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On July 01 2012 01:35 ToAn8 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 01:33 iNcontroL wrote:
the last 2 SOTG's sucked and we were overly mean/rude to people in both of those. We will do better ! ! ! ! !
BUT
if you keep talking about this I will beat you up, steal your lunch money and give you a swirlie whilst wearing a leather gracket and stone washed jeans. if only you get out of your chair
In many peoples opinion the best way for the show to do better would be for you to step aside as it seems time and time again your inability to mature up reduces the show to a pantomine. This used to be the very best show in SC scene bar none and now its turning into 2 hour waste of peoples time.
What exactly are you going to do better? Why should we trust you and stop talking about your poor behaviour in front of 10k people just so you can do it all again in 2-3 shows. TB last week, Avilo this, whose next? Everybody makes mistakes but you just keep on going, ridiculing people like its a sport and counting the times on that abacus.
Also you are supposed to be Team Captain for EG and consequently because you are in a position of leadership should be held more accountable for your actions than that of Idra.
Your first response was not really apologetic at all and it was only after further days worth of commentary (you would call it pitch forks) from viewers plus likes of Kennigit that you are now backtracking. Are you sincerely sorry or are you just playing lip service hoping this goes away until your bad side rears again?
Lastly during the Orb issue you were complaining to people not to talk to sponsors because it would hurt eSports. Well , do you really think the likes of Coca Cola Management would watch last few episodes of SotG and think wow this would be a great market to invest some sponsorship $$ into? Think long and hard about this side of you, humble up a bit, act more like your far maturer better half (Anna) because you do have alot of potential. You casted great at Dreamhack...thats the side we want to see.
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On July 01 2012 01:33 iNcontroL wrote:
the last 2 SOTG's sucked and we were overly mean/rude to people in both of those. We will do better ! ! ! ! !
BUT
if you keep talking about this I will beat you up, steal your lunch money and give you a swirlie whilst wearing a leather gracket and stone washed jeans.
No pressure, we are privileged to have players talking about the game and that sotg exist as its purely voluntarily so you can do what you want as it's your show and have no obligations to us n_n!! Looking forward to next sotg and your run at homestorycup, really hope you deal with having too much respect for your opponent and make every decision ruthlessly and play to you optimal level !! We're all cheering for you !
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the last two episodes actually made me not wanna watch it anymore :/
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Not that this counts for anything but why is it that every episode, there is so much negativity aimed at the community/less popular players, as well as mocking legitimate arguments (recently to terran side of things, before it was the ZvP discussions with IdrA). Don't get me wrong, I love what you guys do and have done for this game and its community, but it is that very community that made you the 'stars' you are right now. I wish there was a bit more respect / open-mindedness towards other players rather than drama and dismissive humour.
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On July 01 2012 01:33 iNcontroL wrote:
the last 2 SOTG's sucked and we were overly mean/rude to people in both of those. We will do better ! ! ! ! !
BUT
if you keep talking about this I will beat you up, steal your lunch money and give you a swirlie whilst wearing a leather gracket and stone washed jeans.
lmao. its just funny that you guys bring on avilo reluctantly and it turns out idra is the one being a complete ass hat the whole time. i enjoy watching sotg because of you , tyler , artosis , and random guests that have good things to say and will watch regardless if idra is on or not but idk what the point is of having a balance discussion with someone so bias'd and stubborn as idra. listening to him talk about zvt sounds like he has no idea of how the current metagame even works, and he acts like hes some all knowing being about the game when his play / results have been nothing but shit for i dont even know how long now.
DRG said himself in tvz that aslong as he doesnt make a huge fuckup he feels he ll win 100% of the games. Too bad he doesnt speak good enough english to have a debate with idra on the current matchup and why whatever idra is saying is wrong. But then again im sure even someone of DRG's skill level / knowledge wouldnt be enough to make idra budge on the current state of the matchup.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On July 01 2012 01:54 Ireniicus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 01:35 ToAn8 wrote:On July 01 2012 01:33 iNcontroL wrote:
the last 2 SOTG's sucked and we were overly mean/rude to people in both of those. We will do better ! ! ! ! !
