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What I hope they don't do is fix everything with Heart of the Swarm and then break it again in Legacy of the Void. They'll have to be super careful with that final expansion.
On September 13 2010 04:44 Ballistixz wrote:
i agree with what he said about the expansions. blizz has heart of the swarm and legacy of the void to fix this game up. thats 2 or 3 years for blizz to get this game right. if the game is not fixed by the time legacy of the void comes out then everyone can quit SC2 because it never will be fixed.
but i do have to dissagree with what he said about protoss being the strongest... who the hell is saying toss is stronger then terran right now? if any good terran knows how to incorporate ghosts into there army mix against toss then there should be no way in hell those words should be uttered out of anyones mouth. not even day9s.
toss stronger then terrans indeed. that was a nice troll there day9 lol.
Koreans are saying protoss is overpowered right now because the 4gate push pretty much dictates how you have to play. And proxy 2gate zealot rushes are being abused right now as well. But the patch should change that.
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On September 13 2010 04:44 Ballistixz wrote:but i do have to dissagree with what he said about protoss being the strongest... who the hell is saying toss is stronger then terran right now?
(Some) Koreans are.
Source: Recent GSL VODS @ gomtv (Tasteless).
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On September 12 2010 17:41 Deadlyfish wrote:
Also, someone said that Day9 isnt very credible in sc2, and they'd rather listen to IdrA about balance? Ever considered IdrA might be very biased, seeing as he plays Zerg? If i was a pro Zerg player i'd just say that every other race besides my own was OP, why wouldnt I? Better race = more $$.
Watch this interview with IdrA. He explicitly states that when anything he feels is imbalanced in the game, regardless of which race he is playing, he will point it out. So its not about some personal bias simply to make the game easier for him to win tournaments with his race, it is about the long-term solution to have a truly balanced and enjoyable game.
IdrA fanclub interview
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On September 12 2010 18:35 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2010 18:07 NonFactor wrote:On September 12 2010 17:41 Deadlyfish wrote:
I think he's right about the balance thing. Many games balance themselves out over time, unless there is a huge issue. So Blizz is right to make minor changes instead of just changing the game completely for no reason.
Also, someone said that Day9 isnt very credible in sc2, and they'd rather listen to IdrA about balance? Ever considered IdrA might be very biased, seeing as he plays Zerg? If i was a pro Zerg player i'd just say that every other race besides my own was OP, why wouldnt I? Better race = more $$.
Day9 is one of the most credible guys when it comes to balance, imo. Idra doesen't strike to me as a person who would lie about stuff like this. He might say stuff in a game when hes losing, but that's just rage. While if asked stuff like this in interviews he usually gives proper responses to why and how things are wrong, you can also see some posts by Idra. Also saying that Idra would lie so his race would get buffed to make extra money is just ridicolous lol. A game with overpowered races is a game that won't last long. = Money lost in the long run. And there is imo a huge issue, and that is the Zerg scouting, Reapers are too. And no, don't think 5 seconds will fix anything. Because the issue there isn't really the reapers. The issue is that you are forced to go Roaches, and the instant you do that, the Terran will start pumping Marauders from 5 rax, take off his SVCs and steam roll you. Incredibly hard to stop, but easy to execute from the T side. (Tech lab = Reapers and Marauders, kinda silly how easily a T can change unit compositions, but yeah...) Then you have a ball of Reapers / Marauders with stim. Or something we see more often thesedays is that they mix in Marines too. And a shit ton of SVCs. Versus like maybe 10 roaches and some lings that melt instantly. Last game of Idra vs Morrow shows greatly another issue. How is Zerg supposed to figure out what T is doing? One Techlab doesen't mean anything, and since it's cheap, T can just throw it there for shits and giggles. These 2 are the main reasons I see Zergs losing, and why I lose myself. Since I can't figure out what T is doing, I need to either: 1. Take a blind guess and power some type of unit. 2. Tech to lair and ''prepare for everything'' but yeah, that usually ends with me getting steamrolled. For example if your going for Hydralisks and he actually went for a Bio push, it's straight GG. If you went Roaches expecting a Marine / Hellion push, but he actually went Banshees, it's usually GG. (Not maybe straight away but the economic damage you will take is great.) I like Day9, he's my favourite caster. But frankly, his play in HDH wasn't impressive, and I doubt his play in the future will be impressive either. He just isn't that competitive. Anyone has his account name to check where does he lay in points now? Anything under 1k would be dissapointing tbh. I think Day9 just tries to stay neutral. Which is understandable, but that doesen't make him credible imo. The whine needs to stop, every zerg i play on the ladder doesnt GG, but instead goes "Terran imba, play a real race", as if that was the reason he lost.
