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On August 18 2010 01:15 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I love when Terran players get 5 reapers and think they're microing.
Or when they use two vikings as a follow-up to "micro" and kill off stray overlords
Or when they drop tank/thor on your cliff and "micro" it.
Or when they use banshee "micro" to carefully snipe two shot drones with little resistance.
Don't be dissing TLO now, that guy is nothing but creative for picking easyTerran.
Speaking of which I'm always impressed when people marvel at TLO doing nothing special but standard Terran cheese such as hellion runbys/drops or abusing Zerg's crappy early AA, or even a Thor timing push with SCV's. And even when he gets outplayed (such as the losing 4 thors to madfrog's surround) he manages to come back because he's SO AWESOME! or maybe just because Terran is retardedly good vZ.
I'm not even sure how you can admire a Terran player in general atm. It's just so full of gay, it's pretty amazing.
User was warned for this post
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I'm glad that Blizzard will take their time with balance, it's pointless to make quick changes if they end up breaking the game even more.
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I think this sounds very good. I play zerg and I really think we need some kind of help against Terran Mech, but I am perfectly content with seeing Blizzard being very careful with any balance changes they do now that the game is in production. I don't want to see Zerg being OP and lots of bandwagon jumpers switching to our team.
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On August 18 2010 01:22 Kletus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 01:15 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I love when Terran players get 5 reapers and think they're microing.
Or when they use two vikings as a follow-up to "micro" and kill off stray overlords
Or when they drop tank/thor on your cliff and "micro" it.
Or when they use banshee "micro" to carefully snipe two shot drones with little resistance. Yeah, I love it when zerg players macro all game, attack move, and then "micro" with fungal growth.
No but then again we don't call it Micro and sir it's more of Move up close then Attack Move. 
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Maybe they could (finally) replace Infested Terran with something better.
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On August 18 2010 00:19 Phayze wrote:
Using the ladder for statistics is a joke. Blizzard needs to hire oGs and prime for a week and have them play 1000, 2000, even 3000 games with eachother. And get their statistics from that. It's the tournaments which count, it's the mass custom games which count. Not the ladder games where players try new things, cheese, etc etc. Ladder games are usually en massed and players largely do not care about them. They either try to win immediately or try funky things. The balance issue is much more prominent in the tournament level and blizzard is, for the most part, ignoring this in favor of their botched statistics.
They already did during beta, the Korean teams agree that Terran is very strong atm (maybe too strong).
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On August 18 2010 02:43 shlomo wrote:
Don't be dissing TLO now, that guy is nothing but creative for picking easyTerran.
Speaking of which I'm always impressed when people marvel at TLO doing nothing special but standard Terran cheese such as hellion runbys/drops or abusing Zerg's crappy early AA, or even a Thor timing push with SCV's. And even when he gets outplayed (such as the losing 4 thors to madfrog's surround) he manages to come back because he's SO AWESOME! or maybe just because Terran is retardedly good vZ.
I'm not even sure how you can admire a Terran player in general atm. It's just so full of gay, it's pretty amazing.
People would take Zerg complaints a lot more seriously if they weren't more bitter than your mom's homemade Worcestershire sauce. Insult players out of absolutely nowhere! That will certainly get you the recognition your deserve.
But then, this is a stepping stone to becoming a real sport. All we need now are steroid allegations and we're set.
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On August 18 2010 02:43 shlomo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 01:15 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I love when Terran players get 5 reapers and think they're microing.
Or when they use two vikings as a follow-up to "micro" and kill off stray overlords
Or when they drop tank/thor on your cliff and "micro" it.
Or when they use banshee "micro" to carefully snipe two shot drones with little resistance. Don't be dissing TLO now, that guy is nothing but creative for picking easyTerran. Speaking of which I'm always impressed when people marvel at TLO doing nothing special but standard Terran cheese such as hellion runbys/drops or abusing Zerg's crappy early AA, or even a Thor timing push with SCV's. And even when he gets outplayed (such as the losing 4 thors to madfrog's surround) he manages to come back because he's SO AWESOME! or maybe just because Terran is retardedly good vZ. I'm not even sure how you can admire a Terran player in general atm. It's just so full of gay, it's pretty amazing.
