|
So, i understand the point and value to spamming your APM at the early part of the game to warm your hands/fingers and thinking up. Im only a 5-0 Platinum zerg because i havnt felt ready to Ladder, but i can, for the most part roll over 1400-1500 Diamonds in custom games, random and practices. during the early stage, my APM Avg. is between 200-280 depending on the type of match and how much i care to win. But around the 10-15 minute mark when i actually need to pay attention and be precise with my Macro/Micro and stop straight spamming, my APM begins dropping to around 140-180 Avg. And that seems to handle everything perfectly for me, as in, i cant think of anything id' need that would require more Avg. APM than that, other than to continually spam actions throughout the entire game, and right click the extra 10 unnecessary times.
The point im trying to get at is- I watch streams and Pro-matches very regularly, and i watched the Gosugamers Team EG vs NrG games yesterday.  Ahhboxxah all-killed Team EG (i think, wasnt able to watch the game after Incontrol) with an Avg. APM of 290-300, at the end of the games. So, am i just missing something that requires a whole 100-150 extra average APM or is it just pure spamming every chance you get, and if so, whats the benefit other than carpal tunnel?
TLDR Version: Is there any benefit to having an Average APM of 300, in SC2, even through 20+ minute matches, when it seems that 200ish Average APM is more than enough, give or take 30 or so APM. In the end, if your capable of handling 300 APM, you'll use 300 APM when you need it.
|
The 300 apm avg player doesn't peak at 300 apm as you seem to think, he peaks at like 500.
You need lots of APM for multitasking and harrassing, and as Zerg to click through each of your hatcheries repeatedly to see how far along the spawn larvae is, to spread your army into 20 different parts in split-seconds, and so on. No one as of yet is even close to "having nothing to do" with their APM.
|
Do you win all of your games?
If you answered no to the previous question then 140-180 avg apm is not enough to win all the time. The better you play, the higher your APM gets. It's not the other way around.
|
Considering that many top players (Idra, for example) have 150-200 sc2 APM, I would say you should not be too worried about where you are.
On October 28 2010 11:03 Backpack wrote:
Do you win all of your games?
If you answered no to the previous question then 140-180 avg apm is not enough to win all the time. The better you play, the higher your APM gets. It's not the other way around.
This is silly. Just because he does not win all of his games, it does not follow that his APM is holding him back. It seems more likely that decision making, timing, build order knowledge, etc. are holding him back given his decent APM range but lack of actual games played.
|
I have a friend that puts CC on ctrl+2 and spams the shit out of ctrl+1 and ctrl+2 like
12121212121212121....
So no, I'd rather be a 140 apm player that has good game sense/decent multitasking than a 300 plus dude who doesn't even multitask but just spams.
|
I understand Multi-tasking takes alot of APM, but if you watched the games, it didnt seem like he was doing anymore Mult-tasking than Boxer did against Idra with 240 or so Avg. APM.
Does ANYONE win all of their games? no, i win alot more than lose though
|
At that high APM players are typically doing all the little things that give you like .5% better chance to win in addition to the obvious and big stuff. Slightly adjusting overlord positioning, moving the queen to the best side of the hatchery, constantly checking on upgrades and spawn larva, repositioning units so they're in a better formation when not being used, Moving a scouting unit around to check for expos/proxies/hidden junk, and so on.
At a certain point it's also possible he's bouncing around constantly to different view points to make sure nothing misses his attention.
|
On October 28 2010 11:08 EvilNalu wrote:
This is silly. Just because he does not win all of his games, it does not follow that his APM is holding him back. It seems more likely that decision making, timing, build order knowledge, etc. are holding him back given his decent APM range but lack of actual games played.
My point was that if you aren't winning then having higher APM can never be a bad thing.
|
The only thing I can think of that would cause someone to need higher than 200 average apm is if they micro amazingly while keeping up on their macro etc., but honestly I don't think I have seen anyone micro that well since SC2 has come out  . I think this excess APM is mostly just to keep a fast rhythm with spamming.
