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Im sure this will be one day fixed.
Dont get me wrong, IMO zergs really are hardest race, but with this... You build pool, extractor, roach warren and hydra den/spire, expand and add extractors - and thats about only 10 actions in whole game that actually requires zerg player to move his camera back to his base.
With new SC2 UI zergs have very limited things to do that can not be done from control groups. Its not like SC1. You just press 4/5 wherever your hatches are and make supply, units, drones whatever, dont build anything except very few limited structures...
So queens are needed - to force zergs to go back to their base. Easier this mechanics will get, more likely they will change them.
No matter how hard can zerg play actually be, if last moment you need to see your base is around 8 min, and from that you can watch your army for rest of the game, something is wrong.
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On March 07 2011 13:11 Chill wrote:
Is larva injecting this difficult that people are modifying hotkeys and coming up with complex systems to do it?
Why would you even say that, Chill? I mean you can say that about pretty much everything - why do we need huge hotkey thread if the hotkeys are already much more easier than in BW?^^
Btw that's nothing complex, just a nice new method which looks more universal than backspace method.
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On March 07 2011 13:11 Chill wrote:
Is larva injecting this difficult that people are modifying hotkeys and coming up with complex systems to do it?
Well, if this method can save you 1 or 2 sec on every larva inject, it is worth it. nothing more, nothing less
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wow this is nice. But hell it will take time to get used to it, if I think back to the time, when I was looking for my way of injecting, it was hell of a work to get used to it.
thx a lot ChefStarcraft and Mr. Bitter.
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Alright so, I've thought about this for a while. From my perspective the main issue with the backspace method was if you were using one queen for 2 Hatcheries next to each other.
Note: My point would be solved if you literally use 1 queen per hatch, then yea it wouldn't be a problem.
Due to the delay of casting "Inject Larva" on a hatchery while injecting the hatch next to that queen which shares both, it would literally make other queens run for it anyways. This is if the hatch is close enough to the queen, other than that you could put it slightly further away to avoid this, but then cast it manually onto that single hatchery.
Either way, that was my main issue with the backspace method, but nice find.
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I haven't read every single post in this thread but wouldn't it be more simple to just hit 4 S to make all queens stop moving? Replace 4 and S with your own setup, obviously.
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once i find an efficient setup for the toggle thing that doesnt block any other race's hotkey (since iam playing random) i think this will be a huge improvement. I used the backspace method before and it was kinda annoying once you got into the lategame or you had some macrohatches you didnt want to get extra queens for.
It feels smooth the only problems i had so far is when i try to put a macro hatch close to another hatch and the queen is out of energy. It is also possible to spamclick too fast if a hatch without a queen is too close to another hatch but not quite on the screen(about the distance XNC nat -> main), so the queens run to the hatch that you can only see for miliseconds on the screen.
but yeah i like the new "J" trick 
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France104 Posts
Just tested it on YABOT, man this is a great find. I wasn't convince with the backspace method because of that possible mess ( and watching Mrbitter convince me it wasn't so good :p ), but now i will definitely give it a try for the next weeks.
Thanks a lot for charring !
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This is awesome.
I was using the base-camera-method and had the same problems with my queens beeing retarded and running all over the map.
Now i can fit my macro routine easily even in the midst of a hard micro battle, as i don't need to waste time with my mouse hand anymore.
Thanks @OP for making the life of zergs easier. Great find.
@People who are for some reason critzising this:
This not cheating. This is not using a macro. I do a button-press for all of my actions and it just happens to be by far the most efficent way to deal with the macro-task that is Larva Spawn. This is a great find and i have no doubt that it will become the standard mechanic for doing it. It's just so much faster than injecting over the minimap or with each queen individually hotkeyed.
The major advantage is: It can be done blind. You don't need see where your hatches or queens are. You only need to center your cursor in the middle of the screen, the rest does your left hand.
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On March 07 2011 17:43 Chaosvuistje wrote:
:D
I'm so going to practice this. The occasional queen stroll was the only reason why I didn't practice the backspace method. This combined with shift-egg selection is going to speed up my zerg play by seconds!
What is this? I am intrigued, and am wondering if there's some trick I don't know about. Do you mean adding the eggs of morphing units into a hotkey group via shift + #, or is this something else?
And to the OP (and Mr Bitters for making the youtube vid) - great job. I'll be trying this one out straight away next time I play SC2! I'm a little concerned the camera looks kind of... "wobbly" when you're cycling through the bases, potentially making it a bit harder to hit the hatches. I'll soon see for myself though
On March 07 2011 13:11 Chill wrote:
Is larva injecting this difficult that people are modifying hotkeys and coming up with complex systems to do it? What was the purpose of this post? I can see no reason why anyone would think this subject is frivolous. Injecting isn't "difficult" by any means, regardless of what technique you use. Even slowly scrolling around the screen with the mouse isn't "difficult". It IS, however, time consuming - and any technique to improve either the speed or reliability of injecting is something that is very welcome indeed.
