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On June 02 2011 05:03 StandingMan wrote:I remember back in the beta days Tyler made a post about the Rape/gamer lingo thing that I thought was so good I had to save it: Show nested quote +A year or so ago, Liquid`Tyler wrote:
From an intellectual perspective, I think you would recognize that a language that has certain words with the power to provoke powerful emotions is superior to a language that does not have such words. If 'rape' was used only to describe the sexual act, and if every time it was used, extreme care was exercised so that anyone hearing it would have an intimate understanding of what rape is, then 'rape' could be a very powerful word. When people are desensitized to the word because they have a poor understanding of its meaning (knowing a few lines from the dictionary is not truly knowing the meaning) and because the word takes on other meanings and is used in other situations, especially light-hearted and harmless situations, then the language is robbed of a unique and powerful word. Would you censor yourself to make your language better? It would go against your principle but perhaps this would be a case where you are capable of understanding the merit.
Obviously posting it here takes it out of a larger context but I think you can basically figure it out 
Agree with this. I think a larger problem that we have, and a problem with the argument that Destiny throws out, is that it assumes that rape has become ok to use as a part of gamer lingo, which is something that I disagree with. I don't know a lot of people who casually use rape, and most of the time I've seen it it comes from random dudes on XBL/Steam/gamechat or whatever. The fact that a lot of people use a word doesn't make it ok, so I think a larger problem is that some portions of the gamer community have apparently decided it's ok to use rape in such a casual manner and it's something that I don't agree with.
The point that I believe it was Tyler made on the cast that people can have reactions to the word rape makes sense as well. By using words that are potentially extremely offensive and/or traumatizing to people you're not only taking viewer numbers away from your stream (which is your business), but you're also potentially actually upsetting tons of people who don't know what your content is like. For example, I had no idea that Destiny frequently uses rough language on his stream until this cast because I never watch his stream. If someone who was really offended by the use of rape or nigger were to tune into his stream without knowing what they were getting into, and then they hear him use it, that does more than just decrease the amount of viewers he has; it also causes a strong reaction in someone who had no idea what they were getting in for.
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On June 02 2011 05:17 Creep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 05:14 R3demption wrote:
Does anyone else find the N- Word completely offensive??? Its plain unnecessary too and you should just look up some more words in the dictionary if you can't find a good replacement for it. You guys do realize it is a derogatory term used to humiliate Blacks right? Like its part of our history, there were black slaves and people would use that term because it meant they were less than human and below everyone else in the world, the lowest of the low with no rights, you guys know this RIGHT?? Why endorse such a word then.
Have you ever listened to rap music?
Just because a lot of rap musicians use the word doesn't make it acceptable. Widespread casual use of a word doesn't suddenly make it ok.
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Wow, so much hate for Incontrol  He realy doesn't deserve it. He did so much for the community and yeah he got seeded in the last MLG but as he said: that's because he did well the previous MLG's.
Sure atm he isn't that dedicated to gaming (being more model *scnr* and doing a ton of other stuff related to sc2) but he will do well in the future.
Also that TLO games: is it incontrols fault, that TLO was to lazy to scout his base properly ? And did you see some of Naniwa's games ? Naniwa did a great job but he also won a lot of games like this.
As someone mentioned: show some more respect towards people like Incontrol. I think without guys like him, SC2 Esports wouldn't be as far as it is now. But I feel that atm every bronze player thinks he's the ultimare gamer and knows everything.
Oh yeah: and i'm not a fanboy of Incontrol nor EG
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On June 02 2011 05:04 Vega62a wrote:
Does anyone else miss the days when people who dedicated their lives to this game were afforded due respect for it? Or did I imagine those days?
Respect has to be earned, nourished and constantly maintained.
Some actors/sportstars/singers received huge amounts of respect early in their careers (Mike Tyson and Whitney Houston come to mind). These individuals didn't exactly manage their reputations too well, and can't be expected to receive the same respect.
