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Bashiok Aknowledging Balance Issues - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
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PanzerDragoon
Profile Joined March 2010
United States822 Posts
August 17 2010 20:56 GMT
#81
so like, 5 of the top 10 Korean are Zerg, and from what I've seen, they all play extremely aggressively.

What are they doing that the Euros are missing, who have 1 Zerg in top 10 lol
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
August 17 2010 21:09 GMT
#82
Nerf Terran. Bring back overkill (for every unit, not just ones with projectiles). That's all I ask. :[
TheAngelofDeath
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2033 Posts
August 17 2010 21:11 GMT
#83
At least they're aware of the issues....now all we have to do is wait and see what they do about it.
"Infestors are the suck" - LzGamer
Kisra
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom466 Posts
August 17 2010 21:13 GMT
#84
I find it worth mentioning at times like this that Blizzard need to be careful about patching. During Beta, right when the HDH was starting, do you remember a certain patch that caused larva to pop out when you cancelled an egg? It wasn't the first time a patch had hit right as a tournament had started, messing up some builds and empowering others - and with GOMTV, MLG and IEM about to start, a patch could really mess with the results.

Of course, from what I understand those tournaments will be played on Blizzard operated local servers, so might just stick with the current patch.
:D
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
August 17 2010 21:13 GMT
#85
On August 18 2010 06:09 Ryuu314 wrote:
Nerf Terran. Bring back overkill (for every unit, not just ones with projectiles). That's all I ask. :[

Wasn't it always only on units with projectiles/shot delay (in particular, Tanks having shot delay in SC1)?

Maybe I just didn't notice marine/hydralisk overkill.
Moderator
iNty.sCream
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany195 Posts
August 17 2010 21:31 GMT
#86
whats are tournaments worth if the game isnt balanced?
Bisu best hairspray = win
MythicalMage
Profile Joined May 2010
1360 Posts
August 17 2010 21:45 GMT
#87
I think a lot of it is PR and psychology. When I'm picking my race, I don't want the one that the community deems UP, whether or not that's true.
Fizbin
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada202 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-17 21:49:30
August 17 2010 21:46 GMT
#88
On August 18 2010 01:33 ironchef wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Not going to comment on balance,but zerg being underrepresented makes total sense to me.
Theyre the most different race mechanic wise, and werent playable in single player. I can see tons of new, non hardcore players just being confused and want to stick with something close to what they learned in tutorials/campaign. Even if the game is 100% balanced, I'd expect zerg to be less represented from the casual factor alone.

Anyway, not doubting their sincerity, but this is a standard blizzard response and doesnt really tell us anything new. You can pretty much assume this stance on everything going forward. The more rare/notable cases are when they go "nope, you guys are wrong, not gonna fix/look at it!"


i think not only that but so many new players talk to the good players or read forums and come to the conclusion zerg is crap and then they all jump on the band wagon. hence only 26% representation. notice how in the lower leagues all the terrans are sucking really really bad? because they are most likely the players who are new to sc2, suck, or are just doing flavor of the month! haha!

good to hear blizzard is at least aware of the problem. i hope when they do make some changes rather then balance it... they make zerg a little more interesting to play. more options.

i dont know how many times in beta i QQ'd on threads trying to get blizzard to add another unit to the zerg tech tree. and look where they are now.. 26% representation!!

zerg was my favorite race in bw's. now i play diamond random. but would much rather be playing zerg only! maybe after an expansion or some COOL changes i'll go back. i miss kerrigan being evil too... wtf.

hydra speed is gay off creep. whoevers idea that was is a ritard
just the tip
zak
Profile Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1009 Posts
August 17 2010 21:50 GMT
#89
you know what I am glad zerg is not played due to perhaps balance issues and general difficulty. Only the best play zerg!
You know how to gain a victory, but not use it - maharbal
MythicalMage
Profile Joined May 2010
1360 Posts
August 17 2010 21:52 GMT
#90
On August 18 2010 06:31 iNty.sCream wrote:
whats are tournaments worth if the game isnt balanced?