So you beat every zerg on ladder? Sounds balanced to me 
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On September 13 2010 05:11 GhoSt[shield] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2010 17:41 Deadlyfish wrote:
Also, someone said that Day9 isnt very credible in sc2, and they'd rather listen to IdrA about balance? Ever considered IdrA might be very biased, seeing as he plays Zerg? If i was a pro Zerg player i'd just say that every other race besides my own was OP, why wouldnt I? Better race = more $$.
Watch this interview with IdrA. He explicitly states that when anything he feels is imbalanced in the game, regardless of which race he is playing, he will point it out. So its not about some personal bias simply to make the game easier for him to win tournaments with his race, it is about the long-term solution to have a truly balanced and enjoyable game. IdrA fanclub interview
We should also note that while Idra feels that Zerg is underpowered he doesn't make any claims on why, only that some change is warranted, and commenting on issues with the Matchup. Which is exactly what Day9 is saying, and exactly what Zerg whiners are not, as they specifically advocate specific nerfs against specific races.
Also Idra and many other prominent zerg feel that PvZ is more imbalanced then TvZ, and no half decent player has complained about common topics of QQ (like marauders) for a good half of the beta and retail now.
but i do have to dissagree with what he said about protoss being the strongest... who the hell is saying toss is stronger then terran right now?
Idra, most top Korean Zerg, as well as racial representation in major tournaments (GSL for instance).
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On September 13 2010 05:11 GhoSt[shield] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2010 17:41 Deadlyfish wrote:
Also, someone said that Day9 isnt very credible in sc2, and they'd rather listen to IdrA about balance? Ever considered IdrA might be very biased, seeing as he plays Zerg? If i was a pro Zerg player i'd just say that every other race besides my own was OP, why wouldnt I? Better race = more $$.
Watch this interview with IdrA. He explicitly states that when anything he feels is imbalanced in the game, regardless of which race he is playing, he will point it out. So its not about some personal bias simply to make the game easier for him to win tournaments with his race, it is about the long-term solution to have a truly balanced and enjoyable game. IdrA fanclub interview
On September 12 2010 19:47 Seraph.yongweihua wrote:
These Idra fan boys who claim Idra would never say anything anything is balanced or imbalanced if it wasn't seem to forget in the beta he claimed roaches were fine and was pissed about the roach nerf.
Yes, he now admits that roaches were too OP and did need some type of nerfing, but at the time he complained because his favourite unit compo, roach hydra, was being nerfed.
He just like all players will not admit things right away. He may admit that roach was overpowered now. But back then he wasn't so quick to.
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On September 13 2010 06:00 Half wrote:
We should also note that while Idra feels that Zerg is underpowered he doesn't make any claims on why, only that some change is warranted, and commenting on issues with the Matchup.
Also Idra and many other prominent zerg feel that PvZ is more imbalanced then TvZ
IdrA has made many claims as to why the ZvT MU is imba.
IdrA has never said that PvZ is more imba than TvZ. Where the hell are you getting this stuff?
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LOL the Sc1 vs Sc2 answer was so political. Very nice job avoiding that question Day 9  .