BUT
if you keep talking about this I will beat you up, steal your lunch money and give you a swirlie whilst wearing a leather gracket and stone washed jeans. if only you get out of your chair In many peoples opinion the best way for the show to do better would be for you to step aside as it seems time and time again your inability to mature up reduces the show to a pantomine. This used to be the very best show in SC scene bar none and now its turning into 2 hour waste of peoples time. What exactly are you going to do better? Why should we trust you and stop talking about your poor behaviour in front of 10k people just so you can do it all again in 2-3 shows. TB last week, Avilo this, whose next? Everybody makes mistakes but you just keep on going, ridiculing people like its a sport and counting the times on that abacus. Also you are supposed to be Team Captain for EG and consequently because you are in a position of leadership should be held more accountable for your actions than that of Idra. Your first response was not really apologetic at all and it was only after further days worth of commentary (you would call it pitch forks) from viewers plus likes of Kennigit that you are now backtracking. Are you sincerely sorry or are you just playing lip service hoping this goes away until your bad side rears again? Lastly during the Orb issue you were complaining to people not to talk to sponsors because it would hurt eSports. Well , do you really think the likes of Coca Cola Management would watch last few episodes of SotG and think wow this would be a great market to invest some sponsorship $$ into? Think long and hard about this side of you, humble up a bit, act more like your far maturer better half (Anna) because you do have alot of potential. You casted great at Dreamhack...thats the side we want to see.
No.. I didn't back track at all. Go read my post.. I said it was a bad episode and we "mia rose'd" it. As far as you thinking I need to "step aside" bitch please, I make this show  If you go back in time and watch the episode where I yell at Nony you realize I am human and step over boundaries from time to time! But I am still pretty awesome and I still deliver a good show. To think otherwise would be very short-sighted.
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On July 01 2012 01:54 Ireniicus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 01:35 ToAn8 wrote:On July 01 2012 01:33 iNcontroL wrote:
the last 2 SOTG's sucked and we were overly mean/rude to people in both of those. We will do better ! ! ! ! !
BUT
if you keep talking about this I will beat you up, steal your lunch money and give you a swirlie whilst wearing a leather gracket and stone washed jeans. if only you get out of your chair In many peoples opinion the best way for the show to do better would be for you to step aside as it seems time and time again your inability to mature up reduces the show to a pantomine. This used to be the very best show in SC scene bar none and now its turning into 2 hour waste of peoples time. What exactly are you going to do better? Why should we trust you and stop talking about your poor behaviour in front of 10k people just so you can do it all again in 2-3 shows. TB last week, Avilo this, whose next? Everybody makes mistakes but you just keep on going, ridiculing people like its a sport and counting the times on that abacus. Also you are supposed to be Team Captain for EG and consequently because you are in a position of leadership should be held more accountable for your actions than that of Idra. Your first response was not really apologetic at all and it was only after further days worth of commentary (you would call it pitch forks) from viewers plus likes of Kennigit that you are now backtracking. Are you sincerely sorry or are you just playing lip service hoping this goes away until your bad side rears again? Lastly during the Orb issue you were complaining to people not to talk to sponsors because it would hurt eSports. Well , do you really think the likes of Coca Cola Management would watch last few episodes of SotG and think wow this would be a great market to invest some sponsorship $$ into? Think long and hard about this side of you, humble up a bit, act more like your far maturer better half (Anna) because you do have alot of potential. You casted great at Dreamhack...thats the side we want to see.
Guy does say it well. But again the best way to show SOTG that you are unhappy and want change is to simply not watch it. If they have 100 viewers watching the show for a few episodes, they are gonna change.
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On July 01 2012 01:18 Mozdk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 00:59 Quotidian wrote:On July 01 2012 00:44 Facultyadjutant wrote:On July 01 2012 00:38 Prox wrote:
A guy like Qxc doesn't dare to stand up against Idra, so their balance discussion is pointless.
The moment Idra will ever run into any resistance he just cries and tries to escape into bad mannerism.
