Taiwanese star Linda Liao recently won first place as champion for ESL SC2 Female Cup. She recently accepted an interview from Blizzard Entertainment Taiwan:
* She's currently diamond rank #1 in her diamond division, not sure about sc2rank... ** Updated from proper English translation release by official Blizzard Entertainment Taiwan
Q: A lot of StarCraft fans from around the world are very curious about you, please give us a short introduction of yourself!
A: I was born in Taiwan and went to school in Canada. Really enjoyed performing arts so I took a lot of time going through vocal training and dance practices. I had planned to engage into the entertainment business as soon as I graduated from University so I utilized any time I had during my winter/summer vacations to audition in Taiwan. Being the only girl in the family besides my mom (2 brothers), I didn’t spend much time with Barbie dolls, I was more intrigued by Legos, robots, dinosaurs and 4wd etc. Toured many continents around the world as a choirgirl growing up. Played on the school’s team throughout my junior and senior high school years for both volleyball and basketball. Gaming wise, I play all sorts of games RTS RPG, and love my portable gaming gear as well because I travel a lot.
Q: What kind of experiences do you have with the original StarCraft?
A: I got into StarCraft just before college. I took some computer science classes as an elective, and as you know, nerds love gaming :D I would force myself to finish off my assignments early, memorize my dance choreographies ASAP just to buy more gaming hours. One of the craziest things that I did was probably being too addicted to the game to a point where I would simply sleep in my chair and would not part from my computer except for washroom breaks.
Q: Did you also use Protoss in the original StarCraft?
A: Yeah, I was a toss player in SC1 so toss was a natural choice in SC2 when I got the game. All races are so unique and it’s quite time-consuming to really get to know one race and exploit it well.
Q: What is it about StarCraft that attracts you?
A: Real Time Strategy games like Starcraft are really exciting. It not only requires technical skills, at the same time it also drains a lot of your brain juice. I really enjoyed watching other people’s RPs and developing my own strategies at the same time. It’s motivating to always game with a new build order or experiment with newly patched settings to come up with even more possibilities. Mainly I just enjoy playing the game and I also enjoy the fact that sometimes a smart move can make a twisting comeback, always fight till the last minute.
Q: What unit do you miss the most from the original StarCraft?
A: I kinda miss Reavers. They used to be one of my favorite units. For those SC1 players, reaver drops must sound familiar. I’d try to do clever drops to really damage the opponent’s economy and non-stop harass after that. It’s fun watching the reavers moving so slow yet do such incredible damage.
Q: Why did you decide to pick the ID “Pikachu”?
A: I gamed as Pikachu for SC1, so I just went along with this name for SC2, can’t recall why I chose it in the first place.
Q: If you were a StarCraft II unit, which one would it be?
A: I think I probably relate myself as a sentry summoned hallucinated colossi, can look intimidating at times but really no harm
Q: Zerg: Gross or cute?
A: I love zergs! Especially when I see a bunch of banelings rolling around, so cute!
Q: Which matchup (PvP, PvT, PvZ) are you the most comfortable with and which one do you think you need to improve the most?
A: I don’t really have a most confident matchup since all races are quite powerful and it really depends on your opponent’s units and strategies then come up with a countering strategy in each battle. Strategies can be really different depending on the maps as well. Maps with smaller and narrower ramps are easier to defend but then at the same time hard to penetrate through. I would have to say perhaps PvP are the battles that I find more intimidating simply because I know protoss the best and know more possibilities, the more you know the more complicated it gets.
Q: Does you especially dislike a certain race (Terran or Zerg) or is there are certain unit that you really enjoy destroying?
A: I love all the races, seeing ‘gg’s on my screen makes my day
Q: What is your favorite Protoss unit quote?
A: “Khassar'Detemplari”! (High Templar)
Q: Who do you usually play with?
A: Family, friends and the players who are battling it out on BattleNet every day.
Q: What is your favorite strategy or unit combination to use?
A: I like mixing units as a basic build, and do adjustments based on scouting information. Compositions of funny walking immortals, sentries, zealots and stalkers etc. If the game drags on, I’d get some high tech units, like high templars, colossus, void rays etc but of course it really depends on what your opponent is doing. Of course at times, a few dark templars can do the trick XD.
Q: From the time you released your first replay, you improved at an incredible pace, reaching 1v1 diamond level in only a couple months time, can you share with us how you trained?
A: The first RPs casted the infant Pikachu, now Pikachu has grown up, lol. Women can’t resist Diamonds, I wasn’t paying much attention on gaming skills, getting these glittering diamonds to my profile page was the primary goal XD.
Q: What do you think about the current balance situation of StarCraft II? Do you think there are any units that should be buffed or nerfed?
A: Being able to warp in colossii sounds like a good idea
Q: What advice can you give to new players who find it difficult to get the hang of StarCraft II?
A: Offense is the best defense!
Q: How do you balance gaming, work, and life in general?
A: There is no balance. I do not sleep.
Q: How do you think StarCraft II could be improved as it is right now?
A: Nothing really. This is already the best game ever.
Q: Do you also play the single player campaign?
A: Not really familiar with the story mode, I just started gaming on the ladder right away.
Q: Many male players after seeing you play so well think, “Wow, if only my girlfriend could play StarCraft II with me…”. Do you have any advice for recommending StarCraft II to girls?
A: 9BE, 12BG…with extra strength whitening effect! ; ) (Note: In Taiwan and most countries in Asia a lighter or “whiter” skin tone is considered to be desirable as opposed to being “tanned”, therefore if you stay in playing StarCraft you will be paler.)
Q: What was your reaction when you heard about the ESL SCII Goes Female Cup? Did you hesitate or want to sign-up right away?
A: I was thinking about entering a tournament before I knew about this cup. So when the news hit me, I just signed up for it.
Q: What was going through your mind before the first match of the tournament? Were you nervous?
A: 1st games are always a bit nerve racking, thought about applying different strategies before the tournament. Competing in tournaments is very different from doing ladder games, especially when the game setting is BO1 with all the games except the finals. I gamed a few before the tournament in order to adjust to a more suitable build that can defend off of the early pushes or unorthodox strategies. I had a lot of possibilities in my head but then when countdown finished, as my probes started to mine, I just immediately switched to game mode. To be honest, I was more nervous watching my own RP after the tournament.
Q: In the second game of the finals match your opponent (Czeck player DJena) snuck a probe into the back of your base and built a proxy pylon to warp in Zealots. What did you think when you saw it, and looking back aside from discovering it sooner is there anything else you think you could have done to stop it?
A: I was too careless that game, didn’t even scout my base parameters especially on this map. I would usually build my 3rd or 4th pylon by the backdoor on Blistering sands to eliminate any surprise attacks. Yeah, I was just too sloppy that game.
Q: In the last game of the finals match you used a well placed force field to trap your opponent’s forces on the ramp, taking many of them out. When your army was marching across the map for the counter-attack did you feel that the game was yours? How did it feel to see that “gg” and know that you had won the championship?
A: I was the one who chose the 3rd map, wanted a smaller map because I assumed my opponent would push early in the game. The ramp at home is quite small and narrow so sentries can be put into effective use. Having cut her forces and outnumbered advantage, I just countered right away without thinking. I was actually still warping units after the opponent had said “gg”, winning the tournament didn’t really hit me till after I got out of the game and started reading congratulations messages in the chat room. Looking at the final tournament tree was when I got quite emotional and realized that I had won.
Q: During the ESL tournament did you have any chance to interact with the other players? Is there one of your opponents that made an impression on you?
A: I met this player Laejten in the final 8 match, she told me that she’s a friend of TLO's and that TLO had told her Pikachu is probably the only player she can’t beat in this tournament. Wow, that was kinda cool.
Q: For the ESL SCII Goes Female tournament you had to play from about 2am to 5am, how did you keep your focus and not get sleepy?
A: I had a lot of coffee before the tournament to stay awake, but once in game mode my energy level just shot through the roof!
Q: After the tournament ended on Monday morning you posted the good news on your Facebook page and created quite a stir, even pro players like Canadian Huk and fellow Taiwanese Sen personally congratulated you, how did it feel to receive some much support and blessings?
A: I was very touched to see everyone’s congratutions! I am nowhere near Huk and Sen level! I’m gonna just continue to work hard on this game!
Q: The Taiwanese community has given you the title of “Protoss Queen” (With SEn being Taiwan’s Zerg King), what do you think of the name? Does it give you any pressure?
A: Actually I was thinking about giving Terran a try, hmm… :D
Q: Is there anything you’d like to say to the global StarCraft community?
A: Thank you everyone for your support, and once again: Offense is the best defense!
Ehhh...I kinda feel like...who cares? There are much better players than her and it's silly to get worked up over a girl just because she plays Starcraft. Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable and I see no immediate reason why I would prefer her over someone more outgoing and accomplished.
On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote: Ehhh...I kinda feel like...who cares? There are much better players than her and it's silly to get worked up over a girl just because she plays Starcraft. Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable and I see no immediate reason why I would prefer her over someone more outgoing and accomplished.
Are you talking about her playing skills or dating her? Sounds like your sizing her up like a potential mate.
This shit is good for E-Sports, stop being so damn negative.
Haha the pikarine is cute :D Wished Jason Lee would have asked her how does she deals whith a protoss who tries to slip his canon in her backside, I always have problems against this. Nice interview, didn't knew her.
I think this is wonderful! Dont Think there are enough female players this is a great start =D
Though i do feel the game has alot of potential to attract a more diverse fanbase Also the interview was quite funny imo, shes quite the character! Pretty interesting.
Though i do still wish i could get my girlfriend to play this game, tough tho as shes not asian =(. Hmm... Ah well... Thanks for the intresting interview!!
Hands down one of the best players interviews I've read in a long time. If female SC2 scene can grow somewhat bigger that would be great. Although I do not expect much I still think it could be something.
On November 10 2010 05:58 backtoback wrote: isn't it odd TLO would tell his friend that she can't beat pikachu? hmm
TLO tell his friend that HE can't beat Pikachu.
*double check top \ source... * yup, pretty sure.
My bad. After getting better translation source, that is indeed what he said. Although since this is TL I'm sure TLO can come by and speak up to correct us
On November 10 2010 05:58 Weavel wrote: I'd like to know her ranking, but as usually its not mentioned. I guess some thinks are more important than skill...
Yea, from what I can tell she wasn't even Diamond until recently?
On November 10 2010 05:58 Weavel wrote: I'd like to know her ranking, but as usually its not mentioned. I guess some thinks are more important than skill...
Last I checked she was Diamond with about 65% win rate.
On November 10 2010 05:58 Weavel wrote: I'd like to know her ranking, but as usually its not mentioned. I guess some thinks are more important than skill...
Last I checked she was Diamond with about 65% win rate.
Updated. She's #1 in her diamond division. Not sure about her sc2rank.
I hope she gets good enough to pass the prelims of MLG or IEM or even GSL, would be great to see a female in one of the major tourneys. (besides Haemonculus)
On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote: Ehhh...I kinda feel like...who cares? There are much better players than her and it's silly to get worked up over a girl just because she plays Starcraft. Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable and I see no immediate reason why I would prefer her over someone more outgoing and accomplished.
I'm not sure if you're saying what you intended to say, but either way your subliminal consciousness has been expressed.
I was in a mini mall foodcourt in the Spadina chinatown (in Toronto) a few months back when sc2 was still in beta and saw two asian girls had set up their laptops to play BW. One of the girls looked surprisingly like this Linda Lao (except she had black hair). I had to catch my ride so I didn't get a chance to chat with them.
I wonder if it was really her? The interview does say she lived in Canada for a while, but is she still staying here?
Thanks for the translation OP. Here's more on Pikachu, he thread actually got featured/mentioned in a taiwanese news report on Linda and theres a few translated interviews there as well for those interested.
That's pretty cool though, she knows TLO/Huk and the other progamers. Avaclon, you mentioned that the Chinese/Taiwanese eSports scene is on the "verge of exploding". Is SC2 really getting that popular over there?
On November 10 2010 05:58 Weavel wrote: I'd like to know her ranking, but as usually its not mentioned. I guess some thinks are more important than skill...
Ranking is not skills. You make no point. She won a tournament, she deserves an interview like anyone else, it's not ONLY because she's a girl.
On November 10 2010 06:18 simme123 wrote: To be honest I just don't see what's so remarkable she's a girl and she plays starcraft .. what am I missing here?
I have to side with this overall sentiment. Not to mention those interview answers were asinine. Most of the time they either lacked any real answer, gave a joke answer or just said something was cute.
On November 10 2010 05:58 Weavel wrote: I'd like to know her ranking, but as usually its not mentioned. I guess some thinks are more important than skill...
Last I checked she was Diamond with about 65% win rate.
Updated. She's #1 in her diamond division. Not sure about her sc2rank.
That Pikachu in the marine suit is f'ing awesome. I'm really glad to see that there are females who aren't turned off by SC2 because it seems like a "male-dominated" game.
The interview was meh, but there were some cool images (Pikarine especially). It's also pretty cool to know that there are models and other random high-profile people out there who are into competitive gaming.
On November 10 2010 06:18 simme123 wrote: To be honest I just don't see what's so remarkable she's a girl and she plays starcraft .. what am I missing here?
I have to side with this overall sentiment. Not to mention those interview answers were asinine. Most of the time they either lacked any real answer, gave a joke answer or just said something was cute.
its significant because its a celebrity. It's like what if you found out angelina jolie played starcraft 2, and she was good enough to win a international female tournament in addition to all her other work.
On November 10 2010 06:28 Brusko651 wrote: This interview is kind of sexist. They would never ask a male progamer if Zerg are cute or disgusting in his opinion lol.
Thats a great point, I wish they would field questions like this to male players more often.
Really though I am not being sarcastic, so many of the tournament questions are so repetitive that everyone asks them. I like questions that they have to think about. I mean how many times do we need to hear, "I will try harder for my fans, I hope I can take 1st next time"
Throw them off balance and ask some crazy questions.
On November 10 2010 06:15 crazeman wrote: Thanks for the translation OP. Here's more on Pikachu, he thread actually got featured/mentioned in a taiwanese news report on Linda and theres a few translated interviews there as well for those interested.
That's pretty cool though, she knows TLO/Huk and the other progamers. Avaclon, you mentioned that the Chinese/Taiwanese eSports scene is on the "verge of exploding". Is SC2 really getting that popular over there?