Spamming may night actually help physically, but sometimes it helps mentally. It keeps your mind in the game and keeps you thinking and reacting at a fast, rhythmic pace, which does help.
|
I can Manage all those little things with an Average APM of 180, because i can peak 250-300 when i need it. So ultimately what im curious on, is whether or not people think its beneficial to them, to continually spam for speed and constant babysitting of the unnecessary things, when you can manage all of it with a precise Average of -200.
|
Can I ask you why you haven't started ladder yet, when you can 'roll' 1,500 diamond players?
|
i feel so bad reading threads like this becouse my apm averages at 90-100, so slow =[
|
i did and won my 5 placements, but i dont know, personal wall for me kind of, even tho everyone i play with tells me im ready and that i should just start, the idea of losing even once to a bad player over a stupid cheese or some other crap they got lucky to pull off, and living with a permanent loss on my account keeps me from it, in SC: you could have practice accounts where you dont care about your W/L, SC2, you only get 1 account, 1 W/L record, and because unfortunately im a bit of a perfectionist, i wanna be sure i can win when the MMR pits me against 2000+ point players.
|
On October 28 2010 11:13 Logo wrote:
At that high APM players are typically doing all the little things that give you like .5% better chance to win in addition to the obvious and big stuff. Slightly adjusting overlord positioning, moving the queen to the best side of the hatchery, constantly checking on upgrades and spawn larva, repositioning units so they're in a better formation when not being used, Moving a scouting unit around to check for expos/proxies/hidden junk, and so on.
At a certain point it's also possible he's bouncing around constantly to different view points to make sure nothing misses his attention.
watch TesteR he does all the little things as toss and thus 300apm avrg
|
On October 28 2010 11:10 Licmyobelisk wrote:
I have a friend that puts CC on ctrl+2 and spams the shit out of ctrl+1 and ctrl+2 like
12121212121212121....
So no, I'd rather be a 140 apm player that has good game sense/decent multitasking than a 300 plus dude who doesn't even multitask but just spams.
Someone who can keep up 300 apm throughout the majority of the game is no joke. More than likely you will find that the best players have high APM throughout the entire match. Like the OP says, he may spam to 300 in the early game but it settles down to 140-180. I honestly would rather have 300 apm spamming into the game than topping out at 140. The ability to spam up to that much already proves he can do that many actions even if they're useless. Once you get into the rhythm of spamming, you can multitask a lot more due to your hands and fingers continuously moving.
|
that guy who did the all kill might have 300 apm but he is just spamming 565656565 or 12121212121212 (or going from one ctrl group to another rapidly) WHILE he is macroing and microing.
If you want more APM look for the APM during battles or when you are getting harassed or doing the harass. See what your apm is then and exactly what you are doing. This is where APM is most important. Being able to control two attacks in different locations, splitting up your army in seconds, while macroing, creep spreading, scouting, etc. Getting high APM during the start or when you are doing nothing is easy. Doing it while getting attacked from three sides and DTs is not easy.
Anyone can spam.
|
Unless your APM is hopelessly low it should never be a concern. Hopelessly low in SC2 is down in the range of 20-30.
|
On October 28 2010 11:34 scph wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 11:10 Licmyobelisk wrote:
I have a friend that puts CC on ctrl+2 and spams the shit out of ctrl+1 and ctrl+2 like
12121212121212121....
So no, I'd rather be a 140 apm player that has good game sense/decent multitasking than a 300 plus dude who doesn't even multitask but just spams. Someone who can keep up 300 apm throughout the majority of the game is no joke. More than likely you will find that the best players have high APM throughout the entire match. Like the OP says, he may spam to 300 in the early game but it settles down to 140-180. I honestly would rather have 300 apm spamming into the game than topping out at 140. The ability to spam up to that much already proves he can do that many actions even if they're useless. Once you get into the rhythm of spamming, you can multitask a lot more due to your hands and fingers continuously moving.
rofl the ABILITY to spam to 300? pushing two buttons rapidly or clicking a thousand times is an ability? Ffs anyone can do that. Yes, it is for warmup and getting into the flow but just because you can spam to 300 does not mean you are good.
|
Having a higher APM is important to being good, but EAPM (Effective APM) is the key to the improvement. I try to never spam, and as a result, my early game APM is like 20 or 30. But, as the game progresses, i eventually bring the average up to about 85-90, so like 110 or so real APM. I realize this is slow, but i have almost trained myself to not spam, so i can get an accurate display of my apm improvements.
|
On October 28 2010 11:31 Silament wrote:
i did and won my 5 placements, but i dont know, personal wall for me kind of, even tho everyone i play with tells me im ready and that i should just start, the idea of losing even once to a bad player over a stupid cheese or some other crap they got lucky to pull off, and living with a permanent loss on my account keeps me from it, in SC: you could have practice accounts where you dont care about your W/L, SC2, you only get 1 account, 1 W/L record, and because unfortunately im a bit of a perfectionist, i wanna be sure i can win when the MMR pits me against 2000+ point players.
Even the best player in the world will lose to cheeses from time to time. If that is your hangup then you can never ladder. Is that what you want?
Your record will not remain X-0 for much longer when you finally ladder no matter how good you get before you play.
Plus, didn't blizzard announce they will have seasons and reset leagues/records periodically?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
