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On April 08 2011 02:53 delHospital wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 02:20 PJA wrote:On April 07 2011 15:51 Zeke50100 wrote:
Caffeine should be banned, too, since it stimulates the body.
Oh, and hand-warmers, comfortable clothes, and personalized equipment all give advantages, too. To hell with all of them.
What's up with biased polls clearly directing people to vote in a certain way? It doesn't get the community's actual thoughts at all. Throw in "performance enhancing" in the title and of course people will say no. Yes, illegal substances with obvious downsides are clearly equivalent to comfortable clothing. WTF is wrong with your head? Oh, it's illegal and it has downsides. Now you've convinced me. Too bad I can't go back in time and change my vote. Energy drink consumption is tolerated, and even encouraged, if a sponsor happens to be an energy drink manufacturer, despite the fact that it (as advertised on Red Bull's website): - Increases performance
- Increases concentration and reaction speed
- Improves vigilance
- Stimulates metabolism
- Makes you feel more energetic and thus improves your overall well-being
And, yeah, WTF is wrong with his head?...
[ ] Relevant to what I said.
@"Saying Adderall is illegal because people lie about their needs":
And what about the people who are taking it illegally, the group I am actually talking about? Why the hell would you assume I am calling legal users of adderall illegal users? Your logic is astonishingly retarded.
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I take a high release prescription of psycho-stimulants every day for medical reasons. I do perform incomparably better while on it. Regardless of effect, it should hands down be allowed. If I was made to chose between playing starcraft and taking my medication, I would be outraged.
This thread is completely ludicrous, some of us actually need these drugs on a daily basis. I can't believe there's a thread on it. And I can't believe the majority of people say no.
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While not to the same degree obviously, other, legal drugs stimulate dopamine in the brain as well. Should we ban caffeine because that also gives a player an edge? Someone who takes caffeine before playing will have a notable advantage concentration wise over someone who doesn't (unless they are someone who responds abnormally).
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This would be a terrible rule.
1. It's almost impossible to enforce.
2. What about things like caffine? Is it banned?
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why the hell is this thread still alive?
As has been stated before not only is it a hard thing to enforce its also got questionable uses in the first place so this is all moot...
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On April 08 2011 07:22 PJA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 02:53 delHospital wrote:On April 08 2011 02:20 PJA wrote:On April 07 2011 15:51 Zeke50100 wrote:
Caffeine should be banned, too, since it stimulates the body.
Oh, and hand-warmers, comfortable clothes, and personalized equipment all give advantages, too. To hell with all of them.
What's up with biased polls clearly directing people to vote in a certain way? It doesn't get the community's actual thoughts at all. Throw in "performance enhancing" in the title and of course people will say no. Yes, illegal substances with obvious downsides are clearly equivalent to comfortable clothing. WTF is wrong with your head? Oh, it's illegal and it has downsides. Now you've convinced me. Too bad I can't go back in time and change my vote. Energy drink consumption is tolerated, and even encouraged, if a sponsor happens to be an energy drink manufacturer, despite the fact that it (as advertised on Red Bull's website): - Increases performance
- Increases concentration and reaction speed
- Improves vigilance
- Stimulates metabolism
- Makes you feel more energetic and thus improves your overall well-being
And, yeah, WTF is wrong with his head?... [ ] Relevant to what I said. @"Saying Adderall is illegal because people lie about their needs": And what about the people who are taking it illegally, the group I am actually talking about? Why the hell would you assume I am calling legal users of adderall illegal users? Your logic is astonishingly retarded.
Because that's identical to saying "Caffeine should be banned because people steal soda". Your logic never existed.
Abusing a prescription isn't illegal, by the way.
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Ok first of all half the kids of our generation are considered "ADD" or "ADHD" clinically and are prescribed Adderall. I don't think this puts them any higher morally than people using it illegally. Thats like saying people with cannabis cards in California need them to "medicate" when in reality everyone I know with a legal prescription to Marijuana is a complete pothead and obtained it for minor back pain, anxiety, or insomnia. Also, it isn't really comparable to Caffeine because the two drugs, while being Psycho stimulants, are on completely different levels. Sports athletes are allowed to use many different performance enhancing supplements but you can't compare them to Anabolic Steroids. By comparison I feel like Adderall is indeed the anabolic steroid for e-sports.