Not SC2, but eSports in general (other games such as DOTA or CS). There's a bunch of tournaments being setup here and there. There's recently been a Champion of China league SC2 cup that was pretty decent that I haven't found any mention on TL. Loner, Linda's achievement made the news (on different side of the isle), especially since Loner walked away 2nd place in Blizzcon. Both Linda and Sen are consider "Pride of Taiwan". I wouldn't say GSL or even MLG level, but the fact it IS happening is pretty significant.
Almost 100% sure I played against her when she was making the climb to top Diamond. If not I faced someone else named Pikachu on NA/SEA server (SEA being combined with NA now) who was quite good. Also it is a very good sign for e-sports that female gamers are showing interest as well.
On November 10 2010 05:46 Avaclon wrote: Q: Do you dislike a particular race? (Terran/Zerg)? Which units do you feel most satisfied when destroying it?
A: I like all the races. As long as the opponent say "gg" I'm satisified.
On November 10 2010 06:18 simme123 wrote: To be honest I just don't see what's so remarkable she's a girl and she plays starcraft .. what am I missing here?
I have to side with this overall sentiment. Not to mention those interview answers were asinine. Most of the time they either lacked any real answer, gave a joke answer or just said something was cute.
its significant because its a celebrity. It's like what if you found out angelina jolie played starcraft 2, and she was good enough to win a international female tournament in addition to all her other work
Taken out of context I totally agree with what those guys are saying, since this is a Taiwanese celebrity that I had to wikipeda to find out what the big fuss is about since I had never heard of her before.
Turns out she's like the Olivia Wilde of Taiwan or something.
On November 10 2010 07:24 TheRabidDeer wrote: him not being able to beat pikachu means that pikachu could beat him... they are the same thing o.O
Not exactly, because if the statement was that 'Pikachu could beat him' then it's also possible that he could beat Pikachu, they're not mutually exclusive.
thanks for the translation - reminds me of a Korean classmate of mine...we played BW a while, he stomped me, and then he told me that his wife was a lot better than him O_O his wife is around 30-32 I think, probably close to the same age as our Pikachu here
gaming definitely gets a different reception in Asian countries, much more accepted by the parents and girls don't automatically discount you because you like to game (it's pretty much expected)
On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote: Ehhh...I kinda feel like...who cares? There are much better players than her and it's silly to get worked up over a girl just because she plays Starcraft. Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable and I see no immediate reason why I would prefer her over someone more outgoing and accomplished.
Are you talking about her playing skills or dating her? Sounds like your sizing her up like a potential mate.
Don't you see his name? Dude's gotta be picky about women. They must be clambering over each other just to catch a glimpse of his perfect (and gilded!) body.
On November 10 2010 06:18 simme123 wrote: To be honest I just don't see what's so remarkable she's a girl and she plays starcraft .. what am I missing here?
On November 10 2010 06:46 Roe wrote: why is there a "female cup"?
Why not? There's nothing negative about it.
Yes there is, it's segregation. Male and female have the same hands/brains, makig a specific tourney is like saying, well, they couldn't ever beat men.
She seemed very interesting, though I found the questions rather dull. What did you think when you saw an enemy's pylon at your base? Are zergs cute?
On November 10 2010 06:46 Roe wrote: why is there a "female cup"?
Why not? There's nothing negative about it.
Yes there is, it's segregation. Male and female have the same hands/brains, makig a specific tourney is like saying, well, they couldn't ever beat men.
She seemed very interesting, though I found the questions rather dull. What did you think when you saw an enemy's pylon at your base? Are zergs cute?
Actually, women typically have smaller hands, and their brains are wired differently as well. Men are more left-hemisphere focused on top of many other differences (go google and educate yourself.)
And it's not segregation. Don't throw terms like that around without even knowing what it means. Segregation would imply that women are not allowed to participate in tournaments (ie all other tournaments are 'male only') which is clearly false.
On November 10 2010 08:13 rally_point wrote: Just a small discrepancy I thought I'd point out - in the thread title her last name is spelled "Liao" whereas in the OP her last name is "Lao"
Doesn't really matter but... small things like this peeve me a bit lol
On November 10 2010 06:46 Roe wrote: why is there a "female cup"?
Why not? There's nothing negative about it.
Yes there is, it's segregation. Male and female have the same hands/brains, makig a specific tourney is like saying, well, they couldn't ever beat men.
She seemed very interesting, though I found the questions rather dull. What did you think when you saw an enemy's pylon at your base? Are zergs cute?
No woman is forbidden from entering a regular tournament, they are in the minority and have a cup for themselves, makes them play more and get more involved etc etc how is it bad?
Btw she must get revenge on idra for making tossgirl cry!
On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote: Ehhh...I kinda feel like...who cares? There are much better players than her and it's silly to get worked up over a girl just because she plays Starcraft. Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable and I see no immediate reason why I would prefer her over someone more outgoing and accomplished.
She is also a famous celebrity in Taiwan. Good job leaving out facts.
This just really shows how diverse the population is for SC2. Perhaps other females who see this may begin playing. The stigma attached to gaming is terrible and is often portrayed negatively (at least in the American society, most notably the media). Seeing someone like a famous celebrity devote a lot of her time into gaming, in a way, serves as a "counter argument" to all the negative arguments we get against gaming. With more people like Linda Liao, eventually the gaming community can peel away this negative stigma society has on us gamers. At least this is how more open-minded may perceive the world as opposed to the narrow-minded view of "Oh, she is just a girl. Who cares?"
Having a limited community will only hurt gaming and e-sports in the long run. Don't belittle the important things that go on in this community, its pathetic.
On November 10 2010 06:48 SichuanPanda wrote: Almost 100% sure I played against her when she was making the climb to top Diamond. If not I faced someone else named Pikachu on NA/SEA server (SEA being combined with NA now) who was quite good. Also it is a very good sign for e-sports that female gamers are showing interest as well.
On November 10 2010 08:35 dRaW wrote: Hmm, I know girls can be good @ sc, but I never thought TLO wouldn't be able to beat her O.o weird how she just became diamond recently.
Thats obvious said in jest/a joke/something simillar :p Im sure shes a decent diamond player but just like the rest of us she doesnt have a chance against those who practice 10 hours a day, every day.
On November 10 2010 06:46 Roe wrote: why is there a "female cup"?
Why not? There's nothing negative about it.
Yes there is, it's segregation. Male and female have the same hands/brains, makig a specific tourney is like saying, well, they couldn't ever beat men.
She seemed very interesting, though I found the questions rather dull. What did you think when you saw an enemy's pylon at your base? Are zergs cute?
sorry but it's true? do you see female players in sc2 tournies? no? females are less competitive in sports, brain games, and academics. you dont see female nba players. out of ~1.4k grandmasters, only 22 are female. academic awards? out of ~130 nobel prize laureates in the past decade, only 13 were female.
On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote: Ehhh...I kinda feel like...who cares? There are much better players than her and it's silly to get worked up over a girl just because she plays Starcraft. Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable and I see no immediate reason why I would prefer her over someone more outgoing and accomplished.
So because a girl plays video games she's less outgoing and less accomplished and less desirable than other girls?...
On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote: Ehhh...I kinda feel like...who cares? There are much better players than her and it's silly to get worked up over a girl just because she plays Starcraft. Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable and I see no immediate reason why I would prefer her over someone more outgoing and accomplished.
So because a girl plays video games she's less outgoing and less accomplished and less desirable than other girls?...
Do you play starcraft2?
Do you see what's wrong with your statement?
do women find male body builders attractive? im sure a lot do do men find female body builders attractive? im not so sure about that one
On November 10 2010 06:46 Roe wrote: why is there a "female cup"?
Why not? There's nothing negative about it.
Yes there is, it's segregation. Male and female have the same hands/brains, makig a specific tourney is like saying, well, they couldn't ever beat men.
She seemed very interesting, though I found the questions rather dull. What did you think when you saw an enemy's pylon at your base? Are zergs cute?
Zergs are cute. Banelings big and rolly. awww greeeen <3
Yeah I'am not really seeing why thar's a Female Cup. As a gamer ones goal should be that of being the best or one of the best. Clearly she's very good so I'd love to see her in some real competition with males and females. Not saying the Female Cup is nothing to laugh at but I just don't get why you would do split Sc2 like that.
Pretty neat interview if a tad fluffed she's someone to keep an eye on that's for sure.
On November 10 2010 06:46 Roe wrote: why is there a "female cup"?
Why not? There's nothing negative about it.
Yes there is, it's segregation. Male and female have the same hands/brains, makig a specific tourney is like saying, well, they couldn't ever beat men.
She seemed very interesting, though I found the questions rather dull. What did you think when you saw an enemy's pylon at your base? Are zergs cute?
Well girls aren't as good currently. It's because very few girls play starcraft, and gaming among women is generally looked down on in any society. It's already been said in another topic but society's expectations for women is much higher than that of men.
I think this tourny is a good way to break down those walls if anything. Is the LPGA sexist? what about female olympics? I would think that the female competitors in those organizations are very happy they exist.
On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote: Ehhh...I kinda feel like...who cares? There are much better players than her and it's silly to get worked up over a girl just because she plays Starcraft. Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable and I see no immediate reason why I would prefer her over someone more outgoing and accomplished.
So because a girl plays video games she's less outgoing and less accomplished and less desirable than other girls?...
Do you play starcraft2?
Do you see what's wrong with your statement?
do women find male body builders attractive? im sure a lot do do men find female body builders attractive? im not so sure about that one
Not a good example. Body building actually changes the way your body looks, video games in no way shape or form change what your body looks like, it doesn't changes how outgoing you are, and doesn't make you less accomplished, as this article clearly shows.
I akin this to more like a morbidly obese fat guy who won't date anyone unless they are perfect looking. I think it's pathetic, but hey I guess thats just the way things are.
it's always interesting to me how chinese players use the hotkeys to refer to the things you build, like bb or vf instead of rax and fact, respectively.
I love her responses to the interview, hope she continues to play and that female leagues continue to do well in SC2.
And to those who say female leagues are sexist, it's not. It's encouraging a small minority group to get their own time to shine and it's something that most gamers enjoy seeing when normally woman are uninterested or even at times pushed out due to negative attitudes. Being a female gamer is definitely not the same as when your male.
girls playing in girl only leagues sc2 ? I'm all for it. they can compete without playing against males which is one of the most discouraging things that can happen...ever
On November 10 2010 10:21 Antoine wrote: it's always interesting to me how chinese players use the hotkeys to refer to the things you build, like bb or vf instead of rax and fact, respectively.
wait, i'm chinese in canada and started doing that by myself (not to myself).. maybe it's genetic
Q: Taiwanese players now dub thee the 'Protoss queen', how do you feel about this nickname? Do you feel pressured?
A: But I was considering switching to Terran, what do I do now? :D
Noo, I hope she doesn't switch. Being dubbed the 'Protoss Queen' means being the next Selendis! I would be sad if you did change races though. It's always amazing to see females rising up to stand on equal footing with the males in competitive gaming.
On November 10 2010 06:18 simme123 wrote: To be honest I just don't see what's so remarkable she's a girl and she plays starcraft .. what am I missing here?
I have to side with this overall sentiment. Not to mention those interview answers were asinine. Most of the time they either lacked any real answer, gave a joke answer or just said something was cute.
You must be a huge IdrA fan. Interviews are to see the personality of the person more than it is to get some serious answers unless it's for politics or something. She gave a great interview.
She's a girl who won the most exposed female tournament for sc2 while being a celebrity, it's interesting even if you exclude that she's a celebrity. If you're not interested then don't read it and don't comment about it. I don't really understand the logic of being uninterested then wasting your time reading and commenting about it.
I'd like to see her improve and be caught in longer games, her replays from the cup are all like 8-14 minutes.
Hope she gets into the male proscene. I want to see more double-X in SC2, seeing as it's already too late for BW. Not a woman, just interested in not having a sausagefest... SCgirlfriend is too good to not check out.
On November 10 2010 13:03 andrewlt wrote: Considering she's a TV star, I'm pretty sure she's making more money than the best e-sports players in her day job.
And I'm pretty sure you base this of off nothing but the feeling in your gut.
everything which gives more positive attention to sc2 is good with me.
On November 10 2010 13:03 andrewlt wrote: Considering she's a TV star, I'm pretty sure she's making more money than the best e-sports players in her day job.
And I'm pretty sure you base this of off nothing but the feeling in your gut.
everything which gives more positive attention to sc2 is good with me.
The top BW players make the equivalent of roughly $300,000. You don't think a huge TV star in Taiwan is easily making more than that?
On November 10 2010 13:03 andrewlt wrote: Considering she's a TV star, I'm pretty sure she's making more money than the best e-sports players in her day job.
And I'm pretty sure you base this of off nothing but the feeling in your gut.
everything which gives more positive attention to sc2 is good with me.
The top BW players make the equivalent of roughly $300,000. You don't think a huge TV star in Taiwan is easily making more than that?
TV stars in Taiwan don't make much money in comparison to Western countries. I doubt she makes more than 100k.
Nice interview. I dont get people that hate this interview? How often do you see a girl that good at RTS? She got some serious skill there, better than many guys around here I guess, for that only she has my support. I dont think she's gonna step in the pro-gamer area. She just play SC2 'cos she loves it. EDIT: I just do some google with her Chinese name. One more thing I found, she was very good at math when she was in school. Very smart girl I'd say :D
On November 10 2010 06:18 simme123 wrote: To be honest I just don't see what's so remarkable she's a girl and she plays starcraft .. what am I missing here?
Q: People are wondering, from the time of your first replays that's released publicly a few months ago 'til your recent ranking in diamond. Could you please talk a little bit about your training process?
A: When I first released my replays I was a baby Pikachu, now I've grown! Diamonds are a girl's best friend. When I started I didn't care about improving my skills, what I really wanted that shiny diamond.
This answer made me a fan of this girl I think I never saw such a great, cute, non-elitist answer.
On November 10 2010 13:03 andrewlt wrote: Considering she's a TV star, I'm pretty sure she's making more money than the best e-sports players in her day job.
And I'm pretty sure you base this of off nothing but the feeling in your gut.
everything which gives more positive attention to sc2 is good with me.
The top BW players make the equivalent of roughly $300,000. You don't think a huge TV star in Taiwan is easily making more than that?
TV stars in Taiwan don't make much money in comparison to Western countries. I doubt she makes more than 100k.
Really? I got the impression from her Wikipedia and Facebook page that she's a pretty big A-list actress. I left the Philippines a decade ago and it's my impression that the biggest celebrities there (even the non-Pacquaio ones) make more than that. Taiwan is a more developed country.
I find it funny how some neckbeards get upset about female tournaments while at the same time avidly supporting 'foreigner tournaments'. In both tournaments, most "top players" don't participate, but for some reason it's only the female tournaments that get under their skin. I wonder why? Actually I don't wonder.
