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On June 02 2011 04:53 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 04:02 Azide wrote:On June 02 2011 03:56 SiguR wrote:On June 02 2011 01:11 iNcontroL wrote:
FXO has literally 0 team accomplishments except losing to EG in ESEA and taking I think 4th.
Where the HELL do people get it in their mind that they are a better team? It absolutely cannot be through results. Arbitrary considerations with players? Qxc hasn't been his former self since MLG of last year when he still placed lower than several EG players. Moonan? No accomplishments. Slog? Filthy? Tgun or w/e... all lower level than Machine, Strifecro and Lz. Sheth is great. But still has fewer / less accomplishments than I do in big tourneys (MLG). Then we compare super-stars.. IdrA vs Moonglade. Need I say more? And all this without mentioning Axslav who won MVP for crota invitational going undefeated against players like Jinro and the other top players from top teams.
Emphasis on the bolded part... I don't care for the argument that's taking place here on which team is better, but blatant falsehoods tickle my fancy. Moonan has no accomplishments but you do? At MLG Dallas, you were seeded into pool play. You took fourth place by: In group play: beating TLO, Mihai, and slush Losing to painuser In the championship bracket: You beat TLO in an extended series You lost to Select 0-2 You lost to Kiwikaki 0-2 You won two best of threes and one best of five. You lost three best of threes. That got you fourth place.At MLG Dallas, Moonan took 8th. He started in the open bracket. Got knocked into the losers bracket by huk and did not make group play, but proceeded to the championship bracket by beating Naama. In the championship bracket he beat spades, painuser, mihai, machine, slush, and eventually lost to socke.
Moonan won 11 best of threes, and lost two best of threes. That got him 8th place. If you'll notice, three of the players he beat were the ones that were in your pool (essentially the same players you beat to secure your fourth place spot, minus TLO).In summary: Incontrol : Wins: 2 bo3's, 1 bo5. Losses: 3 bo3's 4th place Moonan: Wins: 11 bo3's Losses: 2 bo3's 8th place The catch is that Moonan played almost literally the same players that you did, plus naama, spades, machine, and a number of lesser known players. Saying Moonan has zero accomplishments and you have more accomplishments than him or sheth seems kind of moronic. You benefited from a very skewed seeding system. That is all fine and good in itself. I'm happy for your success. But don't go waving your dick around saying you have more accomplishments than other people who arguably performed just as well if not better than you. I want to be clear that i'm not saying you didn't do well. I'm saying that arguably Moonan did better and you're sitting on your 4th place "accomplishment" and saying Moonan has zero accomplishments. It seems silly. well said I got seeded into the top 16 because I spent 3 MLG's beating people of / higher level than what you listed for Moonan. Saying he did well in open play and then placed lower in the same bracket I placed higher in as some kind of "he did better" is stupid. I have NO IDEA why so many people hate on slush / TLO it really is a shame.. they are fucking good. Mihai came from the same open stage btw as Moonan and he too lost 0-2 to me. It sucks cause I have to defend my 4th place finish which comes off as "wow he thinks it was so amazing" but I am only doing that in response to the idiots that go "his 4th place finish was vs scrubs lololol" Sigur I understand you are a moonan fan boy and all but I'm sorry...
I must be reading a different thread because I don't recall anyone hating on Slush and TLO in this one. I don't want to seem like a dick, but this seems like an obvious attempt at a deflection.
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the amount of flaming on incontrol is getting a bit out of hand, give the guy a break lol. He has more things to do than just playing the game.
Anyway it was nice having you on the show ^^. GL at MLG!! hope you read this instead of all the negative comments  .
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On June 02 2011 06:05 RvB wrote:the amount of flaming on incontrol is getting a bit out of hand, give the guy a break lol. He has more things to do than just playing the game. Anyway it was nice having you on the show ^^. GL at MLG!! hope you read this instead of all the negative comments .
All people have really done is refute his sweeping claims and generalizations with evidence and examples.
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On June 02 2011 06:02 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 04:53 iNcontroL wrote:On June 02 2011 04:02 Azide wrote:On June 02 2011 03:56 SiguR wrote:On June 02 2011 01:11 iNcontroL wrote:
FXO has literally 0 team accomplishments except losing to EG in ESEA and taking I think 4th.
