EPT[Poll]Rage, manner switchers and gg gl hf attitude - Page 3
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On January 25 2011 06:49 parn wrote: Cmon ... check this topic we're talking about, we're far from "reinforcing the pressure" and "people wondering why". There's why people find bad behavior interesting in general, and there's why some particular person feels a need to post. I was commenting on the general question.  | ||
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teekesselchen
Germany886 Posts
I'm quite surprised finding a lot of players arguing that saying gg was worthless anyways (for some reason out of all things I followed this discussion on Idras streams chat channel ^^) and it really feels like the number of people writing gg is decreasing. By now there are days where there are less people writing gg than doing so, and it's slowly becoming the same with gl hf (or whatever people write in the beginning, ofc I can unstand that some say "why should I wish him good luck, I hope the skilled one wins). For myself, I definitly had some ragequits earlier, but by now I think that ragequitting is the way worse way of leaving for myself. Writing gg shows a certain attitude of not taking it too seriously, of beeing able to reflect in what way it was my own fault why I lost, knowing that my opponent was not unbeatably good but that I just did some things wrong which I won't do wrong again. It means that especially when my opponent wins in some way I consider weird, cheesy, lucky, whatever, I specifically write gg to show him that he did not piss me off that much just by winning. On the flipside it means that I'm not angry about ragequitters, but rather amused about them not having that pride but openly showing their anger and, to some degree, childishness. Today I had some fun opponents when playing some 3on3 for fun with allies. I wanted to complete that achievement of having 3v3 wins in each race combination, and last one missing was Zerg. So we went Zerg - 2 people off-racing this way - and just decided to open 7- to 8-pool. We ended up having a nice advantage though not winning of the bat and what they did: flaming us all day, taking island expo with 30 turrets+Vikings and stuff. Then even going so far of plugging/unplugging their cables to slowly lag out. Well, what should I say, we had a fun time on teamspeak. After a few minutes of beeing annoyed, it was really fun observing them beeing kids. | ||
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Zhou
United States832 Posts
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therockmanxx
Peru1174 Posts
And everyone is happy in d game No rage at all yay !!! | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
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SweetenemY
Germany136 Posts
Your vote: Calling your opponent a rager is appropriate when: (Vote): He is talking about imbalances or saying cheesing is bad (Vote): He says you played bad (Vote): He pretends you cheated/hacked (Vote): He's calling you a newb and you're really higher ranked than him (Vote): He keeps insulting you and your family till the end of the game and refuses to leave (Vote): He says you won because you were lucky or because he was drunk/sick/... (Vote): He leaves without saying "gg" Calling s.o. a "rager" is an insult and therefore never appropriate. If s.o. really believes he had to insult me/my family i only get a big banana-grin, thinking to myself "what an idiot" and simply fade him out and ignore him. I really like to see that kind of reaction as a vote. | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
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By.Fantasy
Thailand123 Posts
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DarQraven
Netherlands553 Posts
On April 14 2011 23:17 Lysenko wrote: Damn it, did not realize this was a bumped thread. This doesn't need a response. Now there's an attidude I'll never understand. Adding nothing new to a discussion is fine as long as there isn't an "Old post" image underneath it? Assuming you do have something new to add (else why post at all?), why should that not be said just because the post has exceeded an arbitrary age? As long as a discussion can keep going without rehashing things that were already said, it's not a dead discussion. Anyway, what I think the whole manner (can we stop calling it that? Using bad grammar on purpose just to sound Korean seems kind of odd) thing comes down to is two-fold. 1. Differentiation from people that have annoyed them previously. If a player faces a jackass that rubs their loss in their face three times in a row, you can bet money that he's going to be pissed, no matter how hard he pretends to be above it. Because this player has evolved past the point of a primate, he doesn't vent his frustration by harassing the other player. Instead, he channels that negative energy into a sense of superiority over the bad mannered players. The "GLHF" thing at the beginning of the game is simply a badge of honour. In that sense, the OP is right in that it doesn't carry any meaning anymore - it has basically devolved into a disclaimer that says "If you harass me, you are the loser by default". 