With this being said, I have no problems regarding InControl. I think he's a cool guy, does awesome stuff for the community and is a great SC2-competitor. But I think, playing the respect-trump right here, is kinda out of place.
EDIT: Not saying, that InControl ruined his reputation. I hope it didn't come out that way.
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On June 02 2011 05:13 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 05:10 GuiMontag wrote:On June 02 2011 05:04 Vega62a wrote:
So basically, the last 10 pages or so have been a bunch of people who are not professional gamers trying to tell iNcontroL, who is a professional gamer, that his achievements are somehow invalid and that he's somehow bad. I'm not going to try and make a silly sports analogy to explain why this is flat absurdity. If you can't see it, you're beyond help.
Does anyone else miss the days when people who dedicated their lives to this game were afforded due respect for it? Or did I imagine those days? Its more like *Incontrol shits all over good player/team he hasn't beaten *people bring up Incontrols lackluster record *Incontrol tries defending record *Incontrol claims people can't bring up his record i think its more like sotg shit on people who play bad people go lol but u suck more sotg pilars say, you dont need to be a chef to be a food critic. people shit on incontrol incontrol goes lol but u suck more people say, you dont need to be a chef to be a food critic
But one critique is more valuable then the other. Chef would be ideal, but the person closer to the chef in terms of culinary skill is better still then the guy who still has trouble with hot pockets... :\ FXO or whoever are not limp Gazelles on the Savannah, they are robust Oxen and they can defend themselves if they decide to or they can brush it off and roam on. They Oxen do not need the Meerkats to help them.
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On June 02 2011 05:14 R3demption wrote:
Does anyone else find the N- Word completely offensive??? Its plain unnecessary too and you should just look up some more words in the dictionary if you can't find a good replacement for it. You guys do realize it is a derogatory term used to humiliate Blacks right? Like its part of our history, there were black slaves and people would use that term because it meant they were less than human and below everyone else in the world, the lowest of the low with no rights, you guys know this RIGHT?? Why endorse such a word then.
you do know the word nigger can express a multitude of different things?
People(black and white) use a derivative nigga to express love and acceptance of one another
Ive seen some people just use nigger to express love and acceptance.
Are these people wrong, no, they are showing love or acceptance of one another
Words are pretty amazing, a word can mean damn near anything if your talking to the right people.
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Goodbye iNcontroL, thank you for the bringing another point of view to the discussions in the show and some great entertainment over the episodes. I wish you hard but fruitful training and growth as a commentator and general contributor to the community. Thanks!
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On June 02 2011 05:17 Creep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 05:14 R3demption wrote:
Does anyone else find the N- Word completely offensive??? Its plain unnecessary too and you should just look up some more words in the dictionary if you can't find a good replacement for it. You guys do realize it is a derogatory term used to humiliate Blacks right? Like its part of our history, there were black slaves and people would use that term because it meant they were less than human and below everyone else in the world, the lowest of the low with no rights, you guys know this RIGHT?? Why endorse such a word then.
Have you ever listened to rap music?
Do you think that rap music is a basis for how people should talk nowadays?
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On June 02 2011 05:22 r_con wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 05:14 R3demption wrote:
Does anyone else find the N- Word completely offensive??? Its plain unnecessary too and you should just look up some more words in the dictionary if you can't find a good replacement for it. You guys do realize it is a derogatory term used to humiliate Blacks right? Like its part of our history, there were black slaves and people would use that term because it meant they were less than human and below everyone else in the world, the lowest of the low with no rights, you guys know this RIGHT?? Why endorse such a word then.
you do know the word nigger can express a multitude of different things? People(black and white) use a derivative nigga to express love and acceptance of one another Ive seen some people just use nigger to express love and acceptance. Are these people wrong, no, they are showing love or acceptance of one another Words are pretty amazing, a word can mean damn near anything if your talking to the right people.
