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Bashiok Aknowledging Balance Issues - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
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PietjeP89
Profile Joined April 2010
Belgium83 Posts
August 17 2010 23:23 GMT
#101
I can imagine Blizzard's problem.. So many people are switching or already playing terran..
If a nerf made Zerg more viable against Terran then even more people would be raging then the current zerg population.. It's only 20 % of the players and look how full the forums get with balance threads.. If all those terrans start donig that..

God help us :D
Naraka
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada21 Posts
August 17 2010 23:24 GMT
#102
"Some Guy" !?

I'm insulted! >8(
We have evolved...
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
August 17 2010 23:26 GMT
#103
On August 18 2010 08:17 Drowsy wrote:
Wtf is with this 26% shit? It's 19% on sc2ranks right now. That's a huge problem, don't try to understate it by bullshitting numbers. I'm also quite sick of blizzard's "Korean Zergs!1!1" shit because then retards regurgitate it despite it being blatantly false. Korea only has 17% zerg, 2% below the global average. Yes, that's right, even the fabled solid macro koreans think this race is boring and gay. Furthermore, 7, not 10, of the top 20 on kr are zerg, but maybe his post is a little old. Top 20 is probably a bad representation, something like top 100 would likely be a better representation of the highest skilled players.

I think we should all take a soak in the sauna to relax and collect our thoughts.
ToxNub
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada805 Posts
August 17 2010 23:26 GMT
#104
This thread is officially hijacked.

Zerg tears come pouring out again... twisting words to suit their own egos.

The statement is that zerg is underplayed, not underpowered. Balance changes are in the works, but not necessarily to buff zerg... Zerg cry about every single thing. They claim every single unit and every single mechanic as being inferior, depending on the thread.

And yet, most zerg do fine. There are no statistics to indicate imbalance. With no evidence, they continue to cry. Who could possibly be so foolish? Quit, forever, spare us your tears, as delicious as they are. The community will be better for it. You will always be bad, no matter what race you play, no matter what they balance. You'll find that out soon eonugh.
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
August 17 2010 23:27 GMT
#105
If you expect massive changes, it`s not going to happen. They`re probably going to make some minor changes (-1 damage for random units or something), see what happens, make more minor changes, see what happens, until things settle down. This is no longer beta. This is a real game now. They have to tread carefully.

About pros using terran: pros using zerg are what you should be raging at. When pros use terran and win tournaments, that`s a sign of imbalance. When IdrA rages while winning anyway... it`s not. I don`t see why he doesn`t switch to terran himself.

(what the hell is happening to my apostrophes am I stuck in Canadian French modeÉÉÉ)
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-17 23:28:37
August 17 2010 23:28 GMT
#106
Am I wrong in assuming that most Korean terrans like to use bio in TvZ? or at least use a half-half mix of bio with mech? I haven't seen many Korean games where they go pure mech, but then again I haven't seen that many Korean terrans at all.
Since zerg deals with bio easier, that was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the Korean rankings.
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
August 17 2010 23:29 GMT
#107
On August 18 2010 08:17 Drowsy wrote:
Wtf is with this 26% shit? It's 19% on sc2ranks right now. That's a huge problem, don't try to understate it by bullshitting numbers. I'm also quite sick of blizzard's "Korean Zergs!1!1" shit because then retards regurgitate it despite it being blatantly false. Korea only has 17% zerg, 2% below the global average. Yes, that's right, even the fabled solid macro koreans think this race is boring and gay. Furthermore, 7, not 10, of the top 20 on kr are zerg, but maybe his post is a little old. Top 20 is probably a bad representation, something like top 100 would likely be a better representation of the highest skilled players.

I wonder if they have seen this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=144731
Jonstah
Profile Joined July 2010
79 Posts
August 17 2010 23:30 GMT
#108
On August 18 2010 06:45 MythicalMage wrote:
I think a lot of it is PR and psychology. When I'm picking my race, I don't want the one that the community deems UP, whether or not that's true.



Its funny, im quite the opposite.
shlomo
Profile Joined May 2010
258 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-17 23:33:08
August 17 2010 23:32 GMT
#109
On August 18 2010 08:28 Tachion wrote:
Am I wrong in assuming that most Korean terrans like to use bio in TvZ? or at least use a half-half mix of bio with mech? I haven't seen many Korean games where they go pure mech, but then again I haven't seen that many Korean terrans at all.
Since zerg deals with bio easier, that was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the Korean rankings.