2. Acceptance. The SC2 community is (or at least used to be) a different kind of player on average from games like Counterstrike or Halo, or even Quake/Unreal to some extent. The game doesn't bring the same kind of emotions into play and as such attracts players with a different kind of attitude. Look at the difference between Halo/CS and SC2 tournaments, both players and spectators, and see for yourself. When was the last time you saw an SC2 player yell at and physically intimidate their teammate for doing something stupid or throw a gaming peripheral across a stage? This is a long-winded way of describing what some on this site like to call the "carebear attitude". Disliking players going with primitive instincts, yelling at others when winning/losing, disliking out-of-game trash talking, etc. The combination of being a lot more reliant on the community to improve at this game than in other games (replays, strategy advice, builds, etc) and that community attaching more value (on average) to being good-natured and well mannered creates a situation where displaying typical signs of those characteristics (glhf, will to improve, less QQ more pewpew, etc) has become a rite of acceptance. You're showing you're one of the group, following group-acceptable behaviour. Simple human psychology. -- I agree with the OP in the sense that my expectations for my opponents play do not change one bit, regardless of his in-game attitude. A "GLHF" can just as well end in a 6pool as a player starting off with a nice insult and some passing comments about my mothers previous evening. Even more ironic is that players trying to start full conversations in-game are the ones that I expect to cheese or play in another lame way the most. It's simply the state of the gaming/internet community nowadays. Though I can't say what the exact cause is, I can point to another phenomenon: trolls. There was a period a while back where being known as a troll was basically the highest known badge of honour in certain communities. Trolls were being looked up to as idols. That shift in attitude is not an isolated incident. The internet is simply more hostile nowadays. edit: All this aside, a GG at the end of a game is a simple and quick way of admitting defeat. Leaving without the slighest acknowledge feels wrong if you've ever engaged in a face-to-face competition of some sort. When you're just not in the mood to type out "You played really well, fine sir. I admit defeat and congratulate you on your victory. May your next endeavours be equally succesful", you throw out a quick GG and start queueing for the next match. A simple "FU" would suffice as well, but most players know better than that. | ||
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dave333
United States915 Posts
Usually near the end of a losing game I usually say "gg" and try asking for their opinion on how to improve, why they beat me, etc. I find this really helpful. Usually at the beginning of the game, if I have something interesting to say I'll say it. Sometimes I vent about a certain matchup if I'm having a hard time, and during a ZvZ be like "ughh terran is just soo annoying" and chat a bit, till the game starts. usually leads to more manner and a better game (or feels like a better one). | ||
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Lysenko
Iceland2128 Posts
On April 14 2011 23:49 DarQraven wrote: Now there's an attidude I'll never understand. Adding nothing new to a discussion is fine as long as there isn't an "Old post" image underneath it? Assuming you do have something new to add (else why post at all?), why should that not be said just because the post has exceeded an arbitrary age? As long as a discussion can keep going without rehashing things that were already said, it's not a dead discussion. I was deleting a post that was specifically addressing the original poster from January, who may not even be following the thread anymore. Also, I don't really believe the discussion has much value, and I didn't want to provoke more responses by posting something of substance. Looks like I failed at avoiding that. | ||
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DarQraven
Netherlands553 Posts
On April 14 2011 23:55 Lysenko wrote: I was deleting a post that was specifically addressing the original poster from January, who may not even be following the thread anymore. Also, I don't really believe the discussion has much value, and I didn't want to provoke more responses by posting something of substance. Looks like I failed at avoiding that. Nothing wrong with some community-wide introspection;) | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
Don't call anybody anything and don't argue in games, you're only wearing off your keyboard for no reason. | ||
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Sensator
Australia377 Posts
On April 14 2011 23:59 Talin wrote: I'll never understand why people try to build an entire science around the concept of rage and BM. Don't call anybody anything and don't argue in games, you're only wearing off your keyboard for no reason. This. | ||
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garbanzo
United States4046 Posts
An exception to the 'no abbreviations' rule is that I try to type "gg" at the end of the game when I lose. No matter what causes me to lose. I used to play FPS games and people usually say "gg" there when the round is over and I would type that to literally mean "good game," analogous to shaking hands after a match in the real world. When I use it in Starcraft, I use it to mean "I surrender" more than "good game". If the game is lost and I have no interest in playing it anymore then I just type "gg" and quickly leave the game (F11, n). With that in mind, what really bothers me a lot is when people respond in a negative way. It happens quite often (hurray selection bias) that I would say "Have fun!" at the beginning of a (team) game and someone inevitably responds with, something along the lines of, "shut the ^&@# up!". The person might have meant this to be playful, but I've gotten playful responses before like "no i refuse!" and they don't bother me. I might actually feel chatty (depends on alcohol consumption) and respond with something like "SC is srs bznz". So I'm not so keen on concluding that it is playful more than it is malevolent. Besides if it's meant to be playful, I would hope that the person would say that they were just kidding and respond with whatever version of "gl hf" they want to use. Anyway, people have "raged" on me before, calling me a bad player and such, but all those just roll off my back. However, it really bothers me when I'm just trying to have fun and people have to be so rude about it. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28553 Posts