Well you can consider the Reaper harass micro if the player manages to keep his macro up. When a player plays with a hand full of reapers in my base then lets his money shoot to 500 that isn't really good game play.
As for TLO he has shown alot of variety with Zerg too. TLO has PROVEN over the last 4 months that his will try to innovate. He may use some standard Terran cheese, but he manages to push past it if it fails. Most Terran can't. I'm an Idra fan but lets not bash TLO, he is good an has proven his ability to think outside the box.
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I was deciding how to put it for a long time.. and found this conclusion. Playing terran and protoss is easier when you don't have top skill, than is playing zerg. Or to put it even other way, you can achieve victory with more ease as terran or protoss, if your skill (macro/micro/everything) is not top.
Saying that all zerg players are skill-less and complain is really dumb and kind of trolling, imho. I played zerg at beta like 90% of the time, then played random a bit, and after few games of toss/terran after getting used to what they (can) do I found it way easier to win as them. As zerg I either lost to some dumb allin (my bad for not scouting it, maybe..) or lost because the enemy was better (go go games against people in placement games who end in diamond!).
I kind of feel that you need to put more effort into a win as zerg. (it really frustrates me when I see a replay where I lost agaisnt a guy that had 50 less APM than me (ok, that doesn't matter) and had no control groups and just got a big enough army and either a-moved or micro-ed it without macroing) That's why I play them and why I feel very proud when I manage to win 
Also at lower levels, if you slip on macro and get your resources piled up, you can just queue units when going to battle and checking 5x less often than you do as zerg. I've seen SO many people not using their (non zerg) macro mechanics in late game it's not even funny.
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On August 18 2010 02:40 Oleksandr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 00:14 Cedstick wrote:On August 18 2010 00:11 Velr wrote:
Yes, its completly playable for 99%, but it's harder to play for 100% than Protoss or Terarn.
On lower level the Macro mechanics make it way harder.
[strike]On high levels the little imbalances begin to show up and make it way harder.[/strike] Oh, so it's like Terran until C- in Brood War? Seriously, how many times do we have to go over it? People still suck at this game, as seriously as they may take themselves (IdrA), and there is a lot of mapping-out that will occur as the game progresses. Speak for yourself, if you suck.
idra fanboy is angry : ((
its a fact that even the best of the best pretty much still suck at the game compared to the science like precision we saw in broodwar at the end. they game is damn new and even if the evolution in sc2 happens WAAAYY faster then in sc1/wc3 we still dont know shit.
the gap between the pros and the normal good guy is rather small, you can get to top diamond just by knowing the game and not fucking up etc. all of that will change.
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On August 18 2010 00:23 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:id love if they would totally overbuff Z now just so all those idiots would shut up and realise that its not balance but their own lack of skill thats keeping em down.
You're totally right. It's not that Terran is OP, it's just that every single person that plays Zerg is bad.
Awesome logic.
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On August 18 2010 02:53 EppE wrote:
As for TLO he has shown alot of variety with Zerg too. TLO has PROVEN over the last 4 months that his will try to innovate. He may use some standard Terran cheese, but he manages to push past it if it fails. Most Terran can't. I'm an Idra fan but lets not bash TLO, he is good an has proven his ability to think outside the box.
I have nothing against TLO personally, I think he's a great player. But while players like IdrA, despite all the BM qq, stick to the race that is definitely more challenging to play, others go from random to the flavor of the month because it "gives them more options" (might as well say straight up it's the easiest to play). IdrA is an inspiration for people who struggle with Zerg, TLO is a letdown in general because he goes from very interesting creative random player to particularly good at lolterran abuse.
Doesn't take away from their skills. Just character wise, I'll take IdrA and his BM Zerg over TLO's "lol I can abuse hellions and then make a quick starport and viking harass cuz I play T".
