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On November 10 2010 16:44 pinke wrote:I realized I wrote a bit of an essay so I put it in a spoiler to save some grief, but if you want to see my female opinion on the Linda/female gaming hate, do read. + Show Spoiler +Have you noticed that anyone who is bashing on pikachu is a male? If you don't want to hear about a girl until she places in GSL, then go pay attention to GSL and when a female places, you'll know about her. Why does it bother you that there are female tournaments? You have no idea what it's like to be a female in a male dominated area, whether it's gaming, academics, a career, or even society in general. I really hope there will be a day when female tournaments become moot and we can all compete on equal ground, but that day's not today. Female tournaments let girls know we're not alone and we should keep on keeping on. It's very intimidating to enter the world of gaming when it's considered something "for boys," so if you're into it, you must be a tom boy, or not girly. It's very encouraging to see someone like Linda who is very good at the game but clearly still in touch with her feminine side. I for one, really enjoy the whimsical nature of the interview. I can relate to that. It's fun. Video games should be fun.
For some reason, guys are convinced that any girl into gaming is just there for the attention. I really enjoy SC. I like playing, I like watching, I like going to tournaments, but it's not fun to feel like an alien in these places, and it's really upsetting when everyone just assumes you're there for attention, or tries to discredit you just because you're attractive. Linda Liao is a good player, she's not just getting attention because she's hot. If she were ugly, instead of all of the "omg she's hot" comments, it would be "wow, she's so ugly" and instead of saying she's receiving attention for being attractive, you'd say she was only good at SC because she's ugly so she sits at home and practices all day.
Do you know there have actually been studies saying attractive people are less confident? Human beings are naturally self conscious of their looks, whether they're considered attractive by others or not and everyone has experienced the phenomenon of a beautiful girl thinking she's fat or ugly. So, someone considered unattractive, is self conscious of their looks as well as their general competence but lets say they do really well on a project, their peers or superiors inform them of such and they believe it. They think they worked really hard, and it showed. Someone considered attractive, though, is still concerned about their looks but now receives positive feedback on a project, but instead of thinking, I worked hard, they think those people are only complimenting the attractive person because they are attracted to him or her. Either way, if you don't like it, go away! go Pikachu! Linda fighting, yay!
Amen! Thank you, finally a voice of reason. Some of the comments on here are so incredibly rediculous. Anatomically, yes, there might not be any difference between male and females ability in gaming, but its more of a social phenomanom. The gaming seen is absolutely DOMINATED by males, and the fact that some of you just want to ignore this and call it a nonfactor just astounds me, especially because this is such a good developement for the entire StarCraft community, yes, YOUR community. This post said it exactly right: "We all hope there is a day when a female gamer, even a female gamer who is an actress/singer/model is good at StarCraft is not big news, and that the distribution of males and females in gaming is equal, and that society feels it is normal for girls to play competitive video games as much as males. Yes, we hope for that day, but that day is not here yet!"
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asian: check
dancer: check
plays starcraft: check
likes pokemon: check
i think im in love
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On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote:
Ehhh...I kinda feel like...who cares? There are much better players than her and it's silly to get worked up over a girl just because she plays Starcraft. Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable and I see no immediate reason why I would prefer her over someone more outgoing and accomplished.
Silly? Who cares? How about people who actually hope that the StarCraft/eSports culture can really grow outside of Korea! How would you like to be able to talk with your female friends about the Marine micro or the TLO's match last night? Females taking an interest in a game that is dominated by males and generally considered to be a "guys game" is great no matter what the situation is.
As far as "more outgoing and accomplished" and don't think you know what you're talking about. Is working full time acting in popular TV series, releasing several albums, being an MTV VJ, modeling, and emceeing for major international events not accomplished or outgoing enough for you? The fact that she finds time enough between ALL of that to practice StarCraft enough to be as good as she is should amaze you, I know it does me.
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On November 10 2010 17:11 Leolisk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote:
Ehhh...I kinda feel like...who cares? There are much better players than her and it's silly to get worked up over a girl just because she plays Starcraft. Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable and I see no immediate reason why I would prefer her over someone more outgoing and accomplished. Silly? Who cares? How about people who actually hope that the StarCraft/eSports culture can really grow outside of Korea! How would you like to be able to talk with your female friends about the Marine micro or the TLO's match last night? Females taking an interest in a game that is dominated by males and generally considered to be a "guys game" is great no matter what the situation is. As far as "more outgoing and accomplished" and don't think you know what you're talking about. Is working full time acting in popular TV series, releasing several albums, being an MTV VJ, modeling, and emceeing for major international events not accomplished or outgoing enough for you? The fact that she finds time enough between ALL of that to practice StarCraft enough to be as good as she is should amaze you, I know it does me.
but but but... there is a girl in my internets... 
/s
It's not like this was posted because she made it to diamond league or something.... she won a legitimate tournament. It's hard to believe there is so much anti women sentiment on here...
