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On July 01 2012 02:36 terranuapart wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:25 IdrA wrote:
how on earth is this still going on
avilo is a joke of a person, anyone who has watched him play, read anything hes written, or heard anything hes said knows that. he kind of tried to act presentable on the show, but he opened up trying to bitch at geoff and then as soon as i started talking he was talking over me and saying i agreed with him when i didnt.
i was very short with him because i know his past outside the show and know he's not worth dealing with. just because someone tones it down once they get a big stage to preach their bullshit from doesnt make them any less of a waste of time. jp brought him on for some cheap laughs, he shouldntve done that and hes apologized, both publicly and to me, and it wont happen again. but avilo isnt supposed to be taken seriously and the fact that this has generated pages of discussion is absurd. Because your one to talk about pasts lmao. he was preaching bullshit? he brought up alot of valid points and by how you responded to both him and qxc about them makes it look like u have no clue on the current metagame in tvz.. or maybe any matchup in that case because i cant remember the last game you've won. idk how you're supposed to be taken more seriously then avilo tbh. time for a change in mindset or youre losing and ignorant ways will continue , which people have been saying forever but i guess that hasnt clicked for you yet.
Even I beat Avilo easily, you lack realistic perspective of the players skill and understanding of the game.
Avilo, even tough he proclaimed the same things as Qxc brought them forward as definitive issues rather than Qxc who brought them forward as issues and than looked for options (Which Idra gave, both from his perspective and the koreans) to discuss them.
One was preaching, the other one was discussing.
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I don't think anyone should step aside. I think the SotG guys do, mostly, a great job.
However, you are not gamers anymore. You aren't even young men. You are public figures.
People in the public eye don't have the luxury of acting however they want. As boring as that may sound, it's the way it is. The responsibility resting on the shoulders of people like you extends far beyond your own public image. You guys know that.
I think this affects InC and JP more than anyone else involved. I'm a huge IdrA fan, but nobody takes him seriously when he speaks. The community at large listens to InC and JP, though.
I'm not calling for burning at the stake or whatever, and I am a huuuuuge fan of InC, but I think you guys (JP and InC) need to watch some of your peers and see how they are able to keep things professional, interesting, and funny at the same time. You do a great job at events, but notsomuch on SotG all the time. It's a balancing act, sure, but you don't have to be complete squares. Cleaning up in public is a pretty small concession for the privileges you guys enjoy.
Also, keep in mind that, though SotG is volunteer work, it is very much public. Not getting paid for doing the show doesn't mean your teams/employers aren't getting paid by your sponsors, whom you represent at all times, even when doing a free show.. and nobody likes a bully, regardless how big of a tool your victim is.
The lack of professionalism is really the only thing that can stand in the way of e-sports becoming bigger. Major sponsors aren't willing to have their names associated with negativity of any kind.
Tyler played the entire thing really well. His posts in this thread were very well-said also. You guys could take some notes.
In closing, good luck in the future, and despite my post, I really enjoy the show.
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On July 01 2012 02:41 Papulatus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:35 WilDMousE wrote:
Sorry to ask but can someone link me the "mia rose" episode that incontrol tends to talk about? Its the last episode in 2011 and something like 3+ hours long. Should stand out among the other episodes.
I still remember his rib-cracking joke along those lines:
"Yeah, he's the biggest asshole in SC2. After Mia Rose, obviously."
I always spat my coffee onto my keyboard, that was so unexpected...
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On July 01 2012 02:42 SMD wrote:
Morrows Thoughts on TvZ would be interesting, as he plays both sides of it.....
sorry but the eg guys would just bully me like they do at lan events
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On July 01 2012 02:01 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 01:54 Ireniicus wrote:On July 01 2012 01:35 ToAn8 wrote:On July 01 2012 01:33 iNcontroL wrote:
the last 2 SOTG's sucked and we were overly mean/rude to people in both of those. We will do better ! ! ! ! !