Where the HELL do people get it in their mind that they are a better team? It absolutely cannot be through results. Arbitrary considerations with players? Qxc hasn't been his former self since MLG of last year when he still placed lower than several EG players. Moonan? No accomplishments. Slog? Filthy? Tgun or w/e... all lower level than Machine, Strifecro and Lz. Sheth is great. But still has fewer / less accomplishments than I do in big tourneys (MLG). Then we compare super-stars.. IdrA vs Moonglade. Need I say more? And all this without mentioning Axslav who won MVP for crota invitational going undefeated against players like Jinro and the other top players from top teams.
Emphasis on the bolded part... I don't care for the argument that's taking place here on which team is better, but blatant falsehoods tickle my fancy. Moonan has no accomplishments but you do? At MLG Dallas, you were seeded into pool play. You took fourth place by: In group play: beating TLO, Mihai, and slush Losing to painuser In the championship bracket: You beat TLO in an extended series You lost to Select 0-2 You lost to Kiwikaki 0-2 You won two best of threes and one best of five. You lost three best of threes. That got you fourth place.At MLG Dallas, Moonan took 8th. He started in the open bracket. Got knocked into the losers bracket by huk and did not make group play, but proceeded to the championship bracket by beating Naama. In the championship bracket he beat spades, painuser, mihai, machine, slush, and eventually lost to socke.
Moonan won 11 best of threes, and lost two best of threes. That got him 8th place. If you'll notice, three of the players he beat were the ones that were in your pool (essentially the same players you beat to secure your fourth place spot, minus TLO).In summary: Incontrol : Wins: 2 bo3's, 1 bo5. Losses: 3 bo3's 4th place Moonan: Wins: 11 bo3's Losses: 2 bo3's 8th place The catch is that Moonan played almost literally the same players that you did, plus naama, spades, machine, and a number of lesser known players. Saying Moonan has zero accomplishments and you have more accomplishments than him or sheth seems kind of moronic. You benefited from a very skewed seeding system. That is all fine and good in itself. I'm happy for your success. But don't go waving your dick around saying you have more accomplishments than other people who arguably performed just as well if not better than you. I want to be clear that i'm not saying you didn't do well. I'm saying that arguably Moonan did better and you're sitting on your 4th place "accomplishment" and saying Moonan has zero accomplishments. It seems silly. well said I got seeded into the top 16 because I spent 3 MLG's beating people of / higher level than what you listed for Moonan. Saying he did well in open play and then placed lower in the same bracket I placed higher in as some kind of "he did better" is stupid. I have NO IDEA why so many people hate on slush / TLO it really is a shame.. they are fucking good. Mihai came from the same open stage btw as Moonan and he too lost 0-2 to me. It sucks cause I have to defend my 4th place finish which comes off as "wow he thinks it was so amazing" but I am only doing that in response to the idiots that go "his 4th place finish was vs scrubs lololol" Sigur I understand you are a moonan fan boy and all but I'm sorry... I must be reading a different thread because I don't recall anyone hating on Slush and TLO in this one. I don't want to seem like a dick, but this seems like an obvious attempt at a deflection.
Incontrol is a master debater
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On June 02 2011 04:53 iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 04:02 Azide wrote:On June 02 2011 03:56 SiguR wrote:On June 02 2011 01:11 iNcontroL wrote:
FXO has literally 0 team accomplishments except losing to EG in ESEA and taking I think 4th.
Where the HELL do people get it in their mind that they are a better team? It absolutely cannot be through results. Arbitrary considerations with players? Qxc hasn't been his former self since MLG of last year when he still placed lower than several EG players. Moonan? No accomplishments. Slog? Filthy? Tgun or w/e... all lower level than Machine, Strifecro and Lz. Sheth is great. But still has fewer / less accomplishments than I do in big tourneys (MLG). Then we compare super-stars.. IdrA vs Moonglade. Need I say more? And all this without mentioning Axslav who won MVP for crota invitational going undefeated against players like Jinro and the other top players from top teams.
Emphasis on the bolded part... I don't care for the argument that's taking place here on which team is better, but blatant falsehoods tickle my fancy. Moonan has no accomplishments but you do? At MLG Dallas, you were seeded into pool play. You took fourth place by: In group play: beating TLO, Mihai, and slush Losing to painuser In the championship bracket: You beat TLO in an extended series You lost to Select 0-2 You lost to Kiwikaki 0-2 You won two best of threes and one best of five. You lost three best of threes. That got you fourth place.At MLG Dallas, Moonan took 8th. He started in the open bracket. Got knocked into the losers bracket by huk and did not make group play, but proceeded to the championship bracket by beating Naama. In the championship bracket he beat spades, painuser, mihai, machine, slush, and eventually lost to socke.
