EPTI totally believe that there are balance flaws, maybe even a few serious ones, but for the majority of the player base and even the majority of TL players, the losses we suffer are rarely, if ever, the cause of balance and are never because of balance issues alone.
Day[9] interview at WCG - Page 6
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Accer
Korea (South)319 Posts
I totally believe that there are balance flaws, maybe even a few serious ones, but for the majority of the player base and even the majority of TL players, the losses we suffer are rarely, if ever, the cause of balance and are never because of balance issues alone. | ||
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ltortoise
633 Posts
He never once said the game was perfectly balanced. He said it was too early to discuss it in a meaningful way. Makes perfect sense to me, since we haven't tried everything yet. | ||
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FuryX
Australia495 Posts
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Laerties
United States361 Posts
On September 12 2010 17:02 Damnesiac wrote: So who do i listen to... Day[9].. hasn't won anything in sc2 really, and supposedly barely plays at all, OR players who were better than him in sc1 and are far better than him in sc2 with more knowledge. I like day9 in sc1 because he had credibility and experience to back up whatever you said. In sc2 he is just some sort of master of extrapolation with no evidence what so ever. IdrA gives solid reasoning for all his points and his predictions in every field have super accurate results. Not only that but many top level players including some terrans agree that there is imbalance. I guess I am just too demanding of people who make pretty ballsy claims when there arguement is ' We are going to see this happen then this happen and then this will happen ' Day9 actually does play the game....hes pretty good and beats top foreigners all the time.... Gretorp was just talking on his stream about getting owned by day9 the other day. | ||
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SiN]
United States540 Posts
On September 12 2010 20:37 Wolfpox wrote: Nah, the game is new, it's just stupid to pretend that it's balanced. Do I claim to have all the answers for that? No, and not even Blizzard does. I realize that Day[9] is trying to be politically correct by avoiding questions of balance, and is doing the "good gamer" thing of pretending like a game is balanced in order to work on strategies (since there is no point is thinking of imbalance when working on strategies) but that doesn't mean he's right if he says its too early to tell, etc. Oh and here's some more good steps: Step 1: Watch everything Day[9] says Step 2: Worship his every word as sacred truth Step 3: Repeat what he says like an unthinking robot on the forums Step 4: Shit all over anything that doesn't regurgitate that one guy's opinion The attitude of Day[9], and his huge pride in trying to pretend like that game doesn't need balance fixes, is what annoys me. "BOOM I ANSWERD TEH SHI OUT OF THAT QUESTION". No you didn't, you just sidestepped it and gave a formulaic non-answer. The attitude implies that patches, balances and expansions are just ways to "tune" or "improve" it, not actually fix something that's wrong. What magic wand was waved that suddenly turned the game from totally zany beta phase, to unquestionable perfect balance? Nothing. It's perfectly valid and fair to raise balance concerns UNLESS you want to discuss strategy... which is what Day[9] is exclusively doing, besides shoutcasting some stuff. So it's fine for him to ignore balance in his little dailies, but it's absurd to not even acknowledge it otherwise I assume that you didn't play Starcraft/Broodwar when it first came out, if at all. The only thing they changed in Broodwar was, iirc, adding the Wraith, and fixing bugs/exploits. People didn't know what to do at first, and thought that certain strategies were OP, but now, ten years later, nearly nobody questions balance. Similarly, in SC2, people were saying that Thors are way too strong against Mutalisks. A few weeks later, the 'magic box' technique is formed, and Thors are no longer too strong against Mutalisks. What Day9 is saying is that things seem overpowered, but then one of two things happen: 1.Blizzard makes these small changes, and then everything is fine. A perfect example of this is changing Voidray range from 6 to 5. 2.People find out how to work around strong techniques on their own. Gretorp's 2 Barracks Ghost FE strategy was made as a work around to the Voidrays. This is why he says to wait awhile before saying anything about balance. And yes, he did answer the question. He also gave good examples to support his answer. | ||
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
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Parodoxx
United States549 Posts
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HalfAmazing
Netherlands402 Posts
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Gunman_csz
United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On September 12 2010 17:29 _Darwin_ wrote: I said: And you said: I'm not sure how the two relate. To clarify: I'm not disappointed in the imbalance. I'm disappointed in Day9 refusing to acknowledge the imbalance. What I have noticed in all these times listening and watching Day9 is that he tries to be "politically correct". Plus, he doesn't have to acknowledge as he openly states that he has the most trouble with all his zerg matchups (ironic because he was a zerg player in BW). Not only that, but also the tournaments results, the ladder ranking, the statistics, the constant complains from zerg/protoss, and finally blizzard path notes all point to the imbalance. | ||
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1sd2sd3sd
660 Posts
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On September 13 2010 00:05 HalfAmazing wrote: Balance only affects players. Day[9] is a caster. He really doesn't care, as long as games are interesting and entertaining. lol... he wants a balanced game just as much as the players i think. whats the fun in commentating if u have to take imbalance into consideration each time a race wins over another rather than giving it to the players day9 is awesome and i think i have to absolutely agree with his answers. wc3 tft was alot less balanced than sc1 so by that u could draw the conclusion that sc2 wont be very balanced at all but i hope thats not gonna be the case bringing in new units is not only gonna make the game more interesting and fun, it also has great potential to fix some problems just like he says personally i think the game is lacking more of enjoyment factor than balance tho. thats why im alot more excited for the expansions with new cool stuff rather than these little stat changes | ||