Get over it, and congratulations to Linda Liao. Fun interview, I wish they would ask these kinds of questions to male players too so the interviews would be less boring.
On November 10 2010 13:03 andrewlt wrote: Considering she's a TV star, I'm pretty sure she's making more money than the best e-sports players in her day job.
And I'm pretty sure you base this of off nothing but the feeling in your gut.
everything which gives more positive attention to sc2 is good with me.
The top BW players make the equivalent of roughly $300,000. You don't think a huge TV star in Taiwan is easily making more than that?
TV stars in Taiwan don't make much money in comparison to Western countries. I doubt she makes more than 100k.
Really? I got the impression from her Wikipedia and Facebook page that she's a pretty big A-list actress. I left the Philippines a decade ago and it's my impression that the biggest celebrities there (even the non-Pacquaio ones) make more than that. Taiwan is a more developed country.
Haven't looked at her facebook page but the Wikipedia entry is far from showing shes a a big a-list actress.
She's only getting attention because she's an attractive female. Hilarious shit. She might even be a good player, but she'll never really be recognized for it.
to all of u that says "she's only getting attention only because she's a girl/ she's not so good, bla bla bla"
this is exactly what we need to reach out to female audience DUH! stop ur elitist or sexual equality bullshit attitude, the fact remains that SC2 doesn't have enough female players and it remains a large pool of potential competitors that is untapped, i won't deny the fact that womens league skill level atm is not as competitive as the pro scene, but we should encourage their growth and credibility instead of discrediting them..
its doubly more amazing that a Taiwanense celebrity wins it, it's gonna inspire more women to take up this game, i don't get why are u people so negatively against that....
On November 10 2010 14:36 JTWStephens wrote: She's only getting attention because she's an attractive female. Hilarious shit. She might even be a good player, but she'll never really be recognized for it.
Um...she's getting attention BECAUSE she won a tournament? /sigh.
On November 10 2010 14:45 Shizuru~ wrote: to all of u that says "she's only getting attention only because she's a girl/ she's not so good, bla bla bla"
this is exactly what we need to reach out to female audience DUH! stop ur elitist or sexual equality bullshit attitude, the fact remains that SC2 doesn't have enough female players and it remains a large pool of potential competitors that is untapped, i won't deny the fact that womens league skill level atm is not as competitive as the pro scene, but we should encourage their growth and credibility instead of discrediting them..
its doubly more amazing that a Taiwanense celebrity wins it, it's gonna inspire more women to take up this game, i don't get why are u people so negatively against that....
awesome interviews, now i'm a Pikachu fan too!
Interviews like these while "positive" in nature only further draw the line between male and female gamers.
If a female gamer wants to get really good and practices hard and becomes a strong player, I am all for that.
But there is really no reason that females and males shouldn't be held to the same standards.
Plenty of females play games now, if they were held to the same standards instead of getting special treatment they might step their game up more.
I had a female gamer friend who liked RTS, she was able to pump out 300-450 apm back in the day, she got good because she wasn't babied... it was because she was held to the same standards as all the guys.
A few johnny-rainclouds on this thread. To the bleeding hearts complaining about sexism- how about you leave it to the women to complain about the sexism? Oh, right. There is not a very big population of women playing Starcraft in order to complain. That's part of the point of this interview, the tournament and others like it.
Pretty sure guys aren't losing opportunities to play because of this tournament and the interview. If you aren't being denied opportunity, what's the big deal. This is providing new opportunities and new promotions.
Shirzuru has it right on the money. This is just the sort of thing SC needs to promote the game to the opposite gender. How people can continue to find offense in this is beyond me.
On November 10 2010 14:45 Shizuru~ wrote: to all of u that says "she's only getting attention only because she's a girl/ she's not so good, bla bla bla"
this is exactly what we need to reach out to female audience DUH! stop ur elitist or sexual equality bullshit attitude, the fact remains that SC2 doesn't have enough female players and it remains a large pool of potential competitors that is untapped, i won't deny the fact that womens league skill level atm is not as competitive as the pro scene, but we should encourage their growth and credibility instead of discrediting them..
its doubly more amazing that a Taiwanense celebrity wins it, it's gonna inspire more women to take up this game, i don't get why are u people so negatively against that....
awesome interviews, now i'm a Pikachu fan too!
Interviews like these while "positive" in nature only further draw the line between male and female gamers.
If a female gamer wants to get really good and practices hard and becomes a strong player, I am all for that.
But there is really no reason that females and males shouldn't be held to the same standards.
Plenty of females play games now, if they were held to the same standards instead of getting special treatment they might step their game up more.
I had a female gamer friend who liked RTS, she was able to pump out 300-450 apm back in the day, she got good because she wasn't babied... it was because she was held to the same standards as all the guys.
You could say the same thing between Korean tournaments and foreigner tournaments.
On November 10 2010 15:05 robertdinh wrote: But there is really no reason that females and males shouldn't be held to the same standards.
Plenty of females play games now, if they were held to the same standards instead of getting special treatment they might step their game up more.
Why are we even concerned about 'standards?' Must there be a standard to have fun? Girls want to have fun playing against each other in a competitive environment. Why do we need standards? We're not fighting for women's rights to vote or own property. How can you turn a fun, competitive event into such a serious business?
On November 10 2010 15:05 robertdinh wrote: But there is really no reason that females and males shouldn't be held to the same standards.
Plenty of females play games now, if they were held to the same standards instead of getting special treatment they might step their game up more.
Why are we even concerned about 'standards?' Must there be a standard to have fun? Girls want to have fun playing against each other in a competitive environment. Why do we need standards? We're not fighting for women's rights to vote or own property. How can you turn a fun, competitive event into such a serious business?
I have no problem with people playing a video game for fun... but if they are going to do that they should be judged objectively on those specific merits.
There should be no exaggeration of what they've done.
Don't know what the argument is about. Pikachu fighting~ ! I actually really like the personality that comes off here in her interview, unlike the one Tossgirl interview there was (I like science vessels because they look like Micky Mouse, talk about asinine).
On November 10 2010 15:05 robertdinh wrote: But there is really no reason that females and males shouldn't be held to the same standards.
Plenty of females play games now, if they were held to the same standards instead of getting special treatment they might step their game up more.
Why are we even concerned about 'standards?' Must there be a standard to have fun? Girls want to have fun playing against each other in a competitive environment. Why do we need standards? We're not fighting for women's rights to vote or own property. How can you turn a fun, competitive event into such a serious business?
I have no problem with people playing a video game for fun... but if they are going to do that they should be judged objectively on those specific merits.
There should be no exaggeration of what they've done.
Where is the exaggeration of what she's done? She has a real job in a more lucrative industry dabbling in a less lucrative one and doing well in it. Nobody's pretending she's good enough to win the GSL or anything like it. You're reading something that doesn't exist.
Besides, there are plenty of country, university, region and whatever tournaments that are going on right now. In BW, there were even plenty of non-Korean tournaments. People should be free to do tournaments as they please without a lot of naysayers just shitting on their accomplishments.
On November 10 2010 15:16 robertdinh wrote: I have no problem with people playing a video game for fun... but if they are going to do that they should be judged objectively on those specific merits.
There should be no exaggeration of what they've done.
So where's the exaggeration? She played in the ESL women's tournament and won. She's a diamond player. That's no hyperbole of her skills. She's being highlighted because the tournament happened and she won.
You argue that were she a guy, this interview would never have been written. Maybe, but how is your method promoting more girls to play? No tournament, just another gender-less tag in the Battlenet 2.0 ladder. Buried.
Things like this create awareness and hopefully will get more girls playing because it is both fun and competitive. Once (or if) the population can increase, then we'll see an increase in skilled girl RTS'ers not the other way around. SCBW had TosSgirl and that was it. Even then, there were Korean female leagues until 05. It's a megaphone to other girls that 'hey we're here.' If they get together and have fun, they'll be more likely to promote SC. And a women's tournament is a good entry into the world of RTS's. As an event, it's attractive. Much more attractive then trying to qualify for the GSL and getting smoked. It's another tournament. Not everything needs to be measure according to the GSL standard.
On November 10 2010 15:05 robertdinh wrote: But there is really no reason that females and males shouldn't be held to the same standards.
Plenty of females play games now, if they were held to the same standards instead of getting special treatment they might step their game up more.
Why are we even concerned about 'standards?' Must there be a standard to have fun? Girls want to have fun playing against each other in a competitive environment. Why do we need standards? We're not fighting for women's rights to vote or own property. How can you turn a fun, competitive event into such a serious business?
I have no problem with people playing a video game for fun... but if they are going to do that they should be judged objectively on those specific merits.
There should be no exaggeration of what they've done.
i play video games for fun. what are those standards you want to hold me up to?
Wait... isn't it kind of offensive that there is a female only SC2 cup? I'm not really sure so don't think I'm just like blowing the politically correct horn here. I have always just accepted it but it just occurred to me that we view SC2 and SC:BW as games of skill and intellect, not necessarily of physical ability... so doesn't separating men and women imply that they have a lesser skill/intellect than men?
It's sort of like if we were to separate women from men in math bowl. Or during a chess tournament. I know that there is a big discussion about whether or not chess tournaments should be segregated (equality VS encouraging women to play) so we should probably address that in our favorite game as well.
As I said I'm just kind of throwing that out there for discussion. I think it's kind of important to discuss instead of "lolol she's hot".. "oh no ppl only likes her cuz she's hawt"
EDIT: Yeah as I'm reading more of the previous posts.... everyone seems to be concerned with whether it is sexist or not to exaggerate someone's accomplishments according to their gender. That's an issue, sure, but the bigger one is why we are separating their tournaments from ours when all SC2 takes is a sharp intellect and practiced skill, two things that women can acquire just as sure as men can.
bunch of morons posting here... that's like saying that there should be no coverage of womens basketball because those bitches couldn't hold a candle to the NBA... She won a female tournament, there are VERY VERY few female players, do you understand how more females get into a game like this? they see a celebrity who plays, and think "hey maybe this isn't something just for the boys living in their mothers basements"
Saying they should be ignored, and that will push girls to do better is asinine... what will get girls to play better is if there are more in the player pool improving their skills. You think a female SC2 player isnt out there right now practicing her ass off so she can beat pikachu in the next female tourney?
The first guy on here to start the "who cares its just a girl" said it best when he compared her to someone he would want to be with, sorry internet tough guy, we all know you will never get with a girl as cute as her anyway. Pretending like you wouldn't date her in a second is nothing but a load of bullshit. (as if whether or not she was fuckable had ANYTHING to do with this in the first fucking place)
All the haters are basically saying there should be no female coverage unless some chick makes it to the top 8 of the GSL, then MAYBE she will be worth interviewing... give me a break.
On November 10 2010 15:58 nybbas wrote: bunch of morons posting here... that's like saying that there should be no coverage of womens basketball because those bitches couldn't hold a candle to the NBA... She won a female tournament, there are VERY VERY few female players, do you understand how more females get into a game like this? they see a celebrity who plays, and think "hey maybe this isn't something just for the boys living in their mothers basements"
Saying they should be ignored, and that will push girls to do better is asinine... what will get girls to play better is if there are more in the player pool improving their skills. You think a female SC2 player isnt out there right now practicing her ass off so she can beat pikachu in the next female tourney?
The first guy on here to start the "who cares its just a girl" said it best when he compared her to someone he would want to be with, sorry internet tough guy, we all know you will never get with a girl as cute as her anyway. Pretending like you wouldn't date her in a second is nothing but a load of bullshit. (as if whether or not she was fuckable had ANYTHING to do with this in the first fucking place)
All the haters are basically saying there should be no female coverage unless some chick makes it to the top 8 of the GSL, then MAYBE she will be worth interviewing... give me a break.
On November 10 2010 15:54 University wrote: Wait... isn't it kind of offensive that there is a female only SC2 cup? I'm not really sure so don't think I'm just like blowing the politically correct horn here. I have always just accepted it but it just occurred to me that we view SC2 and SC:BW as games of skill and intellect, not necessarily of physical ability... so doesn't separating men and women imply that they have a lesser skill/intellect than men?
It's sort of like if we were to separate women from men in math bowl. Or during a chess tournament. I know that there is a big discussion about whether or not chess tournaments should be segregated (equality VS encouraging women to play) so we should probably address that in our favorite game as well.
As I said I'm just kind of throwing that out there for discussion. I think it's kind of important to discuss instead of "lolol she's hot".. "oh no ppl only likes her cuz she's hawt"
EDIT: Yeah as I'm reading more of the previous posts.... everyone seems to be concerned with whether it is sexist or not to exaggerate someone's accomplishments according to their gender. That's an issue, sure, but the bigger one is why we are separating their tournaments from ours when all SC2 takes is a sharp intellect and practiced skill, two things that women can acquire just as sure as men can.
because we all know the female and male brains work identically right?
If anything its a vehicle that allows girls who are interested in SC2 to be able to relate and see other girls playing the game. The problem here is you have a game thats dominated by 99% males, by those statistics alone, the chances of seeing a girl in the top tiers is incredibly low.
Letting them have their own tournament is not only good for SC2 as an esport as a whole (how the fuck could it be damaging anyways?) I am sure it's something the girls appreciate.
1350 Diamond is pretty good, especially for TW server since that puts her at #770 and probably the best rating for a girl playing the game on TW server.
On November 10 2010 15:58 nybbas wrote: bunch of morons posting here... that's like saying that there should be no coverage of womens basketball because those bitches couldn't hold a candle to the NBA... She won a female tournament, there are VERY VERY few female players, do you understand how more females get into a game like this? they see a celebrity who plays, and think "hey maybe this isn't something just for the boys living in their mothers basements"
Saying they should be ignored, and that will push girls to do better is asinine... what will get girls to play better is if there are more in the player pool improving their skills. You think a female SC2 player isnt out there right now practicing her ass off so she can beat pikachu in the next female tourney?
The first guy on here to start the "who cares its just a girl" said it best when he compared her to someone he would want to be with, sorry internet tough guy, we all know you will never get with a girl as cute as her anyway. Pretending like you wouldn't date her in a second is nothing but a load of bullshit. (as if whether or not she was fuckable had ANYTHING to do with this in the first fucking place)
All the haters are basically saying there should be no female coverage unless some chick makes it to the top 8 of the GSL, then MAYBE she will be worth interviewing... give me a break.
Terrible analogy, basketball is a physical sport.