Why do people still take him serious? Why do you bring this? Qxc can't win the debate, because he is a rational being who has a rationally taking for account that not enough time has passed and that terrans haven't tried new things. Coupled with the fact that gsl terrans are changing and it's working more and more. How can you possibly expect one to ''win'' the debate, or perform ones arguments as superior when the proof of burden lies on him, and not enough time has went by to gather it. Qxc is being completely rational and civil about this, and the criticizing in general just baffles me as angry twats who equal retorts with ''winning'' the argument. Pure poison are these people, especially as most of them take liberty in twisting and interpreting Qxc's words. I though QXC really won the debate by Idra-selfownage anyway. All the time he was saying "go 3 OC, go 3 OC" but then he brought up how zergs in Korea are beating 3 OC builds by all-ing, which means the answer obviously isn't 3 OC. Oh my. I will keep it simple and say I don't like this post. Here's why: Just because K Zergs have found a weakness in a build doesn't mean it wasn't the answer to the first problem. T has a problem that Z can drone to heavy and freely. So T goes 3 OC early and builds a ton of SCVs so their eco is strong too. And you thing there should be nothing the Z can do about it? Let me put it simple. If I am playing a PvZ and Z goes Mutas and I make Blink stalkers... Should it then be impossible for Z to make infestors at that point? It's like you think T should have a unit or a way to play that Zerg can't deal with and that is just horrible. They metagame and every individuel game is "supposed" to be "I do something, so you do something to counter, so I do something to counter-counter". That is STRATEGY. Just because K Zergs are smart and exploid a weakness in a T build doesn't make it imbalanced. Every build has weaknesses. Like Terrans early timings against P. P is weak from when stim finishes to they get splash.
You mean as if terran would have the queen? 
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Christ people are still on this? Avilo was an asshole, Idra was an asshole. Great show otherwise, now let's move on and stop acting like we're The National Enquirer.
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On July 01 2012 01:54 Ireniicus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 01:35 ToAn8 wrote:On July 01 2012 01:33 iNcontroL wrote:
the last 2 SOTG's sucked and we were overly mean/rude to people in both of those. We will do better ! ! ! ! !
BUT
if you keep talking about this I will beat you up, steal your lunch money and give you a swirlie whilst wearing a leather gracket and stone washed jeans. if only you get out of your chair In many peoples opinion the best way for the show to do better would be for you to step aside as it seems time and time again your inability to mature up reduces the show to a pantomine. This used to be the very best show in SC scene bar none and now its turning into 2 hour waste of peoples time. What exactly are you going to do better? Why should we trust you and stop talking about your poor behaviour in front of 10k people just so you can do it all again in 2-3 shows. TB last week, Avilo this, whose next? Everybody makes mistakes but you just keep on going, ridiculing people like its a sport and counting the times on that abacus. Also you are supposed to be Team Captain for EG and consequently because you are in a position of leadership should be held more accountable for your actions than that of Idra. Your first response was not really apologetic at all and it was only after further days worth of commentary (you would call it pitch forks) from viewers plus likes of Kennigit that you are now backtracking. Are you sincerely sorry or are you just playing lip service hoping this goes away until your bad side rears again? Lastly during the Orb issue you were complaining to people not to talk to sponsors because it would hurt eSports. Well , do you really think the likes of Coca Cola Management would watch last few episodes of SotG and think wow this would be a great market to invest some sponsorship $$ into? Think long and hard about this side of you, humble up a bit, act more like your far maturer better half (Anna) because you do have alot of potential. You casted great at Dreamhack...thats the side we want to see.
I'm sorry but this is overly dramatic. The discussion has been going on for days now and all points have been made. At this point, you should give it a rest because you aren't saying anything new or interesting. The hosts have been "punished" enough for this, it's no longer a big deal so maybe go do something worthwhile with your time.
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I don't understand all the hate that goes towards this show. Has the show EVER been really serious? Look through the archives or even just at random youtube clips. There are so many instances of them dicking around on the show, and you know what? THAT'S AWESOME. Honestly, ITG or LO3 are a bit more serious, and they do that well. State of the Game is a show you can watch and just relax and enjoy the idea of Starcraft with the odd nugget of interesting opinion or factoid or truth that comes out. I watch State of the Game for the entertainment value, and I think they all do a good job. JP hosts well, directing questions to people who haven't talked for a while and just keeping the show running behind the scenes the whole time. Incontrol is funny and smart. He's got that combination of being able to make fun of things while also making a point. He makes me laugh, and then think which is awesome. Tyler has fewer antics, but when he says something you listen because you know he's going to have a good point. And Artosis? Well he's Artosis 'nuff said.