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Netherlands19140 Posts
On August 18 2010 03:01 Headshot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 00:23 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:id love if they would totally overbuff Z now just so all those idiots would shut up and realise that its not balance but their own lack of skill thats keeping em down. You're totally right. It's not that Terran is OP, it's just that every single person that plays Zerg is bad. Awesome logic.
Stop making useless posts and feeding malcontent in these threads.
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On August 18 2010 03:01 shlomo wrote:
IdrA is an inspiration for people who struggle with Zerg
Gotta agree with that. There are others, too.. But this always gave me the power to keep on trying.
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My god this thread is going from one end of the spectrum and back. Went from blizzard talking about the future to how "TLO is a letdown" wtf - Cry all you want 99% of players wont come close to this "letdown".
On topic - I'm glad blizzard is at least listening. Whether they act or not is up to them. As long as they're aware.
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On August 18 2010 03:12 JrK wrote:
My god this thread is going from one end of the spectrum and back. Went from blizzard talking about the future to how "TLO is a letdown" wtf - Cry all you want 99% of players wont come close to this "letdown".
99% of players of any sport wont come close to any of the pros.
Yet some pro's choices or characters are still a letdown to many people.
It's really not anything new, don't see why it would be different with SC.
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On August 18 2010 02:46 generic88 wrote:
Maybe they could (finally) replace Infested Terran with something better.
Infested Terran is a pretty alright ability.
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On August 18 2010 01:33 ironchef wrote:
Not going to comment on balance,but zerg being underrepresented makes total sense to me.
Theyre the most different race mechanic wise, and werent playable in single player. I can see tons of new, non hardcore players just being confused and want to stick with something close to what they learned in tutorials/campaign. Even if the game is 100% balanced, I'd expect zerg to be less represented from the casual factor alone.
First time I've seen someone bring this up and it's a great point. Just counting the number of Zerg players on battle.net doesn't take into account the player who's never seen Starcraft before, played the single player campaign (only) and then decided to start with the ladders.
If they liked the Protoss missions, they might go Toss. But other than that they'll probably stay with the Terran that they mostly understand already.
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sometimes when I see threads like this I wonder what people will react with, then I realize in a few pages there will be people that agree and people who disagree and are very vocal.
I've said this before, the game takes some time for stuff to edge out. Games aren't instantaneously balanced, nor do the strategies and controls of a race become instant upon release. Closing the gap between strategies/skills/control is a long way off, so yeah as of now zerg is a bit behind in terms of statistics, but zerg may be able to move ahead with a player who sets the way.
Sort of like Boxer in BW, people didn't like T because they thought it was weak and defensive, then Boxer started innovating and making tricks you still see in modern broodwar. I'm not saying zerg will just be fixed automatically, but someone with strategic plays and reasonable cheese could really change how people play/see the zerg as a competitive race.
On the note of balancing, I would assume zerg needs to have some fixes to be more competitive. Personally I wouldn't just suggest automatic unit buffs, but changes to the macro (queen control, creep) to make it more forgiving, and a more viable race for less experienced players.
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As for TLO he has shown alot of variety with Zerg too. TLO has PROVEN over the last 4 months that his will try to innovate. He may use some standard Terran cheese, but he manages to push past it if it fails. Most Terran can't. I'm an Idra fan but lets not bash TLO, he is good an has proven his ability to think outside the box.
i wouldnt say massing queens then winning is a viable strat. the way TLO handles zerg is creative but hardly viable. the builds he does are extremly risky most of the time as zerg to where one mistake will easily loose him the game. but most ppl think all zergs to play standard which is why he gets away with those kinds of builds most of the time. basically his creativity is what helps him win games as a person because know one knows what to expect from a guy like him.
but just because TLO can win on his creativity rly doesnt say much about the match up since even he gets rofl stomped once terran catches on.
also u cant ignore the fact that TLO terran play is significantly stronger then his zerg play despite him being a random player for so long.
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