Moonan won 11 best of threes, and lost two best of threes. That got him 8th place. If you'll notice, three of the players he beat were the ones that were in your pool (essentially the same players you beat to secure your fourth place spot, minus TLO).In summary: Incontrol : Wins: 2 bo3's, 1 bo5. Losses: 3 bo3's 4th place Moonan: Wins: 11 bo3's Losses: 2 bo3's 8th place The catch is that Moonan played almost literally the same players that you did, plus naama, spades, machine, and a number of lesser known players. Saying Moonan has zero accomplishments and you have more accomplishments than him or sheth seems kind of moronic. You benefited from a very skewed seeding system. That is all fine and good in itself. I'm happy for your success. But don't go waving your dick around saying you have more accomplishments than other people who arguably performed just as well if not better than you. I want to be clear that i'm not saying you didn't do well. I'm saying that arguably Moonan did better and you're sitting on your 4th place "accomplishment" and saying Moonan has zero accomplishments. It seems silly. well said I got seeded into the top 16 because I spent 3 MLG's beating people of / higher level than what you listed for Moonan. Saying he did well in open play and then placed lower in the same bracket I placed higher in as some kind of "he did better" is stupid. I have NO IDEA why so many people hate on slush / TLO it really is a shame.. they are fucking good. Mihai came from the same open stage btw as Moonan and he too lost 0-2 to me. It sucks cause I have to defend my 4th place finish which comes off as "wow he thinks it was so amazing" but I am only doing that in response to the idiots that go "his 4th place finish was vs scrubs lololol" Sigur I understand you are a moonan fan boy and all but I'm sorry...
The point is minus TLO, you won against a subset of the people Moonan also defeated yet you claim he has zero accomplishments which was the whole reason why sigur felt obligated to comment. Sure you can talk about your 4th place finish but don't do it at the expense of belittling other people's accomplishments.
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On June 02 2011 05:14 R3demption wrote
Why use a word, that has a discriminatory meaning, to convey love in the first place? Why not just use "love"? Love can never be misconstrued as something else and you wouldn't get your ass beat for using it. That's the heart of the issue.
You're arguing that the N- word has a special meaning in some circles. But the Internet is a global community with no special circles. You have to be conscious of this powerful fact. If you desire to use that word with people at home who are "okay" with its special meaning, fine. But you can't argue that it isn't a discriminatory word. It shouldn't be desensitized into something acceptable IMO.
I also argue that Fuck, shit, asshole, damn, rape, bitch are all fighting words in todays society. They're acceptability is debatable. Don't throw the N- word into this pot though. It is SPECIFICALLY derogatory towards one race of people... It should be clearly offensive because it alienates one kind of person which is cruel and unusual IMO.
I like the bold part. To develop this idea:
Answer this question and think hard about it.
Is an Internet stream comparable to a private conversation?
My answer: A Internet stream is not comparable to a private conversation. This is because anyone can be there, and although there are controls, albeit ineffective ones (click here if you're 18), there is no way for a streamer to know who is listening. This is a parallel to shouting offensive language in a public place (R3demption's train station analogy). Because of this fact the impacts of inadvertently being offensive to someone turned in are increased. Thus, this public place factor increases the chance that a consequence occurs when using offensive language on an Internet stream.
Of course, depending on how someone answer the question the argument will be completely different
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Why are we debating how good Incontrol is again? Just curious as to why everyone's starting to argue that he's not a great player.
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Incontrol you will be missed. Also yeah he is good he came 4th at Dallas lol.
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On June 02 2011 05:18 Vega62a wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 05:13 turdburgler wrote:On June 02 2011 05:10 GuiMontag wrote:On June 02 2011 05:04 Vega62a wrote:
So basically, the last 10 pages or so have been a bunch of people who are not professional gamers trying to tell iNcontroL, who is a professional gamer, that his achievements are somehow invalid and that he's somehow bad. I'm not going to try and make a silly sports analogy to explain why this is flat absurdity. If you can't see it, you're beyond help.
