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On April 07 2011 07:56 Honeybadger wrote:
It's not an amphetamine like coke or speed (molecularly, it is) because the potency is so low. Senses of euphoria are not present unless you're abusing the crap out of it. And at that point, it's going to be giving you an irregular heart rhythm, involuntary muscle contractions, and potentially severe paranoia.
Okay first speed is slang for amphetamine. Second coke and methamphetamine are abused for "rushing". Rushing is and extreme change in mood that is achieved by ROA's other than oral. Methamphetamine also releases a considerable amount more serotonin than regular amphetamine does, resulting in more euphoria.
A normal person taking amphetamines will result in elevated mood, increased focus, increased self esteem, increased motivation and increased cognitive functioning.
Amphetamines aren't going to make your APM rise (possible though), they are going to cause you to make less mistakes and make good decisions. You will remember things that are going on the game easier and the game will just be easier in general as compared to without amphetamine. Also depending on the person, it could help immensely anxiety, or potentially exacerbate, but for most people not likely.
This shit is all scientifically proven. I don't know why people are really arguing about it.
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Legality of various enhancers and damaging effects aside, what's at the core of this question is the competitors and their working enviroment. Any athlete serious about their sport will go to extreme lengths to further their mastery of their chosen sport in their quest to become "The Best". One of the main reasons why doping/performance-enhancing drugs is forbidden in sports, is not purely because those that use it gets a significant advantage (either in practice or actual events, or both) above non-users. The point, instead, lies in the fact that whoever ISN'T using it, puts themselves at a serious disadvantage if they refuse to dope themselves if it is allowed.
The question here should really be "do we want ourselves and our fellow gamers to be forced to dope themselves when playing?", as that's the reality of the situation - if it's legal, there is not a question about doing it or not if one wants to reach the top.
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I bet most if not all progamers that take adderall do so because they have ADD or ADHD and if they did not take it they would be at an unfair disadvantage because they could not concentrate, players with add or adhd need to take adderall just to concentrate properly. Also the way adderall works to my understanding is it helps people with ADD/ ADHD concentrate but for people with out those disorders it doesnt have the same effect and could actually make their gameplay worse, for people with ADD /ADHD it slows them down helps them concentrate and helps their brain not think of a million things at once , for people without it can very well do the opposite and make the restless/ edgy (a psychiatrist told me this before when i asked about taking Adderal to help me during exam time as i sometimes get nervous and cant concentrate). I do understand that depending on brain chemistry it can help you concentrate regardless of having ADD/ADHD but for the most part it is only really benificial for people with these disorders (wich are quite common)
People with these disorders are at a disadvantage without taking it so i dont really see the harm at all.
For specifically adderall i think it would be ridiculous to enforce such rules.
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Voted no though that leaves the problem of enforcing specially when playing online
Dont realy see a reasonable way to enforce this so maybe for now its best to leave it as it is
mentallyafk April 07 2011 07:34. Posts 22
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wtf is this??
i have taken adderall and just about every drug there is in my life and i can safely say that sober is the best mindset you can be in for playing sc2.
allow it. let duimbasses be dumb
Do they ban adderall/nootropics from chess tournaments???
Drugs are bad mkay
they don't make you better at starcraft
Not sure if adderall is banned from chess tournaments but i do know that manny other mental stimuli are (weed amongst other things lol) and i am sure if adderall was giving some advantage it would (or already is) banned also
Chess federation does not like to enforce it btw as far as i know and they only agreed to the international doping rules to get more recognition as serious sport
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Adderal would definitely give an advantage. Should be banned.
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Have any of you taken adderal? Adderal increases focus, do any of you have trouble focusing on the game when your playing? If so, yes it would give you an advantage, but I seriously doubt it would give most people an advantage as it doesnt improve your ability to think "faster" or something like that. When I play a video game I am seriously focused on it already. I doubt its really doing anything for these guys that a cup of coffee wouldn't do just as well.
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On April 07 2011 09:09 statikg wrote:
Have any of you taken adderal? Adderal increases focus, do any of you have trouble focusing on the game when your playing? If so, yes it would give you an advantage, but I seriously doubt it would give most people an advantage as it doesnt improve your ability to think "faster" or something like that. When I play a video game I am seriously focused on it already. I doubt its really doing anything for these guys that a cup of coffee wouldn't do just as well.