BUT
if you keep talking about this I will beat you up, steal your lunch money and give you a swirlie whilst wearing a leather gracket and stone washed jeans. if only you get out of your chair In many peoples opinion the best way for the show to do better would be for you to step aside as it seems time and time again your inability to mature up reduces the show to a pantomine. This used to be the very best show in SC scene bar none and now its turning into 2 hour waste of peoples time. What exactly are you going to do better? Why should we trust you and stop talking about your poor behaviour in front of 10k people just so you can do it all again in 2-3 shows. TB last week, Avilo this, whose next? Everybody makes mistakes but you just keep on going, ridiculing people like its a sport and counting the times on that abacus. Also you are supposed to be Team Captain for EG and consequently because you are in a position of leadership should be held more accountable for your actions than that of Idra. Your first response was not really apologetic at all and it was only after further days worth of commentary (you would call it pitch forks) from viewers plus likes of Kennigit that you are now backtracking. Are you sincerely sorry or are you just playing lip service hoping this goes away until your bad side rears again? Lastly during the Orb issue you were complaining to people not to talk to sponsors because it would hurt eSports. Well , do you really think the likes of Coca Cola Management would watch last few episodes of SotG and think wow this would be a great market to invest some sponsorship $$ into? Think long and hard about this side of you, humble up a bit, act more like your far maturer better half (Anna) because you do have alot of potential. You casted great at Dreamhack...thats the side we want to see. No.. I didn't back track at all. Go read my post.. I said it was a bad episode and we "mia rose'd" it. As far as you thinking I need to "step aside" bitch please, I make this show  If you go back in time and watch the episode where I yell at Nony you realize I am human and step over boundaries from time to time! But I am still pretty awesome and I still deliver a good show. To think otherwise would be very short-sighted.
What a humble attitude to have. JP is the one that actually makes the show, and for many episodes at the start and when it's popularity took off the show did just fine without you.
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On July 01 2012 02:41 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:32 Facultyadjutant wrote:On July 01 2012 02:25 IdrA wrote:
how on earth is this still going on
avilo is a joke of a person, anyone who has watched him play, read anything hes written, or heard anything hes said knows that. he kind of tried to act presentable on the show, but he opened up trying to bitch at geoff and then as soon as i started talking he was talking over me and saying i agreed with him when i didnt.
i was very short with him because i know his past outside the show and know he's not worth dealing with. just because someone tones it down once they get a big stage to preach their bullshit from doesnt make them any less of a waste of time. jp brought him on for some cheap laughs, he shouldntve done that and hes apologized, both publicly and to me, and it wont happen again. but avilo isnt supposed to be taken seriously and the fact that this has generated pages of discussion is absurd. Because people don't have that information and thus from an outsiders perspective it looks like the established agent is shutting down the little man by using ''illegitimate'' means. You are on the premise that people know Avilo and have the same feelings about him like you do, but this just isn't the case. People who have little inside information have a rational reason to be upset about how he was treated. Also the lack of a definitive conclusion after the debate between you and Qxc gave people a chance to interpret the points made during said debate, rather then base their critique and thoughts on defined conclusions and findings. Making a judgement given incomplete information is one thing, sometimes it cannot be avoided in the public eye. But for everyone to continue justifying that flawed judgement given what they should all know now having read this thread, that is the utmost of stupidity. It doesn't help that many members of this community fall victim to the fallacy inherent in an over-induglence of their own priviliged perspective provided via this and other forums. They think that because they can read a smattering of opinion as poorly concieved as their own that some sort of consensus has been reached, when in reality the bulk of silent readers here on TL are simply shaking their heads.
Fair point and I agree!! I proclaimed more why I thought people was still discussing it, which I think is to lack of information and the difficulty to gain it  But definitely I do agree and wish that people had the information easily or took some time to find it and not base everything on the first hand perceived information, but I don't blame them.
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On July 01 2012 02:45 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:42 SMD wrote:
Morrows Thoughts on TvZ would be interesting, as he plays both sides of it..... sorry but the eg guys would just bully me like they do at lan events
EGMorroW incoming?
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On July 01 2012 02:45 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:01 iNcontroL wrote:On July 01 2012 01:54 Ireniicus wrote:On July 01 2012 01:35 ToAn8 wrote:On July 01 2012 01:33 iNcontroL wrote:
the last 2 SOTG's sucked and we were overly mean/rude to people in both of those. We will do better ! ! ! ! !