Yeah, and the female and male brain are identical, right? Is there any research that shows a female should be able to perform exactly as a male? Maybe they are better at the decision making, but they cant keep their handspeed up as fast as males, maybe its opposite, fuck maybe they are identical. Bitching about the chicks getting their own tourney, and getting press is nothing but pure nerdrage from a bunch of insecure morons.
Also, good job ignoring absolutely everything else in the post.
On November 10 2010 15:58 nybbas wrote: bunch of morons posting here... that's like saying that there should be no coverage of womens basketball because those bitches couldn't hold a candle to the NBA... She won a female tournament, there are VERY VERY few female players, do you understand how more females get into a game like this? they see a celebrity who plays, and think "hey maybe this isn't something just for the boys living in their mothers basements"
Saying they should be ignored, and that will push girls to do better is asinine... what will get girls to play better is if there are more in the player pool improving their skills. You think a female SC2 player isnt out there right now practicing her ass off so she can beat pikachu in the next female tourney?
The first guy on here to start the "who cares its just a girl" said it best when he compared her to someone he would want to be with, sorry internet tough guy, we all know you will never get with a girl as cute as her anyway. Pretending like you wouldn't date her in a second is nothing but a load of bullshit. (as if whether or not she was fuckable had ANYTHING to do with this in the first fucking place)
All the haters are basically saying there should be no female coverage unless some chick makes it to the top 8 of the GSL, then MAYBE she will be worth interviewing... give me a break.
Terrible analogy, basketball is a physical sport.
Like I said, because the female and male brain work identically. Is there any research that shows a female should be able to perform exactly as a male? Maybe they are better at the decision making, but they cant keep their handspeed up as fast as males, maybe its opposite, fuck maybe they are identical. Bitching about the chicks getting their own tourney, and getting press is nothing but pure nerdrage from a bunch of insecure morons.
Also, good job ignoring absolutely everything else in the post.
Ok so where is your research to show that females and males should be segregated... what specifically about how the male and female brains operate indicates to you that it should be so?
On November 10 2010 15:54 University wrote: Wait... isn't it kind of offensive that there is a female only SC2 cup? I'm not really sure so don't think I'm just like blowing the politically correct horn here. I have always just accepted it but it just occurred to me that we view SC2 and SC:BW as games of skill and intellect, not necessarily of physical ability... so doesn't separating men and women imply that they have a lesser skill/intellect than men?
It's sort of like if we were to separate women from men in math bowl. Or during a chess tournament. I know that there is a big discussion about whether or not chess tournaments should be segregated (equality VS encouraging women to play) so we should probably address that in our favorite game as well.
As I said I'm just kind of throwing that out there for discussion. I think it's kind of important to discuss instead of "lolol she's hot".. "oh no ppl only likes her cuz she's hawt"
EDIT: Yeah as I'm reading more of the previous posts.... everyone seems to be concerned with whether it is sexist or not to exaggerate someone's accomplishments according to their gender. That's an issue, sure, but the bigger one is why we are separating their tournaments from ours when all SC2 takes is a sharp intellect and practiced skill, two things that women can acquire just as sure as men can.
Not everyone has the same skillset. Imagine if they didn't have little league because "kids just need to learn to play better baseball". Strategy games lend themselves to those that are more focused on visual tasks which happens to be mostly males. There are other games in which females are just as good as male competitors however these games rarely appeal to girls. My wife plays world of warcraft and loves it and she is just as good as any other healer out there, in fact, personally i've only ever been outhealed 3 times on a consistant basis, 2 of them were females. The idea of separating people based on their traits is not a bad thing. In baseball there is the mlb of course, but there is little league, high school, softball, senior softball, fastpitch, etc etc. Why have more than 1 league? Because sport is meant to be enjoyed by everyone. In chess tournaments they usually have 2-3 brackets. 1400 and under, 1400-1900, and 1900+ are typical groups. No grandmaster would ever say that having lower level groups is stupid. All people want to feel a sense of accomplishment. Adapting to people's abilities and traits is an adequate way of not only promoting the game to a wider audience, but giving an opportunity for those who wouldn't normally feel like they have accomplished anything. (IE, winning a city wide little league, or winning a high school volleyball league). Some games do not need to be seperate (Take poker for instance), while others need to (like soccer). Starcraft needs more leagues to encourage more players. (Personally i would love to see under 18 tournaments, or 35+ tournaments, female tournaments, west coast, etc.etc.)
On November 10 2010 15:58 nybbas wrote: bunch of morons posting here... that's like saying that there should be no coverage of womens basketball because those bitches couldn't hold a candle to the NBA... She won a female tournament, there are VERY VERY few female players, do you understand how more females get into a game like this? they see a celebrity who plays, and think "hey maybe this isn't something just for the boys living in their mothers basements"
Saying they should be ignored, and that will push girls to do better is asinine... what will get girls to play better is if there are more in the player pool improving their skills. You think a female SC2 player isnt out there right now practicing her ass off so she can beat pikachu in the next female tourney?
The first guy on here to start the "who cares its just a girl" said it best when he compared her to someone he would want to be with, sorry internet tough guy, we all know you will never get with a girl as cute as her anyway. Pretending like you wouldn't date her in a second is nothing but a load of bullshit. (as if whether or not she was fuckable had ANYTHING to do with this in the first fucking place)
All the haters are basically saying there should be no female coverage unless some chick makes it to the top 8 of the GSL, then MAYBE she will be worth interviewing... give me a break.
Terrible analogy, basketball is a physical sport.
Like I said, because the female and male brain work identically. Is there any research that shows a female should be able to perform exactly as a male? Maybe they are better at the decision making, but they cant keep their handspeed up as fast as males, maybe its opposite, fuck maybe they are identical. Bitching about the chicks getting their own tourney, and getting press is nothing but pure nerdrage from a bunch of insecure morons.
Also, good job ignoring absolutely everything else in the post.
Ok so where is your research to show that females and males should be segregated... what specifically about how the male and female brains operate indicates to you that it should be so?
The fact that they operate differently at all would be enough of a reason to allow them to compete in their own tournaments. But it isn't even all mental, physical hand speed is also a requirement. Nice try though.
On November 10 2010 15:58 nybbas wrote: bunch of morons posting here... that's like saying that there should be no coverage of womens basketball because those bitches couldn't hold a candle to the NBA... She won a female tournament, there are VERY VERY few female players, do you understand how more females get into a game like this? they see a celebrity who plays, and think "hey maybe this isn't something just for the boys living in their mothers basements"
Saying they should be ignored, and that will push girls to do better is asinine... what will get girls to play better is if there are more in the player pool improving their skills. You think a female SC2 player isnt out there right now practicing her ass off so she can beat pikachu in the next female tourney?
The first guy on here to start the "who cares its just a girl" said it best when he compared her to someone he would want to be with, sorry internet tough guy, we all know you will never get with a girl as cute as her anyway. Pretending like you wouldn't date her in a second is nothing but a load of bullshit. (as if whether or not she was fuckable had ANYTHING to do with this in the first fucking place)
All the haters are basically saying there should be no female coverage unless some chick makes it to the top 8 of the GSL, then MAYBE she will be worth interviewing... give me a break.
Terrible analogy, basketball is a physical sport.
Like I said, because the female and male brain work identically. Is there any research that shows a female should be able to perform exactly as a male? Maybe they are better at the decision making, but they cant keep their handspeed up as fast as males, maybe its opposite, fuck maybe they are identical. Bitching about the chicks getting their own tourney, and getting press is nothing but pure nerdrage from a bunch of insecure morons.
Also, good job ignoring absolutely everything else in the post.
Ok so where is your research to show that females and males should be segregated... what specifically about how the male and female brains operate indicates to you that it should be so?
The fact that they operate differently at all would be enough of a reason to allow them to compete in their own tournaments. But it isn't even all mental, physical hand speed is also a requirement. Nice try though.
Sorry this argument holds no weight, even males have brains that operate differently from one another in certain ways.
Should left handed and right handed people also have separate leagues?
Viking cup is racist / biased because the brain of nordic people and everyone else is the same so according to robertdinh, they must allow everyone to play.
So was TSL because they did not allow Korean progamers.
See how stupid your arguments are?
First of all, i am pretty sure there are differences between female and male brain. Whether it hinders or aids them in playing Starcraft, I dont know. But feel free to post your research paper showing that they are equal and they judge everything in the same way. Keep in mind that for the longest time, they separate female chess from male chess.
Secondly, as Nazgul pointed out, this is about building a community. If these females want to play against other females then what's wrong. Just like the Nordics want to have their own Inhouse Cup.
On November 10 2010 15:54 University wrote: Wait... isn't it kind of offensive that there is a female only SC2 cup? I'm not really sure so don't think I'm just like blowing the politically correct horn here. I have always just accepted it but it just occurred to me that we view SC2 and SC:BW as games of skill and intellect, not necessarily of physical ability... so doesn't separating men and women imply that they have a lesser skill/intellect than men?
It's sort of like if we were to separate women from men in math bowl. Or during a chess tournament. I know that there is a big discussion about whether or not chess tournaments should be segregated (equality VS encouraging women to play) so we should probably address that in our favorite game as well.
As I said I'm just kind of throwing that out there for discussion. I think it's kind of important to discuss instead of "lolol she's hot".. "oh no ppl only likes her cuz she's hawt"
EDIT: Yeah as I'm reading more of the previous posts.... everyone seems to be concerned with whether it is sexist or not to exaggerate someone's accomplishments according to their gender. That's an issue, sure, but the bigger one is why we are separating their tournaments from ours when all SC2 takes is a sharp intellect and practiced skill, two things that women can acquire just as sure as men can.
because we all know the female and male brains work identically right?
If anything its a vehicle that allows girls who are interested in SC2 to be able to relate and see other girls playing the game. The problem here is you have a game thats dominated by 99% males, by those statistics alone, the chances of seeing a girl in the top tiers is incredibly low. Letting them have their own tournament is not only good for SC2 as an esport as a whole (how the fuck could it be damaging anyways?) I am sure it's something the girls appreciate.
Do you realize you just used the phrase "letting them have their own tournament"?
On November 10 2010 16:13 dtz wrote: Viking cup is racist / biased because the brain of nordic people and everyone else is the same so according to robertdinh, they must allow everyone to play.
So was TSL because they did not allow Korean progamers.
See how stupid your arguments are?
First of all, i am pretty sure there are differences between female and male brain. Whether it hinders or aids them in playing Starcraft, I dont know. But feel free to post your research paper showing that they are equal and they judge everything in the same way. Keep in mind that for the longest time, they separate female chess from male chess.
Secondly, as Nazgul pointed out, this is about building a community. If these females want to play against other females then what's wrong. Just like the Nordics want to have their own Inhouse Cup.
I never said the brain functions the same way, but it is simply far to complex to only divide it based on gender.
Please don't take things out of context or misrepresent someone's point of view.
Anyway this is a discussion best suited for a different thread I guess, grats to linda on her tournament victory...
I'd like to see esports get to a point where we just have males and females competing together at top tournaments though and that's all i'll say.
When she ladders she's playing with everyone. She seems to do ok there.
I think the issue of few or no good female players is a sheer numbers one. Think about how Korea has more super hard training skilled players so they produce more top players than NA/EU. Now imagine the difference between number of males and females playing to be orders of magnitude bigger. No wonder there are so few female players even making it to diamond, there just aren't that many so the likelihood of a super skilled player rising up is low. If as many females played SC2 as males, the number of top players that would be female would probably be close to half instead of the current none or one. Since almost no girls play, it's impossible to know if there are some girls out there that would be amazing 500APM diamond 2500 players since they'll never try to achieve that level of skill.
Wow guys. There is a big difference between "segregation" in tournaments and having a tournament based on specific qualifications. No one is stopping girls from entering other big tournaments like GSL, MLG, etc. No one is saying that girls can only compete in girls-only competitions. No one is saying this is the only competition girls can do well in. This tourney is just a tournament for girls against girls, just as there are tournaments for Bronze players only, Asian players only, left handed players only, players dressed in Halloween costumes only...
And it's not like a bunch of guys decided to round up some girls and have they play SC2 for their amusement. A group of girls wanted to have a tournament, and they had a tournament. For fun. FOR FUN.
I received an official English translation from Blizzard Entertainment Taiwan. I believe it is a better representation of her personality, and an overall better translation. I have updated the front page post with it. Some colloquialism were removed in order to get the meaning across better! Thanks Blizzard Taiwan~
On November 10 2010 16:13 dtz wrote: Viking cup is racist / biased because the brain of nordic people and everyone else is the same so according to robertdinh, they must allow everyone to play.
So was TSL because they did not allow Korean progamers.
See how stupid your arguments are?
First of all, i am pretty sure there are differences between female and male brain. Whether it hinders or aids them in playing Starcraft, I dont know. But feel free to post your research paper showing that they are equal and they judge everything in the same way. Keep in mind that for the longest time, they separate female chess from male chess.
Secondly, as Nazgul pointed out, this is about building a community. If these females want to play against other females then what's wrong. Just like the Nordics want to have their own Inhouse Cup.
I'm sorry but your whole Nordic example doesn't at all apply. A cup based on nationality is pretty well accepted. Most countries in the world have semi-national and national leagues.
I wasn't saying that it is overtly sexist. I'm just saying it is something we should consider. Can you not at least admit that? Meet me halfway here man.
We separate men and women from each other in competition because of physical differences. We don't exclude women from universities where people compete intellectually, nor do we exclude them from intellectual competitions e.g. Math bowl, spell bowl, trivia contests... you know, things that have no physical component.
Doing so would be absurd. So it is really quite fair to make the comparison here, and ask why we feel the need to separate women from men in SC2. I understand there are societal gender differences at work, and women play videogames a lot less than men do, but at a competitive level this shouldn't matter.
EDIT: I want to edit with respect to something lichter said about segregation VS separation. I understand that we aren't necessarily segregating these tournaments forcibly, but there is still a defined gender line in these SC2 cups for only women... so we have to ask why people felt the need to institute them.
Again, I'm not even sure I totally agree with my side of this argument. Just throwing it out there.
On November 10 2010 15:58 nybbas wrote: bunch of morons posting here... that's like saying that there should be no coverage of womens basketball because those bitches couldn't hold a candle to the NBA... She won a female tournament, there are VERY VERY few female players, do you understand how more females get into a game like this? they see a celebrity who plays, and think "hey maybe this isn't something just for the boys living in their mothers basements"
Saying they should be ignored, and that will push girls to do better is asinine... what will get girls to play better is if there are more in the player pool improving their skills. You think a female SC2 player isnt out there right now practicing her ass off so she can beat pikachu in the next female tourney?