Dopamine is directly involved with self esteem, mood, cognitive functioning, sociability and arguably intelligence.
Do you know what adderall does? I'll give you a hint, it involves dopamine.
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OK i will concede that dopamine does increase self esteem, mood etc. but your other claims are pure scientific speculation and based on debated and unproven facts.
Its possible that it might increase your intellectual stamina, but common these guys are professional gamers, they play 8+ hours a day, I don't think they need that much help with stamina.
The point is, it doesn't in any way directly increase your skill at the game, which I think is the only reason it would be unfair (as compared to caffeine which nobody says is unfair).
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On April 07 2011 06:54 Moody wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2011 06:14 lettle wrote:On April 07 2011 06:06 Moody wrote:On April 07 2011 05:57 REM.ca wrote:On April 07 2011 05:17 AJMcSpiffy wrote:
I'd want to see an actual comparison between playing ability with and without these drugs,. This. WTB double-blind placebo trial to see if effects of adderall on cognitive performance translates to game performance. And I'd hope to god the difference would be non-significant if only to encourage players to stop injesting the stuff. LoL!!! I dunno if you've ever taken any ADHD medication, but when the "double blind placebo trial" you're suggesting takes place, the people in the trial will know for damn sure that they're on the medication, and the people not on it will feel the same as they always do. While I was in college, I took enough aderal to kill Charlie Sheen during finals weeks. Let me assure you, there's no way to mistake placebo effect for the actual effect. Yeah man! Science? Fuck that, this guy has a story. Double blind trials only work if it's truly a double blind. Have you ever taken any ADHD medication? Let me tell you what happens: 1.) Cotton mouth 2.) Dry eyes because you forget to blink 3.) Dry sinus cavity 4.) WIDE AWAKE 5.) Lose track of time / spend hours doing unimportant things 6.) When you come down, you feel like shit. Now.. Can a placebo do all of these? Please don't be a douche anymore on these forums... I know your other 27 posts are all probably extremely high quality and contribute to the community, but this one doesn't.
They've done double-blind trials with acid and people on placebo thought they had taken acid.
I'm pretty sure you can placebo up some wakefulness if you can placebo an acid trip.
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Stimulants as a means to gain an advantage is definitely out of the question, but since some people require stimulants to function normally and ADHD could potentially be faked enforcing it would be impossible :/
EDIT: and do you really think GSL and MLG are gonna require drug tests lol?
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On April 07 2011 09:26 statikg wrote:
OK i will concede that dopamine does increase self esteem, mood etc. but your other claims are pure scientific speculation and based on debated and unproven facts.
Its possible that it might increase your intellectual stamina, but common these guys are professional gamers, they play 8+ hours a day, I don't think they need that much help with stamina.
The point is, it doesn't in any way directly increase your skill at the game, which I think is the only reason it would be unfair (as compared to caffeine which nobody says is unfair).
It definitely will have an effect on your thinking ability while playing the game though.
There's so many things that need to be done to win at starcraft on the professional level and there is very little room for error.
When it comes to trying to achieve perfection in the game and having complete control, there's no denying amphetamines will give you an edge.
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On April 07 2011 09:53 Gecko wrote:
Stimulants as a means to gain an advantage is definitely out of the question, but since some people require stimulants to function normally and ADHD could potentially be faked enforcing it would be impossible :/
The problem is the doctor's diagnosing ADHD do not do it properly. They will just give you a test and you could easily bomb it and get a prescription.
ADHD is a genuine impairment that is shown through someone's behavior over a long period of time. Everyday functioning is impaired if you have ADHD. Chances are if you are a pro starcraft 2 player with actual ADHD, you didn't become a pro without the aid of amphetamines over last year.
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There are people who have a prescription and actually need drugs like adderoll to function/concentrate properly in the way that other people think is natural. Those people should be allowed to use it, especially considering I'm one of them and take it everyday whether I play sc or not  .
Important to note though, research has shown that people who are attracted to fast paced competitive video games are more likely to have ADD, as people with ADD are drawn to things which can hold their attention with a lot of stimulation (i.e. ADD patients want an activity requiring 300apm (starcraft) because it will hold their attention, even though they could still have a harder time focusing than someone without ADD) - So its likely that a significant number of starcraft players actually have ADD, and take adderoll prescribed by a doctor.