Does anyone else miss the days when people who dedicated their lives to this game were afforded due respect for it? Or did I imagine those days? Its more like *Incontrol shits all over good player/team he hasn't beaten *people bring up Incontrols lackluster record *Incontrol tries defending record *Incontrol claims people can't bring up his record i think its more like sotg shit on people who play bad people go lol but u suck more sotg pilars say, you dont need to be a chef to be a food critic. people shit on incontrol incontrol goes lol but u suck more people say, you dont need to be a chef to be a food critic That's not really it at all. SOTG pillars criticize players who may be better than they are (I have no authority to say if they are or aren't) and are able to do so because they have the perspective of somebody who dedicates their lives to gaming. This criticism is therefore legitimate. Conversely, people who casually play starcraft criticize incontrol without any of the perspective that comes with being somebody whose livelihood depends on playing starcraft well. This criticism is not legitimate.
but incontrols livelyhood doesnt depend on playing starcraft well. his total winnings from sc2 are in the <$5000 dollar range in the last year. he relies on a salary paid by sponsors who are concerned by the image he presents to the world about their products, only part of that is based on "makes you a better gamer"
On June 02 2011 06:18 DystopiaX wrote:
Why are we debating how good Incontrol is again? Just curious as to why everyone's starting to argue that he's not a great player.
because he once again took an unneeded shit on the accomplishments of another team for no other reason than hes scared they might reinforce the stereotype that white guys cant play starcraft. which has been in the brew for 10+ years now, so i dont think fxo crashing out of gstl would do anything worse than team2koreans going basically undefeated at IEM and a decade of broodwar raep
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On June 02 2011 06:08 GuiMontag wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 06:02 Mordiford wrote:On June 02 2011 04:53 iNcontroL wrote:On June 02 2011 04:02 Azide wrote:On June 02 2011 03:56 SiguR wrote:On June 02 2011 01:11 iNcontroL wrote:
FXO has literally 0 team accomplishments except losing to EG in ESEA and taking I think 4th.
Where the HELL do people get it in their mind that they are a better team? It absolutely cannot be through results. Arbitrary considerations with players? Qxc hasn't been his former self since MLG of last year when he still placed lower than several EG players. Moonan? No accomplishments. Slog? Filthy? Tgun or w/e... all lower level than Machine, Strifecro and Lz. Sheth is great. But still has fewer / less accomplishments than I do in big tourneys (MLG). Then we compare super-stars.. IdrA vs Moonglade. Need I say more? And all this without mentioning Axslav who won MVP for crota invitational going undefeated against players like Jinro and the other top players from top teams.
Emphasis on the bolded part... I don't care for the argument that's taking place here on which team is better, but blatant falsehoods tickle my fancy. Moonan has no accomplishments but you do? At MLG Dallas, you were seeded into pool play. You took fourth place by: In group play: beating TLO, Mihai, and slush Losing to painuser In the championship bracket: You beat TLO in an extended series You lost to Select 0-2 You lost to Kiwikaki 0-2 You won two best of threes and one best of five. You lost three best of threes. That got you fourth place.At MLG Dallas, Moonan took 8th. He started in the open bracket. Got knocked into the losers bracket by huk and did not make group play, but proceeded to the championship bracket by beating Naama. In the championship bracket he beat spades, painuser, mihai, machine, slush, and eventually lost to socke.
Moonan won 11 best of threes, and lost two best of threes. That got him 8th place. If you'll notice, three of the players he beat were the ones that were in your pool (essentially the same players you beat to secure your fourth place spot, minus TLO).In summary: Incontrol : Wins: 2 bo3's, 1 bo5. Losses: 3 bo3's 4th place Moonan: Wins: 11 bo3's Losses: 2 bo3's 8th place The catch is that Moonan played almost literally the same players that you did, plus naama, spades, machine, and a number of lesser known players. Saying Moonan has zero accomplishments and you have more accomplishments than him or sheth seems kind of moronic. You benefited from a very skewed seeding system. That is all fine and good in itself. I'm happy for your success. But don't go waving your dick around saying you have more accomplishments than other people who arguably performed just as well if not better than you. I want to be clear that i'm not saying you didn't do well. I'm saying that arguably Moonan did better and you're sitting on your 4th place "accomplishment" and saying Moonan has zero accomplishments. It seems silly. well said I got seeded into the top 16 because I spent 3 MLG's beating people of / higher level than what you listed for Moonan. Saying he did well in open play and then placed lower in the same bracket I placed higher in as some kind of "he did better" is stupid. I have NO IDEA why so many people hate on slush / TLO it really is a shame.. they are fucking good. Mihai came from the same open stage btw as Moonan and he too lost 0-2 to me. It sucks cause I have to defend my 4th place finish which comes off as "wow he thinks it was so amazing" but I am only doing that in response to the idiots that go "his 4th place finish was vs scrubs lololol" Sigur I understand you are a moonan fan boy and all but I'm sorry... I must be reading a different thread because I don't recall anyone hating on Slush and TLO in this one. I don't want to seem like a dick, but this seems like an obvious attempt at a deflection. Incontrol is a master debater
Incontrol is a master of skewing facts to fit his agenda. The way he characterized Mr. Chae's post in last night's state of the game was a disgusting example of this. If he is going to be talking about something on a show like SotG that gets so much publicity, he should really try to UNDERSTAND what Mr. Chae wrote, rather than just going off on a tangent by making Mr. Chae's argument what he wanted it to be and then arguing with that, when noone else had actually read the post to correct him.
