/Colossus 2. Controlling space with minimal units 3.Dealing with quick 2/3 base carrier builds. (No you can't just say go vikings because competent players time out their builds when u are expanding to your third (setting up your economy + needing enough "stuff" to defend it with[this actually deals with reason 2.]) and/or not ready to move out because of you haven't reached critical mass yet). This wasn't too viable in SC1 for protoss vs mech due to the fact Terran in SC1 had competent ground-to-air (the goliath) and could deal with these air timings relatively easy if scouted correctly. All these reasons leave mech to be unviable at the highest levels of play. LOL where are these "quick 2/3 base carrier builds" they don't exist in pro play because carriers take longer than walking across the Sinai and leave you hugely exposed. Not to mention carriers suck compared to BW. No reason Terran doesnt go mech is Zealots and immortals where hits don't matter and collossi who don't get hit.
Stop perpetuating the myth that sc2 carriers are bad. SC2 carriers are a lot stronger than SC1 carriers, at minimum equal to SC1 carriers.
You don't see them because there's already such strong units like the collosus and everything else, that they are almost never needed. And they take long to get as well, but they are one of the strongest units in the game, just underused.
And the main reason people don't go mech vs P is it is very gas intensive and you can't attack effectively with it, as you have to siege + unsiege, and when good protoss see you going mech they build only blink stalkers and collosus and can simply not ever engage your army. Usually Protoss gets a free third base, sometimes even fourth base because you have to have a critical mass of tanks to push out, and tanks in SC2 are bad.
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On May 08 2011 11:46 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 08:26 tdt wrote:On May 07 2011 22:15 YoiChiBow wrote:On May 07 2011 22:10 Maynarde wrote:On May 07 2011 19:54 Raiznhell wrote:
Mech is currently seen used successfully once ever million TvX games and I find it dumb. Embellishments <3 Not really embellishments. Professional gamers don't really use mech in TvP because it is extremely exploitable. Obviously you can have success with it if you are left alone on 3 base for an extended period of time. 1.Mobility vs Blink stalker/Colossus 2. Controlling space with minimal units 3.Dealing with quick 2/3 base carrier builds. (No you can't just say go vikings because competent players time out their builds when u are expanding to your third (setting up your economy + needing enough "stuff" to defend it with[this actually deals with reason 2.]) and/or not ready to move out because of you haven't reached critical mass yet). This wasn't too viable in SC1 for protoss vs mech due to the fact Terran in SC1 had competent ground-to-air (the goliath) and could deal with these air timings relatively easy if scouted correctly. All these reasons leave mech to be unviable at the highest levels of play. LOL where are these "quick 2/3 base carrier builds" they don't exist in pro play because carriers take longer than walking across the Sinai and leave you hugely exposed. Not to mention carriers suck compared to BW. No reason Terran doesnt go mech is Zealots and immortals where hits don't matter and collossi who don't get hit. Stop perpetuating the myth that sc2 carriers are bad. SC2 carriers are a lot stronger than SC1 carriers, at minimum equal to SC1 carriers. You don't see them because there's already such strong units like the collosus and everything else, that they are almost never needed. And they take long to get as well, but they are one of the strongest units in the game, just underused. And the main reason people don't go mech vs P is it is very gas intensive and you can't attack effectively with it, as you have to siege + unsiege, and when good protoss see you going mech they build only blink stalkers and collosus and can simply not ever engage your army. Usually Protoss gets a free third base, sometimes even fourth base because you have to have a critical mass of tanks to push out, and tanks in SC2 are bad.
i pretty much agree what you said until i read that line. bro, sc2 tanks are 10times better than sc1 tank because of the smart fire.