Exactly. Would Gom be having a half million in prizes if the game was horribly imbalanced? Would the pros let them? I don't think so.
Dreadwolf
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada220 Posts
August 17 2010 22:14 GMT
#91
I can understand blizzard not wanting to make balance change too fast, i can imagine the shitstorm on the forums after: "that not whats needed!", "those change r bad", "omg does bliztard even play this game!"

Finding good solution(s) in a balance equation like this is not easy, i actually expect them to fuck up something, but they will get it right, eventually.
Trok67
Profile Joined May 2010
France384 Posts
August 17 2010 22:18 GMT
#92
problem about balance (especially ZvT) exist since the end of the beta and blizzard always failed to react (every patch were buffing terrans)

I remember blizzard saying that they were going to fix zerg with some amazing stuff and then the patch when they give Frenzy to infestors to try to fix zergs (because they were aware that zerg were boring), huge fail the spell was pretty awfull they've removed it and did nothing else to fix zergs... I really can't feel like blizzard is going to do anything in the good direction to fix the balance either but we will see...
Arnstein
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway3381 Posts
August 17 2010 22:38 GMT
#93
Way!
rsol in response to the dragoon voice being heard in SCII: dragoon ai reaches new lows: wanders into wrong game
Supamang
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2298 Posts
August 17 2010 22:46 GMT
#94
I think they need to bring in some changes that will allow zerg to get better map control. I thought they were a swarming race, but they seem so immobile off creep. They should make more open maps that have side routes that dont have like 4 destructible rocks to go through. Or maybe make the natural movement speed of all zerg units higher with the creep speed bonus lower. Dunno, 2 cents here
sNes.
Profile Joined June 2008
United States377 Posts
August 17 2010 22:52 GMT
#95
On August 18 2010 01:15 Amber[LighT] wrote:
I love when Terran players get 5 reapers and think they're microing.

Or when they use two vikings as a follow-up to "micro" and kill off stray overlords

Or when they drop tank/thor on your cliff and "micro" it.

Or when they use banshee "micro" to carefully snipe two shot drones with little resistance.

User was warned for this post


Or when mutas come in a micro scvs and kill turrets
Or when people blink micro stalkers
Or when people micro graviton beam siege tanks with pheonix
Or when people micro effectivly with collosi..

tbh the micro you mentioned from terran is in fact MICRO...
Heroes get remembered but Legends never die
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
August 17 2010 23:01 GMT
#96
On August 18 2010 05:56 PanzerDragoon wrote:
so like, 5 of the top 10 Korean are Zerg, and from what I've seen, they all play extremely aggressively.

What are they doing that the Euros are missing, who have 1 Zerg in top 10 lol


probably baneling busts. most of the zergs that are complaining (like idra) are ones who prefer late-game zerg but can't get there due to how strong reaper rushes and bunker rushes are.

no top zerg wants any change besides slower-building barracks/bunkers, right now early reapers or bunker rushes are like the original 4-pool, they just come too fast to stop.
toadstool
Profile Joined May 2006
Australia421 Posts
August 17 2010 23:09 GMT
#97
On August 18 2010 03:01 shlomo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2010 02:53 EppE wrote:
As for TLO he has shown alot of variety with Zerg too. TLO has PROVEN over the last 4 months that his will try to innovate. He may use some standard Terran cheese, but he manages to push past it if it fails. Most Terran can't. I'm an Idra fan but lets not bash TLO, he is good an has proven his ability to think outside the box.


I have nothing against TLO personally, I think he's a great player. But while players like IdrA, despite all the BM qq, stick to the race that is definitely more challenging to play, others go from random to the flavor of the month because it "gives them more options" (might as well say straight up it's the easiest to play). IdrA is an inspiration for people who struggle with Zerg, TLO is a letdown in general because he goes from very interesting creative random player to particularly good at lolterran abuse.

