EPTPerformance Enhancing Drug in Starcraft 2? Yes. - Page 19
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Shrewmy
Australia199 Posts
| ||
|
Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
Paracelsus (1493-1541) "All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous." For Starcraft 2 you would have to use these things during your training to get used to it. Since NONE of you has a personal doctor to watch for any side effects you would become addicted to the stuff and in the end be plagued by massive side effects. It is like any addiction ... your playing skill would start to suck without it, so you would start to take it during laddering even if you didnt mean to do it at the start and thus the addiction starts. | ||
|
chonkyfire
United States451 Posts
On April 07 2011 13:30 Honeybadger wrote: I'm not going to sit here and argue chemistry over the internet. It's not my job to convince you I'm right, it's your job to educate yourself, which I suggest you do. And not using wikipedia. Take a chemistry class, a biology class, and then a few more, pass your MCAT's and then get back to me, because -then- we'll be on a level field of understanding this subject. Also it might help if you did your thesis on an ADHD related subject. Are you backing up your complete ignorance on the subject by claiming your an expert? This is completely ignoring the fact that even testing for adderall and any other prescription CNS stimulant is unbelievably impractical, expensive, and ridiculous to even attempt. How are we supposed to test for a drug that has a half-life of 10-12 hours? Test every single player at the end of the day, every day? A drug test that includes adderall in its detection costs about $20. MLG is a relatively short. Over the 3 days, it would have cost MLG THOUSANDS of dollars in drug testing, and been insanely complex. When it's a struggle to keep a stream reliable, what do you think about daily drug testing? What does this have to do with amphetamine improving performance? I could care less if it's legal, I think it should be. | ||
|
iSTime
1579 Posts
On April 07 2011 13:30 Honeybadger wrote: I'm not going to sit here and argue chemistry over the internet. It's not my job to convince you I'm right, it's your job to educate yourself, which I suggest you do. And not using wikipedia. Take a chemistry class, a biology class, and then a few more, pass your MCAT's and then get back to me, because -then- we'll be on a level field of understanding this subject. Also it might help if you did your thesis on an ADHD related subject. This is completely ignoring the fact that even testing for adderall and any other prescription CNS stimulant is unbelievably impractical, expensive, and ridiculous to even attempt. How are we supposed to test for a drug that has a half-life of 10-12 hours? Test every single player at the end of the day, every day? A drug test that includes adderall in its detection costs about $20. MLG is a relatively short. Over the 3 days, it would have cost MLG THOUSANDS of dollars in drug testing, and been insanely complex. When it's a struggle to keep a stream reliable, what do you think about daily drug testing? For someone being all high and mighty about drug knowledge, the fact that you think it would require daily testing to catch amphetamine usage is 100% lol-able. A urine test any time on the 3rd day would easily test positive for a decent percentage of people who used it that day and the two days prior. NOTE: I don't condone drug testing, but lol at saying that because it has a half-life of 10-12 hours that it can't be detected in a urine sample for several days after usage. | ||
|
Sajuuk7
134 Posts
1. Enforcing it is far too ridiculous. 1a. It costs too much money. 1b. It costs too much time. 1c. It's hard to detect. 1d. It creates tons of drama. 1e. Some players have ADD/ADHD. 2. The playing difference and side effects of Adderall are not even comparible to the playing difference and side effects of Steroids. It won't be necessary for players who don't normally take Adderall to have to use it to stay on an "even playing field". | ||
|
FuriousCarl
1 Post
While I am in no way a neurobiology expert, I do strongly believe that Adderall and all other psychostimulants should NOT enhance concentration in healthy individuals, unless they suffer from ADHD (I'll spare you the neurobiology details). However, it will definitely arouse a tired individual, in a similar manner to caffeine. If Non-ADHD gamers use it just to stay more awake, than this is clearly an illegal and bizarre (potentially harmful) way to increase performance, and I am very surprised to hear that is is so widely used !? A healthy lifestyle with good sleep hygiene (or some caffeine?)should be more than enough for any pro-gamer. Also, the stress of competing should bring enough of your own stimulating neurotransmitters that you definitely wouldn't need extra help from a medication. ADHD gamers will definitely have enhanced concentration with psychostimulants, but they have impaired concentration abilities to begin with, and therefore should take their medications for competitions. Drug testing for psychostimulants is available and should be able to pick up various amphetamines-like substance for 1-3 days post-use (remember, a half-life of 10-12 hours only means that you have half the concentration of the drug in your blood by that time). Anyway, I don't think pro-gamers would benefit much from psychostimulants, and therefore I don't think it is worth screening for. | ||