BUT
if you keep talking about this I will beat you up, steal your lunch money and give you a swirlie whilst wearing a leather gracket and stone washed jeans. if only you get out of your chair In many peoples opinion the best way for the show to do better would be for you to step aside as it seems time and time again your inability to mature up reduces the show to a pantomine. This used to be the very best show in SC scene bar none and now its turning into 2 hour waste of peoples time. What exactly are you going to do better? Why should we trust you and stop talking about your poor behaviour in front of 10k people just so you can do it all again in 2-3 shows. TB last week, Avilo this, whose next? Everybody makes mistakes but you just keep on going, ridiculing people like its a sport and counting the times on that abacus. Also you are supposed to be Team Captain for EG and consequently because you are in a position of leadership should be held more accountable for your actions than that of Idra. Your first response was not really apologetic at all and it was only after further days worth of commentary (you would call it pitch forks) from viewers plus likes of Kennigit that you are now backtracking. Are you sincerely sorry or are you just playing lip service hoping this goes away until your bad side rears again? Lastly during the Orb issue you were complaining to people not to talk to sponsors because it would hurt eSports. Well , do you really think the likes of Coca Cola Management would watch last few episodes of SotG and think wow this would be a great market to invest some sponsorship $$ into? Think long and hard about this side of you, humble up a bit, act more like your far maturer better half (Anna) because you do have alot of potential. You casted great at Dreamhack...thats the side we want to see. No.. I didn't back track at all. Go read my post.. I said it was a bad episode and we "mia rose'd" it. As far as you thinking I need to "step aside" bitch please, I make this show If you go back in time and watch the episode where I yell at Nony you realize I am human and step over boundaries from time to time! But I am still pretty awesome and I still deliver a good show. To think otherwise would be very short-sighted. What a humble attitude to have. JP is the one that actually makes the show, and for many episodes at the start and when it's popularity took off the show did just fine without you.
He's joking you idiot. Look at the winky face after he says that.
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the avilo discussion will stop once SotG makes a new episode and gives us something new to talk about. following SC2 is like following wrestling, it's less about the action and more about the storylines. we need our drama!
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On July 01 2012 02:45 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:01 iNcontroL wrote:On July 01 2012 01:54 Ireniicus wrote:On July 01 2012 01:35 ToAn8 wrote:On July 01 2012 01:33 iNcontroL wrote:
the last 2 SOTG's sucked and we were overly mean/rude to people in both of those. We will do better ! ! ! ! !
BUT
if you keep talking about this I will beat you up, steal your lunch money and give you a swirlie whilst wearing a leather gracket and stone washed jeans. if only you get out of your chair In many peoples opinion the best way for the show to do better would be for you to step aside as it seems time and time again your inability to mature up reduces the show to a pantomine. This used to be the very best show in SC scene bar none and now its turning into 2 hour waste of peoples time. What exactly are you going to do better? Why should we trust you and stop talking about your poor behaviour in front of 10k people just so you can do it all again in 2-3 shows. TB last week, Avilo this, whose next? Everybody makes mistakes but you just keep on going, ridiculing people like its a sport and counting the times on that abacus. Also you are supposed to be Team Captain for EG and consequently because you are in a position of leadership should be held more accountable for your actions than that of Idra. Your first response was not really apologetic at all and it was only after further days worth of commentary (you would call it pitch forks) from viewers plus likes of Kennigit that you are now backtracking. Are you sincerely sorry or are you just playing lip service hoping this goes away until your bad side rears again? Lastly during the Orb issue you were complaining to people not to talk to sponsors because it would hurt eSports. Well , do you really think the likes of Coca Cola Management would watch last few episodes of SotG and think wow this would be a great market to invest some sponsorship $$ into? Think long and hard about this side of you, humble up a bit, act more like your far maturer better half (Anna) because you do have alot of potential. You casted great at Dreamhack...thats the side we want to see. No.. I didn't back track at all. Go read my post.. I said it was a bad episode and we "mia rose'd" it. As far as you thinking I need to "step aside" bitch please, I make this show If you go back in time and watch the episode where I yell at Nony you realize I am human and step over boundaries from time to time! But I am still pretty awesome and I still deliver a good show. To think otherwise would be very short-sighted. What a humble attitude to have. JP is the one that actually makes the show, and for many episodes at the start and when it's popularity took off the show did just fine without you.
Geoff is notoriously bad for providing unemotional and thus noninterpetable statements as hes a forum veteran and accustomed to that, but this is clearly a joke as stated above.
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On July 01 2012 02:27 Facultyadjutant wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:10 Quotidian wrote:On July 01 2012 01:33 Facultyadjutant wrote:On July 01 2012 01:27 Quotidian wrote:On July 01 2012 01:18 Mozdk wrote:On July 01 2012 00:59 Quotidian wrote:On July 01 2012 00:44 Facultyadjutant wrote:On July 01 2012 00:38 Prox wrote:
A guy like Qxc doesn't dare to stand up against Idra, so their balance discussion is pointless.