On June 02 2011 05:20 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 05:17 Creep wrote:On June 02 2011 05:14 R3demption wrote:
Does anyone else find the N- Word completely offensive??? Its plain unnecessary too and you should just look up some more words in the dictionary if you can't find a good replacement for it. You guys do realize it is a derogatory term used to humiliate Blacks right? Like its part of our history, there were black slaves and people would use that term because it meant they were less than human and below everyone else in the world, the lowest of the low with no rights, you guys know this RIGHT?? Why endorse such a word then.
Have you ever listened to rap music? Just because a lot of rap musicians use the word doesn't make it acceptable. Widespread casual use of a word doesn't suddenly make it ok.
Umm, actually, yes it can. Fuck is a casual term now, my boss says it, politicians say it, etc. fuck is a perfectly acceptable word in modern culture.
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On June 02 2011 05:21 BenBuford wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 05:04 Vega62a wrote:
Does anyone else miss the days when people who dedicated their lives to this game were afforded due respect for it? Or did I imagine those days? Respect has to be earned, nourished and constantly maintained. Some actors/sportstars/singers received huge amounts of respect early in their careers (Mike Tyson and Whitney Houston come to mind). These individuals didn't exactly manage their reputations too well, and can't be expected to receive the same respect. With this being said, I have no problems regarding InControl. I think he's a cool guy, does awesome stuff for the community and is a great SC2-competitor. But I think, playing the respect-trump right here, is kinda out of place.
Agreed. Incontrol formed his persona around sarcastic comments and trolling, much the same way Idra's is formed around bm. I think its worth pointing out that when it comes to professional athletes, respecting the skill and respecting the personality are two different things.
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^^What made it acceptable wasn't that so many people were using it, I think it was because what it describes (sex) is something that is becoming less and less of a big deal in modern society.
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On June 02 2011 05:21 BenBuford wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 05:04 Vega62a wrote:
Does anyone else miss the days when people who dedicated their lives to this game were afforded due respect for it? Or did I imagine those days? Respect has to be earned, nourished and constantly maintained. Some actors/sportstars/singers received huge amounts of respect early in their careers (Mike Tyson, Whitney Houston comes to mind). These individuals didn't exactly manage their reputations too well, and can't be expected to receive the same respect. With this being said, I have no problems regarding InControl. I think he's a cool guy, does awesome stuff for the community and is a great SC2-competitor. But I think, playing the respect-trump right here, is kinda out of place.
Your idea of "reputation," which has to do with personal respect, is unrelated to what I am saying. I am saying that from the perspective of a gamer, it is absurd to think that incontrol, who has been a staple of the community for years and has dedicated his life to gaming and achieved success at it, is not worthy of respect as a gamer, and that his opinion about gaming should not carry more weight than Joe Poster on TL.
Edit: Caught your edit, didn't think that was what you were saying. No worries
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On June 02 2011 04:30 r_con wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 03:38 backache wrote:On June 02 2011 03:31 GuiMontag wrote:On June 02 2011 03:24 backache wrote:On June 02 2011 02:53 r_con wrote:On June 02 2011 02:02 backache wrote:On June 02 2011 01:31 r_con wrote:On June 02 2011 00:58 backache wrote:On June 02 2011 00:13 r_con wrote:On June 01 2011 22:22 flodeskum wrote:I personally don't like people censoring their language for anything. But I do understand that it is an American thing and cursing is sort of a big deal over there. So I can fully support them doing that at sponsored events or tournament casts. However I completely disagree with incontrol saying that destiny has a responsibility to do the same on his personal stream because he now represents the community. Who decides when you cross over from angry guy streaming starcraft to community representitive? Should all streamers be censoring themselves or only the popular ones? In my opinion the contents of a personal stream represents the streamer and nobody else. The only exception I would make is the word nigger. I just don't think a white person should be using that word (cue the "omg black people can say it, why can't I??? hAXX!?"). I don't think it is a big deal for the decendants of people that were literally owned to own a single word. Just