|
Honeybadger
United States821 Posts
On April 07 2011 13:59 chonkyfire wrote: Are you backing up your complete ignorance on the subject by claiming your an expert? Not an expert, but certainly actually -in- the field you're talking about. Which I'm going to hazard a guess you are not. What does this have to do with amphetamine improving performance? I could care less if it's legal, I think it should be. The discussion at hand is whether or not they should be allowed. Anything else is semantics. I stand by my statement. Go do real research outside of the internet, talk to some psychs about the drugs and the disease, and then PM me in a couple weeks if you want to continue this discussion. Otherwise, just drop it and go argue with someone else, please. | ||
|
eggs
1011 Posts
if WPT doesn't ban them, why should the GSL? | ||
|
chonkyfire
United States451 Posts
On April 07 2011 14:41 Honeybadger wrote: Not an expert, but certainly actually -in- the field you're talking about. Which I'm going to hazard a guess you are not. You have no idea what you are talking about. Go back and re-read your posts. They make no sense. | ||
|
hmsrenown
Canada1263 Posts
On April 07 2011 14:31 FuriousCarl wrote: Hey guys, I am a canadian psychiatry resident. Just thought I'd pop in and give my two cents. Sorry for not reading the 19 pages of previous posts... While I am in no way a neurobiology expert, I do strongly believe that Adderall and all other psychostimulants should NOT enhance concentration in healthy individuals, unless they suffer from ADHD (I'll spare you the neurobiology details). However, it will definitely arouse a tired individual, in a similar manner to caffeine. If Non-ADHD gamers use it just to stay more awake, than this is clearly an illegal and bizarre (potentially harmful) way to increase performance, and I am very surprised to hear that is is so widely used !? A healthy lifestyle with good sleep hygiene (or some caffeine?)should be more than enough for any pro-gamer. Also, the stress of competing should bring enough of your own stimulating neurotransmitters that you definitely wouldn't need extra help from a medication. ADHD gamers will definitely have enhanced concentration with psychostimulants, but they have impaired concentration abilities to begin with, and therefore should take their medications for competitions. Drug testing for psychostimulants is available and should be able to pick up various amphetamines-like substance for 1-3 days post-use (remember, a half-life of 10-12 hours only means that you have half the concentration of the drug in your blood by that time). Anyway, I don't think pro-gamers would benefit much from psychostimulants, and therefore I don't think it is worth screening for. I found it hard to believe that people just slap this designation on certain drugs and then say "BAN THEM!!!!" without actually knowing the full effect of the medication. | ||
|
chonkyfire
United States451 Posts
On April 07 2011 14:31 FuriousCarl wrote: However, it will definitely arouse a tired individual, in a similar manner to caffeine. If Non-ADHD gamers use it just to stay more awake, than this is clearly an illegal and bizarre (potentially harmful) way to increase performance, and I am very surprised to hear that is is so widely used !? A healthy lifestyle with good sleep hygiene (or some caffeine?)should be more than enough for any pro-gamer. Also, the stress of competing should bring enough of your own stimulating neurotransmitters that you definitely wouldn't need extra help from a medication. 20 milligrams to a non tolerant person would be more than enough to get the other effects amphetamines. Amphetamines are the gold standard of stimulants. It's one of the most powerful/efficient stimulants in the world. Say 20 milligrams boosts a players focus, improves his self esteem, gives him confidence and improves his mental endurance. You don't think a skilled player would benefit from all those? Especially in a tournament setting which can be very stressful. Starcraft 2 is a very mentally demanding game. There are so many things you need to do and such little room for error. What happens when people have builds set to perfect timings. That's not an easy thing to do, but I imagine speed would make it a bit easier at the appropriate dosage. Again, personally I have zero problem with using psychostimulants, but there's no reason to disclaim it as a performance enhancer. There's such little respect for a such a powerful drug in this thread. | ||
|
Zeke50100
United States2220 Posts
Oh, and hand-warmers, comfortable clothes, and personalized equipment all give advantages, too. To hell with all of them. What's up with biased polls clearly directing people to vote in a certain way? It doesn't get the community's actual thoughts at all. Throw in "performance enhancing" in the title and of course people will say no. | ||
|
nicotn