Otherwise yes, it's the same thing as steroids, don't think a poll was really necessary.
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On April 07 2011 10:04 GhettoSheep wrote:There are people who have a prescription and actually need drugs like adderoll to function/concentrate properly in the way that other people think is natural. Those people should be allowed to use it, especially considering I'm one of them and take it everyday whether I play sc or not . Important to note though, research has shown that people who are attracted to fast paced competitive video games are more likely to have ADD, as people with ADD are drawn to things which can hold their attention with a lot of stimulation (i.e. ADD patients want an activity requiring 300apm (starcraft) because it will hold their attention, even though they could still have a harder time focusing than someone without ADD) - So its likely that a significant number of starcraft players actually have ADD, and take adderoll prescribed by a doctor. Otherwise yes, it's the same thing as steroids, don't think a poll was really necessary.
Yeah but remember symptoms of true ADHD begin in early childhood.
I know a lot of kids who did fantastic in high school, 3.5 + and suddenly had ADHD once college started. It's a joke. For it to be true ADHD it has to cause significant impairment in social / work functioning.
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Steroids also have legitimate uses and people who legitimately need them. That doesn't make them OK, either.
Definitely against. And if MLG can get sued over not allowing players to be on adderal, who's suing MLB for not allowing players to be on steroids or other muscle-building drugs?
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On April 07 2011 02:29 SeizeTheDay wrote:
Well think about it this way.. in baseball / football / almost any other sport there are cheaters.. there are people who do Steroids I mean we aren't dumb there are people that take some type of drug to help them... Now with this there will be people taking drugs for gaming to make them play better, I can remember in CounterStrike 1.6 the fact was if I smoked a lil weed before I played, I played better I played almost unstoppable that is when CPL said well we are going to "drug" test people before they can play in the CPL. From what I know it was never enforced.. But The fact is we cant stop it.. I am sure someone is already doing it.. just to get an edge up i am sure of it. We cant stop that person... So it really donst matter.
Too true. My bro mkp recommended to me. he was like "ching chong ding dong ling long adderol,"
and i was like "ooooooooh."
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Adderol increases focus but REDUCES creativity in the mind. Imo creativity is much more important than focus.
Adderol basically turns you into a drone. Would you rather be a drone or a blink stalker?
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On April 07 2011 08:50 chonkyfire wrote:Okay first speed is slang for amphetamine. Second coke and methamphetamine are abused for "rushing". Rushing is and extreme change in mood that is achieved by ROA's other than oral. Methamphetamine also releases a considerable amount more serotonin than regular amphetamine does, resulting in more euphoria.
A normal person taking amphetamines will result in elevated mood, increased focus, increased self esteem, increased motivation and increased cognitive functioning.
Amphetamines aren't going to make your APM rise (possible though), they are going to cause you to make less mistakes and make good decisions. You will remember things that are going on the game easier and the game will just be easier in general as compared to without amphetamine. Also depending on the person, it could help immensely anxiety, or potentially exacerbate, but for most people not likely.
This shit is all scientifically proven. I don't know why people are really arguing about it.
I'm not going to sit here and argue chemistry over the internet. It's not my job to convince you I'm right, it's your job to educate yourself, which I suggest you do. And not using wikipedia. Take a chemistry class, a biology class, and then a few more, pass your MCAT's and then get back to me, because -then- we'll be on a level field of understanding this subject. Also it might help if you did your thesis on an ADHD related subject.
This is completely ignoring the fact that even testing for adderall and any other prescription CNS stimulant is unbelievably impractical, expensive, and ridiculous to even attempt.
How are we supposed to test for a drug that has a half-life of 10-12 hours? Test every single player at the end of the day, every day? A drug test that includes adderall in its detection costs about $20. MLG is a relatively short. Over the 3 days, it would have cost MLG THOUSANDS of dollars in drug testing, and been insanely complex. When it's a struggle to keep a stream reliable, what do you think about daily drug testing?
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wat..i think everyone should be allowed to use it. if they make a rule against it then only some people will use it instead of most. Which makes it more unfair because of the people who take the risk of using it.
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Adderall? Yes, if it is prescribed for someone diagnosed with ADHD. No, not without a prescription for them.
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EPT