Enforcing it isn't really an option at this point because e-sports just isn't big enough. Imagine the cost involved with piss testing EVERY competitor in every major tournament, the organizations simply aren't big enough and there isn't enough money on the line to warrant testing.
I just don't see a feasible way to stop it.......
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EDIT: Obviously my opinion is that people who have prescriptions should be tolerated, but people who don't shouldn't. Also, it's impractical to test so whatever.
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On April 08 2011 09:43 PainUser wrote: ...Enforcing it isn't really an option at this point because e-sports just isn't big enough. Imagine the cost involved with piss testing EVERY competitor in every major tournament, the organizations simply aren't big enough and there isn't enough money on the line to warrant testing.
This along with the medical needs people have been talking about is enough reason to shelve the idea of a perma ban on performance enhancing drugs (PED's?) IMO.
If the GSL and what not feel it is a serious issue, I think the best they may be able to do is release PED guidelines stating their tournaments position on the use of these substances. Guidelines, although not enforced, could state that they condone legitimate medical use of certain drugs but do not approve of illegal or non-medical use of these substances.
It gives them a framework upon which to build should they wish to push the issue. You could add caveats like 'if a player is conclusively caught in contravention of these rules they face penalty' or something like that.
Similarly, a lot of contracts have general clauses about one party annuling their contracts if they break local law (I'm thinking employment contracts, internet plans and so on...). Again if a tourney wanted to push the issue they could use these sorts of clauses to reprimand people, meaning they don't have to test everyone, they could just penalise players if they were caught.
FWIW I think the sport is still too much in it's infancy to go down such a murky and legalistic path, the issue is a concern, but perhaps one that is worth revisiting down the line some what.
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On April 08 2011 09:43 PainUser wrote:
Ok first of all half the kids of our generation are considered "ADD" or "ADHD" clinically and are prescribed Adderall. I don't think this puts them any higher morally than people using it illegally. Thats like saying people with cannabis cards in California need them to "medicate" when in reality everyone I know with a legal prescription to Marijuana is a complete pothead and obtained it for minor back pain, anxiety, or insomnia.
Your signature is really fitting, considering the contents of your post. It's hard to argue that ADD/ADHD isn't overdiagnosed, but that doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who legitimately suffer from it. It's the same as the medical marijuana thing; there are people out there who went to some skeevy doctor who's no more than a small-time dealer with a degree, and there are people who legitimately benefit from the drug.
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On April 08 2011 07:22 PJA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 02:53 delHospital wrote:On April 08 2011 02:20 PJA wrote:On April 07 2011 15:51 Zeke50100 wrote:
Caffeine should be banned, too, since it stimulates the body.
Oh, and hand-warmers, comfortable clothes, and personalized equipment all give advantages, too. To hell with all of them.
What's up with biased polls clearly directing people to vote in a certain way? It doesn't get the community's actual thoughts at all. Throw in "performance enhancing" in the title and of course people will say no. Yes, illegal substances with obvious downsides are clearly equivalent to comfortable clothing. WTF is wrong with your head? Oh, it's illegal and it has downsides. Now you've convinced me. Too bad I can't go back in time and change my vote. Energy drink consumption is tolerated, and even encouraged, if a sponsor happens to be an energy drink manufacturer, despite the fact that it (as advertised on Red Bull's website): - Increases performance
- Increases concentration and reaction speed
- Improves vigilance
- Stimulates metabolism
- Makes you feel more energetic and thus improves your overall well-being
And, yeah, WTF is wrong with his head?... [ ] Relevant to what I said.
Mind explaining the difference between allowing illicit and licit substances, where both are "performance-enhancing"?
Besides, what substance are you talking about? What are the "obvious downsides"? Any significant long-term effects? Because otherwise, everything has downsides.
@"Saying Adderall is illegal because people lie about their needs":
And what about the people who are taking it illegally, the group I am actually talking about? Why the hell would you assume I am calling legal users of adderall illegal users? Your logic is astonishingly retarded.
And your posts are astonishingly offensive.
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Players who have ADD diagnosed by a qualified clinician should definitely be allowed to continue using it. Players who have no medical indication shouldn''t. It's that simple.