Netherlands186 Posts
On April 07 2011 15:47 chonkyfire wrote: 20 milligrams to a non tolerant person would be more than enough to get the other effects amphetamines. Amphetamines are the gold standard of stimulants. It's one of the most powerful/efficient stimulants in the world. Say 20 milligrams boosts a players focus, improves his self esteem, gives him confidence and improves his mental endurance. You don't think a skilled player would benefit from all those? Especially in a tournament setting which can be very stressful. Starcraft 2 is a very mentally demanding game. There are so many things you need to do and such little room for error. What happens when people have builds set to perfect timings. That's not an easy thing to do, but I imagine speed would make it a bit easier at the appropriate dosage. Again, personally I have zero problem with using psychostimulants, but there's no reason to disclaim it as a performance enhancer. There's such little respect for a such a powerful drug in this thread. as a frequent amphetamine user, i agree with you. speed gives a great edge, (reaction time, remembering etc) i often pull an all nighter when on it. almost never lose ANYTHING because i just play almost perfectly. (could be opponents), That's not an easy thing to do, but I imagine speed would make it a bit easier at the appropriate dosage. not a bit easier, allot! | ||
|
nicotn
Netherlands186 Posts
On April 07 2011 13:53 Rabiator wrote: Dont do drugs ... Paracelsus (1493-1541) "All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous." For Starcraft 2 you would have to use these things during your training to get used to it. Since NONE of you has a personal doctor to watch for any side effects you would become addicted to the stuff and in the end be plagued by massive side effects. It is like any addiction ... your playing skill would start to suck without it, so you would start to take it during laddering even if you didnt mean to do it at the start and thus the addiction starts. only weak people with no willpower get addicted to performance enhancing drugs | ||
|
nicotn
Netherlands186 Posts
On April 07 2011 08:50 chonkyfire wrote: Okay first speed is slang for amphetamine. Second coke and methamphetamine are abused for "rushing". Rushing is and extreme change in mood that is achieved by ROA's other than oral. Methamphetamine also releases a considerable amount more serotonin than regular amphetamine does, resulting in more euphoria. A normal person taking amphetamines will result in elevated mood, increased focus, increased self esteem, increased motivation and increased cognitive functioning. Amphetamines aren't going to make your APM rise (possible though), they are going to cause you to make less mistakes and make good decisions. You will remember things that are going on the game easier and the game will just be easier in general as compared to without amphetamine. Also depending on the person, it could help immensely anxiety, or potentially exacerbate, but for most people not likely. This shit is all scientifically proven. I don't know why people are really arguing about it. as a amphetamine user this post is 100% true | ||
|
iSTime
1579 Posts
On April 07 2011 15:51 Zeke50100 wrote: Caffeine should be banned, too, since it stimulates the body. Oh, and hand-warmers, comfortable clothes, and personalized equipment all give advantages, too. To hell with all of them. What's up with biased polls clearly directing people to vote in a certain way? It doesn't get the community's actual thoughts at all. Throw in "performance enhancing" in the title and of course people will say no. Yes, illegal substances with obvious downsides are clearly equivalent to comfortable clothing. WTF is wrong with your head? | ||
|
Razith
Canada431 Posts
The drug isn't going to make you more intelligent, its going to increase your focus. What I mean is you are able to focus so much on the game that you effectively block out invaluable inputs and focus solely on valuable inputs. The inputs will be digested and retained so efficiently that less mental power is spent on processing the information and the freed up mental power can be used for something like decision making and strategic planning. Do I think this should be allowed? Most likely not due to the fact it does give you a competitive advantage and consistent use may cause dependency. However, it could make for some very interesting games. | ||
|
delHospital
Poland261 Posts
On April 08 2011 02:20 PJA wrote: Yes, illegal substances with obvious downsides are clearly equivalent to comfortable clothing. WTF is wrong with your head? Oh, it's illegal and it has downsides. Now you've convinced me. Too bad I can't go back in time and change my vote. Energy drink consumption is tolerated, and even encouraged, if a sponsor happens to be an energy drink manufacturer, despite the fact that it (as advertised on Red Bull's website):
And, yeah, WTF is wrong with his head?... | ||
|
sambo400
United States378 Posts
| ||
|
TigerKarl
1757 Posts
As ugly as the fact, that most sports dudes are diagnosed with asthma and get that medication therefore. I really hate it that this retarded stuff might infect starcraft and esports now., | ||
| ||