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On May 08 2011 11:52 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 11:46 avilo wrote:On May 08 2011 08:26 tdt wrote:On May 07 2011 22:15 YoiChiBow wrote:On May 07 2011 22:10 Maynarde wrote:On May 07 2011 19:54 Raiznhell wrote:
Mech is currently seen used successfully once ever million TvX games and I find it dumb. Embellishments <3 Not really embellishments. Professional gamers don't really use mech in TvP because it is extremely exploitable. Obviously you can have success with it if you are left alone on 3 base for an extended period of time. 1.Mobility vs Blink stalker/Colossus 2. Controlling space with minimal units 3.Dealing with quick 2/3 base carrier builds. (No you can't just say go vikings because competent players time out their builds when u are expanding to your third (setting up your economy + needing enough "stuff" to defend it with[this actually deals with reason 2.]) and/or not ready to move out because of you haven't reached critical mass yet). This wasn't too viable in SC1 for protoss vs mech due to the fact Terran in SC1 had competent ground-to-air (the goliath) and could deal with these air timings relatively easy if scouted correctly. All these reasons leave mech to be unviable at the highest levels of play. LOL where are these "quick 2/3 base carrier builds" they don't exist in pro play because carriers take longer than walking across the Sinai and leave you hugely exposed. Not to mention carriers suck compared to BW. No reason Terran doesnt go mech is Zealots and immortals where hits don't matter and collossi who don't get hit. Stop perpetuating the myth that sc2 carriers are bad. SC2 carriers are a lot stronger than SC1 carriers, at minimum equal to SC1 carriers. You don't see them because there's already such strong units like the collosus and everything else, that they are almost never needed. And they take long to get as well, but they are one of the strongest units in the game, just underused. And the main reason people don't go mech vs P is it is very gas intensive and you can't attack effectively with it, as you have to siege + unsiege, and when good protoss see you going mech they build only blink stalkers and collosus and can simply not ever engage your army. Usually Protoss gets a free third base, sometimes even fourth base because you have to have a critical mass of tanks to push out, and tanks in SC2 are bad. i pretty much agree what you said until i read that line. bro, sc2 tanks are 10times better than sc1 tank because of the smart fire.
they are still bad because toss has 10 new units which practically hard counter them
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Thanks Blizzard for making SC2 so boring. First removing KA for ht so toss players have always to go colossi, now give thor mana so terran players have always to play mmm.
You're saying that removing the Amulet means that Protoss players will never get HTs. So why should you be afraid to use Thors with energy if the Protoss player will never get HTs?
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I find it funny that high templars warp in and cost 100 less resources than a ghost, (50/150 for HTS 200/100 for ghosts) why can't they make ghosts 150/100 they're underused as it is even against the things they counter.
Ghosts can shoot and cloak as well as do comparable damage vs protoss. Having ghosts at 200/100 instead of 150/150 is an early game buff. If you try hard enough you can find a way to have a ghost in your army at an early stage. If that ghost hits 8 stalkers you do 360 damage with 1 emp.
You can build a ghost after RAX/Academy (Our techlab can build during the academy). HT takes Gate/cyber/twilight/templar.
I have a feeling this is a temp buff to ghosts. Incentive for people to build it and realize its potential and then it goes back to a proper value.
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On May 08 2011 11:46 avilo wrote:
[ Usually Protoss gets a free third base, sometimes even fourth base because you have to have a critical mass of tanks to push out, and tanks in SC2 are bad.
Tanks themselves are okay, the reduced damage is made up for by the smart firing. The reason why they seem bad is because of lack of vulture support. The bit that made tanks so powerful was the vulture support that could run around take out zealots, check for expansions, lay spider mines, allow your tank column to settle and take out the remainder of the army, while your new batch of vultures rolled out. But Now bio is much better than what it was in sc1, and you also have immortals, easier control for stalkers. So there isnt a pressing need to get those factories out.
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On May 08 2011 12:02 stanik wrote:Show nested quote +
I find it funny that high templars warp in and cost 100 less resources than a ghost, (50/150 for HTS 200/100 for ghosts) why can't they make ghosts 150/100 they're underused as it is even against the things they counter.
Ghosts can shoot and cloak as well as do comparable damage vs protoss. Having ghosts at 200/100 instead of 150/150 is an early game buff. If you try hard enough you can find a way to have a ghost in your army at an early stage. If that ghost hits 8 stalkers you do 360 damage with 1 emp. You can build a ghost after RAX/Academy (Our techlab can build during the academy). HT takes Gate/cyber/twilight/templar. I have a feeling this is a temp buff to ghosts. Incentive for people to build it and realize its potential and then it goes back to a proper value.
This is a really really biased post. Emp's radius isn't nearly big enough to hit 8 stalkers in even perfect conditions. Its absurd to even say something like emp does more damage, etc, than storm.
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The whole balance off statistics thing is a joke, unless HOTS does something big this game is doomed with the way blizzard patches it.
Or maybe they want everyone to play protoss so they are making the mirror more bearable, who knows.
