EPT[Interview] Linda "Pikachu" Liao - Page 10
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
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nybbas
United States71 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:20 University wrote: I'm sorry but your whole Nordic example doesn't at all apply. A cup based on nationality is pretty well accepted. Most countries in the world have semi-national and national leagues. I wasn't saying that it is overtly sexist. I'm just saying it is something we should consider. Can you not at least admit that? Meet me halfway here man. We separate men and women from each other in competition because of physical differences. We don't exclude women from universities where people compete intellectually, nor do we exclude them from intellectual competitions e.g. Math bowl, spell bowl, trivia contests... you know, things that have no physical component. Doing so would be absurd. So it is really quite fair to make the comparison here, and ask why we feel the need to separate women from men in SC2. I understand there are societal gender differences at work, and women play videogames a lot less than men do, but at a competitive level this shouldn't matter. why we need to separate them? that's not the point. Why it's ok to give them their own media coverage, and why its a good thing that they can have their own competitions... that's the argument... let me try to spell this out for you as clearly and simply as possible, since it seems you are having difficulty... It's good for the SC2 esport in general - such a low number of females play, that giving them their own media coverage may help to spur other females to start playing themselves, otherwise all they see is a male dominated sport in which they have no urge to take part in themselves. THIS IS THE REASON IT DOES MATTER AT THE COMPETITIVE LEVEL. The chances of seeing girls at the same level of men is only going to increase if media coverage is given to them. The amount of males to females is HUGELY disproportionate - with such a larger player base, its only natural the best of the best males are playing the game, and dominating. meanwhile the chances of a female coming out of the woodwork who is able to compete with them is insanely slim. Without giving some special media coverage to the female side, we would pretty much otherwise hear nothing about them... all for the sake of not being sexist or some bullshit... (more for the sake of keeping sc2 a boys club) Starcraft is not a purely mental sport, there are physical aspects to it, comparing it to math bowls is ridiculous. The kinds of decision making, tactics, reaction times... I'm not saying girls are naturally worse, or who knows maybe naturally better, but to say that there is no reason to be allowed to play in their own leagues makes no sense... | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
isn't the aim of both tournaments the same? which is to build a community yet, there seems to be reservations towards gender based and not nationality. Just because " oh it has been that way all along" isn't a valid argument. | ||
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alphafuzard
United States1610 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:30 robertdinh wrote: One last point just to clarify on what lichter said... Segregation works both ways, while GSL does not segregate males from females, an all female tournament does, and it just further perpetuates the male =! female concept. Please stop. I know you think you're being a big defender of women everywhere, but its lunacy to think that all-girl tournaments are in any way bringing the rest of the female community down. Everyone understands your reasoning, but it holds no practical purpose. Stopping all-girl tournaments from happening would accomplish what exactly? Why not encourage greater diversity especially in a field heavily criticized for its lack thereof. 'Grats to Pikachu | ||
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University
United States263 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:35 nybbas wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 10 2010 16:20 University wrote: I'm sorry but your whole Nordic example doesn't at all apply. A cup based on nationality is pretty well accepted. Most countries in the world have semi-national and national leagues. I wasn't saying that it is overtly sexist. I'm just saying it is something we should consider. Can you not at least admit that? Meet me halfway here man. We separate men and women from each other in competition because of physical differences. We don't exclude women from universities where people compete intellectually, nor do we exclude them from intellectual competitions e.g. Math bowl, spell bowl, trivia contests... you know, things that have no physical component. Doing so would be absurd. So it is really quite fair to make the comparison here, and ask why we feel the need to separate women from men in SC2. I understand there are societal gender differences at work, and women play videogames a lot less than men do, but at a competitive level this shouldn't matter. why we need to separate them? that's not the point. Why it's ok to give them their own media coverage, and why its a good thing that they can have their own competitions... that's the argument... let me try to spell this out for you as clearly and simply as possible, since it seems you are having difficulty... It's good for the SC2 esport in general - such a low number of females play, that giving them their own media coverage may help to spur other females to start playing themselves, otherwise all they see is a male dominated sport in which they have no urge to take part in themselves. THIS IS THE REASON IT DOES MATTER AT THE COMPETITIVE LEVEL. The chances of seeing girls at the same level of men is only going to increase if media coverage is given to them. The amount of males to females is HUGELY disproportionate - with such a larger player base, its only natural the best of the best males are playing the game, and dominating. meanwhile the chances of a female coming out of the woodwork who is able to compete with them is insanely slim. Without giving some special media coverage to the female side, we would pretty much otherwise hear nothing about them... all for the sake of not being sexist or some bullshit... (more for the sake of keeping sc2 a boys club) Starcraft is not a purely mental sport, there are physical aspects to it, comparing it to math bowls is ridiculous. The kinds of decision making, tactics, reaction times... I'm not saying girls are naturally worse, or who knows maybe naturally better, but to say that there is no reason to be allowed to play in their own leagues makes no sense... Physical aspects? Like "tactics" and "decision making"? | ||