The moment Idra will ever run into any resistance he just cries and tries to escape into bad mannerism.
Why do people still take him serious? Why do you bring this? Qxc can't win the debate, because he is a rational being who has a rationally taking for account that not enough time has passed and that terrans haven't tried new things. Coupled with the fact that gsl terrans are changing and it's working more and more. How can you possibly expect one to ''win'' the debate, or perform ones arguments as superior when the proof of burden lies on him, and not enough time has went by to gather it. Qxc is being completely rational and civil about this, and the criticizing in general just baffles me as angry twats who equal retorts with ''winning'' the argument. Pure poison are these people, especially as most of them take liberty in twisting and interpreting Qxc's words. I though QXC really won the debate by Idra-selfownage anyway. All the time he was saying "go 3 OC, go 3 OC" but then he brought up how zergs in Korea are beating 3 OC builds by all-ing, which means the answer obviously isn't 3 OC. It's like you think T should have a unit or a way to play that Zerg can't deal with and that is just horrible. They metagame and every individuel game is "supposed" to be "I do something, so you do something to counter, so I do something to counter-counter". That is STRATEGY. Just because K Zergs are smart and exploid a weakness in a T build doesn't make it imbalanced. Every build has weaknesses. Like Terrans early timings against P. P is weak from when stim finishes to they get splash. tvz and pvz are completely different match ups. There's no point in comparing them, And as the game currently stands, zerg should feel genuinely worried about for example hellions. But the recent patch shuts down everything until stim is done, like QXC said Heavy queen openings bring forward exploitable weaknesses themselves which idra pointed out. The fallacy is that opening hellions need to inherently do direct damage, but rather it is up to zerg to judge wether to be greedy or safe. Many zergs droned undisturbed even before the queen change, the queen range has had little to do with it. Rather it's the creep spread that is the problem. However that is easily solved by bringing two scv's that repair the hellions so you can continuously challenge the queens. it's also a fallacy from Idra's side that heavy queen openings means hellion run-bys are easy. It depends on the map, zerg can still wall off with an evo and a spine and just relax a tiny bit on the droning, and so on. Hellion openings need to either do direct damage, limit creep, worry the zerg enough to make units instead of drones or give terran map control. They don't do any of these anymore, except give some map control on the terran's side of the map, which isn't that useful and doesn't last that long anyway. If terran had a strong lategame, zerg being much safer in the early game would be completely ok. You said in an earlier post that I don't look for solutions. Well, as far as I'm concerned there are none, bar actual rebalancing of the game. That is because you are going on the premise that hellion is a unit that is to inherently perform those roles. And Idra didn't proclaim hellion run-bys are easy but rather that it is an option. An evo and a spine is direct damage, and has been the response for a long time. Zerg hasn't really ever been worried by hellion run-bys and made units, rather it has been covered with sim city and spine as you put forward. You also have options to limit creep using for example the qxc bunker or the ever more popular hellion/banshee as 6 queens shoot up detection. Or you can completely shut down creep spread by sending forward 1-2 scv's and repair the hellions to combat the queens and keep them in check.
the reason I'm going with that "premise" is because that's what hellions have been doing since the release of the game. If it's not a unit that's supposed to fulfill one or more of these tasks, then what is it supposed to do? We already have marines to drop from medivacs, and Blizzard's design goal is to have as few overlapping roles between units as possible.
An evo and a spine isn't "damage." It's like calling a depot wall-off or a bunker "damage." Zergs want evolution chambers anyway, and a spine would let them get even more drones even safer. If the zerg made 3+ spines, then maybe we can start talking "damage" but one spine is completely reasonable trade for getting to make more drones
the "QXC bunker" doesn't really work for anything other than stopping creep and leaves terran open to counter aggression. 1-2 svcs repairing hellions won't be enough to shut down creep
Show nested quote +You said in an earlier post that I don't look for solutions. Well, as far as I'm concerned there are none, bar actual rebalancing of the game And this is a fallacy because there are options which have been showing success and these were brought forward by Idra which forced Qxc to whitdraw his rebuttal because these new solutions require further observation. Why you disregard encouragement to find new solutions to new issues flabbergast me as there is no plausible reason why old tools should work in a new environment.
terran's success in Korea after the patch is debatable. The reason I disregard what you're talking about is because the queen change was never needed in the first place and it threw a match up that was as close to balanced as you can expect in a game like this out of whack. Zerg weren't actually having big problems with hellions, and there was absolutely no reason change the queen. They had problems scouting, and that change was understandable and extremely overdue. But having "figure it out" be the default solution to a bad move by blizzard just reeks of beaten-wife syndrome in my book.
