EPTThe interview is fun to read, she's not bad to look at, she plays sc2 and people want to read it. That's it. Either enjoy the interview or ignore it.
[Interview] Linda "Pikachu" Liao - Page 9
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AntiGrav1ty
Germany2310 Posts
The interview is fun to read, she's not bad to look at, she plays sc2 and people want to read it. That's it. Either enjoy the interview or ignore it. | ||
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nybbas
United States71 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:00 robertdinh wrote: Terrible analogy, basketball is a physical sport. Yeah, and the female and male brain are identical, right? Is there any research that shows a female should be able to perform exactly as a male? Maybe they are better at the decision making, but they cant keep their handspeed up as fast as males, maybe its opposite, fuck maybe they are identical. Bitching about the chicks getting their own tourney, and getting press is nothing but pure nerdrage from a bunch of insecure morons. Also, good job ignoring absolutely everything else in the post. | ||
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robertdinh
803 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:04 nybbas wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 10 2010 16:00 robertdinh wrote: Terrible analogy, basketball is a physical sport. Like I said, because the female and male brain work identically. Is there any research that shows a female should be able to perform exactly as a male? Maybe they are better at the decision making, but they cant keep their handspeed up as fast as males, maybe its opposite, fuck maybe they are identical. Bitching about the chicks getting their own tourney, and getting press is nothing but pure nerdrage from a bunch of insecure morons. Also, good job ignoring absolutely everything else in the post. Ok so where is your research to show that females and males should be segregated... what specifically about how the male and female brains operate indicates to you that it should be so? | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
On November 10 2010 15:54 University wrote: Wait... isn't it kind of offensive that there is a female only SC2 cup? I'm not really sure so don't think I'm just like blowing the politically correct horn here. I have always just accepted it but it just occurred to me that we view SC2 and SC:BW as games of skill and intellect, not necessarily of physical ability... so doesn't separating men and women imply that they have a lesser skill/intellect than men? It's sort of like if we were to separate women from men in math bowl. Or during a chess tournament. I know that there is a big discussion about whether or not chess tournaments should be segregated (equality VS encouraging women to play) so we should probably address that in our favorite game as well. As I said I'm just kind of throwing that out there for discussion. I think it's kind of important to discuss instead of "lolol she's hot".. "oh no ppl only likes her cuz she's hawt" EDIT: Yeah as I'm reading more of the previous posts.... everyone seems to be concerned with whether it is sexist or not to exaggerate someone's accomplishments according to their gender. That's an issue, sure, but the bigger one is why we are separating their tournaments from ours when all SC2 takes is a sharp intellect and practiced skill, two things that women can acquire just as sure as men can. Not everyone has the same skillset. Imagine if they didn't have little league because "kids just need to learn to play better baseball". Strategy games lend themselves to those that are more focused on visual tasks which happens to be mostly males. There are other games in which females are just as good as male competitors however these games rarely appeal to girls. My wife plays world of warcraft and loves it and she is just as good as any other healer out there, in fact, personally i've only ever been outhealed 3 times on a consistant basis, 2 of them were females. The idea of separating people based on their traits is not a bad thing. In baseball there is the mlb of course, but there is little league, high school, softball, senior softball, fastpitch, etc etc. Why have more than 1 league? Because sport is meant to be enjoyed by everyone. In chess tournaments they usually have 2-3 brackets. 1400 and under, 1400-1900, and 1900+ are typical groups. No grandmaster would ever say that having lower level groups is stupid. All people want to feel a sense of accomplishment. Adapting to people's abilities and traits is an adequate way of not only promoting the game to a wider audience, but giving an opportunity for those who wouldn't normally feel like they have accomplished anything. (IE, winning a city wide little league, or winning a high school volleyball league). Some games do not need to be seperate (Take poker for instance), while others need to (like soccer). Starcraft needs more leagues to encourage more players. (Personally i would love to see under 18 tournaments, or 35+ tournaments, female tournaments, west coast, etc.etc.) | ||
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nybbas
United States71 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:05 robertdinh wrote: Ok so where is your research to show that females and males should be segregated... what specifically about how the male and female brains operate indicates to you that it should be so? The fact that they operate differently at all would be enough of a reason to allow them to compete in their own tournaments. But it isn't even all mental, physical hand speed is also a requirement. Nice try though. | ||
