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About the 26% only. I don't think this says too much about the balance of the game.
- In sc2 you play ranking games and want to reach the top leagues. In this case most of the players will become result oriented.
- Players like Idra and Dimaga speak of race imbalance people will listen and people will listen to those as well etc.
- You only have one account for 1v1 gaming.
So... Players want to reach as high rank as possible, playing random makes this more difficult.
They only have one account to use for it so experimenting with the other races is to many not an option.
Imbalance on lower levels can hardly make any difference at all but the talks of Zerg being the weakest race will affect the players choice as they want good results to show off.
Perhaps the possibility to have different 1v1 account for each race would be a nice idea.
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Im glad there taking there time with this kind of stuff, Id hate to see FoTM bullcrap they pulled with WoW.
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It's well recognized that there are a few ways for T/P players to exploit Zerg in early game, by nearly every top ranked Pro - even the ones who are not Zerg. There are some -slight- issues with mid game pre-T3, but those are much less of an issue as you can actually have a variety of ways to attempt to combat those, unlike the early game issues.
With that said, them saying that they are working on it is enough for me. Even a very small balance change for early game would likely fix the match completely, as an early game change would trickle down in to the mid-late game and put Zerg in a slightly better position, which would make things very desirable, as the mid game problems are only slight, and only if T/P exploit certain timings.
I just hope the changes come sooner rather than later... but their acknowledgment is enough for me to continue sticking to Zerg until then. Which is great - I was debating going random until hearing a response.
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On August 18 2010 00:22 Integra wrote:
Zerg middle and late game is fine, the problem is early game.
Zerg is reactionary and need to build up it's echonomy during the early game while defending depending on what the Terran makes. Terran can easily conceal and tech in so many variations that it makes it hard for zerg to defend duing this period. The Terran doesn't even have to kill the zerg, just hurt it's echonomy growth.
o yea which exactly mid tier zerg unit is fine compare to equivalentt terran or toss.
Hydras + mutas vs thors or collossi , infestors vs high templars archons or ghosts ?
No comparison here.
then at end game ... terran can have - not that it needs - more expansions than zerg , almost free with uber defences - pf + mules ftw
let alone top tier units for toss + terran >>> zerg
have u ever bother to check something more than R and M in replays ? check mineral spend and armies lost for tvz and see how T has actually more army with less spending and less casualties in almost every pro game .
no its not fine zerg simply underperforms in every possible way
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I find it ironic that zerg is supposedly some extremely mobile army yet can't catch a reaper or hellion before they do significant damage in most cases and have to resort to spine crawlers. So I guess you could say zerg has a mobile army... once you pay for it (upgrades) and spread the creep.
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On August 19 2010 05:54 SirGlinG wrote:
About the 26% only. I don't think this says too much about the balance of the game.
- In sc2 you play ranking games and want to reach the top leagues. In this case most of the players will become result oriented.
- Players like Idra and Dimaga speak of race imbalance people will listen and people will listen to those as well etc.
- You only have one account for 1v1 gaming.
So... Players want to reach as high rank as possible, playing random makes this more difficult.
They only have one account to use for it so experimenting with the other races is to many not an option.
Imbalance on lower levels can hardly make any difference at all but the talks of Zerg being the weakest race will affect the players choice as they want good results to show off.
Perhaps the possibility to have different 1v1 account for each race would be a nice idea.
19 global, korea at only 17, not 26 global. Zerg is surely worse in team games. I raged about this a few pages ago, op doesn't accurately state how large the discrepancy actually is.
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time for zerg buff. i wonder what its gonna be.
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I would like opinions on this. What if they don't buff zerg as in a units stats but buff them as in making them fast like when on creep and just remove the extra speed they get on creep. Would that help? I know that would make spreading creep less important but it might level the playing field..?
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That first Bashiok post was pretty obvious. People should have expected careful contemplation before patching when SC2 is live. I wouldn't worry about it honestly, it isn't like the game is unplayable.
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Seems reasonable from Blizz. No one wants Z to just stomp over everything. Yeah, ZvT is hard right now, and yeah I'd like it to be perfect, but it takes time. It's been out less than a month and pretty damn close to balanced for a newly released game.
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On August 19 2010 10:26 Phanekim wrote:
time for zerg buff. i wonder what its gonna be.
It might be a slight zerg buff.
Considering
TvP is sorta balanced
PvZ is probably most balanced
TvZ is what people are complaining about
Either Terran will get nerfed overall and protoss specialisation will be buffed, e.g. emp buff or lockdown spell
OR
Zerg will get an anti-terran specialisation skill. Infest a Terran building? Just throwing it out there.
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The most disturbing thing about ZvT is that it's not fun to play until you're way into Lair tech.
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1 supply roaches again! lol i miss those things.
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Let's get that balance patch out!
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I know its never gonna happen but let me have some dreams  :
blizzard should add a new zerg t1/t1.5 unit, it would:
- add diversity
- allow us more different openings and aggressive play
- allow us to deal correctly with all the openings/harass terran have (in teh early game)
this unit should not have a big impact on mid and late game, its fine as it is right now
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I like their approach to balance.
Best way is to go slow and gradually, instead of quick unproven fixes.
Maybe 2 months before Blizzard make their balance changes is the best and than gradually continuing to improve it over the course of years.
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I am all for slow and appropriate balance changes. Hell I'm the one who brought these quotes here to try and calm the mass Zerg raging.
But I really hope it's sooner rather than later. And I really hope it's a balance fix that just feels right rather than some band-aid they slap on.(Hi 2 Supply Roach)
Changes made this early in the game tend to stick around for the life of the game, and having some stupid change like that (Oh, hey again 2 Supply Roach) redefine how units are used is just really bad design.
So, here's to hoping, Blizzard!
1) Make the RIGHT change, not a quick fix.(we just keep bumping into each other 2 Supply Roach)
2) Make it sooner rather than later!
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I don't see a balance coming for awhile. If things don't change in a couple months then I could see a patch coming to help people out.
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i just feel like the beta hasn't ended. i mean right i got the game and i don't have to pay for it somewhen in the near future and my achievements won't get lost anymore ... but actually i am still doing what i was doing in the beta. like train mcro and macro and wait for when the game is "out" i mean like finally out like balance meant to be played and stuff... it just still feels so unfinished - not thought through entirely... like the design concept has flaws.
well c u next patch...
kinda depressing but iguess most people really think that the game is already pretty balanced for the repeatetly said so.
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On August 18 2010 00:19 Phayze wrote:
Using the ladder for statistics is a joke. Blizzard needs to hire oGs and prime for a week and have them play 1000, 2000, even 3000 games with eachother. And get their statistics from that. It's the tournaments which count, it's the mass custom games which count. Not the ladder games where players try new things, cheese, etc etc. Ladder games are usually en massed and players largely do not care about them. They either try to win immediately or try funky things. The balance issue is much more prominent in the tournament level and blizzard is, for the most part, ignoring this in favor of their botched statistics.
Using ladder for statistics is less of a joke than using TWO people for statistics.
/headdesk
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EPT
