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On October 28 2010 11:42 EvilNalu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 11:31 Silament wrote:
i did and won my 5 placements, but i dont know, personal wall for me kind of, even tho everyone i play with tells me im ready and that i should just start, the idea of losing even once to a bad player over a stupid cheese or some other crap they got lucky to pull off, and living with a permanent loss on my account keeps me from it, in SC: you could have practice accounts where you dont care about your W/L, SC2, you only get 1 account, 1 W/L record, and because unfortunately im a bit of a perfectionist, i wanna be sure i can win when the MMR pits me against 2000+ point players. Even the best player in the world will lose to cheeses from time to time. If that is your hangup then you can never ladder. Is that what you want? Your record will not remain X-0 for much longer when you finally ladder no matter how good you get before you play. Plus, didn't blizzard announce they will have seasons and reset leagues/records periodically?
I know, im not shootin for 100-0, but 100-20 looks an feels alot better than 100-80
Im sure there will be resets, but if you played D2 at all.. (different game entirely, i know) there WERE ladder resets..... keyword=WERE -- as in, incredibly rare
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On October 28 2010 11:42 EvilNalu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 11:31 Silament wrote:
i did and won my 5 placements, but i dont know, personal wall for me kind of, even tho everyone i play with tells me im ready and that i should just start, the idea of losing even once to a bad player over a stupid cheese or some other crap they got lucky to pull off, and living with a permanent loss on my account keeps me from it, in SC: you could have practice accounts where you dont care about your W/L, SC2, you only get 1 account, 1 W/L record, and because unfortunately im a bit of a perfectionist, i wanna be sure i can win when the MMR pits me against 2000+ point players. Even the best player in the world will lose to cheeses from time to time. If that is your hangup then you can never ladder. Is that what you want? Your record will not remain X-0 for much longer when you finally ladder no matter how good you get before you play. Plus, didn't blizzard announce they will have seasons and reset leagues/records periodically?
lol...so you think a bad player is going to beat you? No...a good player is going to wipe the floor with you. Trust me bro you are nowhere close to even think about being a perfect SC2 player. Grow a pair and stop living in a dream thinking you are automatically a 2000 point player.
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On October 28 2010 10:58 Silament wrote:So, i understand the point and value to spamming your APM at the early part of the game to warm your hands/fingers and thinking up. Im only a 5-0 Platinum zerg because i havnt felt ready to Ladder, but i can, for the most part roll over 1400-1500 Diamonds in custom games, random and practices. during the early stage, my APM Avg. is between 200-280 depending on the type of match and how much i care to win. But around the 10-15 minute mark when i actually need to pay attention and be precise with my Macro/Micro and stop straight spamming, my APM begins dropping to around 140-180 Avg. And that seems to handle everything perfectly for me, as in, i cant think of anything id' need that would require more Avg. APM than that, other than to continually spam actions throughout the entire game, and right click the extra 10 unnecessary times. The point im trying to get at is- I watch streams and Pro-matches very regularly, and i watched the Gosugamers Team EG vs NrG games yesterday.  Ahhboxxah all-killed Team EG (i think, wasnt able to watch the game after Incontrol) with an Avg. APM of 290-300, at the end of the games. So, am i just missing something that requires a whole 100-150 extra average APM or is it just pure spamming every chance you get, and if so, whats the benefit other than carpal tunnel? TLDR Version: Is there any benefit to having an Average APM of 300, in SC2, even through 20+ minute matches, when it seems that 200ish Average APM is more than enough, give or take 30 or so APM. In the end, if your capable of handling 300 APM, you'll use 300 APM when you need it.
apm is about rhythm and methodical actions. pros dont go OMGZ IF I GETS MY APM TO 300 I WIN LUZLUZULZ. they just know what rhythm works for them and keep it consistent throughout the game.
i used to have low APM and never spammed but ever since i started to spam ive been playing a lot better because it forces me to do things consistently and when there is idle time it stands out and i can fix that for next time.
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On October 28 2010 11:46 Silament wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 11:42 EvilNalu wrote:On October 28 2010 11:31 Silament wrote:
i did and won my 5 placements, but i dont know, personal wall for me kind of, even tho everyone i play with tells me im ready and that i should just start, the idea of losing even once to a bad player over a stupid cheese or some other crap they got lucky to pull off, and living with a permanent loss on my account keeps me from it, in SC: you could have practice accounts where you dont care about your W/L, SC2, you only get 1 account, 1 W/L record, and because unfortunately im a bit of a perfectionist, i wanna be sure i can win when the MMR pits me against 2000+ point players. Even the best player in the world will lose to cheeses from time to time. If that is your hangup then you can never ladder. Is that what you want? Your record will not remain X-0 for much longer when you finally ladder no matter how good you get before you play. Plus, didn't blizzard announce they will have seasons and reset leagues/records periodically? I know, im not shootin for 100-0, but 100-20 looks an feels alot better than 100-80 Im sure there will be resets, but if you played D2 at all.. (different game entirely, i know) there WERE ladder resets..... keyword=WERE -- as in, incredibly rare
lol go ladder and come back in a month. Let's see your 100-20 then.