Yeah, pretty much all the "evidence" provided by casters such as Day9 of "Zerg is fine L2P" is a bunch of TvZs where T goes bioball, bio drops, or bio with some mech sprinkled in. Everytime I see one of those I'm like woohoo thanks, I'm glad we figured out that bio isn't a huge problem, because that's totally new and surprising.
Trok67
Profile Joined May 2010
France384 Posts
August 17 2010 23:32 GMT
#110
On August 18 2010 08:26 ToxNub wrote:
This thread is officially hijacked.

Zerg tears come pouring out again... twisting words to suit their own egos.

The statement is that zerg is underplayed, not underpowered. Balance changes are in the works, but not necessarily to buff zerg... Zerg cry about every single thing. They claim every single unit and every single mechanic as being inferior, depending on the thread.

And yet, most zerg do fine. There are no statistics to indicate imbalance. With no evidence, they continue to cry. Who could possibly be so foolish? Quit, forever, spare us your tears, as delicious as they are. The community will be better for it. You will always be bad, no matter what race you play, no matter what they balance. You'll find that out soon eonugh.


let me guess, you play terran ?
BamBam
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
745 Posts
August 17 2010 23:33 GMT
#111
Guys dont worry, its just beta-

Oh wait... Nevermind.
"two is way better than twice as one" - artosis
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
August 17 2010 23:35 GMT
#112
On August 18 2010 02:31 AcOrP wrote:
why so many people blame the lower skill level for zerg being week... Yes in lower division skill level is low... But if you make mistake with zerg you lose the game. And if you are terran even if u do tons of mistakes its still hard for zerg to win the game... Korean zergs are doing fine but korean zergs have insane high skill level and in ladder you don't realy face pros only, you do face alot weaker oponents that are basicly free wins for the pro korean zergs...


And this is any different to brood war, because?
Moderator<:3-/-<
PhiliBiRD
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2643 Posts
August 17 2010 23:40 GMT
#113
good post.

thx for the info
Drowsy
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States4876 Posts
August 17 2010 23:40 GMT
#114
On August 18 2010 08:29 Saracen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2010 08:17 Drowsy wrote:
Wtf is with this 26% shit? It's 19% on sc2ranks right now. That's a huge problem, don't try to understate it by bullshitting numbers. I'm also quite sick of blizzard's "Korean Zergs!1!1" shit because then retards regurgitate it despite it being blatantly false. Korea only has 17% zerg, 2% below the global average. Yes, that's right, even the fabled solid macro koreans think this race is boring and gay. Furthermore, 7, not 10, of the top 20 on kr are zerg, but maybe his post is a little old. Top 20 is probably a bad representation, something like top 100 would likely be a better representation of the highest skilled players.

I wonder if they have seen this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=144731

oh wow hahaha. Well, it's pretty much impossible to go on a long streak as zerg, it's only a matter of time until somebody does some unscoutable early aggression you blindly weren't able to react to properly.

Still, the point of my post is that it's distressing when blizzard employees misquote statistics and when a thread is made with all sorts of false numbers that will mislead readers and make for worse discussion. I don't think people appreciate the gravity of 19%, and I'm quite tired of being patronized by posters who claim American/Euro/Latin zergs simply aren't creative or good enough to play zerg and that only the koreans can do it right, which is a bs copout argument that has been refuted too many times.

On August 18 2010 00:49 raga4ka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2010 00:20 SyyRaaaN wrote:
"Our intent is not to have a game with broken balance in an attempt to sell an expansion. That should go without saying. It makes me sad it isn't."

Hehe, blizzards reputation has taken a hit? :D But now when i think about it - we were all screaming for atleast 1 more zerg unit in the beta but we didnt see it ^^. And thats coming in the expansion for sho, which maybe means that they have an awesome zerg unit done, but not implemented? Hum, hum, hum.

On topic - intresting to see what changes they are planning. Will it be a success as SC1, or a total fail as WC3 ?