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On May 08 2011 11:52 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 11:46 avilo wrote:On May 08 2011 08:26 tdt wrote:On May 07 2011 22:15 YoiChiBow wrote:On May 07 2011 22:10 Maynarde wrote:On May 07 2011 19:54 Raiznhell wrote:
Mech is currently seen used successfully once ever million TvX games and I find it dumb. Embellishments <3 Not really embellishments. Professional gamers don't really use mech in TvP because it is extremely exploitable. Obviously you can have success with it if you are left alone on 3 base for an extended period of time. 1.Mobility vs Blink stalker/Colossus 2. Controlling space with minimal units 3.Dealing with quick 2/3 base carrier builds. (No you can't just say go vikings because competent players time out their builds when u are expanding to your third (setting up your economy + needing enough "stuff" to defend it with[this actually deals with reason 2.]) and/or not ready to move out because of you haven't reached critical mass yet). This wasn't too viable in SC1 for protoss vs mech due to the fact Terran in SC1 had competent ground-to-air (the goliath) and could deal with these air timings relatively easy if scouted correctly. All these reasons leave mech to be unviable at the highest levels of play. LOL where are these "quick 2/3 base carrier builds" they don't exist in pro play because carriers take longer than walking across the Sinai and leave you hugely exposed. Not to mention carriers suck compared to BW. No reason Terran doesnt go mech is Zealots and immortals where hits don't matter and collossi who don't get hit. Stop perpetuating the myth that sc2 carriers are bad. SC2 carriers are a lot stronger than SC1 carriers, at minimum equal to SC1 carriers. You don't see them because there's already such strong units like the collosus and everything else, that they are almost never needed. And they take long to get as well, but they are one of the strongest units in the game, just underused. And the main reason people don't go mech vs P is it is very gas intensive and you can't attack effectively with it, as you have to siege + unsiege, and when good protoss see you going mech they build only blink stalkers and collosus and can simply not ever engage your army. Usually Protoss gets a free third base, sometimes even fourth base because you have to have a critical mass of tanks to push out, and tanks in SC2 are bad. i pretty much agree what you said until i read that line. bro, sc2 tanks are 10times better than sc1 tank because of the smart fire.
No they really suck when comparing brute force. In Bw 1aing into a 200 Mech army was suicide. In SC2 not so much-________-.
In small engagements their better in that they don't overkill, but in mass big armies such as the cases of Mech TvP. They suck due to a lack of fire power. Zerg's don't believe thatbecause their units have such low HP that Atk power change on the Tank doesn't really make a difference to them.
Mech is also nerfed by the fact that to stop stalker Collosi one has to commit to mass vikings. And which suck in upfront confrontations and limit your mech army which has become more supply heavy since BW. Having to commit to 40 supply of Vikings just to snipe 4 collosi is stupid.
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SC1 tanks are way way better than SCII tanks.
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On May 08 2011 12:13 tubey wrote:
This is a really really biased post. Emp's radius isn't nearly big enough to hit 8 stalkers in even perfect conditions. Its absurd to even say something like emp does more damage, etc, than storm.
I took your words to heart and decided to test it for myself instead of relying on my imagination.
I loaded up a test map and bunched some stalkers up and EMP'ed the middle.
I hit 13 stalkers. So thank you for re affirming my statement and making it stronger. 1 EMP can hit 13 stalkers, at 80 dmg = 1040 dmg.
As for bias, I used the word our because I am a terran who underuses ghosts.
Lets not get started on the fact that every single zerg unit is biological and snipe worthy.
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On May 08 2011 11:46 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 08:26 tdt wrote:On May 07 2011 22:15 YoiChiBow wrote:On May 07 2011 22:10 Maynarde wrote:On May 07 2011 19:54 Raiznhell wrote:
Mech is currently seen used successfully once ever million TvX games and I find it dumb. Embellishments <3 Not really embellishments. Professional gamers don't really use mech in TvP because it is extremely exploitable. Obviously you can have success with it if you are left alone on 3 base for an extended period of time. 1.Mobility vs Blink stalker/Colossus 2. Controlling space with minimal units 3.Dealing with quick 2/3 base carrier builds. (No you can't just say go vikings because competent players time out their builds when u are expanding to your third (setting up your economy + needing enough "stuff" to defend it with[this actually deals with reason 2.]) and/or not ready to move out because of you haven't reached critical mass yet). This wasn't too viable in SC1 for protoss vs mech due to the fact Terran in SC1 had competent ground-to-air (the goliath) and could deal with these air timings relatively easy if scouted correctly. All these reasons leave mech to be unviable at the highest levels of play. LOL where are these "quick 2/3 base carrier builds" they don't exist in pro play because carriers take longer than walking across the Sinai and leave you hugely exposed. Not to mention carriers suck compared to BW. No reason Terran doesnt go mech is Zealots and immortals where hits don't matter and collossi who don't get hit. Stop perpetuating the myth that sc2 carriers are bad. SC2 carriers are a lot stronger than SC1 carriers, at minimum equal to SC1 carriers. You don't see them because there's already such strong units like the collosus and everything else, that they are almost never needed. And they take long to get as well, but they are one of the strongest units in the game, just underused. And the main reason people don't go mech vs P is it is very gas intensive and you can't attack effectively with it, as you have to siege + unsiege, and when good protoss see you going mech they build only blink stalkers and collosus and can simply not ever engage your army. Usually Protoss gets a free third base, sometimes even fourth base because you have to have a critical mass of tanks to push out, and tanks in SC2 are bad.