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Yes, they also announced that season2 begins soon so get your weebie geebies out of the way with what remains of s1.
going 100-20 is an unrealistic goal. That is an 83% win rate. Look at the best (ladder) players in the world. How many do you see with an 83% win rate? http://sc2ranks.com
Here is another link: http://sc2ranks.com/ranks/all/diamond/1/all/ratio
7 people in the world have that 83.3% win rate you covet. GOOD LUCK!
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Just so the OP knows, they're resetting the win/loss figures soon any way. You should also note that if you live your life in fear of failure you'll never set foot out of your house. Life begins where your comfort zone ends.
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This is a cleverly disguised "how do I raise my apm?" thread.
Well. Okay, not really.
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early game spam is for maintaining tempo and for warming up your fingers. its easier to start out fast and maintain a high speed than it is to start slow and suddenly speed up IMO
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Higher apm lets you perform more actions per minute. Pros need to perform more actions per minute, so they do. 200 apm is enough for decent play, but definitely not perfect play.
And I use to be hesitant to play ladder too. But then I realized nobody cares about ladder and even pros lose a lot (because you will have to face other good people eventually). I still don't ladder that much though because I hate the map pool.
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On October 28 2010 11:46 Silament wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 11:42 EvilNalu wrote:On October 28 2010 11:31 Silament wrote:
i did and won my 5 placements, but i dont know, personal wall for me kind of, even tho everyone i play with tells me im ready and that i should just start, the idea of losing even once to a bad player over a stupid cheese or some other crap they got lucky to pull off, and living with a permanent loss on my account keeps me from it, in SC: you could have practice accounts where you dont care about your W/L, SC2, you only get 1 account, 1 W/L record, and because unfortunately im a bit of a perfectionist, i wanna be sure i can win when the MMR pits me against 2000+ point players. Even the best player in the world will lose to cheeses from time to time. If that is your hangup then you can never ladder. Is that what you want? Your record will not remain X-0 for much longer when you finally ladder no matter how good you get before you play. Plus, didn't blizzard announce they will have seasons and reset leagues/records periodically? I know, im not shootin for 100-0, but 100-20 looks an feels alot better than 100-80 Im sure there will be resets, but if you played D2 at all.. (different game entirely, i know) there WERE ladder resets..... keyword=WERE -- as in, incredibly rare
Why you even care about your ladder record when the entire point of the actual ladder is to get 50/50 ratio's is ridiculous. Ya some people have 70-80 percent win ratios but they probably played a TON of beta and were already really good.
Your record is irrelevent in a tournament which is what actually matters. 1400-1500 is nothing. Beating them says nothing about you going 100-20 lol. Also, they may have been offracing or trying shit against you in customs anyway.
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Aite, well... this thread went in a really different direction than was intended. My original thought got vaguely answered, if even, however... after readin, on a good note, ill probably start laddering once i get home hah. be back in a month with my 100-20 -.-
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On October 28 2010 12:03 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 11:46 Silament wrote:On October 28 2010 11:42 EvilNalu wrote:On October 28 2010 11:31 Silament wrote:
i did and won my 5 placements, but i dont know, personal wall for me kind of, even tho everyone i play with tells me im ready and that i should just start, the idea of losing even once to a bad player over a stupid cheese or some other crap they got lucky to pull off, and living with a permanent loss on my account keeps me from it, in SC: you could have practice accounts where you dont care about your W/L, SC2, you only get 1 account, 1 W/L record, and because unfortunately im a bit of a perfectionist, i wanna be sure i can win when the MMR pits me against 2000+ point players. Even the best player in the world will lose to cheeses from time to time. If that is your hangup then you can never ladder. Is that what you want? Your record will not remain X-0 for much longer when you finally ladder no matter how good you get before you play. Plus, didn't blizzard announce they will have seasons and reset leagues/records periodically? I know, im not shootin for 100-0, but 100-20 looks an feels alot better than 100-80 Im sure there will be resets, but if you played D2 at all.. (different game entirely, i know) there WERE ladder resets..... keyword=WERE -- as in, incredibly rare Why you even care about your ladder record when the entire point of the actual ladder is to get 50/50 ratio's is ridiculous. Ya some people have 70-80 percent win ratios but they probably played a TON of beta and were already really good. Your record is irrelevent in a tournament which is what actually matters. 1400-1500 is nothing. Beating them says nothing about you going 100-20 lol. Also, they may have been offracing or trying shit against you in customs anyway.