let them have it. But feel free to say anything else Fuck you nigger I am black, so its ok to use an "lightning" word Naw, I'm not really black, I'm so white that CRT radiation appears to be coming from my skin. The concept that words are restricted based on race is stupid and is in fact racist. If any person says i cant say something because of the color of my skin that is racist. I don't give a fuck if a person calls me a cracker, and that they authentically think i am lesser of a human being because I'm white. I will not be offended by being called a cracker, i will not care, because i know its not true. The truth of the matter is that black people shouldn't care either, because they should know its not true. Hell, i call my gay friends flaming faggots jokingly because they don't take themselves seriously, and i actually asked if it offended them, and they don't care because i'm actually comfortable with them being gay, and I'm not doing it in a way to hurt them or degrade them for being gay. Calling someone a nigger does not instantly degrade them, and if you think it does then society still has a long way to go, its the intent of the speaker that makes a word like nigger bad, good, or neutral. It's easy for some white skinny nerd posting on an internet forum to post his thoughts on the word "ni**er" and "gay". Just because you have an anecdote about your gay friend doesn't make that language alright for general consumption. The crux of the debate isn't about personal preference, but appealing to a larger audience. Because in your sheltered gaming lifestyle you feel it's ok for those words to be used, doesn't mean the general public does. When they start using the words you write about on broadcast television you may have a point. The american public has already had this debate decades ago. On a purely philosophical level I agree with you, but incontrol is right - if you want to appeal to a bigger audience you need to think before you speak. IMO this whole debate is borne from the fact the main demographic on TL is 17-19 yr olds who really haven't been out in the real world and are still dealing with their rebellion in general. Rebellion from authoritative figures such as parents,teachers, etc.. Incontrol is getting hated on because he's the authoritative figure in this debate who is trying to help the community, however some people can't see through their blind rage... Have you seen mainstream media? I think you guys are forgetting that the mainstream as of late is extremely offensive and provocative. We should not be trying to appeal to 30+ because it would be a waste of resources. The issue is marketability, is starcraft 2's chances to become a main stream success inhibited by streamers who use the words rape, nigger, faggot, and gay? I doubt it, I think the market has a place for people who speak like that, but not at professional events. Destiny is making a living from being provocative, while day9 is not that controversial or provocative and is making a living that way. The market can obviously accept it in its current state. Now here's something to think about, what if there was a player in the community that was truly racist, and talked about hating black people all the time on his stream, and about how women should be second class citizens, etc. etc. more offensive shit. Do you think he would be accepted in the community, if their was someone like that? Hell no, of course not, because that straight up hurts almost everyone that we could possibly market too, and that is just a terrible person. No one wants to be associated with a racist and sexist. Ive seen sports shows, they have professional clean cut sport shows and news, and they also have sports shows where they do use vulgar language and they go in depth, and their are people that watch that stuff too. I think they can co-exist within the market, because they already are. Also, what demographic would we turn away that we actually have a chance of getting? I mean, do people realize that we are playing a video game, and thus the potential demographics that we can appeal to are already lowered, and also tend to be gamers. I think the most likely demographic that we are going to appeal to are the console players 13+ that already understand the context of words like rape. The concept that starcraft 2 Is gonna appeal to non gamers in mass is far fetched to me, so it feels like this proper language bullshit won't benefit us much at all or possibly hurt us because some people wont be able to go find contents like destinies. What "mainstream media" are you talking about? Find me any legitimate quote from a mainstream media outlet in which they use any of the words you mention without qualifying it as hate speech. I don't think you know what is considered "mainstream media". Do you consider ABC mainstream media? Have you seen the campaign being run during primetime television telling people NOT to use the word gay as an insult? I really don't know what shows/programs your talking about where that kind of language is used, but I'd love to see some clips. Chris Rock on HBO bigger and blacker, a very mainstream actor and comedian.