The first guy on here to start the "who cares its just a girl" said it best when he compared her to someone he would want to be with, sorry internet tough guy, we all know you will never get with a girl as cute as her anyway. Pretending like you wouldn't date her in a second is nothing but a load of bullshit. (as if whether or not she was fuckable had ANYTHING to do with this in the first fucking place)
All the haters are basically saying there should be no female coverage unless some chick makes it to the top 8 of the GSL, then MAYBE she will be worth interviewing... give me a break.
Terrible analogy, basketball is a physical sport.
Like I said, because the female and male brain work identically. Is there any research that shows a female should be able to perform exactly as a male? Maybe they are better at the decision making, but they cant keep their handspeed up as fast as males, maybe its opposite, fuck maybe they are identical. Bitching about the chicks getting their own tourney, and getting press is nothing but pure nerdrage from a bunch of insecure morons.
Also, good job ignoring absolutely everything else in the post.
Ok so where is your research to show that females and males should be segregated... what specifically about how the male and female brains operate indicates to you that it should be so?
The fact that they operate differently at all would be enough of a reason to allow them to compete in their own tournaments. But it isn't even all mental, physical hand speed is also a requirement. Nice try though.
Sorry this argument holds no weight, even males have brains that operate differently from one another in certain ways.
Should left handed and right handed people also have separate leagues?
except research has been done that shows females are better at some mental tasks, while males are better at others.
On November 10 2010 16:17 lichter wrote: Wow guys. There is a big difference between "segregation" in tournaments and having a tournament based on specific qualifications. No one is stopping girls from entering other big tournaments like GSL, MLG, etc. No one is saying that girls can only compete in girls-only competitions. No one is saying this is the only competition girls can do well in. This tourney is just a tournament for girls against girls, just as there are tournaments for Bronze players only, Asian players only, left handed players only, players dressed in Halloween costumes only...
And it's not like a bunch of guys decided to round up some girls and have they play SC2 for their amusement. A group of girls wanted to have a tournament, and they had a tournament. For fun. FOR FUN.
Sheesh guys, so much ado about nothing.
That's a really good point, and I had to check my posts to make sure I only used "segregate" with reference to chess (which I did), but it's still a helpful difference that needed to be pointed out in the discussion so thanks for that.
Yes, there is no segregation obviously. No one is barring them from entering the GSL, but it still seems a little pandering to have a womens only tournament in my opinion. Yes I agree it might help women enjoy the sport more, so maybe this is better for the community than any (potential) harm that comes from tournaments like this.
every time a thread about women gaming comes up it's the same shit every time stop playing devil's advocates for 2 seconds and realize that this is only good for the community at large
On November 10 2010 16:17 lichter wrote: Wow guys. There is a big difference between "segregation" in tournaments and having a tournament based on specific qualifications. No one is stopping girls from entering other big tournaments like GSL, MLG, etc. No one is saying that girls can only compete in girls-only competitions. No one is saying this is the only competition girls can do well in. This tourney is just a tournament for girls against girls, just as there are tournaments for Bronze players only, Asian players only, left handed players only, players dressed in Halloween costumes only...
And it's not like a bunch of guys decided to round up some girls and have they play SC2 for their amusement. A group of girls wanted to have a tournament, and they had a tournament. For fun. FOR FUN.
Sheesh guys, so much ado about nothing.
That's a really good point, and I had to check my posts to make sure I only used "segregate" with reference to chess (which I did), but it's still a helpful difference that needed to be pointed out in the discussion so thanks for that.
Yes, there is no segregation obviously. No one is barring them from entering the GSL, but it still seems a little pandering to have a womens only tournament in my opinion. Yes I agree it might help women enjoy the sport more, so maybe this is better for the community than any (potential) harm that comes from tournaments like this.
One last point just to clarify on what lichter said...
Segregation works both ways, while GSL does not segregate males from females, an all female tournament does, and it just further perpetuates the male =! female concept.
But is it pandering to have a Bronze only tournament? Or a Silver only tournament?
And people will point out that it's not the same to differentiate between gender and skill level... but isn't that in itself sexist? I find it equally sexist that people are making such a big deal out of this just because of gender. So what? We are all playing the same game, playing for fun (well, ok most of us are). Anyone, of any minority or specific qualifications, should be allowed to have their own tournament without all this socio-political nonsense and overreaction.
On November 10 2010 16:13 dtz wrote: Viking cup is racist / biased because the brain of nordic people and everyone else is the same so according to robertdinh, they must allow everyone to play.
So was TSL because they did not allow Korean progamers.
See how stupid your arguments are?
First of all, i am pretty sure there are differences between female and male brain. Whether it hinders or aids them in playing Starcraft, I dont know. But feel free to post your research paper showing that they are equal and they judge everything in the same way. Keep in mind that for the longest time, they separate female chess from male chess.
Secondly, as Nazgul pointed out, this is about building a community. If these females want to play against other females then what's wrong. Just like the Nordics want to have their own Inhouse Cup.
I'm sorry but your whole Nordic example doesn't at all apply. A cup based on nationality is pretty well accepted. Most countries in the world have semi-national and national leagues.
I wasn't saying that it is overtly sexist. I'm just saying it is something we should consider. Can you not at least admit that? Meet me halfway here man.
We separate men and women from each other in competition because of physical differences. We don't exclude women from universities where people compete intellectually, nor do we exclude them from intellectual competitions e.g. Math bowl, spell bowl, trivia contests... you know, things that have no physical component.
Doing so would be absurd. So it is really quite fair to make the comparison here, and ask why we feel the need to separate women from men in SC2. I understand there are societal gender differences at work, and women play videogames a lot less than men do, but at a competitive level this shouldn't matter.
why we need to separate them? that's not the point.
Why it's ok to give them their own media coverage, and why its a good thing that they can have their own competitions... that's the argument... let me try to spell this out for you as clearly and simply as possible, since it seems you are having difficulty...
It's good for the SC2 esport in general - such a low number of females play, that giving them their own media coverage may help to spur other females to start playing themselves, otherwise all they see is a male dominated sport in which they have no urge to take part in themselves. THIS IS THE REASON IT DOES MATTER AT THE COMPETITIVE LEVEL. The chances of seeing girls at the same level of men is only going to increase if media coverage is given to them.
The amount of males to females is HUGELY disproportionate - with such a larger player base, its only natural the best of the best males are playing the game, and dominating. meanwhile the chances of a female coming out of the woodwork who is able to compete with them is insanely slim. Without giving some special media coverage to the female side, we would pretty much otherwise hear nothing about them... all for the sake of not being sexist or some bullshit... (more for the sake of keeping sc2 a boys club)
Starcraft is not a purely mental sport, there are physical aspects to it, comparing it to math bowls is ridiculous. The kinds of decision making, tactics, reaction times... I'm not saying girls are naturally worse, or who knows maybe naturally better, but to say that there is no reason to be allowed to play in their own leagues makes no sense...
why do you accept the concept of a cup based on nationality but not of gender?
isn't the aim of both tournaments the same? which is to build a community
yet, there seems to be reservations towards gender based and not nationality. Just because " oh it has been that way all along" isn't a valid argument.
On November 10 2010 16:17 lichter wrote: Wow guys. There is a big difference between "segregation" in tournaments and having a tournament based on specific qualifications. No one is stopping girls from entering other big tournaments like GSL, MLG, etc. No one is saying that girls can only compete in girls-only competitions. No one is saying this is the only competition girls can do well in. This tourney is just a tournament for girls against girls, just as there are tournaments for Bronze players only, Asian players only, left handed players only, players dressed in Halloween costumes only...
And it's not like a bunch of guys decided to round up some girls and have they play SC2 for their amusement. A group of girls wanted to have a tournament, and they had a tournament. For fun. FOR FUN.
Sheesh guys, so much ado about nothing.
That's a really good point, and I had to check my posts to make sure I only used "segregate" with reference to chess (which I did), but it's still a helpful difference that needed to be pointed out in the discussion so thanks for that.
Yes, there is no segregation obviously. No one is barring them from entering the GSL, but it still seems a little pandering to have a womens only tournament in my opinion. Yes I agree it might help women enjoy the sport more, so maybe this is better for the community than any (potential) harm that comes from tournaments like this.
One last point just to clarify on what lichter said...
Segregation works both ways, while GSL does not segregate males from females, an all female tournament does, and it just further perpetuates the male =! female concept.
Please stop. I know you think you're being a big defender of women everywhere, but its lunacy to think that all-girl tournaments are in any way bringing the rest of the female community down.
Everyone understands your reasoning, but it holds no practical purpose. Stopping all-girl tournaments from happening would accomplish what exactly? Why not encourage greater diversity especially in a field heavily criticized for its lack thereof.
On November 10 2010 16:13 dtz wrote: Viking cup is racist / biased because the brain of nordic people and everyone else is the same so according to robertdinh, they must allow everyone to play.
So was TSL because they did not allow Korean progamers.
See how stupid your arguments are?
First of all, i am pretty sure there are differences between female and male brain. Whether it hinders or aids them in playing Starcraft, I dont know. But feel free to post your research paper showing that they are equal and they judge everything in the same way. Keep in mind that for the longest time, they separate female chess from male chess.
Secondly, as Nazgul pointed out, this is about building a community. If these females want to play against other females then what's wrong. Just like the Nordics want to have their own Inhouse Cup.
I'm sorry but your whole Nordic example doesn't at all apply. A cup based on nationality is pretty well accepted. Most countries in the world have semi-national and national leagues.
I wasn't saying that it is overtly sexist. I'm just saying it is something we should consider. Can you not at least admit that? Meet me halfway here man.
We separate men and women from each other in competition because of physical differences. We don't exclude women from universities where people compete intellectually, nor do we exclude them from intellectual competitions e.g. Math bowl, spell bowl, trivia contests... you know, things that have no physical component.
Doing so would be absurd. So it is really quite fair to make the comparison here, and ask why we feel the need to separate women from men in SC2. I understand there are societal gender differences at work, and women play videogames a lot less than men do, but at a competitive level this shouldn't matter.
why we need to separate them? that's not the point.
Why it's ok to give them their own media coverage, and why its a good thing that they can have their own competitions... that's the argument... let me try to spell this out for you as clearly and simply as possible, since it seems you are having difficulty...
It's good for the SC2 esport in general - such a low number of females play, that giving them their own media coverage may help to spur other females to start playing themselves, otherwise all they see is a male dominated sport in which they have no urge to take part in themselves. THIS IS THE REASON IT DOES MATTER AT THE COMPETITIVE LEVEL. The chances of seeing girls at the same level of men is only going to increase if media coverage is given to them.
The amount of males to females is HUGELY disproportionate - with such a larger player base, its only natural the best of the best males are playing the game, and dominating. meanwhile the chances of a female coming out of the woodwork who is able to compete with them is insanely slim. Without giving some special media coverage to the female side, we would pretty much otherwise hear nothing about them... all for the sake of not being sexist or some bullshit... (more for the sake of keeping sc2 a boys club)
Starcraft is not a purely mental sport, there are physical aspects to it, comparing it to math bowls is ridiculous. The kinds of decision making, tactics, reaction times... I'm not saying girls are naturally worse, or who knows maybe naturally better, but to say that there is no reason to be allowed to play in their own leagues makes no sense...
Physical aspects? Like "tactics" and "decision making"?
On November 10 2010 16:36 dtz wrote: why do you accept the concept of a cup based on nationality but not of gender?
isn't the aim of both tournaments the same? which is to build a community
yet, there seems to be reservations towards gender based and not nationality. Just because " oh it has been that way all along" isn't a valid argument.
nah robert just believes its better for the girl gaming scene if they get completely fucking crushed in normal tournaments, rather then letting them *gasp* have a female only tourny.
On November 10 2010 16:13 dtz wrote: Viking cup is racist / biased because the brain of nordic people and everyone else is the same so according to robertdinh, they must allow everyone to play.
So was TSL because they did not allow Korean progamers.
See how stupid your arguments are?
First of all, i am pretty sure there are differences between female and male brain. Whether it hinders or aids them in playing Starcraft, I dont know. But feel free to post your research paper showing that they are equal and they judge everything in the same way. Keep in mind that for the longest time, they separate female chess from male chess.
Secondly, as Nazgul pointed out, this is about building a community. If these females want to play against other females then what's wrong. Just like the Nordics want to have their own Inhouse Cup.
I'm sorry but your whole Nordic example doesn't at all apply. A cup based on nationality is pretty well accepted. Most countries in the world have semi-national and national leagues.
I wasn't saying that it is overtly sexist. I'm just saying it is something we should consider. Can you not at least admit that? Meet me halfway here man.
We separate men and women from each other in competition because of physical differences. We don't exclude women from universities where people compete intellectually, nor do we exclude them from intellectual competitions e.g. Math bowl, spell bowl, trivia contests... you know, things that have no physical component.
Doing so would be absurd. So it is really quite fair to make the comparison here, and ask why we feel the need to separate women from men in SC2. I understand there are societal gender differences at work, and women play videogames a lot less than men do, but at a competitive level this shouldn't matter.
why we need to separate them? that's not the point.
Why it's ok to give them their own media coverage, and why its a good thing that they can have their own competitions... that's the argument... let me try to spell this out for you as clearly and simply as possible, since it seems you are having difficulty...
It's good for the SC2 esport in general - such a low number of females play, that giving them their own media coverage may help to spur other females to start playing themselves, otherwise all they see is a male dominated sport in which they have no urge to take part in themselves. THIS IS THE REASON IT DOES MATTER AT THE COMPETITIVE LEVEL. The chances of seeing girls at the same level of men is only going to increase if media coverage is given to them.
The amount of males to females is HUGELY disproportionate - with such a larger player base, its only natural the best of the best males are playing the game, and dominating. meanwhile the chances of a female coming out of the woodwork who is able to compete with them is insanely slim. Without giving some special media coverage to the female side, we would pretty much otherwise hear nothing about them... all for the sake of not being sexist or some bullshit... (more for the sake of keeping sc2 a boys club)
Starcraft is not a purely mental sport, there are physical aspects to it, comparing it to math bowls is ridiculous. The kinds of decision making, tactics, reaction times... I'm not saying girls are naturally worse, or who knows maybe naturally better, but to say that there is no reason to be allowed to play in their own leagues makes no sense...
Physical aspects? Like "tactics" and "decision making"?
thanks for picking out one line of my post to critique. I didn't mean to link that to physical aspects, I should have realized someone as dense as you wouldn't have been able to connect physical aspects to what you are doing with your hands while playing sc2.... Sorry for the bad writing.
On November 10 2010 16:30 robertdinh wrote: One last point just to clarify on what lichter said...
Segregation works both ways, while GSL does not segregate males from females, an all female tournament does, and it just further perpetuates the male =! female concept.