If you really don't like the show anymore, stop watching. If you feel that strongly, then give them one less view. If you did that instead of watching and then bitching about it, wouldn't that hurt the show more because then they are getting less exposure? Aren't streams and videos success measured by how many viewers it has? Hate it or Love it, if you watch SotG, you are supporting it.
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On July 01 2012 01:33 Facultyadjutant wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 01:27 Quotidian wrote:On July 01 2012 01:18 Mozdk wrote:On July 01 2012 00:59 Quotidian wrote:On July 01 2012 00:44 Facultyadjutant wrote:On July 01 2012 00:38 Prox wrote:
A guy like Qxc doesn't dare to stand up against Idra, so their balance discussion is pointless.
The moment Idra will ever run into any resistance he just cries and tries to escape into bad mannerism.
Why do people still take him serious? Why do you bring this? Qxc can't win the debate, because he is a rational being who has a rationally taking for account that not enough time has passed and that terrans haven't tried new things. Coupled with the fact that gsl terrans are changing and it's working more and more. How can you possibly expect one to ''win'' the debate, or perform ones arguments as superior when the proof of burden lies on him, and not enough time has went by to gather it. Qxc is being completely rational and civil about this, and the criticizing in general just baffles me as angry twats who equal retorts with ''winning'' the argument. Pure poison are these people, especially as most of them take liberty in twisting and interpreting Qxc's words. I though QXC really won the debate by Idra-selfownage anyway. All the time he was saying "go 3 OC, go 3 OC" but then he brought up how zergs in Korea are beating 3 OC builds by all-ing, which means the answer obviously isn't 3 OC. It's like you think T should have a unit or a way to play that Zerg can't deal with and that is just horrible. They metagame and every individuel game is "supposed" to be "I do something, so you do something to counter, so I do something to counter-counter". That is STRATEGY. Just because K Zergs are smart and exploid a weakness in a T build doesn't make it imbalanced. Every build has weaknesses. Like Terrans early timings against P. P is weak from when stim finishes to they get splash. tvz and pvz are completely different match ups. There's no point in comparing them, And as the game currently stands, zerg should feel genuinely worried about for example hellions. But the recent patch shuts down everything until stim is done, like QXC said Heavy queen openings bring forward exploitable weaknesses themselves which idra pointed out. The fallacy is that opening hellions need to inherently do direct damage, but rather it is up to zerg to judge wether to be greedy or safe. Many zergs droned undisturbed even before the queen change, the queen range has had little to do with it. Rather it's the creep spread that is the problem. However that is easily solved by bringing two scv's that repair the hellions so you can continuously challenge the queens.
it's also a fallacy from Idra's side that heavy queen openings means hellion run-bys are easy. It depends on the map, zerg can still wall off with an evo and a spine and just relax a tiny bit on the droning, and so on. Hellion openings need to either do direct damage, limit creep, worry the zerg enough to make units instead of drones or give terran map control. They don't do any of these anymore, except give some map control on the terran's side of the map, which isn't that useful and doesn't last that long anyway. If terran had a strong lategame, zerg being much safer in the early game would be completely ok. You said in an earlier post that I don't look for solutions. Well, as far as I'm concerned there are none, bar actual rebalancing of the game.
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On July 01 2012 01:54 Ireniicus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 01:35 ToAn8 wrote:On July 01 2012 01:33 iNcontroL wrote:
the last 2 SOTG's sucked and we were overly mean/rude to people in both of those. We will do better ! ! ! ! !