He's right about everything else though. I think people forget how imbalanced starcraft 1 was. There was absolutely no way for terran to beat carriers (bad upgrades + no goliath range), and Zerg muta ling had no counter. In fact in the very beginning of the game there was a glitch where Terran could lift his CC and float it right beside a mineral patch. This didn't even matter though, and if anything it just balanced the game cause of how terrible Terran was.
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On September 13 2010 04:44 Ballistixz wrote:
i agree with what he said about the expansions. blizz has heart of the swarm and legacy of the void to fix this game up. thats 2 or 3 years for blizz to get this game right. if the game is not fixed by the time legacy of the void comes out then everyone can quit SC2 because it never will be fixed.
but i do have to dissagree with what he said about protoss being the strongest... who the hell is saying toss is stronger then terran right now? if any good terran knows how to incorporate ghosts into there army mix against toss then there should be no way in hell those words should be uttered out of anyones mouth. not even day9s.
toss stronger then terrans indeed. that was a nice troll there day9 lol.
What's your point? Protoss has templars which storm and feedback ghosts and medivacs. It all comes down to who micros better, who gets their spells of the fastest, and who positions their units better. Isn't this what people want??????????????????????????????????????????? I thought we WANTEd micro rather than having every fight almost be predetermined by the amount of units and their composition. Are people like you ever happy? Oh right, Sc2 noobs....guess I have to adjust expectations.
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On September 13 2010 06:25 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 04:44 Ballistixz wrote:
i agree with what he said about the expansions. blizz has heart of the swarm and legacy of the void to fix this game up. thats 2 or 3 years for blizz to get this game right. if the game is not fixed by the time legacy of the void comes out then everyone can quit SC2 because it never will be fixed.
but i do have to dissagree with what he said about protoss being the strongest... who the hell is saying toss is stronger then terran right now? if any good terran knows how to incorporate ghosts into there army mix against toss then there should be no way in hell those words should be uttered out of anyones mouth. not even day9s.
toss stronger then terrans indeed. that was a nice troll there day9 lol. What's your point? Protoss has templars which storm and feedback ghosts and medivacs. It all comes down to who micros better, who gets their spells of the fastest, and who positions their units better. Isn't this what people want??????????????????????????????????????????? I thought we WANTEd micro rather than having every fight almost be predetermined by the amount of units and their composition. Are people like you ever happy? Oh right, Sc2 noobs....guess I have to adjust expectations.
Why so angry? Your rant really had nothing to do with what you said. I think his point was that in a PvT match with two decent players, ghosts will own the P (not saying whether I agree, I just think that was his point).
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On September 12 2010 17:02 Damnesiac wrote:
So who do i listen to... Day[9].. hasn't won anything in sc2 really, and supposedly barely plays at all, OR players who were better than him in sc1 and are far better than him in sc2 with more knowledge. I like day9 in sc1 because he had credibility and experience to back up whatever you said. In sc2 he is just some sort of master of extrapolation with no evidence what so ever. IdrA gives solid reasoning for all his points and his predictions in every field have super accurate results. Not only that but many top level players including some terrans agree that there is imbalance. I guess I am just too demanding of people who make pretty ballsy claims when there arguement is ' We are going to see this happen then this happen and then this will happen '
Someone correct me if i'm wrong but i swear Day said in one of his dailies he was very highly ranked on his secret laddering account. I THINK he said like top 15 in the world but don't quote me on that.
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On September 13 2010 06:33 vol_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2010 17:02 Damnesiac wrote:
So who do i listen to... Day[9].. hasn't won anything in sc2 really, and supposedly barely plays at all, OR players who were better than him in sc1 and are far better than him in sc2 with more knowledge. I like day9 in sc1 because he had credibility and experience to back up whatever you said. In sc2 he is just some sort of master of extrapolation with no evidence what so ever. IdrA gives solid reasoning for all his points and his predictions in every field have super accurate results. Not only that but many top level players including some terrans agree that there is imbalance. I guess I am just too demanding of people who make pretty ballsy claims when there arguement is ' We are going to see this happen then this happen and then this will happen ' Someone correct me if i'm wrong but i swear Day said in one of his dailies he was very highly ranked on his secret laddering account. I THINK he said like top 15 in the world but don't quote me on that.