Yes I can understand that point, but again... why is it such a bad thing to have a niche tournament? It doesn't matter how that niche is identified--race, nationality, gender, sc2 race, shoe size... If they want to have a tournament for themselves, how can that be a bad thing (unless they go about it poorly, ie. flaming those they are excluding)?
On November 10 2010 16:17 lichter wrote: Wow guys. There is a big difference between "segregation" in tournaments and having a tournament based on specific qualifications. No one is stopping girls from entering other big tournaments like GSL, MLG, etc. No one is saying that girls can only compete in girls-only competitions. No one is saying this is the only competition girls can do well in. This tourney is just a tournament for girls against girls, just as there are tournaments for Bronze players only, Asian players only, left handed players only, players dressed in Halloween costumes only...
And it's not like a bunch of guys decided to round up some girls and have they play SC2 for their amusement. A group of girls wanted to have a tournament, and they had a tournament. For fun. FOR FUN.
Sheesh guys, so much ado about nothing.
That's a really good point, and I had to check my posts to make sure I only used "segregate" with reference to chess (which I did), but it's still a helpful difference that needed to be pointed out in the discussion so thanks for that.
Yes, there is no segregation obviously. No one is barring them from entering the GSL, but it still seems a little pandering to have a womens only tournament in my opinion. Yes I agree it might help women enjoy the sport more, so maybe this is better for the community than any (potential) harm that comes from tournaments like this.
One last point just to clarify on what lichter said...
Segregation works both ways, while GSL does not segregate males from females, an all female tournament does, and it just further perpetuates the male =! female concept.
Please stop. I know you think you're being a big defender of women everywhere, but its lunacy to think that all-girl tournaments are in any way bringing the rest of the female community down.
Everyone understands your reasoning, but it holds no practical purpose. Stopping all-girl tournaments from happening would accomplish what exactly? Why not encourage greater diversity especially in a field heavily criticized for its lack thereof.
'Grats to Pikachu
There's no reason to mock him man... but I sort of agree with your point in that stopping female tournaments would probably have an overall negative effect on the community. I'm sure it supports those girl gamers out there who are playing hard so that's a good thing.
And I also realized that I never said grats to Pikachu and that was sort of a bad move on my part...
On November 10 2010 16:17 lichter wrote: Wow guys. There is a big difference between "segregation" in tournaments and having a tournament based on specific qualifications. No one is stopping girls from entering other big tournaments like GSL, MLG, etc. No one is saying that girls can only compete in girls-only competitions. No one is saying this is the only competition girls can do well in. This tourney is just a tournament for girls against girls, just as there are tournaments for Bronze players only, Asian players only, left handed players only, players dressed in Halloween costumes only...
And it's not like a bunch of guys decided to round up some girls and have they play SC2 for their amusement. A group of girls wanted to have a tournament, and they had a tournament. For fun. FOR FUN.
Sheesh guys, so much ado about nothing.
That's a really good point, and I had to check my posts to make sure I only used "segregate" with reference to chess (which I did), but it's still a helpful difference that needed to be pointed out in the discussion so thanks for that.
Yes, there is no segregation obviously. No one is barring them from entering the GSL, but it still seems a little pandering to have a womens only tournament in my opinion. Yes I agree it might help women enjoy the sport more, so maybe this is better for the community than any (potential) harm that comes from tournaments like this.
One last point just to clarify on what lichter said...
Segregation works both ways, while GSL does not segregate males from females, an all female tournament does, and it just further perpetuates the male =! female concept.
Please stop. I know you think you're being a big defender of women everywhere, but its lunacy to think that all-girl tournaments are in any way bringing the rest of the female community down.
Everyone understands your reasoning, but it holds no practical purpose. Stopping all-girl tournaments from happening would accomplish what exactly? Why not encourage greater diversity especially in a field heavily criticized for its lack thereof.
'Grats to Pikachu
There's no reason to mock him man... but I sort of agree with your point in that stopping female tournaments would probably have an overall negative effect on the community. I'm sure it supports those girl gamers out there who are playing hard so that's a good thing.
And I also realized that I never said grats to Pikachu and that was sort of a bad move on my part...
so congratulations Pikachu
Really no mocking intended. If anyone feels girl-gamer tournaments should not exist, make a thread about it! Just don't shit in this one.
I realized I wrote a bit of an essay so I put it in a spoiler to save some grief, but if you want to see my female opinion on the Linda/female gaming hate, do read.
Have you noticed that anyone who is bashing on pikachu is a male? If you don't want to hear about a girl until she places in GSL, then go pay attention to GSL and when a female places, you'll know about her. Why does it bother you that there are female tournaments? You have no idea what it's like to be a female in a male dominated area, whether it's gaming, academics, a career, or even society in general. I really hope there will be a day when female tournaments become moot and we can all compete on equal ground, but that day's not today. Female tournaments let girls know we're not alone and we should keep on keeping on. It's very intimidating to enter the world of gaming when it's considered something "for boys," so if you're into it, you must be a tom boy, or not girly. It's very encouraging to see someone like Linda who is very good at the game but clearly still in touch with her feminine side. I for one, really enjoy the whimsical nature of the interview. I can relate to that. It's fun. Video games should be fun.
For some reason, guys are convinced that any girl into gaming is just there for the attention. I really enjoy SC. I like playing, I like watching, I like going to tournaments, but it's not fun to feel like an alien in these places, and it's really upsetting when everyone just assumes you're there for attention, or tries to discredit you just because you're attractive. Linda Liao is a good player, she's not just getting attention because she's hot. If she were ugly, instead of all of the "omg she's hot" comments, it would be "wow, she's so ugly" and instead of saying she's receiving attention for being attractive, you'd say she was only good at SC because she's ugly so she sits at home and practices all day.
Do you know there have actually been studies saying attractive people are less confident? Human beings are naturally self conscious of their looks, whether they're considered attractive by others or not and everyone has experienced the phenomenon of a beautiful girl thinking she's fat or ugly. So, someone considered unattractive, is self conscious of their looks as well as their general competence but lets say they do really well on a project, their peers or superiors inform them of such and they believe it. They think they worked really hard, and it showed. Someone considered attractive, though, is still concerned about their looks but now receives positive feedback on a project, but instead of thinking, I worked hard, they think those people are only complimenting the attractive person because they are attracted to him or her.
Either way, if you don't like it, go away! go Pikachu! Linda fighting, yay!
On November 10 2010 16:17 lichter wrote: Wow guys. There is a big difference between "segregation" in tournaments and having a tournament based on specific qualifications. No one is stopping girls from entering other big tournaments like GSL, MLG, etc. No one is saying that girls can only compete in girls-only competitions. No one is saying this is the only competition girls can do well in. This tourney is just a tournament for girls against girls, just as there are tournaments for Bronze players only, Asian players only, left handed players only, players dressed in Halloween costumes only...
And it's not like a bunch of guys decided to round up some girls and have they play SC2 for their amusement. A group of girls wanted to have a tournament, and they had a tournament. For fun. FOR FUN.
Sheesh guys, so much ado about nothing.
That's a really good point, and I had to check my posts to make sure I only used "segregate" with reference to chess (which I did), but it's still a helpful difference that needed to be pointed out in the discussion so thanks for that.
Yes, there is no segregation obviously. No one is barring them from entering the GSL, but it still seems a little pandering to have a womens only tournament in my opinion. Yes I agree it might help women enjoy the sport more, so maybe this is better for the community than any (potential) harm that comes from tournaments like this.
One last point just to clarify on what lichter said...
Segregation works both ways, while GSL does not segregate males from females, an all female tournament does, and it just further perpetuates the male =! female concept.
Please stop. I know you think you're being a big defender of women everywhere, but its lunacy to think that all-girl tournaments are in any way bringing the rest of the female community down.
Everyone understands your reasoning, but it holds no practical purpose. Stopping all-girl tournaments from happening would accomplish what exactly? Why not encourage greater diversity especially in a field heavily criticized for its lack thereof.
'Grats to Pikachu
There's no reason to mock him man... but I sort of agree with your point in that stopping female tournaments would probably have an overall negative effect on the community. I'm sure it supports those girl gamers out there who are playing hard so that's a good thing.
And I also realized that I never said grats to Pikachu and that was sort of a bad move on my part...
so congratulations Pikachu
There is every reason to mock him, what he is saying is completely ridiculous. Maybe he is playing devils advocate like someone said... or maybe he is just brain damaged. According to him, giving recognition to one of the best female sc2 players, and her winning a female sc2 comp is bad for women....
On November 10 2010 16:36 dtz wrote: why do you accept the concept of a cup based on nationality but not of gender?
isn't the aim of both tournaments the same? which is to build a community
yet, there seems to be reservations towards gender based and not nationality. Just because " oh it has been that way all along" isn't a valid argument.
nah robert just believes its better for the girl gaming scene if they get completely fucking crushed in normal tournaments, rather then letting them *gasp* have a female only tourny.
On November 10 2010 16:13 dtz wrote: Viking cup is racist / biased because the brain of nordic people and everyone else is the same so according to robertdinh, they must allow everyone to play.
So was TSL because they did not allow Korean progamers.
See how stupid your arguments are?
First of all, i am pretty sure there are differences between female and male brain. Whether it hinders or aids them in playing Starcraft, I dont know. But feel free to post your research paper showing that they are equal and they judge everything in the same way. Keep in mind that for the longest time, they separate female chess from male chess.
Secondly, as Nazgul pointed out, this is about building a community. If these females want to play against other females then what's wrong. Just like the Nordics want to have their own Inhouse Cup.
I'm sorry but your whole Nordic example doesn't at all apply. A cup based on nationality is pretty well accepted. Most countries in the world have semi-national and national leagues.
I wasn't saying that it is overtly sexist. I'm just saying it is something we should consider. Can you not at least admit that? Meet me halfway here man.
We separate men and women from each other in competition because of physical differences. We don't exclude women from universities where people compete intellectually, nor do we exclude them from intellectual competitions e.g. Math bowl, spell bowl, trivia contests... you know, things that have no physical component.
Doing so would be absurd. So it is really quite fair to make the comparison here, and ask why we feel the need to separate women from men in SC2. I understand there are societal gender differences at work, and women play videogames a lot less than men do, but at a competitive level this shouldn't matter.
why we need to separate them? that's not the point.
Why it's ok to give them their own media coverage, and why its a good thing that they can have their own competitions... that's the argument... let me try to spell this out for you as clearly and simply as possible, since it seems you are having difficulty...
It's good for the SC2 esport in general - such a low number of females play, that giving them their own media coverage may help to spur other females to start playing themselves, otherwise all they see is a male dominated sport in which they have no urge to take part in themselves. THIS IS THE REASON IT DOES MATTER AT THE COMPETITIVE LEVEL. The chances of seeing girls at the same level of men is only going to increase if media coverage is given to them.
The amount of males to females is HUGELY disproportionate - with such a larger player base, its only natural the best of the best males are playing the game, and dominating. meanwhile the chances of a female coming out of the woodwork who is able to compete with them is insanely slim. Without giving some special media coverage to the female side, we would pretty much otherwise hear nothing about them... all for the sake of not being sexist or some bullshit... (more for the sake of keeping sc2 a boys club)
Starcraft is not a purely mental sport, there are physical aspects to it, comparing it to math bowls is ridiculous. The kinds of decision making, tactics, reaction times... I'm not saying girls are naturally worse, or who knows maybe naturally better, but to say that there is no reason to be allowed to play in their own leagues makes no sense...
Physical aspects? Like "tactics" and "decision making"?
thanks for picking out one line of my post to critique. I didn't mean to link that to physical aspects, I should have realized someone as dense as you wouldn't have been able to connect physical aspects to what you are doing with your hands while playing sc2.... Sorry for the bad writing.
Apology accepted. Have a good night.
EDIT: Also thanks for the interview! I sort of forgot it was translated because she said she lived in Canada for so long but I just now re-read her answers.
On November 10 2010 16:44 pinke wrote: I realized I wrote a bit of an essay so I put it in a spoiler to save some grief, but if you want to see my female opinion on the Linda/female gaming hate, do read.
Have you noticed that anyone who is bashing on pikachu is a male? If you don't want to hear about a girl until she places in GSL, then go pay attention to GSL and when a female places, you'll know about her. Why does it bother you that there are female tournaments? You have no idea what it's like to be a female in a male dominated area, whether it's gaming, academics, a career, or even society in general. I really hope there will be a day when female tournaments become moot and we can all compete on equal ground, but that day's not today. Female tournaments let girls know we're not alone and we should keep on keeping on. It's very intimidating to enter the world of gaming when it's considered something "for boys," so if you're into it, you must be a tom boy, or not girly. It's very encouraging to see someone like Linda who is very good at the game but clearly still in touch with her feminine side. I for one, really enjoy the whimsical nature of the interview. I can relate to that. It's fun. Video games should be fun.
For some reason, guys are convinced that any girl into gaming is just there for the attention. I really enjoy SC. I like playing, I like watching, I like going to tournaments, but it's not fun to feel like an alien in these places, and it's really upsetting when everyone just assumes you're there for attention, or tries to discredit you just because you're attractive. Linda Liao is a good player, she's not just getting attention because she's hot. If she were ugly, instead of all of the "omg she's hot" comments, it would be "wow, she's so ugly" and instead of saying she's receiving attention for being attractive, you'd say she was only good at SC because she's ugly so she sits at home and practices all day.
Do you know there have actually been studies saying attractive people are less confident? Human beings are naturally self conscious of their looks, whether they're considered attractive by others or not and everyone has experienced the phenomenon of a beautiful girl thinking she's fat or ugly. So, someone considered unattractive, is self conscious of their looks as well as their general competence but lets say they do really well on a project, their peers or superiors inform them of such and they believe it. They think they worked really hard, and it showed. Someone considered attractive, though, is still concerned about their looks but now receives positive feedback on a project, but instead of thinking, I worked hard, they think those people are only complimenting the attractive person because they are attracted to him or her.
Either way, if you don't like it, go away! go Pikachu! Linda fighting, yay!
Agree 100%. Personally I think these threads are super awkward because the majority of the internet (who also coincidentally are male) end up internet white-knighting or talking about females as if they were some sort of scientific anomaly... >_>.
On November 10 2010 16:54 pinke wrote: I think it's quite sad that every thread that pertains to women in gaming ends up as one of these arguments!
I agree- I find it frustrating that these threads end up telling girls how they should or should not be playing. Why the hell we feel the need to tell women how they are being sexist against themselves, I don't know.