(also did you know, the certain words are excluded from standard cable due to broadcast regulations) Also I'm not saying that tournaments become people making "vulgar jokes" I'm saying that they can co exist like they do now. They both exist, its not the predominant thing, But the use of nigger is part of mainstream culture, and appears from time to time in mainstream media. Oh yeah, and hating gay people is mainstream under religious context, I'm sure you have seen that in the news. HBO is cable, that's hardly mainstream media. Chris Rock is a famous actor, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say. When Chris Rock goes on Conan, Letterman or Leno he doesn't speak like he does on Bigger and Blacker. When people talk about mainstream media they usually mean ABC, NBC, FOX and media outlets that can be broadcast where the end-user doesn't pay for the content. So what exactly is your argument? It's alright to swear on his own show but not in interviews and talk shows? Wasn't there resounding consensus on the show about this? Chris Rock as an individual isn't mainstream media. When he does appear on a mainstream media outlet he knows how to act. You can't compare paid content vs. unpaid content. To have eSports grow the unpaid content needs to get better and to the point where it's fit for mass consumption by the general public (at least that's how I interpret what InControl et. al are trying to do). In order for the unpaid content to be at that level, there should be some sort of decency standard people can expect so Mr. Joe Blow out in middle-America doesn't lose his shit when a caster drops an F-bomb when he's 11yr old son is watching. People never complain about their Playboy subscription being too graphic because they pay money for that content and know what they are getting. Also, broadcaster have laws saying they can't say certain things and have ratings. How many shows on broadcast stations say curse words or have provocative images? And when i say mainstream media, I'm talking about something that millions of people watch, not a fucking broadcasting station. HBO and Showtime are mainstream entertainment in our culture, paying for it has nothing to do with it. That's like saying because something has a price, its not mainstream. That's like saying Halo Online isn't a part of culture cause you have to pay for xbox live. Howard stern anybody? That's mainstream? Our equivalent to this "paid content" is free live streams. That's how the community kinda works. NASL, TSL, MLG, and GSL are the big venues, and they are basically PG. They are the broadcaster equivalent, EVEN IF WE PAY for them, they are a far better equivalent. Also, what about my demographic point, what are we gaining by have streamers appeal to the mainstream by changing their language? Does it actually generate more viewers, or does it hurt us? Does not having people like destiny make it so we appeal to less or more in the real world? check my previous post where i go further into that
What certain things can't they say? They can't say the 7 dirty words, but can say all the words we are talking about. Your definition of mainstream media isn't correct. HBO and Showtime are NOT mainstream entertainment in our culture, and paying has EVERYTHING to do with it. Just because you feel like it's mainstream media doesn't mean it is. Mainstream media is considered the big broadcast network conglomerates. Showtime is owned by CBS, HBO by Time Warner, these networks attract nowhere near the size of broadcast television. Howard Stern is something you pay for, he is not free.
I disagree about your live stream = paid content point. NASL HD is paid content, GSL is paid content. Free streams don't count as paid content.
I think the community should try to attract as many viewers as possible, so if that means not using a few words then so be it. I can't speak to whether it appeals more or less to people.
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On June 02 2011 05:20 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 05:17 Creep wrote:On June 02 2011 05:14 R3demption wrote:
Does anyone else find the N- Word completely offensive??? Its plain unnecessary too and you should just look up some more words in the dictionary if you can't find a good replacement for it. You guys do realize it is a derogatory term used to humiliate Blacks right? Like its part of our history, there were black slaves and people would use that term because it meant they were less than human and below everyone else in the world, the lowest of the low with no rights, you guys know this RIGHT?? Why endorse such a word then.
Have you ever listened to rap music? Just because a lot of rap musicians use the word doesn't make it acceptable. Widespread casual use of a word doesn't suddenly make it ok.
the point, at least what i got, was that if nigger is a derogatory term used to humiliate blacks, then it's trollololol because in some rap music, which many blacks participate in, the word is used frequently.