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Ebrithril
Canada28 Posts
What I have noticed in all these times listening and watching Day9 is that he tries to be "politically correct". Plus, he doesn't have to acknowledge as he openly states that he has the most trouble with all his zerg matchups (ironic because he was a zerg player in BW). Not only that, but also the tournaments results, the ladder ranking, the statistics, the constant complains from zerg/protoss, and finally blizzard path notes all point to the imbalance. I'm going to have to slightly disagree with your reasoning here. It's true that he avoids claiming imbalance, but I think this is a extremely good thing from his perspective. Think about it, if he were to claim some form of 'imbalance' the vast majority of his fans would immediately take up his perspective and then none of them would attempt to learn anything more about the game. They way he presents it encourages people to learn more about the game, play with timings, try new things and reinforce practice with mechanics. By acknowledging the potential of something being 'slightly too strong', but also noting that it could simply be because we don't yet understand SC2 well enough to adjust our playstyle accordingly makes for a very well-rounded balance I think. I will also note that I think the fact that Day9 played starcraft from the time it was immediately released, and has been a dedicated player ever since gives him a very good idea of what the game was, is, and what SC2 is on the path to be, which is more than credibility than most people can boast. | ||
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jax1492
United States1632 Posts
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Karthane
United States1183 Posts
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
Instead of trying to get people to "admit Terran is imba," people have to start admitting to themselves they got outplayed. The game is young and will still get some fixing, but trying to pinpoint where the fixes are needed is a waste of time. Blizzard is fully capable of determining that. Players need to play the game, and most importantly try new things. When you ladder, don't think "oh, if i try something new and it fails I'm going to lose ladder points." Think "hey if I lose a game by changing my play and then tweak it, I might be able to win the next 5 games." Edit: I also agree with Day about his theory on the progression of imbalance. I've already started to struggle against Protosses (not enough to scream imba, but it's taking lots of work to devise new methods of playing TvP) and by the time that blows over, Zergs should be more used to their race and start dominating everything. You heard it from Day[9] first ;D | ||
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BamBam
745 Posts
On September 12 2010 23:26 GoSu] wrote: I assume that you didn't play Starcraft/Broodwar when it first came out, if at all. The only thing they changed in Broodwar was, iirc, adding the Wraith, and fixing bugs/exploits. People didn't know what to do at first, and thought that certain strategies were OP, but now, ten years later, nearly nobody questions balance. Apparently neither have you... Broodwar added 7 units. Wraith was not one of them. DT, DA, Valk, Lurker, devourer (ROFL), medic, and corsair in addition to upgrades and a few tweaks In fact, in the original starcraft, spawning pool was 150, scouts were even more expensive then what they are now and replays? Rofl those were a myth and other obnoxious things that Weren't changed until BW... Even then it was a cluster fuck (400 mineral hatcheries come to mind instantly) Similarly, in SC2, people were saying that Thors are way too strong against Mutalisks. A few weeks later, the 'magic box' technique is formed, and Thors are no longer too strong against Mutalisks. The magic box was already known about in BW. In fact, I think anyone who played on iccup BW knew this fact and just naturally accepted it in sc2 (which has only just been proven?). Nothing really changed just how the masses of sc2 see them. | ||
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iNdo-Man
United States191 Posts
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Kage
India788 Posts
He's just so goofy at times makes you think he's family almost instantly. | ||
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Hikko
United States1126 Posts
On September 12 2010 23:26 GoSu] wrote: I assume that you didn't play Starcraft/Broodwar when it first came out, if at all. The only thing they changed in Broodwar was, iirc, adding the Wraith, and fixing bugs/exploits. People didn't know what to do at first, and thought that certain strategies were OP, but now, ten years later, nearly nobody questions balance. Similarly, in SC2, people were saying that Thors are way too strong against Mutalisks. A few weeks later, the 'magic box' technique is formed, and Thors are no longer too strong against Mutalisks. Did you ever play Starcraft before Brood War or just without the expansion? Brood War introduced Devourers(useless, but still), Lurkers, Dark Templar and Archons, Corsairs, Goliath legitimate anti air, Valkyries, Medics...the game may have not completely changed, but it became a lot more balanced and strategic. The Wraith was in the original game. Combine that with tons of unit and building cost changes, ie Hatcheries becoming 300 minerals post expansion, the Spawning Pool becoming more expensive, Scout becoming more useless. But all these are just little bug fixes, right? I think SC2 is in much better shape than the original Starcraft was, but it still has a ways to go before it's Brood War Perfect™. | ||
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kidijs
Latvia40 Posts
On September 13 2010 00:05 HalfAmazing wrote: Balance only affects players. Day[9] is a caster. He really doesn't care, as long as games are interesting and entertaining. OK THIS ISN'T FUNNY BUT YOUR POST MADE ME THINK OF SOMETHING LIKE THIS: ![[image loading]](http://imageshack.dk/imagesfree/e5W12433.png) | ||
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