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robertdinh
803 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:09 nybbas wrote: The fact that they operate differently at all would be enough of a reason to allow them to compete in their own tournaments. But it isn't even all mental, physical hand speed is also a requirement. Nice try though. Sorry this argument holds no weight, even males have brains that operate differently from one another in certain ways. Should left handed and right handed people also have separate leagues? | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
So was TSL because they did not allow Korean progamers. See how stupid your arguments are? First of all, i am pretty sure there are differences between female and male brain. Whether it hinders or aids them in playing Starcraft, I dont know. But feel free to post your research paper showing that they are equal and they judge everything in the same way. Keep in mind that for the longest time, they separate female chess from male chess. Secondly, as Nazgul pointed out, this is about building a community. If these females want to play against other females then what's wrong. Just like the Nordics want to have their own Inhouse Cup. | ||
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University
United States263 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:01 nybbas wrote: because we all know the female and male brains work identically right? If anything its a vehicle that allows girls who are interested in SC2 to be able to relate and see other girls playing the game. The problem here is you have a game thats dominated by 99% males, by those statistics alone, the chances of seeing a girl in the top tiers is incredibly low. Letting them have their own tournament is not only good for SC2 as an esport as a whole (how the fuck could it be damaging anyways?) I am sure it's something the girls appreciate. Do you realize you just used the phrase "letting them have their own tournament"? | ||
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robertdinh
803 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:13 dtz wrote: Viking cup is racist / biased because the brain of nordic people and everyone else is the same so according to robertdinh, they must allow everyone to play. So was TSL because they did not allow Korean progamers. See how stupid your arguments are? First of all, i am pretty sure there are differences between female and male brain. Whether it hinders or aids them in playing Starcraft, I dont know. But feel free to post your research paper showing that they are equal and they judge everything in the same way. Keep in mind that for the longest time, they separate female chess from male chess. Secondly, as Nazgul pointed out, this is about building a community. If these females want to play against other females then what's wrong. Just like the Nordics want to have their own Inhouse Cup. I never said the brain functions the same way, but it is simply far to complex to only divide it based on gender. Please don't take things out of context or misrepresent someone's point of view. Anyway this is a discussion best suited for a different thread I guess, grats to linda on her tournament victory... I'd like to see esports get to a point where we just have males and females competing together at top tournaments though and that's all i'll say. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
I think the issue of few or no good female players is a sheer numbers one. Think about how Korea has more super hard training skilled players so they produce more top players than NA/EU. Now imagine the difference between number of males and females playing to be orders of magnitude bigger. No wonder there are so few female players even making it to diamond, there just aren't that many so the likelihood of a super skilled player rising up is low. If as many females played SC2 as males, the number of top players that would be female would probably be close to half instead of the current none or one. Since almost no girls play, it's impossible to know if there are some girls out there that would be amazing 500APM diamond 2500 players since they'll never try to achieve that level of skill. | ||
lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
And it's not like a bunch of guys decided to round up some girls and have they play SC2 for their amusement. A group of girls wanted to have a tournament, and they had a tournament. For fun. FOR FUN. Sheesh guys, so much ado about nothing. | ||
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Elprede
74 Posts
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Avaclon
United States80 Posts
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University