Lol day9 is not top 15 in the world. Not top 200 in the world. Maybe top 15 in his NA diamond division >>
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day9 was high enough of a caliber in bw that if he actually tried in sc2, he could easily become one of the best
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On September 12 2010 16:43 Sfydjklm wrote:
how can zergs start winning once they figure out how to open safely if zerg 200/200 is inferior to every other race by a large margin?
That logic actually brings a lot more concern than relief because once protoss/terran figure out good macro builds with harrassment options the imbalances will manifest themselves even worse.
And also wc3 is a horrible example of blizzard knowing how to balance a game;(
Zerg lategame isn't inferior, it's superior. Ultras are the best unit in the game, and the zerg has the best ways of reinforcing currently in the game. Don't spout out stuff you know nothing about.
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I wouldn't say the game is completely balanced but for a game so early in development its probably the best balanced RTS in history. I remember in beta when everyone claimed that pure mech was unstoppable vs zerg now no one does it anymore. What's changed since then balance wise? Absolutely nothing. So unless there's a strat that holds up for more than a couple of weeks as being "imbalanced" I wouldn't rush to call it broken. I do think Marauders could use a nerf to building damage and zerg could use a small boost in the early game but other than that I have no real complaints balance wise which I think is pretty damn good for such a new game. If people want to see an unbalanced game see SC or War3 at release....other than that stop whining so hard and look at things objectively.
Oh and are people seriously complaining about P being unbalanced now? I just have to ROFL at that....that's how u know a game is balanced well. When nothing is changed balance wise and things suddenly magically become imbalanced because a few players mention it in a random interview. I'd say SC2 is in pretty good shape.
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On September 13 2010 06:36 _Darwin_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 06:33 vol_ wrote:On September 12 2010 17:02 Damnesiac wrote:
So who do i listen to... Day[9].. hasn't won anything in sc2 really, and supposedly barely plays at all, OR players who were better than him in sc1 and are far better than him in sc2 with more knowledge. I like day9 in sc1 because he had credibility and experience to back up whatever you said. In sc2 he is just some sort of master of extrapolation with no evidence what so ever. IdrA gives solid reasoning for all his points and his predictions in every field have super accurate results. Not only that but many top level players including some terrans agree that there is imbalance. I guess I am just too demanding of people who make pretty ballsy claims when there arguement is ' We are going to see this happen then this happen and then this will happen ' Someone correct me if i'm wrong but i swear Day said in one of his dailies he was very highly ranked on his secret laddering account. I THINK he said like top 15 in the world but don't quote me on that. Lol day9 is not top 15 in the world. Not top 200 in the world. Maybe top 15 in his NA diamond division >>
Yea it does sound very unlikely, i must investigate this particular daily and discover the truth.
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wait, 200 zerg is weaker than terran? what army compositions should each side have, cause it seems to me like the battles go for whichever side has the terrain advantage (open space +creep means zerg rolls over me for example). also ultralisks are just ownage...
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On September 13 2010 06:25 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 04:44 Ballistixz wrote:
i agree with what he said about the expansions. blizz has heart of the swarm and legacy of the void to fix this game up. thats 2 or 3 years for blizz to get this game right. if the game is not fixed by the time legacy of the void comes out then everyone can quit SC2 because it never will be fixed.
but i do have to dissagree with what he said about protoss being the strongest... who the hell is saying toss is stronger then terran right now? if any good terran knows how to incorporate ghosts into there army mix against toss then there should be no way in hell those words should be uttered out of anyones mouth. not even day9s.
toss stronger then terrans indeed. that was a nice troll there day9 lol. What's your point? Protoss has templars which storm and feedback ghosts and medivacs. It all comes down to who micros better, who gets their spells of the fastest, and who positions their units better. Isn't this what people want??????????????????????????????????????????? I thought we WANTEd micro rather than having every fight almost be predetermined by the amount of units and their composition. Are people like you ever happy? Oh right, Sc2 noobs....guess I have to adjust expectations.