On November 10 2010 16:44 pinke wrote: I realized I wrote a bit of an essay so I put it in a spoiler to save some grief, but if you want to see my female opinion on the Linda/female gaming hate, do read.
Have you noticed that anyone who is bashing on pikachu is a male? If you don't want to hear about a girl until she places in GSL, then go pay attention to GSL and when a female places, you'll know about her. Why does it bother you that there are female tournaments? You have no idea what it's like to be a female in a male dominated area, whether it's gaming, academics, a career, or even society in general. I really hope there will be a day when female tournaments become moot and we can all compete on equal ground, but that day's not today. Female tournaments let girls know we're not alone and we should keep on keeping on. It's very intimidating to enter the world of gaming when it's considered something "for boys," so if you're into it, you must be a tom boy, or not girly. It's very encouraging to see someone like Linda who is very good at the game but clearly still in touch with her feminine side. I for one, really enjoy the whimsical nature of the interview. I can relate to that. It's fun. Video games should be fun.
For some reason, guys are convinced that any girl into gaming is just there for the attention. I really enjoy SC. I like playing, I like watching, I like going to tournaments, but it's not fun to feel like an alien in these places, and it's really upsetting when everyone just assumes you're there for attention, or tries to discredit you just because you're attractive. Linda Liao is a good player, she's not just getting attention because she's hot. If she were ugly, instead of all of the "omg she's hot" comments, it would be "wow, she's so ugly" and instead of saying she's receiving attention for being attractive, you'd say she was only good at SC because she's ugly so she sits at home and practices all day.
Do you know there have actually been studies saying attractive people are less confident? Human beings are naturally self conscious of their looks, whether they're considered attractive by others or not and everyone has experienced the phenomenon of a beautiful girl thinking she's fat or ugly. So, someone considered unattractive, is self conscious of their looks as well as their general competence but lets say they do really well on a project, their peers or superiors inform them of such and they believe it. They think they worked really hard, and it showed. Someone considered attractive, though, is still concerned about their looks but now receives positive feedback on a project, but instead of thinking, I worked hard, they think those people are only complimenting the attractive person because they are attracted to him or her.
Either way, if you don't like it, go away! go Pikachu! Linda fighting, yay!
Amen! Thank you, finally a voice of reason. Some of the comments on here are so incredibly rediculous. Anatomically, yes, there might not be any difference between male and females ability in gaming, but its more of a social phenomanom. The gaming seen is absolutely DOMINATED by males, and the fact that some of you just want to ignore this and call it a nonfactor just astounds me, especially because this is such a good developement for the entire StarCraft community, yes, YOUR community. This post said it exactly right: "We all hope there is a day when a female gamer, even a female gamer who is an actress/singer/model is good at StarCraft is not big news, and that the distribution of males and females in gaming is equal, and that society feels it is normal for girls to play competitive video games as much as males. Yes, we hope for that day, but that day is not here yet!"
On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote: Ehhh...I kinda feel like...who cares? There are much better players than her and it's silly to get worked up over a girl just because she plays Starcraft. Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable and I see no immediate reason why I would prefer her over someone more outgoing and accomplished.
Silly? Who cares? How about people who actually hope that the StarCraft/eSports culture can really grow outside of Korea! How would you like to be able to talk with your female friends about the Marine micro or the TLO's match last night? Females taking an interest in a game that is dominated by males and generally considered to be a "guys game" is great no matter what the situation is.
As far as "more outgoing and accomplished" and don't think you know what you're talking about. Is working full time acting in popular TV series, releasing several albums, being an MTV VJ, modeling, and emceeing for major international events not accomplished or outgoing enough for you? The fact that she finds time enough between ALL of that to practice StarCraft enough to be as good as she is should amaze you, I know it does me.
On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote: Ehhh...I kinda feel like...who cares? There are much better players than her and it's silly to get worked up over a girl just because she plays Starcraft. Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable and I see no immediate reason why I would prefer her over someone more outgoing and accomplished.
Silly? Who cares? How about people who actually hope that the StarCraft/eSports culture can really grow outside of Korea! How would you like to be able to talk with your female friends about the Marine micro or the TLO's match last night? Females taking an interest in a game that is dominated by males and generally considered to be a "guys game" is great no matter what the situation is.
As far as "more outgoing and accomplished" and don't think you know what you're talking about. Is working full time acting in popular TV series, releasing several albums, being an MTV VJ, modeling, and emceeing for major international events not accomplished or outgoing enough for you? The fact that she finds time enough between ALL of that to practice StarCraft enough to be as good as she is should amaze you, I know it does me.
but but but... there is a girl in my internets...
/s
It's not like this was posted because she made it to diamond league or something.... she won a legitimate tournament. It's hard to believe there is so much anti women sentiment on here...
Someone should really make a thread to discuss female only tournaments because it's getting out of control (and topic). Seems like e-sports won't be female friendly in the near future BECAUSE of the male dominant community. I know I wouldn't feel very well after reading through the whole thread.
Nice interview, though. Hope there is tougher competition in the upcomming tournaments.
Well I really enjoyed the interview and it's nice to see more female gamers (celebrities; even better heh).
But damn I'm getting so sick of the female gaming debate that always arise following stuff like this. If you don't like it, don't read or watch it. Things and players like these are only good for the expanding of gaming and e-sports. Diversity is bliss.
On November 10 2010 16:54 pinke wrote: I think it's quite sad that every thread that pertains to women in gaming ends up as one of these arguments!
To be fair, it's every thread that pertains to female-only tournaments, not female gamers in general.
Which is of course leads to these huge pointless arguments because some people are offended by the idea that women are made to compete in separate tournaments, as if they weren't as capable as men.
If that was actually the case, they'd be rightly offended. But of course it's not, this is about building community, not relegating all women to their own special league. Women are free to enter MLG or GSL or whatever tournament they choose.
I could make a Starcraft 2 tournament for people named Steve, to promote camaraderie between Steves of all nations. Does this mean people named Steve are prejudged as inherently poor players? Of course not.
And of course gaming is male-dominated, so the community-building is far more necessary. As is amply proven by this or any other gaming forum, where a sizable amount of posters respond to any sight or mention of a female with "oh my god, tits and videogames".
On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote: Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable
Are you like 14?
I agree with this guy, but this comment may not apply depending on culture. In SG very few girls play worthwhile games, instead wasting time on mindless nonsense like maplestory and some dancing game that involves arrow keys. Correspondingly the girls who play these games are unintelligent and bimbotic, so yeah...
On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote: Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable
Are you like 14?
I agree with this guy, but this comment may not apply depending on culture. In SG very few girls play worthwhile games, instead wasting time on mindless nonsense like maplestory and some dancing game that involves arrow keys. Correspondingly the girls who play these games are unintelligent and bimbotic, so yeah...
On November 10 2010 16:44 pinke wrote: I realized I wrote a bit of an essay so I put it in a spoiler to save some grief, but if you want to see my female opinion on the Linda/female gaming hate, do read.
Have you noticed that anyone who is bashing on pikachu is a male? If you don't want to hear about a girl until she places in GSL, then go pay attention to GSL and when a female places, you'll know about her. Why does it bother you that there are female tournaments? You have no idea what it's like to be a female in a male dominated area, whether it's gaming, academics, a career, or even society in general. I really hope there will be a day when female tournaments become moot and we can all compete on equal ground, but that day's not today. Female tournaments let girls know we're not alone and we should keep on keeping on. It's very intimidating to enter the world of gaming when it's considered something "for boys," so if you're into it, you must be a tom boy, or not girly. It's very encouraging to see someone like Linda who is very good at the game but clearly still in touch with her feminine side. I for one, really enjoy the whimsical nature of the interview. I can relate to that. It's fun. Video games should be fun.
For some reason, guys are convinced that any girl into gaming is just there for the attention. I really enjoy SC. I like playing, I like watching, I like going to tournaments, but it's not fun to feel like an alien in these places, and it's really upsetting when everyone just assumes you're there for attention, or tries to discredit you just because you're attractive. Linda Liao is a good player, she's not just getting attention because she's hot. If she were ugly, instead of all of the "omg she's hot" comments, it would be "wow, she's so ugly" and instead of saying she's receiving attention for being attractive, you'd say she was only good at SC because she's ugly so she sits at home and practices all day.
Do you know there have actually been studies saying attractive people are less confident? Human beings are naturally self conscious of their looks, whether they're considered attractive by others or not and everyone has experienced the phenomenon of a beautiful girl thinking she's fat or ugly. So, someone considered unattractive, is self conscious of their looks as well as their general competence but lets say they do really well on a project, their peers or superiors inform them of such and they believe it. They think they worked really hard, and it showed. Someone considered attractive, though, is still concerned about their looks but now receives positive feedback on a project, but instead of thinking, I worked hard, they think those people are only complimenting the attractive person because they are attracted to him or her.
Either way, if you don't like it, go away! go Pikachu! Linda fighting, yay!
You are this thread's saving grace. Thank you for this insightful post! I perfectly agree.
This thread has some ridiculously stupid replies in it. I personally think it's great to see women getting involved with Starcraft and I hope to see Pikachu at the GSL.
To the people whining about it being a female only competition. You do realise TSL excluded Koreans right? You do realise MLG also excludes Koreans? I'm not sure about IEM.
I always thought those rules were far more silly than having a female league.
I choose you Pikachu :D
On November 10 2010 16:44 pinke wrote: Either way, if you don't like it, go away!
Let me draw an example from the last Super Street Fighter 4 EVO tournament. It's exactly because there's a separate female tournament, all the girls who could have fought in the main tournament joined it instead, it separates the competition when there's simply no need to. The girls end up with less prestigious title, less reward, and limited chances at more winnings.
It's not like they are bad at the game too, they are GOOD. They can placed themselves easily amongst the top 25, but they got placed in the female tournament where there is such a smaller pool, and the result is a small 8 player tournament that is a whole lot of weird during EVO. Now nobody even heard of those girls any more, and everyone regarded that experiment as a fail. This is why I don't like separating the tournament.
In my opinion, girls should be encouraged to join any tournaments. MVP awards can then be separated into genders and given out freely, like "Outstanding Female Commander" or "Lady of the tournament" alongside the normal guy's version. This not only give incentive for gals to participate in any big tournaments, but also ranked them accordingly in the big pool of competitors as well as acknowledgement of their skill in gaming. Sponsors can also scout out potential female players and know their performance without any separation of pools to cloud their judgement.
Anyway, hope to see Linda progress far and participate in GSL/Blizz Invitational soon. In fact I hope to see more girls participate in supposedly "male-dominated" tournaments and kicking guy's ass. People who think girls needs pampering and need "their own tournaments for encouragement" should be the ones to "get over it".
On November 10 2010 18:36 PandaPolice wrote: Let me draw an example from the last Super Street Fighter 4 EVO tournament. It's exactly because there's a separate female tournament, all the girls who could have fought in the main tournament joined it instead, it separates the competition when there's simply no need to. The girls end up with less prestigious title, less reward, and limited chances at more winnings.
It's not like they are bad at the game too, they are GOOD. They can placed themselves easily amongst the top 25, but they got placed in the female tournament where there is such a smaller pool, and the result is a small 8 player tournament that is a whole lot of weird during EVO. Now nobody even heard of those girls any more, and everyone regarded that experiment as a fail. This is why I don't like separating the tournament.
In my opinion, girls should be encouraged to join any tournaments. MVP awards can then be separated into genders and given out freely, like "Outstanding Female Commander" or "Lady of the tournament" alongside the normal guy's version. This not only give incentive for gals to participate in any big tournaments, but also ranked them accordingly in the big pool of competitors as well as acknowledgement of their skill in gaming. Sponsors can also scout out potential female players and know their performance without any separation of pools to cloud their judgement.
Anyway, hope to see Linda progress far and participate in GSL/Blizz Invitational soon. In fact I hope to see more girls participate in supposedly "male-dominated" tournaments and kicking guy's ass. People who think girls needs pampering and need "their own tournaments for encouragement" should be the ones to "get over it".
Yep unfortunately some people don't understand that separating gaming tourneys by gender does nothing to perpetuate the competitive aspect of gaming, it only holds it back.
And unfortunately some that don't understand that start throwing out personal attacks to anyone that does understand that.
A few decades ago in america it was also believed that women couldn't be as effective in the workplace as men.
If we had just agreed and accepted that we would be pretty silly, but progressive thinkers who were met with strong opposition slowly broke down such misconceptions. They were also called stupid, or ridiculous by people who didn't agree with them.
And yes... there were housewives that didn't see the big picture and personally preferred not having that equal shot at the corporate world, doesn't mean it was good for the long term.
Now obviously the social impact of female gaming tournaments is not to the degree of workplace equality, but there is a similar dynamic at play.
So many posts in this thread makes me sad, seriously, why do you take this argument into this thread?
It seems there cant be a single thread about females in SC2 without it going to hell.
On another note, nice interview! Good luck Linda, hope you keep enjoying SC2 and try your luck in some bigger tournaments in the future. And keep working/playing on the female SC2 community and tournaments, I am absolutely certain other females players appreciate it and that is all that should matter.
On November 10 2010 18:44 robertdinh wrote: Yep unfortunately some people don't understand that separating gaming tourneys by gender does nothing to perpetuate the competitive aspect of gaming, it only holds it back.
And unfortunately some that don't understand that start throwing out personal attacks to anyone that does understand that.
A few decades ago in america it was also believed that women couldn't be as effective in the workplace as men.
If we had just agreed and accepted that we would be pretty silly, but progressive thinkers who were met with strong opposition slowly broke down such misconceptions. They were also called stupid, or ridiculous by people who didn't agree with them.
And yes... there were housewives that didn't see the big picture and personally preferred not having that equal shot at the corporate world, doesn't mean it was good for the long term.
Now obviously the social impact of female gaming tournaments is not to the degree of workplace equality, but there is a similar dynamic at play.
Oh for heaven's sake. No-one's saying they shouldn't compete in the GSL. The tournaments are open and I'd more than happy to see them try out for the other tournaments. The main issue is why you and yours feel the need to crap on these threads by saying women shouldn't have the option to play in a tournament together. Do you also feel the need to crash a girls-only parties?
Also, are you seriously paralleling the current RTS gamer girls to myopic house wives? The women that are actually pioneers in the RTS gaming world that has been traditionally male only? Among games, RTS in particular has seen very little women players.
I feel like you're trying to build the roof before the foundation- we don't have tens of thousands of women trying to break into these tournaments as top-notch gamers. We're still at the recruitment stage. The progressives actually had a critical mass of women wanting to work- we don't have that yet.
