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Dimaga may switch to Terran - Page 43

Forum Index > SC2 General
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st3roids
Profile Joined June 2010
Greece538 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-16 17:50:45
August 16 2010 17:50 GMT
#841
dimaga lost easy 4vs1 in usually around 10 mins from demuslim.

is what many have said , the more terran learn their units and new strats the more easy will start towin vs zerg lack of openings and unit selection .
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-16 17:52:42
August 16 2010 17:51 GMT
#842
The entire concept of Zerg insta-rebuilding their army is bullshit, because you can only rebuild uniits like hydra/roach. You can't rebuild Ultralisks, they take so ungodly long to build your bases will be destroyed and you'll be out of position. Same with broodlords, they'll be massively out of position and have to be morphed from corrupters, which takes farrr too long. And hydra/roach is useless in lategame composition.

I'd actually be fine with capping larvae on the hatchery at around ~7 if it meant reducing ultrabuild time. I would actually consider it a buff.
LeDuck
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany152 Posts
August 16 2010 17:54 GMT
#843
Will be very interesting to see, if Blizzard decides to push the patch forward a bit faster, terran is quite dominating at the moment and I'm not really a big fan of TvT^^
On the other hand, the game is only out a few weeks and Blizzards wants to take their time, otherwise the balance is going to be even more screwd then before.
I can somehow understand Dimaga, but it's going to suck if he changes, he is one of my favourite zerg players =/
Quack
GxZ
Profile Joined April 2010
United States375 Posts
August 16 2010 17:56 GMT
#844
Basically... playing ZvT is like playing the campaign... You have to hold two bases, while making spinecrawlers and units to hold off the attack until you can tech into ultra or bl and take a 3rd...
SlowBlink
Profile Joined August 2010
United States102 Posts
August 16 2010 18:39 GMT
#845
On August 17 2010 02:56 GxZ wrote:
Basically... playing ZvT is like playing the campaign... You have to hold two bases, while making spinecrawlers and units to hold off the attack until you can tech into ultra or bl and take a 3rd...


Thanks you so much for this insightful strategy. This will help me so much in the days to come.
EffectS
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium795 Posts
August 16 2010 18:47 GMT
#846
In top 100 according to SC2ranks.com there's 19 Zerg.... freaking 19 !!
TEEHEE
FlamingTurd
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1059 Posts
August 16 2010 18:48 GMT
#847
I completely understand your reasoning Dimaga
Nerf MMMT!!! Liquid`Ret Hwaiting!!!
Zato-1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile4253 Posts
August 16 2010 20:29 GMT
#848
On August 17 2010 02:27 Liquid`HayprO wrote:
i think the maps are a bigger reasons to the success terrans are having atm. some maps are just autowins for terran.

Which maps, and for which matchups? The only map I remember being horribly imbalanced was Incineration Zone, but that one's been out for a long time now.
Go here http://vina.biobiochile.cl/ and input the Konami Code (up up down down left right left right B A)
Marcury
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada141 Posts
August 16 2010 20:43 GMT
#849
On August 17 2010 05:29 Zato-1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2010 02:27 Liquid`HayprO wrote:
i think the maps are a bigger reasons to the success terrans are having atm. some maps are just autowins for terran.

Which maps, and for which matchups? The only map I remember being horribly imbalanced was Incineration Zone, but that one's been out for a long time now.


Lost temple TvX --> entrance makes it really really difficult to attack with siege tanks on ridge. In TvZ thor drop overlooking natural is a nightmare to deal with.

Kulas Ravine --> Once again, so many ridges for tanks/reapers to abuse

Delta Quadrant --> Both expansions can be tanked from ONE high ground

To name a few. Many maps are also way too crowded IMO, lots of narrow chokes and not a lot of room to flank or out maneuver against the (supposed) immobile terran.
shtdisturbance
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada613 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-16 21:03:35
August 16 2010 21:02 GMT
#850
I agree with people who have commented on the map imbalance.
Why does every map have some sort of cliff or whole or other annoying artifact in the middle of the map? For example LT, lets just pretend that cliff above natural is not there because that is just ridiculous in itself. In the middle of the map when the T pushes i want to have flanks of baneling, zergling infestor, and what ever other unit i have chosen. Why is there 4 random things sticking out of the ground so that im funneled and my flank is pretty much useless cause i cant even surround... Python please.
Zato-1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile4253 Posts
August 16 2010 21:09 GMT
#851
On August 17 2010 05:43 Marcury wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2010 05:29 Zato-1 wrote:
On August 17 2010 02:27 Liquid`HayprO wrote:
i think the maps are a bigger reasons to the success terrans are having atm. some maps are just autowins for terran.

Which maps, and for which matchups? The only map I remember being horribly imbalanced was Incineration Zone, but that one's been out for a long time now.


Lost temple TvX --> entrance makes it really really difficult to attack with siege tanks on ridge. In TvZ thor drop overlooking natural is a nightmare to deal with.