BUT
if you keep talking about this I will beat you up, steal your lunch money and give you a swirlie whilst wearing a leather gracket and stone washed jeans. if only you get out of your chair In many peoples opinion the best way for the show to do better would be for you to step aside as it seems time and time again your inability to mature up reduces the show to a pantomine. This used to be the very best show in SC scene bar none and now its turning into 2 hour waste of peoples time. What exactly are you going to do better? Why should we trust you and stop talking about your poor behaviour in front of 10k people just so you can do it all again in 2-3 shows. TB last week, Avilo this, whose next? Everybody makes mistakes but you just keep on going, ridiculing people like its a sport and counting the times on that abacus. Also you are supposed to be Team Captain for EG and consequently because you are in a position of leadership should be held more accountable for your actions than that of Idra. Your first response was not really apologetic at all and it was only after further days worth of commentary (you would call it pitch forks) from viewers plus likes of Kennigit that you are now backtracking. Are you sincerely sorry or are you just playing lip service hoping this goes away until your bad side rears again? Lastly during the Orb issue you were complaining to people not to talk to sponsors because it would hurt eSports. Well , do you really think the likes of Coca Cola Management would watch last few episodes of SotG and think wow this would be a great market to invest some sponsorship $$ into? Think long and hard about this side of you, humble up a bit, act more like your far maturer better half (Anna) because you do have alot of potential. You casted great at Dreamhack...thats the side we want to see.
Some people are really super serious.
Calling for his resignation...hahaha.
IMPEACH!
(EDIT: Also what did they do to TB last week? Last week's show was fine iirc, except people were bitching that they wouldn't let Avilo on the show, hilariously)
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On July 01 2012 01:54 Ireniicus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 01:35 ToAn8 wrote:On July 01 2012 01:33 iNcontroL wrote:
the last 2 SOTG's sucked and we were overly mean/rude to people in both of those. We will do better ! ! ! ! !
BUT
if you keep talking about this I will beat you up, steal your lunch money and give you a swirlie whilst wearing a leather gracket and stone washed jeans. if only you get out of your chair In many peoples opinion the best way for the show to do better would be for you to step aside as it seems time and time again your inability to mature up reduces the show to a pantomine. This used to be the very best show in SC scene bar none and now its turning into 2 hour waste of peoples time. What exactly are you going to do better? Why should we trust you and stop talking about your poor behaviour in front of 10k people just so you can do it all again in 2-3 shows. TB last week, Avilo this, whose next? Everybody makes mistakes but you just keep on going, ridiculing people like its a sport and counting the times on that abacus. Also you are supposed to be Team Captain for EG and consequently because you are in a position of leadership should be held more accountable for your actions than that of Idra. Your first response was not really apologetic at all and it was only after further days worth of commentary (you would call it pitch forks) from viewers plus likes of Kennigit that you are now backtracking. Are you sincerely sorry or are you just playing lip service hoping this goes away until your bad side rears again? Lastly during the Orb issue you were complaining to people not to talk to sponsors because it would hurt eSports. Well , do you really think the likes of Coca Cola Management would watch last few episodes of SotG and think wow this would be a great market to invest some sponsorship $$ into? Think long and hard about this side of you, humble up a bit, act more like your far maturer better half (Anna) because you do have alot of potential. You casted great at Dreamhack...thats the side we want to see.
Your sponsor argument is very naive and lack a realistic perspective.
''In many peoples opinion the best way for the show to do better would be for you to step aside''
This I have a big problem with as it's purely anecdotal and gives the rest of the text a completely hostile tone and gives a light that you are chasing a personal agenda.
The guy at dreamhack you saw, is the same person you saw on sotg - Geoff Robinson.
Idra was beforehand given to debate the current TvZ atmosphere and it was stated that Avilo was explicitly not preferred and was not given the chance (Like many other terrans) as qxc was much better suited. The fault lays at JP for putting him on in an environment that had already stated that he was not welcome due to personal reasons and his lack of competence in the matchup compared to others.
The ridicule of other players are a fun ploy and you need to put in perspective that it's not about them discussing them and thus you are on these players side. The matter of fact is actually that the people on sotg knows each of the players they ridicule more than you, most of the time they know them firsthand in personal and thus have greater maneuver room to joke about them.