If you think any mechanics of SC2 aren't difficult enough for your tastes then you should make a seperate thread about it. In THIS thread, however, we want to try to perform as best we can with the mechanics that are in place.
On March 07 2011 13:34 Keitzer wrote:
obviously 1 queen per hatch is hard to get There's no need to be a smartass. In very lategame situations where you have loads of hatcheries you don't necessarily WANT a queen on every hatchery because you won't be able to make use of all the larvae, and so those queens are just using up supply that could be spent elsewhere. Not to mention that queens can be killed by drops, and sometimes new hatcheries won't have queens yet too. Or I might want to pull several queens to aid in a battle, but still have my queens that ARE still at hatcheries inject.....
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Still not 100% there, a few flaws with hatches being close together and queens still running for them if you do it too fast. I was considering adding S to the end of my inject cycle as a method but then realized there is a flaw with that too, if a queen has some how been moved she will never get to the hatch to inject before I press S and therefore waste time too... this is still a tricky situation but I'm glad people continue to work on it.
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On March 07 2011 21:36 aka_star wrote:
Still not 100% there, a few flaws with hatches being close together and queens still running for them if you do it too fast. I was considering adding S to the end of my inject cycle as a method but then realized there is a flaw with that too, if a queen has some how been moved she will never get to the hatch to inject before I press S and therefore waste time too... this is still a tricky situation but I'm glad people continue to work on it.
That is only if you are mindlessly spamming. You can do this effectively fast. While still spamming at reasonable speed. There is no way to 100% solve this problem while spamming mindlessly.
This method allows there to be that perfect percentage, but you need to spam at a reasonable speed, you need to allow a very small delay to let it center to the queen then inject.
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what an excellent find, thanks so much! also props to mr.bitter for summing it up nicely.
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Why did the poster get "User Warned" for posting a comment back to an admin that posted a message that had no merit, and no insight other then an ignorant remark. Am I wrong, or does red imply you can post whatever you want, maybe the warning sign should have went to the admin instead, but who would ever imagine that.
Oh, on a side note, the mech. skills of chill can be presented watching Bo5 chill vs combat-ex : P
went there. This is no bm, just factual representation, check youtube. It's day9 special.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
You can multi-inject with selected queens and ONE BIG FINGER with this hotkey scheme (everything binded to mouse)
![[image loading]](http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3868/69800717.th.jpg)
You can do it with any mouse, that have 2+ sub-buttons under big finger
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On March 07 2011 21:49 Existor wrote:You can multi-inject with selected queens and ONE BIG FINGER with this hotkey scheme (everything binded to mouse) You can do it with any mouse, that have 2+ sub-buttons under big finger
I used to use those buttons a lot but I don't recommend it because it gave me pains, which I've never gotten just using a mouse / kb before. Could've been me, but I think there's something about that button placement that's not conducive to pressing them a lot.
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oh man this is excellent, gonna have to try this!
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On March 07 2011 21:43 ChefStarCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 21:36 aka_star wrote:
Still not 100% there, a few flaws with hatches being close together and queens still running for them if you do it too fast. I was considering adding S to the end of my inject cycle as a method but then realized there is a flaw with that too, if a queen has some how been moved she will never get to the hatch to inject before I press S and therefore waste time too... this is still a tricky situation but I'm glad people continue to work on it. That is only if you are mindlessly spamming. You can do this effectively fast. While still spamming at reasonable speed. There is no way to 100% solve this problem while spamming mindlessly. This method allows there to be that perfect percentage, but you need to spam at a reasonable speed, you need to allow a very small delay to let it center to the queen then inject.
Hmmm, If I can not mindlessly spam then I don't see how it is faster than the alternative which is
1) select queens
2) hold shift +V
3) press backspace
4) visual check, is queen next to hatch?
4 Yes) Click
4 No) repeat step 3
Saving the need for an extra button/toggle press Introduced here, since we still need a visual check to see if we've given it enough time before we can click.
So its agreed its not a 100% full proof method, which is a shame - I was getting my hopes up too much when I logged in this morning and spotted the post. Would be nice to have this inject simplified so we can maximize our army & be like the swarm blizzard intended without stupidly high APM. I'm probably still going to stick with the 6/7/8 Queen method just seems less problematic at this time.
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Interesting find, really. I had so many queens near xel'naga towers during games that I can't tell, then i figured out a way to use stop or hold
On March 07 2011 13:11 Chill wrote:
Is larva injecting this difficult that people are modifying hotkeys and coming up with complex systems to do it?
Comparing to mule-cb or brood war macro mechanics? Yes for the former, no for the latter (in my experiences ofc). I agree with the fact that (even though being more difficult than cb-mule,) it's not as difficult as you said. But, figuring out how to do things (that are already not that difficult) easier and easier improves gameplay. It's like laying mines by selecting vultures one by one or magic-boxing vultures so that they all can lay mines in a single command (there was a technique for that, I sometimes could do, sometimes could not when playing Terran campaign).
I also agree with the fact that using tilde key for the sake of not going to hatcheries without queens or using hold or stop has the same difficulty level for someone who got used to.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3868/69800717.jpg)