Anyway, I doubt we're ever going to agree on this, so there's no point in discussing it. I still think QXC had a more solid argument than Idra, it's just that QXC is more open and flexible to what the other person is saying, so it looked like he was backing off while I really don't think he was.
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On July 01 2012 01:54 Ireniicus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 01:35 ToAn8 wrote:On July 01 2012 01:33 iNcontroL wrote:
the last 2 SOTG's sucked and we were overly mean/rude to people in both of those. We will do better ! ! ! ! !
BUT
if you keep talking about this I will beat you up, steal your lunch money and give you a swirlie whilst wearing a leather gracket and stone washed jeans. if only you get out of your chair In many peoples opinion the best way for the show to do better would be for you to step aside as it seems time and time again your inability to mature up reduces the show to a pantomine. This used to be the very best show in SC scene bar none and now its turning into 2 hour waste of peoples time. What exactly are you going to do better? Why should we trust you and stop talking about your poor behaviour in front of 10k people just so you can do it all again in 2-3 shows. TB last week, Avilo this, whose next? Everybody makes mistakes but you just keep on going, ridiculing people like its a sport and counting the times on that abacus. Also you are supposed to be Team Captain for EG and consequently because you are in a position of leadership should be held more accountable for your actions than that of Idra. Your first response was not really apologetic at all and it was only after further days worth of commentary (you would call it pitch forks) from viewers plus likes of Kennigit that you are now backtracking. Are you sincerely sorry or are you just playing lip service hoping this goes away until your bad side rears again? Lastly during the Orb issue you were complaining to people not to talk to sponsors because it would hurt eSports. Well , do you really think the likes of Coca Cola Management would watch last few episodes of SotG and think wow this would be a great market to invest some sponsorship $$ into? Think long and hard about this side of you, humble up a bit, act more like your far maturer better half (Anna) because you do have alot of potential. You casted great at Dreamhack...thats the side we want to see.
I somehow agree, but you make everything seem so black and white while it isnt. Not everybody likes to take heads when a mistake is made. I agree with you that lately the show has been way too aggressive to everyone and sometimes rude which doesnt look good when its coming from community head figures but we could just constructively critisize rather than ask for resignation of the people who provide the show or for the show to stop. What they ve been doing the last episodes (ridiculing , making fun of people etc) is not something the majority approves and I think its something they have already understood and will work on. I dont understand why people are so absolute when it comes to critisism , the majority has already expressed themselves, keep watching the show - if they dont change , stop watching it.
For me Geoff is one of the basic reasons this show has been as successful as it is (was if you want , tho i think it still is) even tho he has a really big load of haters around . He made a mistake , or better , the crew of SotG made a mistake , we pointed out we dont like it , they apologized so lets hope they change it . I believe its still a great show and they can even work on making it better as long as they avoid those kind of stuff...
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On July 01 2012 02:32 Facultyadjutant wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:25 IdrA wrote:
how on earth is this still going on
avilo is a joke of a person, anyone who has watched him play, read anything hes written, or heard anything hes said knows that. he kind of tried to act presentable on the show, but he opened up trying to bitch at geoff and then as soon as i started talking he was talking over me and saying i agreed with him when i didnt.
i was very short with him because i know his past outside the show and know he's not worth dealing with. just because someone tones it down once they get a big stage to preach their bullshit from doesnt make them any less of a waste of time. jp brought him on for some cheap laughs, he shouldntve done that and hes apologized, both publicly and to me, and it wont happen again. but avilo isnt supposed to be taken seriously and the fact that this has generated pages of discussion is absurd. Because people don't have that information and thus from an outsiders perspective it looks like the established agent is shutting down the little man by using ''illegitimate'' means. You are on the premise that people know Avilo and have the same feelings about him like you do, but this just isn't the case. People who have little inside information have a rational reason to be upset about how he was treated. Also the lack of a definitive conclusion after the debate between you and Qxc gave people a chance to interpret the points made during said debate, rather then base their critique and thoughts on defined conclusions and findings; the void left by this leaves people for themselves to fill it.
If by "inside information" you mean "public information that was laid out in this very thread last week" then I agree.