Not only because it might create an unfair advantage, but also because using Amphetamine derivates can be VERY bad for health if used improperly. Side effects of amphetamine use can be severe and life threatening, which is why their use is not for everyone.
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While Amphetamines like Adderall will probably improve your reaction time and speed they have been found to impair decision making in some people's cases. For a game like SC where you are literally forced to make split second decisions all game long, being jacked up on addy may slow you down rather than speed you up.
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Amphetamines are long-known for their effects and I think every self-respecting person that plays any game competetively and doesn't need (as in "Your doctor prescribed these to you because you have huge issues staying focused on anything in your life at all") Amphetamines shouldn't effin take them.
Of course with purely online tournaments you have no way to check anything, so it's useless debating about that unless some online tournament goes crazy and requires players to send in urine samples. And even that still leaves huge gaps for abuse. It's sad enough that we're discussing this topic.
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What if you have a legitimate prescription?
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This was very under wraps and used in MLG's halo tournament for quite a while, probably still is.
Though it can increase concentration/focus, it is very unreliable. I doubt anyone using the drug could get consistent results with it.
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Perfomance enhancing drugs are used everywherere in our society, from students for school tests to workaholics to artists. Enforced prohibition is a) hypocritic and b) not practical for esports as there aren't even enough resources to enforce something.
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On April 08 2011 08:30 Zaqwert wrote:
This would be a terrible rule.
1. It's almost impossible to enforce.
2. What about things like caffine? Is it banned?
I kinda agree with this. When I want to play an intense gaming session i usually like to suck down a coffee or red bull since it seems to help. Should I not be allowed to do this?
What if I wanna blow a line of coke to get amped for a game? That gonna be banned too?
Also take it from someone who works in a hospital department that conducts drug tests; you can test for amphetamines and adderall will appear as an amphetamine.
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The only people who should be taking these drugs (Adderall, ritalin, etc) are the people who have ADD and ADHD because they actually need it and it doesn't really give them an advantage.
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On April 10 2011 00:48 delHospital wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 07:22 PJA wrote:On April 08 2011 02:53 delHospital wrote:On April 08 2011 02:20 PJA wrote:On April 07 2011 15:51 Zeke50100 wrote:
Caffeine should be banned, too, since it stimulates the body.
Oh, and hand-warmers, comfortable clothes, and personalized equipment all give advantages, too. To hell with all of them.
What's up with biased polls clearly directing people to vote in a certain way? It doesn't get the community's actual thoughts at all. Throw in "performance enhancing" in the title and of course people will say no. Yes, illegal substances with obvious downsides are clearly equivalent to comfortable clothing. WTF is wrong with your head? Oh, it's illegal and it has downsides. Now you've convinced me. Too bad I can't go back in time and change my vote. Energy drink consumption is tolerated, and even encouraged, if a sponsor happens to be an energy drink manufacturer, despite the fact that it (as advertised on Red Bull's website): - Increases performance
- Increases concentration and reaction speed
- Improves vigilance
- Stimulates metabolism
- Makes you feel more energetic and thus improves your overall well-being
And, yeah, WTF is wrong with his head?... [ ] Relevant to what I said. Mind explaining the difference between allowing illicit and licit substances, where both are "performance-enhancing"? Besides, what substance are you talking about? What are the "obvious downsides"? Any significant long-term effects? Because otherwise, everything has downsides. Show nested quote +@"Saying Adderall is illegal because people lie about their needs":
And what about the people who are taking it illegally, the group I am actually talking about? Why the hell would you assume I am calling legal users of adderall illegal users? Your logic is astonishingly retarded. And your posts are astonishingly offensive.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illicit
For example: Taking prescription drugs without a prescription.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/licit
For example: Wearing comfortable clothing.
Obvious downsides: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine#Effects
Not obvious downsides: Being comfortable
EDIT: In response, more directly, to the difference between allowing caffeine versus non-prescribed amphetamines, it's partially a matter of fairness. Assuming that caffeine and non-prescribed amphetamines do actually increase your ability to play well, anyone can take caffeine without a problem. Taking non-prescribed amphetamines is illegal and carries much higher consequences due to that fact alone. Most people don't want to have to break the law just to keep up with someone else who has no qualms about breaking the law.
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EPT