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On June 02 2011 05:22 r_con wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 05:14 R3demption wrote:
Does anyone else find the N- Word completely offensive??? Its plain unnecessary too and you should just look up some more words in the dictionary if you can't find a good replacement for it. You guys do realize it is a derogatory term used to humiliate Blacks right? Like its part of our history, there were black slaves and people would use that term because it meant they were less than human and below everyone else in the world, the lowest of the low with no rights, you guys know this RIGHT?? Why endorse such a word then.
you do know the word nigger can express a multitude of different things? People(black and white) use a derivative nigga to express love and acceptance of one another Ive seen some people just use nigger to express love and acceptance. Are these people wrong, no, they are showing love or acceptance of one another Words are pretty amazing, a word can mean damn near anything if your talking to the right people.
Haha so when you guys use it you mean that you love everyone right?
Thats ridiculous.
Go to a train station, bring a bull horn. Yell that word and see what kind of reaction you get... See if people come and give you a hug...
The word has a definite meaning and its not a very useful word and shouldn't have any application at all in the gaming world.
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On June 02 2011 05:27 backache wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 04:30 r_con wrote:On June 02 2011 03:38 backache wrote:On June 02 2011 03:31 GuiMontag wrote:On June 02 2011 03:24 backache wrote:On June 02 2011 02:53 r_con wrote:On June 02 2011 02:02 backache wrote:On June 02 2011 01:31 r_con wrote:On June 02 2011 00:58 backache wrote:On June 02 2011 00:13 r_con wrote:
[quote]
Fuck you nigger
I am black, so its ok to use an "lightning" word
Naw, I'm not really black, I'm so white that CRT radiation appears to be coming from my skin. The concept that words are restricted based on race is stupid and is in fact racist. If any person says i cant say something because of the color of my skin that is racist. I don't give a fuck if a person calls me a cracker, and that they authentically think i am lesser of a human being because I'm white. I will not be offended by being called a cracker, i will not care, because i know its not true. The truth of the matter is that black people shouldn't care either, because they should know its not true.
Hell, i call my gay friends flaming faggots jokingly because they don't take themselves seriously, and i actually asked if it offended them, and they don't care because i'm actually comfortable with them being gay, and I'm not doing it in a way to hurt them or degrade them for being gay.
Calling someone a nigger does not instantly degrade them, and if you think it does then society still has a long way to go, its the intent of the speaker that makes a word like nigger bad, good, or neutral. It's easy for some white skinny nerd posting on an internet forum to post his thoughts on the word "ni**er" and "gay". Just because you have an anecdote about your gay friend doesn't make that language alright for general consumption. The crux of the debate isn't about personal preference, but appealing to a larger audience. Because in your sheltered gaming lifestyle you feel it's ok for those words to be used, doesn't mean the general public does. When they start using the words you write about on broadcast television you may have a point. The american public has already had this debate decades ago. On a purely philosophical level I agree with you, but incontrol is right - if you want to appeal to a bigger audience you need to think before you speak. IMO this whole debate is borne from the fact the main demographic on TL is 17-19 yr olds who really haven't been out in the real world and are still dealing with their rebellion in general. Rebellion from authoritative figures such as parents,teachers, etc.. Incontrol is getting hated on because he's the authoritative figure in this debate who is trying to help the community, however some people can't see through their blind rage... Have you seen mainstream media? I think you guys are forgetting that the mainstream as of late is extremely offensive and provocative. We should not be trying to appeal to 30+ because it would be a waste of resources. The issue is marketability, is starcraft 2's chances to become a main stream success inhibited by streamers who use the words rape, nigger, faggot, and gay? I doubt it, I think the market has a place for people who speak like that, but not at professional events. Destiny is making a living from being provocative, while day9 is not that controversial or provocative and is making a living that way. The market can obviously accept it in its current state. Now here's something to think about, what if there was a player in the community that was truly racist, and talked about hating black people all the time on his stream, and about how women should be second class citizens, etc. etc. more offensive shit. Do you think he would be accepted in the community, if their was someone like that? Hell no, of course not, because that straight up hurts almost everyone that we could possibly market too, and that is just a terrible person. No one wants to be associated with a racist and sexist. Ive