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On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote:
Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable
Are you like 14?
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Someone should really make a thread to discuss female only tournaments because it's getting out of control (and topic). Seems like e-sports won't be female friendly in the near future BECAUSE of the male dominant community. I know I wouldn't feel very well after reading through the whole thread.
Nice interview, though. Hope there is tougher competition in the upcomming tournaments.
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the interview answers are soooooo funny and cute!! ^_^
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Well I really enjoyed the interview and it's nice to see more female gamers (celebrities; even better heh).
But damn I'm getting so sick of the female gaming debate that always arise following stuff like this. If you don't like it, don't read or watch it. Things and players like these are only good for the expanding of gaming and e-sports. Diversity is bliss.
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On November 10 2010 16:54 pinke wrote:
I think it's quite sad that every thread that pertains to women in gaming ends up as one of these arguments!
To be fair, it's every thread that pertains to female-only tournaments, not female gamers in general.
Which is of course leads to these huge pointless arguments because some people are offended by the idea that women are made to compete in separate tournaments, as if they weren't as capable as men.
If that was actually the case, they'd be rightly offended. But of course it's not, this is about building community, not relegating all women to their own special league. Women are free to enter MLG or GSL or whatever tournament they choose.
I could make a Starcraft 2 tournament for people named Steve, to promote camaraderie between Steves of all nations. Does this mean people named Steve are prejudged as inherently poor players? Of course not.
And of course gaming is male-dominated, so the community-building is far more necessary. As is amply proven by this or any other gaming forum, where a sizable amount of posters respond to any sight or mention of a female with "oh my god, tits and videogames".
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On November 10 2010 17:16 kojinshugi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote:
Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable Are you like 14?
I agree with this guy, but this comment may not apply depending on culture. In SG very few girls play worthwhile games, instead wasting time on mindless nonsense like maplestory and some dancing game that involves arrow keys. Correspondingly the girls who play these games are unintelligent and bimbotic, so yeah...
This pikachu, on the other hand...
damnnnnnnn
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On November 10 2010 17:31 xiaofan wrote:
the interview answers are soooooo funny and cute!! ^_^
I know right +_+ !! I am in love.
Pikachu seems like a genuinely cool pokemon <3
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On November 10 2010 17:41 GenericTerranPlayer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2010 17:16 kojinshugi wrote:On November 10 2010 05:55 GildedAdonis wrote:
Most girls I know that play video games are far less than desirable Are you like 14? I agree with this guy, but this comment may not apply depending on culture. In SG very few girls play worthwhile games, instead wasting time on mindless nonsense like maplestory and some dancing game that involves arrow keys. Correspondingly the girls who play these games are unintelligent and bimbotic, so yeah... This pikachu, on the other hand... damnnnnnnn
My last gf played BW and SC2.
The majority are as you describe, though :|
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yay she plays on the imac like me haha.
On topic, She doesnt really ladder that much does she?
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On November 10 2010 16:44 pinke wrote:I realized I wrote a bit of an essay so I put it in a spoiler to save some grief, but if you want to see my female opinion on the Linda/female gaming hate, do read. + Show Spoiler +Have you noticed that anyone who is bashing on pikachu is a male? If you don't want to hear about a girl until she places in GSL, then go pay attention to GSL and when a female places, you'll know about her. Why does it bother you that there are female tournaments? You have no idea what it's like to be a female in a male dominated area, whether it's gaming, academics, a career, or even society in general. I really hope there will be a day when female tournaments become moot and we can all compete on equal ground, but that day's not today. Female tournaments let girls know we're not alone and we should keep on keeping on. It's very intimidating to enter the world of gaming when it's considered something "for boys," so if you're into it, you must be a tom boy, or not girly. It's very encouraging to see someone like Linda who is very good at the game but clearly still in touch with her feminine side. I for one, really enjoy the whimsical nature of the interview. I can relate to that. It's fun. Video games should be fun.
For some reason, guys are convinced that any girl into gaming is just there for the attention. I really enjoy SC. I like playing, I like watching, I like going to tournaments, but it's not fun to feel like an alien in these places, and it's really upsetting when everyone just assumes you're there for attention, or tries to discredit you just because you're attractive. Linda Liao is a good player, she's not just getting attention because she's hot. If she were ugly, instead of all of the "omg she's hot" comments, it would be "wow, she's so ugly" and instead of saying she's receiving attention for being attractive, you'd say she was only good at SC because she's ugly so she sits at home and practices all day.
Do you know there have actually been studies saying attractive people are less confident? Human beings are naturally self conscious of their looks, whether they're considered attractive by others or not and everyone has experienced the phenomenon of a beautiful girl thinking she's fat or ugly. So, someone considered unattractive, is self conscious of their looks as well as their general competence but lets say they do really well on a project, their peers or superiors inform them of such and they believe it. They think they worked really hard, and it showed. Someone considered attractive, though, is still concerned about their looks but now receives positive feedback on a project, but instead of thinking, I worked hard, they think those people are only complimenting the attractive person because they are attracted to him or her. Either way, if you don't like it, go away! go Pikachu! Linda fighting, yay!