Personal gratuity i guess. and im not saying 1400-1500 is high or extremely good, but no. they wernt off-racing or "trying shit" alot of these matches are against ppl ive met online specifically To practice with. not All randoms
P.S. the 100-20 deal... i wasnt being serious or saying thats a goal of mine, i was simply stating that 100-20 Looks better than 100-80.
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On October 28 2010 10:58 Silament wrote:So, i understand the point and value to spamming your APM at the early part of the game to warm your hands/fingers and thinking up. Im only a 5-0 Platinum zerg because i havnt felt ready to Ladder, but i can, for the most part roll over 1400-1500 Diamonds in custom games, random and practices. during the early stage, my APM Avg. is between 200-280 depending on the type of match and how much i care to win. But around the 10-15 minute mark when i actually need to pay attention and be precise with my Macro/Micro and stop straight spamming, my APM begins dropping to around 140-180 Avg. And that seems to handle everything perfectly for me, as in, i cant think of anything id' need that would require more Avg. APM than that, other than to continually spam actions throughout the entire game, and right click the extra 10 unnecessary times. The point im trying to get at is- I watch streams and Pro-matches very regularly, and i watched the Gosugamers Team EG vs NrG games yesterday. Ahhboxxah all-killed Team EG (i think, wasnt able to watch the game after Incontrol) with an Avg. APM of 290-300, at the end of the games. So, am i just missing something that requires a whole 100-150 extra average APM or is it just pure spamming every chance you get, and if so, whats the benefit other than carpal tunnel? TLDR Version: Is there any benefit to having an Average APM of 300, in SC2, even through 20+ minute matches, when it seems that 200ish Average APM is more than enough, give or take 30 or so APM. In the end, if your capable of handling 300 APM, you'll use 300 APM when you need it.
I watched / played Ahhboxxah at WCG Canada this year, and I can say - the guy is real good. He does spam up his APM a bit - but in my opinion you have the idea wrong of why some people choose to spam.
When you're spamming to increase your APM, you are selecting different groups of units / buildings without really thinking about it. It's more of a muscle memory thing than a concious decision. After a certain amount of time, other things start working their way into that "Muscle memory cycle" that you're building by spamming keys. instead of "12121212121212121212121212", maybe it turns into "1212121212121212121e1212121212121212". Now you're not just selecting your nexus, you're building a probe.
"But FaZe" you ask, "couldn't you just press 1 to select your Nexus, then e to build a probe?"
Yes, you could do that. However, by working it's way into your muscle memory spamming, you don't have to think about building probes anymore. It frees up valuable brain power to think about other things. Sure, it's not a huge deal in the early game to think about building a probe - but once you're working off 3-4 bases, 8 gateways and 4 robo bays - the spamming that you're doing is anything but useless. It's doing menial tasks for you so you don't spend all your time remembering to build probes, pylons, or w/e. You need to be able to multi-task.
Spamming isn't about doing useless actions to make yourself look gosu, it's about adding tasks to your personnal auto-pilot so you have more brain power for micro, decisions, and multi-tasking.
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I unashamedly spam my buildings. Sure, my average apm goes from like 300 something in the beginning of the game to 150-170 by the end of the game, but that spamming is useful in that I use it to keep a constant eye on all of my buildings. In the beginning, there isn't much to watch, but it keeps me warmed up and constantly checking through the game.
So yeah, my EAPM is probably a lot lower, but through spamming I believe that I improve my EAPM as well as just my spammed APM.
EDIT: Basically, what the guy above me said.
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Idunno, I have about 100-110 APM at 1700~ (I know, mid-diamond at best) as Protoss and honestly spamming for 200 would only like, get me to chronoboost an upgrade a second earlier or maybe squeeze out an extra probe or two throughout the game
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On October 28 2010 12:12 Twistacles wrote:
Idunno, I have about 100-110 APM at 1700~ (I know, mid-diamond at best) as Protoss and honestly spamming for 200 would only like, get me to chronoboost an upgrade a second earlier or maybe squeeze out an extra probe or two throughout the game
same boat as you.
siting at between 95 early game and up to 115 max late game. at ~1700 as toss too. Though my multi tasking could definitely be better.
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I feel weird not spamming in early game... It's like I have nothing to do....
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I really don't care about watching my apm in replays or anything. If my multitask is getting better or worse, I can tell on my own, I don't need an apm count to inform me.
That being said, I spam a ton because it's exciting. There's nothing wrong with it, and so I don't see the point of criticizing those who do it. If you have 100 apm and another guy has 300 and you win, neither of your apm's matter.
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On October 28 2010 12:25 0mgVitaminE wrote:
If you have 100 apm and another guy has 300 and you win, neither of your apm's matter.
Agreed. The only reason spamming would be actually bad is if it 1) got in the way of your actual game play or 2) you were using it to just look "cool"
If you aren't spamming for bragging rights, then what does it matter?
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Judging a player by their apm is like judging a plane by it's weight.
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EPT