at the start of the game you either say gl hf gg, or gl hf, or gg, or gl gg, or hf, or gl, or gg, or gg hf, or a non-abbreviated version of either combination, or nothing. at the end of the game, you say gg, or gg wp if you actually feel like complimenting him. gg doesn't mean "well played", it means "I surrender, you won", nothing more. so before you leave, that's what you say. anything else, especially any negative comments relating to your opponents playstyle, will be perceived as you whining, unless it is something explicitly positive. so just don't go there. follow these extremely simple instructions and you will never have any problems with anyone perceiving you as "bad manner" or a "rager", and if you're unable to follow these very simple instructions, perhaps the actual reason is that you do have a temper problem. | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
I admittedly find it difficult to not write ... + Show Spoiler [explicit] + "Are you fucking kidding me? Did I really just lose 80 supply to a fucking noob-ass a+click Colossus ball and you lost a couple silly Zealots and are still at 200?! Really? Is the timing for Protoss that mindless that you look for that big unit on the screen, count to four, and then a+click the minimap! FUUUUUCK OIYUI!" But I usually write, "lol, gg." This means I'm stunned at how badly I just got rofl'd. Sometimes I write, "sigh, gg." This shows an genuine exasperation at how impossible it feels to win sometimes. Sometimes I write, "gg," or "gg wp." This does not happen often, because at my level it rarely seems even. It is usually a complete stomping one way or the other. I either crush face, or get crushed. It is very rare that it is a truly engaged and equal match. My brother has some of the funniest rage I've ever seen. I've actually cried, several times, with tears of hysteria. He is WAY over the top. | ||
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trNimitz
204 Posts
What's the matter now? Nowdays those letters are considered as a manner attitude, often compared to the hands you shake when you meet and play basketball for example, so if you don't write down those 4 letters right at start, you may be considered as a bad mannered ass hole. My opinion is that, in 2011, the "gl hf" and "gg" attitude is now something "stupid". What do i mean by "stupid"? I mean that those 6 letters have totally lost their meaning. Saying "gl hf" can be justified in lan competitions, but most of the time when you're playing online it just looks like people are acting as robots, unable to say anything more than those letters, making the "contact" between players even more unhuman. So you can be considered as a "manner" player if you only chat with your opponent using "gl hf gg", which looks quite "stupid" to me. So many times when i don't reply "gl hf" and go for something else more "human", he would just call me a bad manner player. But seriously, if you're not "having fun", considering we're playing games, wouldn't it be better to just shut your computer and go for something else? Same for "good luck", if you say so, why call your opponent a rager if later he argues that you're a lucker? Why am i writting this? I'm writting this part because i've noticed that more and more people are thinking quite the same when i get onto that topic, some are just bored of writting "gl hf" on and on, 15 times in a row, looking like a parrot when the other player just do the same. Even if i know that people are going to say "Huh but pros do that, so it's cool, so i do that" and "korean commentators shout GG at the end of every game and koreans are the best, so it's cool, so i do that", i wanted to get a global feeling on this point, so last poll: So true. I've completely stopped saying glhf at the start of a game on ladder, I only say hf in tournaments. gg is reserved for games that truly deserve it (or in tournaments), and not every single random one. I have to laugh so hard every time someone messages me at the end of a game saying 'gg'. It's lost all meaning with the current way its being used. | ||
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Neino
Norway295 Posts
Today i met this terran opponent twice in a row. The first game was on tal'darim where we both went for a fast expo, but i got a much earlier third, basically outmacroed him and just attackmoved in with a timing. He just says something along the lines of "i'm losing to a noob" or something. Which i'm fine with, i won, i didn't cheese or anything, i played the most straight up game there is, so i have no "insecurity" about the win, so it doesn't matter. Now, the next game, i say glhf, he's silent. Then he does a push with like 2 maras a couple of marines and some scvs, i defend it but lose a tiny tad myself. I expand while i get 1 immortal as a power unit for my push, and the rest with gateway units, presure while expanding, right? Well, when i push him he obviously doesn't have a lot of units because his macro, as proven last game, is not the best. However, when i demolish his base he starts whining about going all-in, and how i can't do anything but winning with all-in pushes. One of the raxes at the start of the game was proxy. He's proxy raxing me and whining about me all-inning(I wouldn't consider it an all-in for the reccord), and he wont bloody stop. He's not leaving the game, just keeps going on about how lame i am and blah blah.. Do other people think it's ok to act like that? Oh, and is 1immortal + 3 gateways worth of units an all-in after defending early presure and expanding at the same time? | ||
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