EPTContinuous APM spam? Or more. - Page 5
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quasit
Sweden49 Posts
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 28 2010 18:27 quasit wrote: I check the SC2 streams sometimes, mostly diamond players, and many players seem to move any unit by clicking 3-4 times in practically the same small area (1-2 pixels apart). Isn't that a big waste of APM? In those 300 milliseconds, what else would you be doing? Also, issuing multiple commands ensures that it's actually done. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On October 28 2010 18:26 SovSov wrote: Nah that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about when people go from 300 "warm up" APM in the first 5 minutes then drop to like 60 during the game. That's exactly what you're talking about. My point was that they spam because they've got nothing else to do, not because they're trying to show off. 300 APM is literally "right click minerals". | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On October 28 2010 18:27 quasit wrote: I check the SC2 streams sometimes, mostly diamond players, and many players seem to move any unit by clicking 3-4 times in practically the same small area (1-2 pixels apart). Isn't that a big waste of APM? if they got nothing better to do with their apm during those seconds, then its no waste. oh, and issueing move commands all the time has a very very minor positive effect: after u have selected the unit, some time goes by till ur mouse hits the location to which u want to send the unit. if u only give one precise move command to this location, the unit will wait before starting to move for exactly as long as it takes for u to move the mouse to the desired location. if u issue several move commands during the time u move the mouse there, the unit starts moving slightly earlier. | ||
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iByte
Canada33 Posts
Axslav has like 60-90 apm and he's really high rated as well. | ||
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imyzhang
Canada809 Posts
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muzzy
United States640 Posts
On October 28 2010 11:03 Backpack wrote: The better you play, the higher your APM gets. It's not the other way around. This is the truth. Too many people are striving to increase their APM. Strive to increase your skills and the APM will come with it. | ||
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double1185
Vietnam211 Posts
On October 28 2010 10:58 Silament wrote: So, i understand the point and value to spamming your APM at the early part of the game to warm your hands/fingers and thinking up. Im only a 5-0 Platinum zerg because i havnt felt ready to Ladder, but i can, for the most part roll over 1400-1500 Diamonds in custom games, random and practices. during the early stage, my APM Avg. is between 200-280 depending on the type of match and how much i care to win. Sr for an off-topic and noob question, what is different ladder and league in SC2, how do i play in ladder?? | ||
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LeibSaiLeib
173 Posts
sc1 pros all had 300-400 apm (exept savior early days but after that yeah) and people still sayd that apm is pointless, even the pros spam, but since they are pros one shouldnt question their apm and need for spam. i see very similar thing in sc2, most highest lvl people have around 200 apm (260 real apm) so yeah arguing about it its pointless imo EDIT: low lvl players(like up to 2k diamond) overestimate APM, but same players understimate APM at highest lvl of play | ||
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wishbones
Canada2600 Posts
now i hate these threads, its weird. everyones right and everyones wrong, but truthfully... IM RIGHT! MWAHAHAH | ||
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chickenboy10
United Kingdom18 Posts
My apm in most games goes from an average of 50 to an average of 100 in nearly every game and during games it slowly rises bit by bit. tbh i though before that apm spamming was a waste of time, and i used to never spam so i could judge myself on my EAPM. I still also think that apm should not be used to show a players skill, and other factors like multitasking/game sense and decisions should be used instead. Edit: whoops forget to add why i think that way. I think high apm doesnt show players true skill because spamming buttons over and over, no matter how fast, does not use take "skill" or brain power, and so does not show how good they are at playing the game. | ||
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wishbones
Canada2600 Posts
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s4m222
United States272 Posts
If your hands are so slow that even mindless spamming doesnt hit 200, do you think because you have more things to do later in the game you can hit 200 apm? People Spam at the beginning, to just warm up, loosen up. Pro's are able to translate nearly all of that spam into usable able late game. While others like myself, spam early game, then drop off, as we cant maintain focus, or think fast enough to require that much apm. Spamming for apm is like anyone other skill, spamming is the easy beginners version, training wheels, peace and quiet to focus on doing _____. Pro's do, do some unnecessary clicking, moving a unit to one spot twice, re-rallying to another mineral patch and so on. However i think its somewhat necessary to simple keep that flow of high activity up so that when you need to expand, while pushing, while fending off a drop you have the capacity to. And yes If someone has 150 apm, vs someone else with 250(minimal spamming) they ARE doing that much more. Losing 1 less unit then you in every skirmish, while macroing just a little better than you, always being in a slightly better position, reaction just a bit faster than you. All pointing towards a higher chance of success. APM is not the end all, with a good strategic mind you can of course beat someone with more APM. If your gaming skill/sense is about the same, the greater APM will usually edge out, especially as the game draws on. | ||