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how on earth is this still going on
avilo is a joke of a person, anyone who has watched him play, read anything hes written, or heard anything hes said knows that. he kind of tried to act presentable on the show, but he opened up trying to bitch at geoff and then as soon as i started talking he was talking over me and saying i agreed with him when i didnt.
i was very short with him because i know his past outside the show and know he's not worth dealing with. just because someone tones it down once they get a big stage to preach their bullshit from doesnt make them any less of a waste of time. jp brought him on for some cheap laughs, he shouldntve done that and hes apologized, both publicly and to me, and it wont happen again. but avilo isnt supposed to be taken seriously and the fact that this has generated pages of discussion is absurd.
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On July 01 2012 01:54 Ireniicus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 01:35 ToAn8 wrote:On July 01 2012 01:33 iNcontroL wrote:
the last 2 SOTG's sucked and we were overly mean/rude to people in both of those. We will do better ! ! ! ! !
BUT
if you keep talking about this I will beat you up, steal your lunch money and give you a swirlie whilst wearing a leather gracket and stone washed jeans. if only you get out of your chair In many peoples opinion the best way for the show to do better would be for you to step aside as it seems time and time again your inability to mature up reduces the show to a pantomine. This used to be the very best show in SC scene bar none and now its turning into 2 hour waste of peoples time. What exactly are you going to do better? Why should we trust you and stop talking about your poor behaviour in front of 10k people just so you can do it all again in 2-3 shows. TB last week, Avilo this, whose next? Everybody makes mistakes but you just keep on going, ridiculing people like its a sport and counting the times on that abacus. Also you are supposed to be Team Captain for EG and consequently because you are in a position of leadership should be held more accountable for your actions than that of Idra. Your first response was not really apologetic at all and it was only after further days worth of commentary (you would call it pitch forks) from viewers plus likes of Kennigit that you are now backtracking. Are you sincerely sorry or are you just playing lip service hoping this goes away until your bad side rears again? Lastly during the Orb issue you were complaining to people not to talk to sponsors because it would hurt eSports. Well , do you really think the likes of Coca Cola Management would watch last few episodes of SotG and think wow this would be a great market to invest some sponsorship $$ into? Think long and hard about this side of you, humble up a bit, act more like your far maturer better half (Anna) because you do have alot of potential. You casted great at Dreamhack...thats the side we want to see.
I have no idea why SC2 is the one community where people expect, no demand, professionalism and perfect role models or even think that we should aspire to that. I'm not saying its wrong to want it but people are trying to hurt the scene to get it while mainstream media would just laugh at how people are getting upset over such tiny things. I honestly have no idea what lives these people live where they must be completely cut off from the world/mainstream media that they have such unrealistic expectations.
I'm just glad the show isn't sponsored yet. My hope is that one day sponsors realize that these idiots would go apeshit for most of the talk shows on television/radio and take sick glee from making people fail professionally.
Frankly, SoTG has nothing to be apologetic about other than mia rosing it and I hope to god nothing happens to Geoff on the show or else those guys have won and the SC2 scene crumbles a bit more.
As elmizzt has posted before, djWheat wrote a great article on professionalism: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=168066
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On July 01 2012 02:10 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 01:33 Facultyadjutant wrote:On July 01 2012 01:27 Quotidian wrote:On July 01 2012 01:18 Mozdk wrote:On July 01 2012 00:59 Quotidian wrote:On July 01 2012 00:44 Facultyadjutant wrote:On July 01 2012 00:38 Prox wrote:
A guy like Qxc doesn't dare to stand up against Idra, so their balance discussion is pointless.
The moment Idra will ever run into any resistance he just cries and tries to escape into bad mannerism.