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On July 01 2012 02:51 Facultyadjutant wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:45 Duravi wrote:On July 01 2012 02:01 iNcontroL wrote:On July 01 2012 01:54 Ireniicus wrote:On July 01 2012 01:35 ToAn8 wrote:On July 01 2012 01:33 iNcontroL wrote:
the last 2 SOTG's sucked and we were overly mean/rude to people in both of those. We will do better ! ! ! ! !
BUT
if you keep talking about this I will beat you up, steal your lunch money and give you a swirlie whilst wearing a leather gracket and stone washed jeans. if only you get out of your chair In many peoples opinion the best way for the show to do better would be for you to step aside as it seems time and time again your inability to mature up reduces the show to a pantomine. This used to be the very best show in SC scene bar none and now its turning into 2 hour waste of peoples time. What exactly are you going to do better? Why should we trust you and stop talking about your poor behaviour in front of 10k people just so you can do it all again in 2-3 shows. TB last week, Avilo this, whose next? Everybody makes mistakes but you just keep on going, ridiculing people like its a sport and counting the times on that abacus. Also you are supposed to be Team Captain for EG and consequently because you are in a position of leadership should be held more accountable for your actions than that of Idra. Your first response was not really apologetic at all and it was only after further days worth of commentary (you would call it pitch forks) from viewers plus likes of Kennigit that you are now backtracking. Are you sincerely sorry or are you just playing lip service hoping this goes away until your bad side rears again? Lastly during the Orb issue you were complaining to people not to talk to sponsors because it would hurt eSports. Well , do you really think the likes of Coca Cola Management would watch last few episodes of SotG and think wow this would be a great market to invest some sponsorship $$ into? Think long and hard about this side of you, humble up a bit, act more like your far maturer better half (Anna) because you do have alot of potential. You casted great at Dreamhack...thats the side we want to see. No.. I didn't back track at all. Go read my post.. I said it was a bad episode and we "mia rose'd" it. As far as you thinking I need to "step aside" bitch please, I make this show If you go back in time and watch the episode where I yell at Nony you realize I am human and step over boundaries from time to time! But I am still pretty awesome and I still deliver a good show. To think otherwise would be very short-sighted. What a humble attitude to have. JP is the one that actually makes the show, and for many episodes at the start and when it's popularity took off the show did just fine without you. Geoff is notoriously bad for providing unemotional and thus noninterpetable statements as hes a forum veteran and accustomed to that, but this is clearly a joke as stated above.
He is also notorious for doing or saying something idiotic and then later trying to say it was a joke.
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On July 01 2012 02:50 Yoduh wrote:
the avilo discussion will stop once SotG makes a new episode and gives us something new to talk about. following SC2 is like following wrestling, it's less about the action and more about the storylines. we need our drama!
It's a totally understandable discussion as it was about a subject (Ridicule) which is very sensitive and was foreshadowed by members of Sotg, but JP sadly went on with it and made it a much bigger issue by inviting the touched part.
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On July 01 2012 02:53 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:51 Facultyadjutant wrote:On July 01 2012 02:45 Duravi wrote:On July 01 2012 02:01 iNcontroL wrote:On July 01 2012 01:54 Ireniicus wrote:On July 01 2012 01:35 ToAn8 wrote:On July 01 2012 01:33 iNcontroL wrote:
the last 2 SOTG's sucked and we were overly mean/rude to people in both of those. We will do better ! ! ! ! !
BUT
if you keep talking about this I will beat you up, steal your lunch money and give you a swirlie whilst wearing a leather gracket and stone washed jeans. if only you get out of your chair In many peoples opinion the best way for the show to do better would be for you to step aside as it seems time and time again your inability to mature up reduces the show to a pantomine. This used to be the very best show in SC scene bar none and now its turning into 2 hour waste of peoples time. What exactly are you going to do better? Why should we trust you and stop talking about your poor behaviour in front of 10k people just so you can do it all again in 2-3 shows. TB last week, Avilo this, whose next? Everybody makes mistakes but you just keep on going, ridiculing people like its a sport and counting the times on that abacus. Also you are supposed to be Team Captain for EG and consequently because you are in a position of leadership should be held more accountable for your actions than that of Idra. Your first response was not really apologetic at all and it was only after further days worth of commentary (you would call it pitch forks) from viewers plus likes of Kennigit that you are now backtracking. Are you sincerely sorry or are you just playing lip service hoping this goes away until your bad side rears again? Lastly during the Orb issue you were complaining to people not to talk to sponsors because it would hurt eSports. Well , do you really think the likes of Coca Cola Management would watch last few episodes of SotG and think wow this would be a great market to invest some sponsorship $$ into? Think long and hard about this side of you, humble up a bit, act more like your far maturer better half (Anna) because you do have alot of potential. You casted great at Dreamhack...thats the side we want to see. No.. I didn't back track at all. Go read my post.. I said it was a bad episode and we "mia rose'd" it. As far as you thinking I need to "step aside" bitch please, I make this show If you go back in time and watch the episode where I yell at Nony you realize I am human and step over boundaries from time to time! But I am still pretty awesome and I still deliver a good show. To think otherwise would be very short-sighted. What a humble attitude to have. JP is the one that actually makes the show, and for many episodes at the start and when it's popularity took off the show did just fine without you. Geoff is notoriously bad for providing unemotional and thus noninterpetable statements as hes a forum veteran and accustomed to that, but this is clearly a joke as stated above. He is also notorious for doing or saying something idiotic and then later trying to say it was a joke.