They shouldn't have taken out the lurker before the beta . They said that the lurker overlaped with the other units and practically said fuck you to zerg users and if you want a complete race wait for the expansion and an other 60 $ dollars . If they bring back the lurker in Hots i will be forced to destroy my SC2 wings of liberty CD and never buy an other blizzard game again . They already made the game super expensive by spliting it in to 3 parts and if the reason they left the zerg race unfinished ( compared to the other 2 races in wings of liberty ) is that they want people to buy their expansion is unforgivable .



That's what it looks like. Even if they don't bring back the lurker, I have a feeling HOTS will add a unit which will fill a pivotal role in the zerg arsenal and that unit will be more vital to zerg users than whatever units they add to terran and protoss will be to those races.
On August 18 2010 01:33 ironchef wrote:
Not going to comment on balance,but zerg being underrepresented makes total sense to me.
Theyre the most different race mechanic wise, and werent playable in single player. I can see tons of new, non hardcore players just being confused and want to stick with something close to what they learned in tutorials/campaign. Even if the game is 100% balanced, I'd expect zerg to be less represented from the casual factor alone.




Yeah, but 19% is plainly too low. I, too, would expect it to be lower than other races solely from lack of being in single player, mechanical differences, and lack of visual appeal. Maybe something like 24-27%.

And what about team games? Zerg is even more unpopular in team games it seems.
Our Protoss, Who art in Aiur HongUn be Thy name; Thy stalker come, Thy will be blunk, on ladder as it is in Micro Tourny. Give us this win in our daily ladder, and forgive us our cheeses, As we forgive those who play zerg against us.
me_viet
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia1350 Posts
August 17 2010 23:47 GMT
#115
Hey, i Remember reading in that forum late last night about how blizzard is taking out "one unit you love" (I think Bashiok said it). Not sure wether it was a troll or not though. Too lazy to go through entire forum right now, but maybe i'll edit it later.
Karas
Profile Joined March 2010
United States230 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 00:05:40
August 18 2010 00:05 GMT
#116
I won't debate whether zerg is ultimately UP, but I will say there are a ton more strategies zerg players can try before throwing in the towel.

1) More burrow uses (roaches, banelings)
2) More drops (very few zergs use drops/nydus right now, to their detriment).
3) Faster broodlord/ultra tech (right now the common z midgame is 2 evos with upgrades. What if all that money was spent on faster hive tech...it might be a better overall strat)
4) Corruption. Especially against those pesky thors, it might be a big help there.

Game still has a long learning curve to get to where it is going.
Onlinejaguar
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia2823 Posts
August 18 2010 00:16 GMT
#117
I'm pretty pleased that they are not rushing to make a change because of complaints. I like that about Blizzard, they will listen to the community without blindly doing every thing everyone wants.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
August 18 2010 00:20 GMT
#118
On August 18 2010 08:23 shlomo wrote:
TLDR version: playing the easymode race might bite you in the ass when a good balance patch finally happens.


psssh

Poll: do you play terran because it's "easymode"

i don't play terran (22)
 
51%

yup, winning is fun, qq noobs (13)
 
30%

no, i actually like terran (8)
 
19%

43 total votes

Your vote: do you play terran because it's "easymode"

(Vote): yup, winning is fun, qq noobs
(Vote): no, i actually like terran
(Vote): i don't play terran



dolpiff
Profile Joined June 2010
France300 Posts
August 18 2010 00:23 GMT
#119
to the bunkers!! the nerf bat is coming to get youuuu

i wonder how they can change ZvT w/o gimping PvT though (since its supposedly fair atm)
Trok67
Profile Joined May 2010
France384 Posts
August 18 2010 00:23 GMT
#120
On August 18 2010 09:05 Karas wrote:
I won't debate whether zerg is ultimately UP, but I will say there are a ton more strategies zerg players can try before throwing in the towel.

1) More burrow uses (roaches, banelings)
2) More drops (very few zergs use drops/nydus right now, to their detriment).
3) Faster broodlord/ultra tech (right now the common z midgame is 2 evos with upgrades. What if all that money was spent on faster hive tech...it might be a better overall strat)
4) Corruption. Especially against those pesky thors, it might be a big help there.

Game still has a long learning curve to get to where it is going.


Everything youre talking about have allready been discussed like a thousands time, and are simply not viable. Plz stop saying the same stuff over and over and over such as "Zerg don't know to play", "Korean zergs dominate everybopdy", "they don't use enough the unit X or Y".
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