seen sports shows, they have professional clean cut sport shows and news, and they also have sports shows where they do use vulgar language and they go in depth, and their are people that watch that stuff too. I think they can co-exist within the market, because they already are. Also, what demographic would we turn away that we actually have a chance of getting? I mean, do people realize that we are playing a video game, and thus the potential demographics that we can appeal to are already lowered, and also tend to be gamers. I think the most likely demographic that we are going to appeal to are the console players 13+ that already understand the context of words like rape. The concept that starcraft 2 Is gonna appeal to non gamers in mass is far fetched to me, so it feels like this proper language bullshit won't benefit us much at all or possibly hurt us because some people wont be able to go find contents like destinies. What "mainstream media" are you talking about? Find me any legitimate quote from a mainstream media outlet in which they use any of the words you mention without qualifying it as hate speech. I don't think you know what is considered "mainstream media". Do you consider ABC mainstream media? Have you seen the campaign being run during primetime television telling people NOT to use the word gay as an insult? I really don't know what shows/programs your talking about where that kind of language is used, but I'd love to see some clips. Chris Rock on HBO bigger and blacker, a very mainstream actor and comedian.(also did you know, the certain words are excluded from standard cable due to broadcast regulations) Also I'm not saying that tournaments become people making "vulgar jokes" I'm saying that they can co exist like they do now. They both exist, its not the predominant thing, But the use of nigger is part of mainstream culture, and appears from time to time in mainstream media. Oh yeah, and hating gay people is mainstream under religious context, I'm sure you have seen that in the news. HBO is cable, that's hardly mainstream media. Chris Rock is a famous actor, but I'm not sure what you're trying to say. When Chris Rock goes on Conan, Letterman or Leno he doesn't speak like he does on Bigger and Blacker. When people talk about mainstream media they usually mean ABC, NBC, FOX and media outlets that can be broadcast where the end-user doesn't pay for the content. So what exactly is your argument? It's alright to swear on his own show but not in interviews and talk shows? Wasn't there resounding consensus on the show about this? Chris Rock as an individual isn't mainstream media. When he does appear on a mainstream media outlet he knows how to act. You can't compare paid content vs. unpaid content. To have eSports grow the unpaid content needs to get better and to the point where it's fit for mass consumption by the general public (at least that's how I interpret what InControl et. al are trying to do). In order for the unpaid content to be at that level, there should be some sort of decency standard people can expect so Mr. Joe Blow out in middle-America doesn't lose his shit when a caster drops an F-bomb when he's 11yr old son is watching. People never complain about their Playboy subscription being too graphic because they pay money for that content and know what they are getting. Also, broadcaster have laws saying they can't say certain things and have ratings. How many shows on broadcast stations say curse words or have provocative images? And when i say mainstream media, I'm talking about something that millions of people watch, not a fucking broadcasting station. HBO and Showtime are mainstream entertainment in our culture, paying for it has nothing to do with it. That's like saying because something has a price, its not mainstream. That's like saying Halo Online isn't a part of culture cause you have to pay for xbox live. Howard stern anybody? That's mainstream? Our equivalent to this "paid content" is free live streams. That's how the community kinda works. NASL, TSL, MLG, and GSL are the big venues, and they are basically PG. They are the broadcaster equivalent, EVEN IF WE PAY for them, they are a far better equivalent. Also, what about my demographic point, what are we gaining by have streamers appeal to the mainstream by changing their language? Does it actually generate more viewers, or does it hurt us? Does not having people like destiny make it so we appeal to less or more in the real world? check my previous post where i go further into that What certain things can't they say? They can't say the 7 dirty words, but can say all the words we are talking about. Your definition of mainstream media isn't correct. HBO and Showtime are NOT mainstream entertainment in our culture, and paying has EVERYTHING to do with it. Just because you feel like it's mainstream media doesn't mean it is. Mainstream media is considered the big broadcast network conglomerates. Showtime is owned by CBS, HBO by Time Warner, these networks attract nowhere near the size of broadcast television. Howard Stern is something you pay for, he is not free. I disagree about your live stream = paid content point. NASL HD is paid content, GSL is paid content. Free streams don't count as paid content. I think the community should try to attract as many viewers as possible, so if that means not using a few words then so be it. I can't speak to whether it appeals more or less to people.