As long as we're discussing progressive thinkers- consider this initiative from the same era- affirmative action. Then consider, this was just a game and these women were having fun. But for some reason you feel the need to tell these pioneers to stop having fun and that they're somehow being sexist against themselves.
Seems like most posters don't realise this and it's not really mentioned in the interview, but Linda Liao is a famous singer/actor and the host of a show on chinese MTV, amongst other things.
On November 10 2010 18:36 PandaPolice wrote: Let me draw an example from the last Super Street Fighter 4 EVO tournament. It's exactly because there's a separate female tournament, all the girls who could have fought in the main tournament joined it instead, it separates the competition when there's simply no need to. The girls end up with less prestigious title, less reward, and limited chances at more winnings.
It's not like they are bad at the game too, they are GOOD. They can placed themselves easily amongst the top 25, but they got placed in the female tournament where there is such a smaller pool, and the result is a small 8 player tournament that is a whole lot of weird during EVO. Now nobody even heard of those girls any more, and everyone regarded that experiment as a fail. This is why I don't like separating the tournament.
What stopped the girls from joining the main tournament? Were they not allowed? Why couldn't they join both?
In my opinion, girls should be encouraged to join any tournaments. MVP awards can then be separated into genders and given out freely, like "Outstanding Female Commander" or "Lady of the tournament" alongside the normal guy's version. This not only give incentive for gals to participate in any big tournaments, but also ranked them accordingly in the big pool of competitors as well as acknowledgement of their skill in gaming. Sponsors can also scout out potential female players and know their performance without any separation of pools to cloud their judgement.
This actually sounds a lot more sexist than having an all-female tournament...what if a girl wins? We give an "Outstanding Male Commander" award to the best dude?
On November 10 2010 18:36 PandaPolice wrote: Let me draw an example from the last Super Street Fighter 4 EVO tournament. It's exactly because there's a separate female tournament, all the girls who could have fought in the main tournament joined it instead, it separates the competition when there's simply no need to. The girls end up with less prestigious title, less reward, and limited chances at more winnings.
It's not like they are bad at the game too, they are GOOD. They can placed themselves easily amongst the top 25, but they got placed in the female tournament where there is such a smaller pool, and the result is a small 8 player tournament that is a whole lot of weird during EVO. Now nobody even heard of those girls any more, and everyone regarded that experiment as a fail. This is why I don't like separating the tournament.
What stopped the girls from joining the main tournament? Were they not allowed? Why couldn't they join both?
In my opinion, girls should be encouraged to join any tournaments. MVP awards can then be separated into genders and given out freely, like "Outstanding Female Commander" or "Lady of the tournament" alongside the normal guy's version. This not only give incentive for gals to participate in any big tournaments, but also ranked them accordingly in the big pool of competitors as well as acknowledgement of their skill in gaming. Sponsors can also scout out potential female players and know their performance without any separation of pools to cloud their judgement.
This actually sounds a lot more sexist than having an all-female tournament...what if a girl wins? We give an "Outstanding Male Commander" award to the best dude?
Also congrats Linda!
1) I have no idea why they didn't join both. Did they perhaps feel the existence of a female only tournament automatically excludes females from the main tourny? Did they tried to apply to the main tourny and got placed in the female only tournament? I have no idea, I only saw the result, and it's sad.
2) I am referring to those prizes as MVP-type prizes, which are not always given to player(s) who wins, sometimes it's given to the player(s) who shown the most improvements, performed the most dramatic comeback, etc. You know, sub categories, so combine the competition, but acknowledge outstanding skill performance for those who displays it.
e.g MVP (male category) MVP (female category) These are given out no matter who the final winner is. I really don't know how much simpler I can explain it.
Edit: Anyway last post, don't wanna further derail the thread. Again, big grats to Linda!
Interesting interview! I dont know why I found that more interesting than usual. Is it because it's a cute girl... Oh no I am becoming one of those TL creeps you hear about on the Taiwanese news and feminist blogs!
Seriously though, great to see sc2 growing. Maybe she can even help it spread more to females.
On November 10 2010 06:18 simme123 wrote: To be honest I just don't see what's so remarkable she's a girl and she plays starcraft .. what am I missing here?
I have to side with this overall sentiment. Not to mention those interview answers were asinine. Most of the time they either lacked any real answer, gave a joke answer or just said something was cute.
Asinine? Really? Sexism really is a problem around here.
There was a sc2 tourney. She won it. Why wouldn't she get recognition? Good for her. No one makes fun of the women 100 meter runners in the Olympics because they're slower than the men. They're still faster than you'll ever be. And she probably is too.
edit: Her answers were fun instead of robotic. Isn't that what everyone always wants around here? Personality? Look inwardly man, you got issues if you had a problem with that interview.
Look at it this way (all of you who are insulted by this interview) :
There are at least 31 girls (number of participants, right?) who thought that a female only tournament was such a good idea that they signed up. It also seems that many of those girls had fun during the tournament. Some of those girls are going to join the next tournament as well. So we have (small) number of girls which all agree that a female only tournament is a fun thing to do and a company (ESL) providing them with the opportunity to do what they like. Where's the problem?
It doesn't really matter whether female tournaments are sexist or not (and keep in mind that there are very few absolute truths). So as long as we remember that everyone are entitled to their own opinion, let's just acknowledge that there are at least 31 persons who chose for themselves to participate in a female-only tournament. It might be that the other 3 billion females in the world boycotted it on grounds of being sexist, but we have at least 31 persons who didn't and I certainly don't mind them having a good time together, nor do I feel that I have any say in how ESL should spend their money, as I'm not a shareholder and they're free to do whatever they like.
Moreover, I don't find any moral implications in interviewing someone who won a tournament and wasn't the best in the world. Even TeamLiquid has had interviews with people who were not best, nor did they even win a tournament. There's been interviews with winners from the Ro8 of GSL, and not surprisingly, seven of those are going to be losers by the time of next saturday. BoxerR (The Emperor) has had several interviews and he hasn't won anything in SC2.
So where's the problem? Is it a problem that: -A specific group of people get together and do something they like? -That a company does something for only the benefit of a specific group of people instead of everyone? -That a specific group of people are allowed to do something which, while it does not involve you in any way, you do not agree with? -That a group which has a different view than yourself, gets media attention? -That someone, who is not the best in the world, among the top10 in the world, top100, top any arbitrary number, is interviewed or gets media attention?
The way I see it, that's what this amounts to. Please try to pinpoint exactly where you feel you or anyone have been wronged.
You are free to think that a female only tournament is sexist and you are free to boycott it. Other people are free to think that a female only tournament is not sexist and they are free to participate in it. It doesn't really factor into the topic of this thread, which is about an interview with a winner of a tournament.
So, back on topic: Congratulations, Pikachu! Nice interview
Let me draw an example from the last Super Street Fighter 4 EVO tournament. It's exactly because there's a separate female tournament, all the girls who could have fought in the main tournament joined it instead, it separates the competition when there's simply no need to. The girls end up with less prestigious title, less reward, and limited chances at more winnings.
It's not like they are bad at the game too, they are GOOD. They can placed themselves easily amongst the top 25, but they got placed in the female tournament where there is such a smaller pool, and the result is a small 8 player tournament that is a whole lot of weird during EVO. Now nobody even heard of those girls any more, and everyone regarded that experiment as a fail. This is why I don't like separating the tournament.
In my opinion, girls should be encouraged to join any tournaments. MVP awards can then be separated into genders and given out freely, like "Outstanding Female Commander" or "Lady of the tournament" alongside the normal guy's version. This not only give incentive for gals to participate in any big tournaments, but also ranked them accordingly in the big pool of competitors as well as acknowledgement of their skill in gaming. Sponsors can also scout out potential female players and know their performance without any separation of pools to cloud their judgement.
Anyway, hope to see Linda progress far and participate in GSL/Blizz Invitational soon. In fact I hope to see more girls participate in supposedly "male-dominated" tournaments and kicking guy's ass. People who think girls needs pampering and need "their own tournaments for encouragement" should be the ones to "get over it"
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The problem with that tournament was that if you were in the female tournament, you weren't allowed in the male one. In this case, if you play in the female tournament, you can still play in any other SC tournament. The female only tournament acts as supplemental.
And of course girls should be encouraged to join any tournament, but consider, maybe a female is good enough to win or at least make an impact MLG or GSL tournament, however, it can be incredibly intimidating to enter. Now she sees another tournament that's only female, smaller scale, much less intimidating. She participates, realizes she's better than she thought, she enjoys the thrill of tournaments and it's something she'd like to pursue and now maybe she has the confidence to take part in these other tournaments.
The thread has devolved into something on the lines of insecure guys coming here to cry about how a female has more success than them in gaming and most likely in life as well. Seriously wipe your tears, not that big of a deal.
Q: If you were a StarCraft II unit, which one would it be? A: I think I probably relate myself as a sentry summoned hallucinated colossi, can look intimidating at times but really no harm
Personally I think that ever since we have had "womens liberation" since the 60s there is no more reason to have separate competitions for the two genders ... unless the activists are wrong and men and women arent "equal" in some way.
The whole tragedy of womens equality is that the activists actually taught the females of our species to behave like men to get equal rights. This is sooo illogical and it should have been the men who change in their attitude instead, but since both genders are supposed to be equal that should be true for competitions as well. Any of those which is gender specific should be considered bad by female rights activists ... especially a competition of "mental skills" should be equally hard for both men and women.
We dont need special cups for spanish speakers only, or chinese, or black people or ... and in the same way we do not need special competitions for women!
Now I can put down my pen which has been dipped in "condensed heavy sarcasm" to write this post.
On November 11 2010 04:37 Rabiator wrote: Personally I think that ever since we have had "womens liberation" since the 60s there is no more reason to have separate competitions for the two genders ... unless the activists are wrong and men and women arent "equal" in some way.
The whole tragedy of womens equality is that the activists actually taught the females of our species to behave like men to get equal rights. This is sooo illogical and it should have been the men who change in their attitude instead, but since both genders are supposed to be equal that should be true for competitions as well. Any of those which is gender specific should be considered bad by female rights activists ... especially a competition of "mental skills" should be equally hard for both men and women.
We dont need special cups for spanish speakers only, or chinese, or black people or ... and in the same way we do not need special competitions for women!
Now I can put down my pen which has been dipped in "condensed heavy sarcasm" to write this post.
There's a lot of contradiction with the "men and women are exactly the same" platitudes spouted by the modern multicultural pc police. There's plenty of anecdotal as well as scientific evidence to suggest that we are very different.
Regardless, I don't mind separate leagues. The purpose is not solely for more balanced competition, but simply to reach out to a wider audience. Nothing wrong with that. If you're a 12 year old asian girl, which league is likely to be more appealing?
The reason we don't have special leagues for different ethnicities is because there's a hell of a lot more difference between men and women of the same race than there is between two people of the same gender and different ethnicities.
On November 11 2010 04:50 Drowsy wrote: Regardless, I don't mind separate leagues. The purpose is not solely for more balanced competition, but simply to reach out to a wider audience. Nothing wrong with that. If you're a 12 year old asian girl, which league is likely to be more appealing?
If these leagues are going to be full of 12 year old asian girls, I'm going to go ahead and say there will probably be some problems. And that we should definitely have these leagues.
On November 10 2010 20:12 PH wrote: Wow. Chill as fuck interview, lol.
Definitely made me a fan.
Yea, me too. It was really long and had a lot to say.
The only parts I found myself wanting more were about the strategic aspects. They really left me feeling like she either doesn't play at a very deep level or can't articulate it. I didn't mind that too much because I find English-speaking players, particularly Americans, tend to explain their tactics as if the game is 100 times more complicated than it is.
Ugh I could go on, I just feel the people that think this is a tainted win, or its sexist or w/e are the people holding back the female gamers.
Its like a child growing up in a sport. The kid wins his little league baseball game, you dont tell him "but you didnt beat the yankees". No you congratulate him, and watch him get better. Next thing you know he is winning in HS, then college, then the pros. Its a mile marker.
I like the interview, and quite frankly, I do wish more questions were like the zerg one, it really brings top gamers back down into that, they started playing this game because they liked the game.
On November 11 2010 04:50 Drowsy wrote: Regardless, I don't mind separate leagues. The purpose is not solely for more balanced competition, but simply to reach out to a wider audience. Nothing wrong with that. If you're a 12 year old asian girl, which league is likely to be more appealing?
If these leagues are going to be full of 12 year old asian girls, I'm going to go ahead and say there will probably be some problems. And that we should definitely have these leagues.
She is not only a girls who know the how to play and rank in diamond (which is way better than most of the noob) And she is a entertainment celebrity, has appear in TV, drama, music video and have some album release.
She might not be the best player in diamond, but if you watch replay. at least she know what it build order.
On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote: Ehhh...I kinda feel like...who cares? There are much better players than her and it's silly to get worked up over a girl just because she plays Starcraft. Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable and I see no immediate reason why I would prefer her over someone more outgoing and accomplished.
yah, I am completely confused by his statement... seriously? Why wouldn't people get worked up about a female SC2 player? It's an uncommon thing... isn't that interesting in itself? I am a female gamer and I consider myself better than "less than desirable", and I'm not talking about the way I look... I go to school, work, and play mass amounts of video games. Pikachu goes to school, works, plays video games AND wins tournaments, how are either of these situations not considered accomplished? idk...she's seems pretty outgoing from her interview. Your post seems pretty ignorant.
On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote: Ehhh...I kinda feel like...who cares? There are much better players than her and it's silly to get worked up over a girl just because she plays Starcraft. Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable and I see no immediate reason why I would prefer her over someone more outgoing and accomplished.
yah, I am completely confused by his statement... seriously? Why wouldn't people get worked up about a female SC2 player? It's an uncommon thing... isn't that interesting in itself? I am a female gamer and I consider myself better than "less than desirable", and I'm not talking about the way I look... I go to school, work, and play mass amounts of video games. Pikachu goes to school, works, plays video games AND wins tournaments, how are either of these situations not considered accomplished? idk...she's seems pretty outgoing from her interview. Your post seems pretty ignorant.
I second that. Winning a tournament (regardless of gender) is a feat, but working as a celebrity at the same time? How the hell can she find time to do it all? Very impressive indeed. My work schedule is probably not even half as intensive as hers, and I struggle in very, very low diamond. A multi talented young woman!
i think its not the fact that shes a girl that amazes me, but the fact that she was in show biz BEFORE her starcraft success really says something about her personality..
hey, i can do what billions only dream of doing for a living, or i can play starcraft?
just asking, i know i should probs not bump this but... where is she now? she hasn't been in the scene for ages and i remember she joined team razer... she gone back to modelling? or something?
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