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nybbas
United States71 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:36 dtz wrote: why do you accept the concept of a cup based on nationality but not of gender? isn't the aim of both tournaments the same? which is to build a community yet, there seems to be reservations towards gender based and not nationality. Just because " oh it has been that way all along" isn't a valid argument. nah robert just believes its better for the girl gaming scene if they get completely fucking crushed in normal tournaments, rather then letting them *gasp* have a female only tourny. On November 10 2010 16:38 University wrote: Physical aspects? Like "tactics" and "decision making"? thanks for picking out one line of my post to critique. I didn't mean to link that to physical aspects, I should have realized someone as dense as you wouldn't have been able to connect physical aspects to what you are doing with your hands while playing sc2.... Sorry for the bad writing. | ||
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netherDrake
Singapore1831 Posts
Great that we have some notable people playing SC2. | ||
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megagoten
318 Posts
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lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:30 robertdinh wrote: One last point just to clarify on what lichter said... Segregation works both ways, while GSL does not segregate males from females, an all female tournament does, and it just further perpetuates the male =! female concept. Yes I can understand that point, but again... why is it such a bad thing to have a niche tournament? It doesn't matter how that niche is identified--race, nationality, gender, sc2 race, shoe size... If they want to have a tournament for themselves, how can that be a bad thing (unless they go about it poorly, ie. flaming those they are excluding)? | ||
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University
United States263 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:37 alphafuzard wrote: Please stop. I know you think you're being a big defender of women everywhere, but its lunacy to think that all-girl tournaments are in any way bringing the rest of the female community down. Everyone understands your reasoning, but it holds no practical purpose. Stopping all-girl tournaments from happening would accomplish what exactly? Why not encourage greater diversity especially in a field heavily criticized for its lack thereof. 'Grats to Pikachu There's no reason to mock him man... but I sort of agree with your point in that stopping female tournaments would probably have an overall negative effect on the community. I'm sure it supports those girl gamers out there who are playing hard so that's a good thing. And I also realized that I never said grats to Pikachu and that was sort of a bad move on my part... so congratulations Pikachu  | ||
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alphafuzard
United States1610 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:42 University wrote: There's no reason to mock him man... but I sort of agree with your point in that stopping female tournaments would probably have an overall negative effect on the community. I'm sure it supports those girl gamers out there who are playing hard so that's a good thing. And I also realized that I never said grats to Pikachu and that was sort of a bad move on my part... so congratulations Pikachu Really no mocking intended. If anyone feels girl-gamer tournaments should not exist, make a thread about it! Just don't shit in this one. | ||
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pinke
United States56 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Have you noticed that anyone who is bashing on pikachu is a male? If you don't want to hear about a girl until she places in GSL, then go pay attention to GSL and when a female places, you'll know about her. Why does it bother you that there are female tournaments? You have no idea what it's like to be a female in a male dominated area, whether it's gaming, academics, a career, or even society in general. I really hope there will be a day when female tournaments become moot and we can all compete on equal ground, but that day's not today. Female tournaments let girls know we're not alone and we should keep on keeping on. It's very intimidating to enter the world of gaming when it's considered something "for boys," so if you're into it, you must be a tom boy, or not girly. It's very encouraging to see someone like Linda who is very good at the game but clearly still in touch with her feminine side. I for one, really enjoy the whimsical nature of the interview. I can relate to that. It's fun. Video games should be fun. For some reason, guys are convinced that any girl into gaming is just there for the attention. I really enjoy SC. I like playing, I like watching, I like going to tournaments, but it's not fun to feel like an alien in these places, and it's really upsetting when everyone just assumes you're there for attention, or tries to discredit you just because you're attractive. Linda Liao is a good player, she's not just getting attention because she's hot. If she were ugly, instead of all of the "omg she's hot" comments, it would be "wow, she's so ugly" and instead of saying she's receiving attention for being attractive, you'd say she was only good at SC because she's ugly so she sits at home and practices all day. Do you know there have actually been studies saying attractive people are less confident? Human beings are naturally self conscious of their looks, whether they're considered attractive by others or not and everyone has experienced the phenomenon of a beautiful girl thinking she's fat or ugly. So, someone considered unattractive, is self conscious of their looks as well as their general competence but lets say they do really well on a project, their peers or superiors inform them of such and they believe it. They think they worked really hard, and it showed. Someone considered attractive, though, is still concerned about their looks but now receives positive feedback on a project, but instead of thinking, I worked hard, they think those people are only complimenting the attractive person because they are attracted to him or her. Either way, if you don't like it, go away! go Pikachu! Linda fighting, yay! | ||