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Uhh Negative
United States1090 Posts
On October 28 2010 11:31 Silament wrote: i did and won my 5 placements, but i dont know, personal wall for me kind of, even tho everyone i play with tells me im ready and that i should just start, the idea of losing even once to a bad player over a stupid cheese or some other crap they got lucky to pull off, and living with a permanent loss on my account keeps me from it, in SC: you could have practice accounts where you dont care about your W/L, SC2, you only get 1 account, 1 W/L record, and because unfortunately im a bit of a perfectionist, i wanna be sure i can win when the MMR pits me against 2000+ point players. Your reasoning is like living life and never taking a risk or stepping out of your comfort zone. You won't get anywhere. I lost my last 12 out of 13 ladder games and lost over 150 points from 1750 down to 1600. Sure, it made me mad but I'm probably going to be a better player because of it. You can't know how to beat cheesy play without losing to it once or twice. It seems like EVERYONE is just playing cheesy and doing these stupid hellion/banshee play or proxy 2-gate or speedling/baneling all-in nowadays. I'd rather lose to this shit all day than to stoop to that level because I'll never learn how to play macro-economically. What fun is it to do gimmicky builds all the way up to 2000 (this is very possible, btw)? I will lose with too many drones any day before I lose making too many units to defend. Sure, they might win now, but once I learn how to defend all of this bullshit gimmicky play, I will be far superior to them because they don't know how to play off of 2 bases. Also, it's not a permenant loss. Records will be reset probably pretty soon and you will regret not laddering and learning once the new season comes along. | ||
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GreatFall
United States1061 Posts
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Archduke
United States119 Posts
On October 28 2010 11:31 Silament wrote: i did and won my 5 placements, but i dont know, personal wall for me kind of, even tho everyone i play with tells me im ready and that i should just start, the idea of losing even once to a bad player over a stupid cheese or some other crap they got lucky to pull off, and living with a permanent loss on my account keeps me from it, in SC: you could have practice accounts where you dont care about your W/L, SC2, you only get 1 account, 1 W/L record, and because unfortunately im a bit of a perfectionist, i wanna be sure i can win when the MMR pits me against 2000+ point players. You'll never get better with an attitude like that. Anyway, the moral of the story is that APM DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER. If you're fast enough to do everything you want to do, then that's that. (Doing 5 drops at the same time isn't necessarily always a good thing, either.) | ||
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Proto_Protoss
United States495 Posts
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On October 28 2010 14:19 Aberu wrote: Well that was a rather selective reply wasn't it? You completely ignored the reference to Day[9] mentioning that apm doesn't really need to be that high. The fact is that someone that plays in 300 SC2 apm land is playing at around 400 BW apm land. Do you know anyone that ACTUALLY utilizes all 400 APM in BW? Didn't think so. That includes clicking multiple times to move the same group of units, constantly switching between units needlessly being thrown out. Not saying that spam or apm is the sign of a bad player or anything, just it's not what people should focus on to get better. To the OP, if you really want to get better, clicking buttons quickly is not what you should be worried about. Scouting, macro, micro, unit positioning, overall unit control, timing (relative to the player and how they are playing, not arbitrary supply numbers), those are much more important than APM. Now if you get great at all of those things, quite a bit of APM comes with it, but that doesn't mean there is much purpose other than warming up, to having 400 apm throughout a whole game, or having 400 apm at the start of a match. First, my "It is absolutely true that apm isn't necessary to be a good/decent player" was in response to the Day[9] quote. Day[9] is not the only one to say it, and just because I didn't explicitly include Day[9]'s name doesn't mean I'm not replying to that statement when they are clearly on the same topic of "not needing very high APM." Second, all of the current BW progamers have average APM's of around 250-300, with spikes to 400. Progamers use 400 APM. Jaedong spikes to 500, 600. It's hard to even spam to APM that high, do you really think progamers are spamming during critical moments of micro in battle? You're just assuming that people can't utilize high APM. No one has said that you need a good APM to be a good player, and nobody has told anyone else to increase their APM rather than improve their gameplay. APM is a measure of "how fast you can do stuff," which is incredibly important at certain points in certain games - that's all that's being said here. | ||
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