-Interceptor AI is relatively more garbage in SC2.
-Terran anti-air is infinitely stronger in this game. Vikings are the gods of capital ship takedown and Marines are buffer than ever.
-The only reason Carriers worked in SC1 was due to Terran going dedicated anti-ground in TvP, now that's never the case.
Don't feed us this bullshit that Carriers are god amazing and we don't use them because of the Colossus. We don't use them because they suck. oGsMC was a base ahead of Jinro in that Scrap Station game and he still lost, because he decided maybe Carriers aren't so bad. They are that bad. Period. Build them against a Terran who knows what they're doing and you'll lose.
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On May 08 2011 12:45 Cloak wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 11:46 avilo wrote:On May 08 2011 08:26 tdt wrote:On May 07 2011 22:15 YoiChiBow wrote:On May 07 2011 22:10 Maynarde wrote:On May 07 2011 19:54 Raiznhell wrote:
Mech is currently seen used successfully once ever million TvX games and I find it dumb. Embellishments <3 Not really embellishments. Professional gamers don't really use mech in TvP because it is extremely exploitable. Obviously you can have success with it if you are left alone on 3 base for an extended period of time. 1.Mobility vs Blink stalker/Colossus 2. Controlling space with minimal units 3.Dealing with quick 2/3 base carrier builds. (No you can't just say go vikings because competent players time out their builds when u are expanding to your third (setting up your economy + needing enough "stuff" to defend it with[this actually deals with reason 2.]) and/or not ready to move out because of you haven't reached critical mass yet). This wasn't too viable in SC1 for protoss vs mech due to the fact Terran in SC1 had competent ground-to-air (the goliath) and could deal with these air timings relatively easy if scouted correctly. All these reasons leave mech to be unviable at the highest levels of play. LOL where are these "quick 2/3 base carrier builds" they don't exist in pro play because carriers take longer than walking across the Sinai and leave you hugely exposed. Not to mention carriers suck compared to BW. No reason Terran doesnt go mech is Zealots and immortals where hits don't matter and collossi who don't get hit. Stop perpetuating the myth that sc2 carriers are bad. SC2 carriers are a lot stronger than SC1 carriers, at minimum equal to SC1 carriers. You don't see them because there's already such strong units like the collosus and everything else, that they are almost never needed. And they take long to get as well, but they are one of the strongest units in the game, just underused. And the main reason people don't go mech vs P is it is very gas intensive and you can't attack effectively with it, as you have to siege + unsiege, and when good protoss see you going mech they build only blink stalkers and collosus and can simply not ever engage your army. Usually Protoss gets a free third base, sometimes even fourth base because you have to have a critical mass of tanks to push out, and tanks in SC2 are bad. Don't feed us this bullshit that Carriers are god amazing and we don't use them because of the Colossus. We don't use them because they suck. oGsMC was a base ahead of Jinro in that Scrap Station game and he still lost, because he decided maybe Carriers aren't so bad. They are that bad. Period. Build them against a Terran who knows what they're doing and you'll lose.
Welcome to a zergs life. I dont play your race...but you need to use this unit because that would completely change your race for the better.