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nybbas
United States71 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:42 University wrote: There's no reason to mock him man... but I sort of agree with your point in that stopping female tournaments would probably have an overall negative effect on the community. I'm sure it supports those girl gamers out there who are playing hard so that's a good thing. And I also realized that I never said grats to Pikachu and that was sort of a bad move on my part... so congratulations Pikachu There is every reason to mock him, what he is saying is completely ridiculous. Maybe he is playing devils advocate like someone said... or maybe he is just brain damaged. According to him, giving recognition to one of the best female sc2 players, and her winning a female sc2 comp is bad for women.... | ||
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University
United States263 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:38 nybbas wrote: nah robert just believes its better for the girl gaming scene if they get completely fucking crushed in normal tournaments, rather then letting them *gasp* have a female only tourny. thanks for picking out one line of my post to critique. I didn't mean to link that to physical aspects, I should have realized someone as dense as you wouldn't have been able to connect physical aspects to what you are doing with your hands while playing sc2.... Sorry for the bad writing. Apology accepted. Have a good night. EDIT: Also thanks for the interview! I sort of forgot it was translated because she said she lived in Canada for so long but I just now re-read her answers. | ||
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zoLo
United States5896 Posts
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hazelynut
United States2195 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:44 pinke wrote: I realized I wrote a bit of an essay so I put it in a spoiler to save some grief, but if you want to see my female opinion on the Linda/female gaming hate, do read. + Show Spoiler + Have you noticed that anyone who is bashing on pikachu is a male? If you don't want to hear about a girl until she places in GSL, then go pay attention to GSL and when a female places, you'll know about her. Why does it bother you that there are female tournaments? You have no idea what it's like to be a female in a male dominated area, whether it's gaming, academics, a career, or even society in general. I really hope there will be a day when female tournaments become moot and we can all compete on equal ground, but that day's not today. Female tournaments let girls know we're not alone and we should keep on keeping on. It's very intimidating to enter the world of gaming when it's considered something "for boys," so if you're into it, you must be a tom boy, or not girly. It's very encouraging to see someone like Linda who is very good at the game but clearly still in touch with her feminine side. I for one, really enjoy the whimsical nature of the interview. I can relate to that. It's fun. Video games should be fun. For some reason, guys are convinced that any girl into gaming is just there for the attention. I really enjoy SC. I like playing, I like watching, I like going to tournaments, but it's not fun to feel like an alien in these places, and it's really upsetting when everyone just assumes you're there for attention, or tries to discredit you just because you're attractive. Linda Liao is a good player, she's not just getting attention because she's hot. If she were ugly, instead of all of the "omg she's hot" comments, it would be "wow, she's so ugly" and instead of saying she's receiving attention for being attractive, you'd say she was only good at SC because she's ugly so she sits at home and practices all day. Do you know there have actually been studies saying attractive people are less confident? Human beings are naturally self conscious of their looks, whether they're considered attractive by others or not and everyone has experienced the phenomenon of a beautiful girl thinking she's fat or ugly. So, someone considered unattractive, is self conscious of their looks as well as their general competence but lets say they do really well on a project, their peers or superiors inform them of such and they believe it. They think they worked really hard, and it showed. Someone considered attractive, though, is still concerned about their looks but now receives positive feedback on a project, but instead of thinking, I worked hard, they think those people are only complimenting the attractive person because they are attracted to him or her. Either way, if you don't like it, go away! go Pikachu! Linda fighting, yay! Agree 100%. Personally I think these threads are super awkward because the majority of the internet (who also coincidentally are male) end up internet white-knighting or talking about females as if they were some sort of scientific anomaly... >_>. | ||
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BanelingMalt
Taiwan42 Posts
On November 10 2010 07:24 Neosta2 wrote: Maybe TLO meant that when he plays pokemon - he can't ever beat Pikachu This is an error, the original says "she" | ||
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pinke
United States56 Posts
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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
If only hyungjoon would become pro instead of honorary pro... | ||
Falling
Canada11261 Posts
On November 10 2010 16:54 pinke wrote: I think it's quite sad that every thread that pertains to women in gaming ends up as one of these arguments! I agree- I find it frustrating that these threads end up telling girls how they should or should not be playing. Why the hell we feel the need to tell women how they are being sexist against themselves, I don't know. Thanks for the mini essay you wrote. | ||
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