It's also a lot to do with intended audience. If you look at HBO shows and whatnot, they have higher/older age guidelines because of harsh content. NBC/main broadcast networks' shows generally censor themselves to get higher viewer numbers, that's why most of their shows, if you look at the age guideline on teh top left at the beginning, are for all audiences.
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Sheth
All: 130-81 (61.61%)
vT: 54-48 (52.94%)
vZ: 34-17 (66.67%)
vP: 42-16 (72.41%)
Moonan
All: 165-109 (60.22%)
vT: 82-46 (64.06%)
vZ: 42-28 (60.00%)
vP: 41-35 (53.95%)
Incontrol
All: 59-85 (40.97%)
vT: 23-31 (42.59%)
vZ: 17-23 (42.50%)
vP: 19-31 (38.00%)
Just so you can see their records side by side...
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On June 02 2011 05:17 Creep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 05:14 R3demption wrote:
Does anyone else find the N- Word completely offensive??? Its plain unnecessary too and you should just look up some more words in the dictionary if you can't find a good replacement for it. You guys do realize it is a derogatory term used to humiliate Blacks right? Like its part of our history, there were black slaves and people would use that term because it meant they were less than human and below everyone else in the world, the lowest of the low with no rights, you guys know this RIGHT?? Why endorse such a word then.
Have you ever listened to rap music?
do u see "legit" white rappers say it? its common knowledge that people who are not black dont use the word in any kind of way...only idiots who think they are "gangster" use it totally forgetting that they are just making a fool of themselves.
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On June 02 2011 05:29 nvs. wrote:
Just so you can see their records side by side...
EG's top 5:
IdrA
All: 112-63 (64.00%)
vT: 50-26 (65.79%)
vZ: 20-6 (76.92%)
vP: 42-31 (57.53%)
Axslav
All: 105-85 (55.26%)
vT: 52-26 (66.67%)
vZ: 29-17 (63.04%)
vP: 24-42 (36.36%)
DeMusliM
All: 79-62 (56.03%)
vT: 34-24 (58.62%)
vZ: 16-18 (47.06%)
vP: 29-20 (59.18%)
Incontrol
All: 59-85 (40.97%)
vT: 23-31 (42.59%)
vZ: 17-23 (42.50%)
vP: 19-31 (38.00%)
Machine
All: 63-72 (46.67%)
vT: 32-31 (50.79%)
vZ: 3-7 (30.00%)
vP: 28-34 (45.16%)
FXO's top 5:
Sheth
All: 130-81 (61.61%)
vT: 54-48 (52.94%)
vZ: 34-17 (66.67%)
vP: 42-16 (72.41%)
Moonan
All: 165-109 (60.22%)
vT: 82-46 (64.06%)
vZ: 42-28 (60.00%)
vP: 41-35 (53.95%)
OpTiKzErO
All: 123-100 (55.16%)
vT: 47-41 (53.41%)
vZ: 34-27 (55.74%)
vP: 42-32 (56.76%)
mOOnGLaDe
All: 84-63 (57.14%)
vT: 25-19 (56.82%)
vZ: 32-14 (69.57%)
vP: 27-30 (47.37%)
QXC
All: 156-115 (57.56%)
vT: 48-44 (52.17%)
vZ: 42-30 (58.33%)
vP: 66-41 (61.68%)
I mean it is obvious from the data that EG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FXO. Not even comparable.
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EPT