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On May 08 2011 11:46 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 08:26 tdt wrote:On May 07 2011 22:15 YoiChiBow wrote:On May 07 2011 22:10 Maynarde wrote:On May 07 2011 19:54 Raiznhell wrote:
Mech is currently seen used successfully once ever million TvX games and I find it dumb. Embellishments <3 Not really embellishments. Professional gamers don't really use mech in TvP because it is extremely exploitable. Obviously you can have success with it if you are left alone on 3 base for an extended period of time. 1.Mobility vs Blink stalker/Colossus 2. Controlling space with minimal units 3.Dealing with quick 2/3 base carrier builds. (No you can't just say go vikings because competent players time out their builds when u are expanding to your third (setting up your economy + needing enough "stuff" to defend it with[this actually deals with reason 2.]) and/or not ready to move out because of you haven't reached critical mass yet). This wasn't too viable in SC1 for protoss vs mech due to the fact Terran in SC1 had competent ground-to-air (the goliath) and could deal with these air timings relatively easy if scouted correctly. All these reasons leave mech to be unviable at the highest levels of play. LOL where are these "quick 2/3 base carrier builds" they don't exist in pro play because carriers take longer than walking across the Sinai and leave you hugely exposed. Not to mention carriers suck compared to BW. No reason Terran doesnt go mech is Zealots and immortals where hits don't matter and collossi who don't get hit. Stop perpetuating the myth that sc2 carriers are bad. SC2 carriers are a lot stronger than SC1 carriers, at minimum equal to SC1 carriers. You don't see them because there's already such strong units like the collosus and everything else, that they are almost never needed. And they take long to get as well, but they are one of the strongest units in the game, just underused. And the main reason people don't go mech vs P is it is very gas intensive and you can't attack effectively with it, as you have to siege + unsiege, and when good protoss see you going mech they build only blink stalkers and collosus and can simply not ever engage your army. Usually Protoss gets a free third base, sometimes even fourth base because you have to have a critical mass of tanks to push out, and tanks in SC2 are bad.
i know your venting and thats fine but i have to stop you right there we dont have many options to deal with tanks as you would like us all to believe... you are right about cariers though i use them often in my games if my 2gate in his base doesnt kill him i even beat some top 8 platinum with this strategy
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carriers are good if terran goes mech
that's about it
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On May 08 2011 11:46 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 08:26 tdt wrote:On May 07 2011 22:15 YoiChiBow wrote:On May 07 2011 22:10 Maynarde wrote:On May 07 2011 19:54 Raiznhell wrote:
Mech is currently seen used successfully once ever million TvX games and I find it dumb. Embellishments <3 Not really embellishments. Professional gamers don't really use mech in TvP because it is extremely exploitable. Obviously you can have success with it if you are left alone on 3 base for an extended period of time. 1.Mobility vs Blink stalker/Colossus 2. Controlling space with minimal units 3.Dealing with quick 2/3 base carrier builds. (No you can't just say go vikings because competent players time out their builds when u are expanding to your third (setting up your economy + needing enough "stuff" to defend it with[this actually deals with reason 2.]) and/or not ready to move out because of you haven't reached critical mass yet). This wasn't too viable in SC1 for protoss vs mech due to the fact Terran in SC1 had competent ground-to-air (the goliath) and could deal with these air timings relatively easy if scouted correctly. All these reasons leave mech to be unviable at the highest levels of play. LOL where are these "quick 2/3 base carrier builds" they don't exist in pro play because carriers take longer than walking across the Sinai and leave you hugely exposed. Not to mention carriers suck compared to BW. No reason Terran doesnt go mech is Zealots and immortals where hits don't matter and collossi who don't get hit. Stop perpetuating the myth that sc2 carriers are bad. SC2 carriers are a lot stronger than SC1 carriers, at minimum equal to SC1 carriers. You don't see them because there's already such strong units like the collosus and everything else, that they are almost never needed. And they take long to get as well, but they are one of the strongest units in the game, just underused. And the main reason people don't go mech vs P is it is very gas intensive and you can't attack effectively with it, as you have to siege + unsiege, and when good protoss see you going mech they build only blink stalkers and collosus and can simply not ever engage your army. Usually Protoss gets a free third base, sometimes even fourth base because you have to have a critical mass of tanks to push out, and tanks in SC2 are bad.
I think upgrades are a big part of why toss never gets carriers. Since the forge upgrades literally everything except for air, its simply just much better to get 3/3 immortals or colossi to deal with a meching terran than it would be to go for 0/0 carriers.