You are this thread's saving grace. Thank you for this insightful post! I perfectly agree.
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On November 10 2010 17:45 EchoZ wrote:
yay she plays on the imac like me haha.
On topic, She doesnt really ladder that much does she?
Seems to play more 2v2 but I'd read that in an article previously anyway.
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This thread has some ridiculously stupid replies in it. I personally think it's great to see women getting involved with Starcraft and I hope to see Pikachu at the GSL.
To the people whining about it being a female only competition. You do realise TSL excluded Koreans right? You do realise MLG also excludes Koreans? I'm not sure about IEM.
I always thought those rules were far more silly than having a female league.
I choose you Pikachu :D
On November 10 2010 16:44 pinke wrote:
Either way, if you don't like it, go away!
Indeed.
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Let me draw an example from the last Super Street Fighter 4 EVO tournament. It's exactly because there's a separate female tournament, all the girls who could have fought in the main tournament joined it instead, it separates the competition when there's simply no need to. The girls end up with less prestigious title, less reward, and limited chances at more winnings.
It's not like they are bad at the game too, they are GOOD. They can placed themselves easily amongst the top 25, but they got placed in the female tournament where there is such a smaller pool, and the result is a small 8 player tournament that is a whole lot of weird during EVO. Now nobody even heard of those girls any more, and everyone regarded that experiment as a fail. This is why I don't like separating the tournament.
In my opinion, girls should be encouraged to join any tournaments. MVP awards can then be separated into genders and given out freely, like "Outstanding Female Commander" or "Lady of the tournament" alongside the normal guy's version. This not only give incentive for gals to participate in any big tournaments, but also ranked them accordingly in the big pool of competitors as well as acknowledgement of their skill in gaming. Sponsors can also scout out potential female players and know their performance without any separation of pools to cloud their judgement.
Anyway, hope to see Linda progress far and participate in GSL/Blizz Invitational soon. In fact I hope to see more girls participate in supposedly "male-dominated" tournaments and kicking guy's ass. People who think girls needs pampering and need "their own tournaments for encouragement" should be the ones to "get over it".
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On November 10 2010 18:36 PandaPolice wrote:
Let me draw an example from the last Super Street Fighter 4 EVO tournament. It's exactly because there's a separate female tournament, all the girls who could have fought in the main tournament joined it instead, it separates the competition when there's simply no need to. The girls end up with less prestigious title, less reward, and limited chances at more winnings.
It's not like they are bad at the game too, they are GOOD. They can placed themselves easily amongst the top 25, but they got placed in the female tournament where there is such a smaller pool, and the result is a small 8 player tournament that is a whole lot of weird during EVO. Now nobody even heard of those girls any more, and everyone regarded that experiment as a fail. This is why I don't like separating the tournament.
In my opinion, girls should be encouraged to join any tournaments. MVP awards can then be separated into genders and given out freely, like "Outstanding Female Commander" or "Lady of the tournament" alongside the normal guy's version. This not only give incentive for gals to participate in any big tournaments, but also ranked them accordingly in the big pool of competitors as well as acknowledgement of their skill in gaming. Sponsors can also scout out potential female players and know their performance without any separation of pools to cloud their judgement.
Anyway, hope to see Linda progress far and participate in GSL/Blizz Invitational soon. In fact I hope to see more girls participate in supposedly "male-dominated" tournaments and kicking guy's ass. People who think girls needs pampering and need "their own tournaments for encouragement" should be the ones to "get over it".
Yep unfortunately some people don't understand that separating gaming tourneys by gender does nothing to perpetuate the competitive aspect of gaming, it only holds it back.
And unfortunately some that don't understand that start throwing out personal attacks to anyone that does understand that.
A few decades ago in america it was also believed that women couldn't be as effective in the workplace as men.
If we had just agreed and accepted that we would be pretty silly, but progressive thinkers who were met with strong opposition slowly broke down such misconceptions. They were also called stupid, or ridiculous by people who didn't agree with them.
And yes... there were housewives that didn't see the big picture and personally preferred not having that equal shot at the corporate world, doesn't mean it was good for the long term.
Now obviously the social impact of female gaming tournaments is not to the degree of workplace equality, but there is a similar dynamic at play.
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I hope we have more female tournies in the future. They will DEFINITELY help esports as a whole become more prominent media.
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So many posts in this thread makes me sad, seriously, why do you take this argument into this thread?
It seems there cant be a single thread about females in SC2 without it going to hell.
On another note, nice interview! Good luck Linda, hope you keep enjoying SC2 and try your luck in some bigger tournaments in the future. And keep working/playing on the female SC2 community and tournaments, I am absolutely certain other females players appreciate it and that is all that should matter.
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EPT