u mad bro?
emp is a AoE insta cast skill with a pretty decent range. u can get 5+ templars with one emp. feed back cannot compare. u need to indivually select each ghost and u will have to decide on rather to feed back or to storm. in that amount of time 1 ghost can fuck over every single Templar u have.
in other words, terrans dont have to micro. they press w/e the fucking hotkey is for emp and click on a group units/temps. anyone can do it. with feed back you have to manually select each ghost and that can be hard if the ghosts are cloaked and you better have a damn high APM.
also feed back in general is not as good as storm, so most protosses opt for just storming a army rather then taking the wasted time to find ghost and feed backing them in a army.
so if it all comes down to "who gets there spells off faster" terran will come ahead every time against toss. like i said emp=insta cast+AoE. and the AoE isnt at all small. usually u can get a entire toss army emped with just 2 emps. and as for storm? well, im zerg and i can easily dodge storms with hydras OFF creep. so how easily do u think stimmed marines/marauders will dodge storms?
/end of conversation.
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On September 13 2010 06:21 _Darwin_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 06:00 Half wrote:
We should also note that while Idra feels that Zerg is underpowered he doesn't make any claims on why, only that some change is warranted, and commenting on issues with the Matchup.
Also Idra and many other prominent zerg feel that PvZ is more imbalanced then TvZ IdrA has made many claims as to why the ZvT MU is imba. IdrA has never said that PvZ is more imba than TvZ. Where the hell are you getting this stuff?
He alluded to something along those lines in a few posts about about 3-4 weeks ago on here.
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On September 13 2010 07:00 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2010 06:25 SubtleArt wrote:On September 13 2010 04:44 Ballistixz wrote:
i agree with what he said about the expansions. blizz has heart of the swarm and legacy of the void to fix this game up. thats 2 or 3 years for blizz to get this game right. if the game is not fixed by the time legacy of the void comes out then everyone can quit SC2 because it never will be fixed.
but i do have to dissagree with what he said about protoss being the strongest... who the hell is saying toss is stronger then terran right now? if any good terran knows how to incorporate ghosts into there army mix against toss then there should be no way in hell those words should be uttered out of anyones mouth. not even day9s.
toss stronger then terrans indeed. that was a nice troll there day9 lol. What's your point? Protoss has templars which storm and feedback ghosts and medivacs. It all comes down to who micros better, who gets their spells of the fastest, and who positions their units better. Isn't this what people want??????????????????????????????????????????? I thought we WANTEd micro rather than having every fight almost be predetermined by the amount of units and their composition. Are people like you ever happy? Oh right, Sc2 noobs....guess I have to adjust expectations. u mad bro? emp is a AoE insta cast skill with a pretty decent range. u can get 5+ templars with one emp. feed back cannot compare. u need to indivually select each ghost and u will have to decide on rather to feed back or to storm. in that amount of time 1 ghost can fuck over every single Templar u have. in other words, terrans dont have to micro. they press w/e the fucking hotkey is for emp and click on a group units/temps. anyone can do it. with feed back you have to manually select each ghost and that can be hard if the ghosts are cloaked and you better have a damn high APM. also feed back in general is not as good as storm, so most protosses opt for just storming a army rather then taking the wasted time to find ghost and feed backing them in a army. so if it all comes down to "who gets there spells off faster" terran will come ahead every time against toss. like i said emp=insta cast+AoE. and the AoE isnt at all small. usually u can get a entire toss army emped with just 2 emps. and as for storm? well, im zerg and i can easily dodge storms with hydras OFF creep. so how easily do u think stimmed marines/marauders will dodge storms? /end of conversation.
That doesn't make sense, 2 emps sure could get like 10 templars(if in ball), but saying it can get an entire toss army is just stupid. And storms are amazing against marines, not so much marauders.
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EPT