Doesn't take away from their skills. Just character wise, I'll take IdrA and his BM Zerg over TLO's "lol I can abuse hellions and then make a quick starport and viking harass cuz I play T".


This is the dumbest thing I've heard today. If Terran was your best race, and gets you the best results in your practice matches, why would you still use zerg? To lose?

It may surprise you, but people play games (and tournaments) to win, not for the challenge of playing.

NEWB?!
Drowsy
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States4876 Posts
August 17 2010 23:17 GMT
#98
Wtf is with this 26% shit? It's 19% on sc2ranks right now. That's a huge problem, don't try to understate it by bullshitting numbers. I'm also quite sick of blizzard's "Korean Zergs!1!1" shit because then retards regurgitate it despite it being blatantly false. Korea only has 17% zerg, 2% below the global average. Yes, that's right, even the fabled solid macro koreans think this race is boring and gay. Furthermore, 7, not 10, of the top 20 on kr are zerg, but maybe his post is a little old. Top 20 is probably a bad representation, something like top 100 would likely be a better representation of the highest skilled players.
Our Protoss, Who art in Aiur HongUn be Thy name; Thy stalker come, Thy will be blunk, on ladder as it is in Micro Tourny. Give us this win in our daily ladder, and forgive us our cheeses, As we forgive those who play zerg against us.
Gingerninja
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom1339 Posts
August 17 2010 23:17 GMT
#99
On August 18 2010 08:01 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2010 05:56 PanzerDragoon wrote:
so like, 5 of the top 10 Korean are Zerg, and from what I've seen, they all play extremely aggressively.

What are they doing that the Euros are missing, who have 1 Zerg in top 10 lol


probably baneling busts. most of the zergs that are complaining (like idra) are ones who prefer late-game zerg but can't get there due to how strong reaper rushes and bunker rushes are.

no top zerg wants any change besides slower-building barracks/bunkers, right now early reapers or bunker rushes are like the original 4-pool, they just come too fast to stop.


Watched a lot of Check's games recently on HD's channel, He's very aggressive with Zerg from one base and seems to be successful. Euro's and American players seem to favour expanding early where the Korean's seem to just go on constant attack from the go.. or at least that's what it's seemed in the vids i've watched recently.
戦いの中に答えはある
shlomo
Profile Joined May 2010
258 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-17 23:25:11
August 17 2010 23:23 GMT
#100
On August 18 2010 08:09 toadstool wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2010 03:01 shlomo wrote:
I have nothing against TLO personally, I think he's a great player. But while players like IdrA, despite all the BM qq, stick to the race that is definitely more challenging to play, others go from random to the flavor of the month because it "gives them more options" (might as well say straight up it's the easiest to play). IdrA is an inspiration for people who struggle with Zerg, TLO is a letdown in general because he goes from very interesting creative random player to particularly good at lolterran abuse.

Doesn't take away from their skills. Just character wise, I'll take IdrA and his BM Zerg over TLO's "lol I can abuse hellions and then make a quick starport and viking harass cuz I play T".


This is the dumbest thing I've heard today. If Terran was your best race, and gets you the best results in your practice matches, why would you still use zerg? To lose?

It may surprise you, but people play games (and tournaments) to win, not for the challenge of playing.


I'm speaking from my (spectator) point of view.
Of course, if it works better for him, it makes sense for him to pick Terran.
It's just completely uninteresting to watch supercharged terran cheese game after game, with more and more TvT mirrors in pretty much each event I've followed lately.

Also, unless you're significantly better with Terran, I'm not sure it's strategically the best option to go with the flavor of the month, because in the long run when T gets nerfed or others get buffed, you might have a harder time adjusting after relying on the easyterran crutch for a while. Whereas if Z ever gets help in ZvT, a player like IdrA will only become scarier.

TLDR version: playing the easymode race might bite you in the ass when a good balance patch finally happens.
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