Why do people still take him serious? Why do you bring this? Qxc can't win the debate, because he is a rational being who has a rationally taking for account that not enough time has passed and that terrans haven't tried new things. Coupled with the fact that gsl terrans are changing and it's working more and more. How can you possibly expect one to ''win'' the debate, or perform ones arguments as superior when the proof of burden lies on him, and not enough time has went by to gather it. Qxc is being completely rational and civil about this, and the criticizing in general just baffles me as angry twats who equal retorts with ''winning'' the argument. Pure poison are these people, especially as most of them take liberty in twisting and interpreting Qxc's words. I though QXC really won the debate by Idra-selfownage anyway. All the time he was saying "go 3 OC, go 3 OC" but then he brought up how zergs in Korea are beating 3 OC builds by all-ing, which means the answer obviously isn't 3 OC. It's like you think T should have a unit or a way to play that Zerg can't deal with and that is just horrible. They metagame and every individuel game is "supposed" to be "I do something, so you do something to counter, so I do something to counter-counter". That is STRATEGY. Just because K Zergs are smart and exploid a weakness in a T build doesn't make it imbalanced. Every build has weaknesses. Like Terrans early timings against P. P is weak from when stim finishes to they get splash. tvz and pvz are completely different match ups. There's no point in comparing them, And as the game currently stands, zerg should feel genuinely worried about for example hellions. But the recent patch shuts down everything until stim is done, like QXC said Heavy queen openings bring forward exploitable weaknesses themselves which idra pointed out. The fallacy is that opening hellions need to inherently do direct damage, but rather it is up to zerg to judge wether to be greedy or safe. Many zergs droned undisturbed even before the queen change, the queen range has had little to do with it. Rather it's the creep spread that is the problem. However that is easily solved by bringing two scv's that repair the hellions so you can continuously challenge the queens. it's also a fallacy from Idra's side that heavy queen openings means hellion run-bys are easy. It depends on the map, zerg can still wall off with an evo and a spine and just relax a tiny bit on the droning, and so on. Hellion openings need to either do direct damage, limit creep, worry the zerg enough to make units instead of drones or give terran map control. They don't do any of these anymore, except give some map control on the terran's side of the map, which isn't that useful and doesn't last that long anyway. If terran had a strong lategame, zerg being much safer in the early game would be completely ok. You said in an earlier post that I don't look for solutions. Well, as far as I'm concerned there are none, bar actual rebalancing of the game.
That is because you are going on the premise that hellion is a unit that is to inherently perform those roles. And Idra didn't proclaim hellion run-bys are easy but rather that it is an option. An evo and a spine is direct damage, and has been the response for a long time. Zerg hasn't really ever been worried by hellion run-bys and made units, rather it has been covered with sim city and spine as you put forward. You also have options to limit creep using for example the qxc bunker or the ever more popular hellion/banshee as 6 queens shoot up detection. Or you can completely shut down creep spread by sending forward 1-2 scv's and repair the hellions to combat the queens and keep them in check.
You said in an earlier post that I don't look for solutions. Well, as far as I'm concerned there are none, bar actual rebalancing of the game
And this is a fallacy because there are options which have been showing success and these were brought forward by Idra which forced Qxc to whitdraw his rebuttal because these new solutions require further observation. Why you disregard encouragement to find new solutions to new issues flabbergast me as there is no plausible reason why old tools should work in a new environment.
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haha i love how idra has CJ as his favorite team <3
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On July 01 2012 02:25 IdrA wrote:
how on earth is this still going on
avilo isnt supposed to be taken seriously and the fact that this has generated pages of discussion is absurd.
it's cuz drama is most often the best thing the foreign sc2 scene has to offer for entertainment
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On July 01 2012 02:25 IdrA wrote:
how on earth is this still going on
avilo is a joke of a person, anyone who has watched him play, read anything hes written, or heard anything hes said knows that. he kind of tried to act presentable on the show, but he opened up trying to bitch at geoff and then as soon as i started talking he was talking over me and saying i agreed with him when i didnt.
i was very short with him because i know his past outside the show and know he's not worth dealing with. just because someone tones it down once they get a big stage to preach their bullshit from doesnt make them any less of a waste of time. jp brought him on for some cheap laughs, he shouldntve done that and hes apologized, both publicly and to me, and it wont happen again. but avilo isnt supposed to be taken seriously and the fact that this has generated pages of discussion is absurd.
Because people don't have that information and thus from an outsiders perspective it looks like the established agent is shutting down the little man by using ''illegitimate'' means.
You are on the premise that people know Avilo and have the same feelings about him like you do, but this just isn't the case. People who have little inside information have a rational reason to be upset about how he was treated. Also the lack of a definitive conclusion after the debate between you and Qxc gave people a chance to interpret the points made during said debate, rather then base their critique and thoughts on defined conclusions and findings; the void left by this leaves people for themselves to fill it.
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EPT