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If he is going to be talking about something on a show like SotG that gets so much publicity, he should really try to UNDERSTAND what Mr. Chae wrote, rather than just going off on a tangent by making Mr. Chae's argument what he wanted it to be and then arguing with that, when noone else had actually read the post to correct him.
But strawmen are so much easier to argue with.
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Anyone know if they are they bringing anyone in regularly to fill iNc's spot?
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On June 02 2011 06:18 DystopiaX wrote:
Why are we debating how good Incontrol is again? Just curious as to why everyone's starting to argue that he's not a great player.
Actually if you read back a couple of pages, the debate is not really about whether Incontrol is a good player. People are upset that he is speaking poorly of other players (who they are fans of) in defense of his own success.
If you read SiguR's post:
If you think I'm criticizing you for over inflating your success, you don't understand my original post. I'm criticizing you for deflating the success of moonan.
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Was there an actual reason given as to why Geoff has to step down from being a part of the show? Or is it merely a time commitment issue?
In any case, I won't be tuning in anymore, I can make my own mind up on topics that are addressed on the show. I only listened for the humour, so this is a shame.
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time commitments is all that was said.
i'm sure the whole bit about "not being able to actually joke about anything/anyone" was a factor too, though.
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On June 02 2011 06:23 Circos wrote:
Was there an actual reason given as to why Geoff has to step down from being a part of the show? Or is it merely a time commitment issue?
In any case, I won't be tuning in anymore, I can make my own mind up on topics that are addressed on the show. I only listened for the humour, so this is a shame.
I think he said he wanted to cut down on his non-playing commitments so he can go back to playing more. Could be mistaken. He's been travelling and super busy recently so that has cut into his playing time quite a lot.
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yea, it must be really hard for him when he keeps getting forced to work with the people he's been mocking.
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Seems like the only reason Incontrol gets this irrational level of hate is because he actually engages in the community and these frustrated people think they're more likely to get a response out of him than they would another player. Kinda sad.
I have no idea how the best podcast I listen to also seems to have the worst vocal following of any of them.
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On June 02 2011 06:18 DystopiaX wrote:
Why are we debating how good Incontrol is again? Just curious as to why everyone's starting to argue that he's not a great player.
Basically, he commented on how EG would represent better in Korea or something along those lines, someone commented that they thought FXO was comparable if not better, than EG, and EG is largely based around IdrA. inControl got defensive and unwittingly belittled the achievements of FXO and people responded to that by comparing his and EG's success to that of FXO and highlighting inControl's achievements in comparison...
It's kind of stupid really, why even comment on how your team would do in comparison if they have no plans of going, just takes the jam out of FXO's doughnut. Also, when someone disagrees, why get defensive and label them an "EG hater" despite them being tame and respectfully giving their opinion, pretty silly.
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Oh iNcontroL... I was actually really happy you got 4th last MLG, even though you seem to ignore the fact that the seeding is skewed (and I see you ignore it by putting yourself above Moonan given Sigur's argument)... but now I really can't wait for you to get a reality check. Unfortunately you are now in what is easily considered by everyone to be the easiest group at Columbus, so you will still likely do quite well, but when compared to all the players at Dallas and your results there, I don't think you truly deserved 4th.
That's just my opinion. You can prove me wrong with consistent results in the future. Either way, it is disappointing to see that you can't simply acknowledge that your results were due to your opportunity to attend every MLG (as we have seen though your responses).
Also, I really hate how you are now talking down on other players for having "no accomplishments" when you were recently in the position of having none, but you were saying it was an unfair judgment to make due to how hard it is to post good results.
Well the fact is Moonan has actually won quite a decent amount of events if you look at his TLPD (with many good players in those events like Axslav, CatZ, dde, sheth, fenix, vibe, cruncher etc.) yet you immediately dismiss him as having no accomplishments. What a fucking joke... seriously. Someone who was in your position of having to defend himself from being criticized for having no accomplishments is now taking the opportunity to put himself above other players who don't have accomplishments now that you do (even though they also have accomplishments). I seriously lost a lot of respect for you... though I know that doesn't matter.
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EPT