United States263 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:13 dtz wrote: Viking cup is racist / biased because the brain of nordic people and everyone else is the same so according to robertdinh, they must allow everyone to play. So was TSL because they did not allow Korean progamers. See how stupid your arguments are? First of all, i am pretty sure there are differences between female and male brain. Whether it hinders or aids them in playing Starcraft, I dont know. But feel free to post your research paper showing that they are equal and they judge everything in the same way. Keep in mind that for the longest time, they separate female chess from male chess. Secondly, as Nazgul pointed out, this is about building a community. If these females want to play against other females then what's wrong. Just like the Nordics want to have their own Inhouse Cup. I'm sorry but your whole Nordic example doesn't at all apply. A cup based on nationality is pretty well accepted. Most countries in the world have semi-national and national leagues. I wasn't saying that it is overtly sexist. I'm just saying it is something we should consider. Can you not at least admit that? Meet me halfway here man. We separate men and women from each other in competition because of physical differences. We don't exclude women from universities where people compete intellectually, nor do we exclude them from intellectual competitions e.g. Math bowl, spell bowl, trivia contests... you know, things that have no physical component. Doing so would be absurd. So it is really quite fair to make the comparison here, and ask why we feel the need to separate women from men in SC2. I understand there are societal gender differences at work, and women play videogames a lot less than men do, but at a competitive level this shouldn't matter. EDIT: I want to edit with respect to something lichter said about segregation VS separation. I understand that we aren't necessarily segregating these tournaments forcibly, but there is still a defined gender line in these SC2 cups for only women... so we have to ask why people felt the need to institute them. Again, I'm not even sure I totally agree with my side of this argument. Just throwing it out there. | ||
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nybbas
United States71 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:10 robertdinh wrote: Sorry this argument holds no weight, even males have brains that operate differently from one another in certain ways. Should left handed and right handed people also have separate leagues? except research has been done that shows females are better at some mental tasks, while males are better at others. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
I'll make her do the next female tournament ^^ | ||
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University
United States263 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:17 lichter wrote: Wow guys. There is a big difference between "segregation" in tournaments and having a tournament based on specific qualifications. No one is stopping girls from entering other big tournaments like GSL, MLG, etc. No one is saying that girls can only compete in girls-only competitions. No one is saying this is the only competition girls can do well in. This tourney is just a tournament for girls against girls, just as there are tournaments for Bronze players only, Asian players only, left handed players only, players dressed in Halloween costumes only... And it's not like a bunch of guys decided to round up some girls and have they play SC2 for their amusement. A group of girls wanted to have a tournament, and they had a tournament. For fun. FOR FUN. Sheesh guys, so much ado about nothing. That's a really good point, and I had to check my posts to make sure I only used "segregate" with reference to chess (which I did), but it's still a helpful difference that needed to be pointed out in the discussion so thanks for that. Yes, there is no segregation obviously. No one is barring them from entering the GSL, but it still seems a little pandering to have a womens only tournament in my opinion. Yes I agree it might help women enjoy the sport more, so maybe this is better for the community than any (potential) harm that comes from tournaments like this. | ||
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alphafuzard
United States1610 Posts
stop playing devil's advocates for 2 seconds and realize that this is only good for the community at large | ||
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robertdinh
803 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:27 University wrote: That's a really good point, and I had to check my posts to make sure I only used "segregate" with reference to chess (which I did), but it's still a helpful difference that needed to be pointed out in the discussion so thanks for that. Yes, there is no segregation obviously. No one is barring them from entering the GSL, but it still seems a little pandering to have a womens only tournament in my opinion. Yes I agree it might help women enjoy the sport more, so maybe this is better for the community than any (potential) harm that comes from tournaments like this. One last point just to clarify on what lichter said... Segregation works both ways, while GSL does not segregate males from females, an all female tournament does, and it just further perpetuates the male =! female concept. | ||
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lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
And people will point out that it's not the same to differentiate between gender and skill level... but isn't that in itself sexist? I find it equally sexist that people are making such a big deal out of this just because of gender. So what? We are all playing the same game, playing for fun (well, ok most of us are). Anyone, of any minority or specific qualifications, should be allowed to have their own tournament without all this socio-political nonsense and overreaction. | ||
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