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On May 08 2011 12:45 Cloak wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 11:46 avilo wrote:On May 08 2011 08:26 tdt wrote:On May 07 2011 22:15 YoiChiBow wrote:On May 07 2011 22:10 Maynarde wrote:On May 07 2011 19:54 Raiznhell wrote:
Mech is currently seen used successfully once ever million TvX games and I find it dumb. Embellishments <3 Not really embellishments. Professional gamers don't really use mech in TvP because it is extremely exploitable. Obviously you can have success with it if you are left alone on 3 base for an extended period of time. 1.Mobility vs Blink stalker/Colossus 2. Controlling space with minimal units 3.Dealing with quick 2/3 base carrier builds. (No you can't just say go vikings because competent players time out their builds when u are expanding to your third (setting up your economy + needing enough "stuff" to defend it with[this actually deals with reason 2.]) and/or not ready to move out because of you haven't reached critical mass yet). This wasn't too viable in SC1 for protoss vs mech due to the fact Terran in SC1 had competent ground-to-air (the goliath) and could deal with these air timings relatively easy if scouted correctly. All these reasons leave mech to be unviable at the highest levels of play. LOL where are these "quick 2/3 base carrier builds" they don't exist in pro play because carriers take longer than walking across the Sinai and leave you hugely exposed. Not to mention carriers suck compared to BW. No reason Terran doesnt go mech is Zealots and immortals where hits don't matter and collossi who don't get hit. Stop perpetuating the myth that sc2 carriers are bad. SC2 carriers are a lot stronger than SC1 carriers, at minimum equal to SC1 carriers. You don't see them because there's already such strong units like the collosus and everything else, that they are almost never needed. And they take long to get as well, but they are one of the strongest units in the game, just underused. And the main reason people don't go mech vs P is it is very gas intensive and you can't attack effectively with it, as you have to siege + unsiege, and when good protoss see you going mech they build only blink stalkers and collosus and can simply not ever engage your army. Usually Protoss gets a free third base, sometimes even fourth base because you have to have a critical mass of tanks to push out, and tanks in SC2 are bad. -Interceptor AI is relatively more garbage in SC2. -Terran anti-air is infinitely stronger in this game. Vikings are the gods of capital ship takedown and Marines are buffer than ever. -The only reason Carriers worked in SC1 was due to Terran going dedicated anti-ground in TvP, now that's never the case. Don't feed us this bullshit that Carriers are god amazing and we don't use them because of the Colossus. We don't use them because they suck. oGsMC was a base ahead of Jinro in that Scrap Station game and he still lost, because he decided maybe Carriers aren't so bad. They are that bad. Period. Build them against a Terran who knows what they're doing and you'll lose.
I'll trade you my vikings for goliaths and wraiths plz
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carriers are good if terran goes mech
no they aren't. they're good if terran goes mech, and then for whatever reason decides to leave you alone forever while you mass up a unit that takes twice as long as a Thor to build (with chrono its marginally faster, but not much, and you'll also need to build interceptors which tacks on another 30 seconds). It also takes much longer to tech to than the Thor, has a mandatory upgrade in graviton caitpult, and costs an absurd 450/250 which ensures you won't be building much of an army during that time, and it is also really, really reliant on being even or ahead on upgrades, which sucks for Toss since they usually much prefer ground upgrades.
Carriers are fine once you have a bunch of them with all their upgrades. But getting to that point leaves a ridiculously huge window of vulnerability.
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On May 08 2011 12:25 DooMDash wrote:
SC1 tanks are way way better than SCII tanks.
They certainly sound a lot cooler 
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On May 08 2011 12:25 DooMDash wrote:
SC1 tanks are way way better than SCII tanks.
I don't think it's actually a difference in the tanks.
I think people are perceiving tanks as worse, when it's actually shields that got better. In BW, Protoss shields took full damage regardless of damage type and unit size. So, one tank shot would take all the shields off of Zealots.
While sieged tanks deal less damage a shot (to armored targets) in SC2 than BW, they comparatively shoot faster. BW Tanks shoot about once every 3.2 Zealot swings, or once every 4.8 Marine shots. In SC2, Tanks shoot about once every 2.5 Zealot swings, and once every 3.4 Marine shots. Thus, they comparatively have a larger damage output against Light units and a comparable damage against Armored units. With the better targeting and longer range, each individual SC2 tank is better at killing things than a BW tank.
SC2 tanks also have 10 more HP, cost 25 more gas, and take 1 supply more. Overall, I'd say that the two negatives there about balance out the positives. My assessment is that SC2 Tanks are about the same as BW tanks.
The difference in Mech vs Protoss is the lack of spider mines, which prevented the Protoss army from just charging into a Tank line, and Zealot shields taking an extra hit because they don't take full damage. Between the two, Zealots are far more effective against Tanks than they were in BW.
Well, there's also Immortals. But, mass Immortals is really asking for a few Ghosts..
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EPT