I agree.
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On July 01 2012 02:45 kafkaesque wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:41 Papulatus wrote:On July 01 2012 02:35 WilDMousE wrote:
Sorry to ask but can someone link me the "mia rose" episode that incontrol tends to talk about? Its the last episode in 2011 and something like 3+ hours long. Should stand out among the other episodes. I still remember his rib-cracking joke along those lines: "Yeah, he's the biggest asshole in SC2. After Mia Rose, obviously." I always spat my coffee onto my keyboard, that was so unexpected...
I guess that was funny for you? The girl obviously did not want to speak about porn (because she stated that she retired from being a porn actress and wanted to start a new beginning with streaming game) but Geoff kept it going on and on and on...
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On July 01 2012 02:45 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:42 SMD wrote:
Morrows Thoughts on TvZ would be interesting, as he plays both sides of it..... sorry but the eg guys would just bully me like they do at lan events
Is that after you 4-0 idrA or:D?
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On July 01 2012 02:54 Bleak wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:45 kafkaesque wrote:On July 01 2012 02:41 Papulatus wrote:On July 01 2012 02:35 WilDMousE wrote:
Sorry to ask but can someone link me the "mia rose" episode that incontrol tends to talk about? Its the last episode in 2011 and something like 3+ hours long. Should stand out among the other episodes. I still remember his rib-cracking joke along those lines: "Yeah, he's the biggest asshole in SC2. After Mia Rose, obviously." I always spat my coffee onto my keyboard, that was so unexpected... I guess that was funny for you? The girl obviously did not want to speak about porn (because she stated that she retired from being a porn actress and wanted to start a new beginning with streaming game) but Geoff kept it going on and on and on...
Geoff was incredibly obnoxious with it. Altho I have to respect the fact that he can come up with some many plays on words.
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On July 01 2012 02:27 Facultyadjutant wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:10 Quotidian wrote:On July 01 2012 01:33 Facultyadjutant wrote:On July 01 2012 01:27 Quotidian wrote:On July 01 2012 01:18 Mozdk wrote:On July 01 2012 00:59 Quotidian wrote:On July 01 2012 00:44 Facultyadjutant wrote:On July 01 2012 00:38 Prox wrote:
A guy like Qxc doesn't dare to stand up against Idra, so their balance discussion is pointless.
The moment Idra will ever run into any resistance he just cries and tries to escape into bad mannerism.
Why do people still take him serious? Why do you bring this? Qxc can't win the debate, because he is a rational being who has a rationally taking for account that not enough time has passed and that terrans haven't tried new things. Coupled with the fact that gsl terrans are changing and it's working more and more. How can you possibly expect one to ''win'' the debate, or perform ones arguments as superior when the proof of burden lies on him, and not enough time has went by to gather it. Qxc is being completely rational and civil about this, and the criticizing in general just baffles me as angry twats who equal retorts with ''winning'' the argument. Pure poison are these people, especially as most of them take liberty in twisting and interpreting Qxc's words. I though QXC really won the debate by Idra-selfownage anyway. All the time he was saying "go 3 OC, go 3 OC" but then he brought up how zergs in Korea are beating 3 OC builds by all-ing, which means the answer obviously isn't 3 OC. It's like you think T should have a unit or a way to play that Zerg can't deal with and that is just horrible. They metagame and every individuel game is "supposed" to be "I do something, so you do something to counter, so I do something to counter-counter". That is STRATEGY. Just because K Zergs are smart and exploid a weakness in a T build doesn't make it imbalanced. Every build has weaknesses. Like Terrans early timings against P. P is weak from when stim finishes to they get splash. tvz and pvz are completely different match ups. There's no point in comparing them, And as the game currently stands, zerg should feel genuinely worried about for example hellions. But the recent patch shuts down everything until stim is done, like QXC said Heavy queen openings bring forward exploitable weaknesses themselves which idra pointed out. The fallacy is that opening hellions need to inherently do direct damage, but rather it is up to zerg to judge wether to be greedy or safe. Many zergs droned undisturbed even before the queen change, the queen range has had little to do with it. Rather it's the creep spread that is the problem. However that is easily solved by bringing two scv's that repair the hellions so you can continuously challenge the queens. it's also a fallacy from Idra's side that heavy queen openings means hellion run-bys are easy. It depends on the map, zerg can still wall off with an evo and a spine and just relax a tiny bit on the droning, and so on. Hellion openings need to either do direct damage, limit creep, worry the zerg enough to make units instead of drones or give terran map control. They don't do any of these anymore, except give some map control on the terran's side of the map, which isn't that useful and doesn't last that long anyway. If terran had a strong lategame, zerg being much safer in the early game would be completely ok. You said in an earlier post that I don't look for solutions. Well, as far as I'm concerned there are none, bar actual rebalancing of the game. That is because you are going on the premise that hellion is a unit that is to inherently perform those roles. And Idra didn't proclaim hellion run-bys are easy but rather that it is an option. An evo and a spine is direct damage, and has been the response for a long time. Zerg hasn't really ever been worried by hellion run-bys and made units, rather it has been covered with sim city and spine as you put forward. You also have options to limit creep using for example the qxc bunker or the ever more popular hellion/banshee as 6 queens shoot up detection. Or you can completely shut down creep spread by sending forward 1-2 scv's and repair the hellions to combat the queens and keep them in check.
the reason I'm going with that "premise" is because that's what hellions have been doing since the release of the game. If it's not a unit that's supposed to fulfill one or more of these tasks, then what is it supposed to do? We already have marines to drop from medivacs, and Blizzard's design goal is to have as few overlapping roles between units as possible.
No, they were introduced by mvp in an mlg tournament and their role further developed by Slayer Terrans, most notably against Idra, their role isn't archaic but was a new concept. They have been around for a long time, but their purpose hasn't been always the same.
An evo and a spine isn't "damage." It's like calling a depot wall-off or a bunker "damage." Zergs want evolution chambers anyway, and a spine would let them get even more drones even safer. If the zerg made 3+ spines, then maybe we can start talking "damage" but one spine is completely reasonable trade for getting to make more drones
A spine hurts more than a queen (Explained by Morrow) and it is, whether you wish it or not: Direct damage in two drones and 225 minerals that is close to a new hatch to put it in perspective.
the "QXC bunker" doesn't really work for anything other than stopping creep and leaves terran open to counter aggression. 1-2 svcs repairing hellions won't be enough to shut down creep
You lack experience in both of these and have no evidence.
Show nested quote +You said in an earlier post that I don't look for solutions. Well, as far as I'm concerned there are none, bar actual rebalancing of the game And this is a fallacy because there are options which have been showing success and these were brought forward by Idra which forced Qxc to whitdraw his rebuttal because these new solutions require further observation. Why you disregard encouragement to find new solutions to new issues flabbergast me as there is no plausible reason why old tools should work in a new environment.
terran's success in Korea after the patch is debatable. The reason I disregard what you're talking about is because the queen change was never needed in the first place and it threw a match up that was as close to balanced as you can expect in a game like this out of whack. Zerg weren't actually having big problems with hellions, and there was absolutely no reason change the queen. They had problems scouting, and that change was understandable and extremely overdue. But having "figure it out" be the default solution to a bad move by blizzard just reeks of beaten-wife syndrome in my book.
Anyway, I doubt we're ever going to agree on this, so there's no point in discussing it. I still think QXC had a more solid argument than Idra, it's just that QXC is more open and flexible to what the other person is saying, so it looked like he was backing off while I really don't think he was.
Whether something was needed or not needed is completely irrelevant as it is your own personal opinion on it (I am not saying you are wrong, but it lacks relevance to the discussion as it is your personal opinion)
However we do have evidence of that Sc2 has gone trough big changes due to metagame shifts.
I have a problem with the last part because you are putting it forward like Qxc was there to win over idra in something, but all it was was to oversee what options existed and their viability, the debate was then post poned so the claims from both sides could be established by future observation.
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