This one makes a lot of sense. I haven't ever played against Terran in LT, but I can see the potential of that ledge plus tanks.

Kulas, I don't quite agree. As Protoss at least, I've also been able to abuse the cliffs to harass the Terran right back, and there's so much space for me to expand to that granting Terrans control of a small chunk of the map isn't game breaking, IMO.

As to Delta Quadrant, I've never played there, so nothing I can say.
Go here http://vina.biobiochile.cl/ and input the Konami Code (up up down down left right left right B A)
Pking
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden142 Posts
August 16 2010 21:15 GMT
#852
On August 17 2010 03:47 EffectS wrote:
In top 100 according to SC2ranks.com there's 19 Zerg.... freaking 19 !!


This is'nt as bad as it sounds as Zerg is the least popular race played. Looking at the top 5000 races in the different leagues, about 21-25% play Zerg. If the game was perfectly balanced, 21-25 out of top 100 would be Zerg. So that is not overwhelming signs of imbalance.
Trok67
Profile Joined May 2010
France384 Posts
August 16 2010 21:18 GMT
#853
On August 17 2010 06:15 Pking wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2010 03:47 EffectS wrote:
In top 100 according to SC2ranks.com there's 19 Zerg.... freaking 19 !!


This is'nt as bad as it sounds as Zerg is the least popular race played. Looking at the top 5000 races in the different leagues, about 21-25% play Zerg. If the game was perfectly balanced, 21-25 out of top 100 would be Zerg. So that is not overwhelming signs of imbalance.


No you can't say that. People play zerg less in every division because they just suck, and they suck even more on low level division because they are harder to play. Zerg aren't less popular at beginning, they just are less played because it's way harder to play them and even when you are pretty good they stay weaker than the others race (with ZvT the worst matchup)
Iggyhopper
Profile Joined July 2010
United States259 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-16 21:26:20
August 16 2010 21:19 GMT
#854
On August 17 2010 02:27 Liquid`HayprO wrote:
i think the maps are a bigger reasons to the success terrans are having atm. some maps are just autowins for terran.

Agreed. Some maps are even autolosses. For example, TvZ in a map with a ramp and then a destructible rock ramp. Destroy rocks, and then Zerg wins just because of the fact that Terran has an open entrance.

TvT is amazing.
PvT is amazing but dull.
PvP is horrendous.
PvZ is ?
ZvZ is worse than PvP.
TvZ is rofl.
GreatFall
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1061 Posts
August 16 2010 21:22 GMT
#855
I hope this results in at least some Zerg love from Blizz.
Inventor of the 'Burning Tide' technique to quickly getting Outmatched Crusher achivement :D
virgozero
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada412 Posts
August 16 2010 21:29 GMT
#856
PvZ is interesting imo.
Zato-1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile4253 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-16 21:38:39
August 16 2010 21:36 GMT
#857
On August 15 2010 12:49 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2010 12:47 kajeus wrote:
On August 15 2010 11:09 IdrA wrote:
On August 15 2010 10:58 Tanatos wrote:
Zerg is fine race if you are korean

korean zergs are barely any more represented in the highest ranks than foreigners, half the time the top 10 is 7 terrans 2 protosses and whichever 1 of 5 zergs happened to hit a win streak recently.

By the way, this isn't actually true. Zerg is proportionally quite overrepresented in the Korean top 100 (e.g.). They are 29% of the top 100 but only 21.65% of diamond league.

Now, I'm NOT saying everything is fine, because the evidence that something is very wrong is building and building. However, it's simply incorrect to say that the zergs are underrepresented at the top in Korea, even now.

i said top 10
and you really need to stop posting, statistics are irrelevant because when we talk about balance we mean the very best. not the top 50, top 100, top whatever. the people who are relevant in tournaments.

I'm kinda late for the discussion on balance vs. statistics, but I made a nice post on another thread on why Statistics will NOT show imbalance unless you're looking at them right; I'll just shamelessly quote myself from this thread
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=144675
+ Show Spoiler +
OP: Do a small thought experiment with me, will you?

Imagine that you know 3 players among the vast numbers of players on Battle.net. Skill-wise, two of them (who play Terran and Zerg) belong in mid Platinum. Another one (Protoss), skill-wise, belongs in mid Gold.

However, in this hypothetical example, Zerg is so massively underpowered compared to the other two races, that other T and P players who belong in mid platinum will generally crush Zerg players of the same skill level.

So, our Zerg player, who skill-wise belongs in mid platinum, gets bumped down to Gold. There, he's facing other somewhat-skilled Zergs and less-skilled Protoss and Terran players. There, he can compensate for his weaker race with his greater skill. And he will achieve the same winrate as the less-skilled Protoss in Gold, and the equally-skilled Terran in Platinum; roughly 50%.

Battle.net matchmaking is DESIGNED to make everyone have roughly the same winrate over a large number of games (unless they're at the very top or at the very bottom), ergo the winrate and rating of the pack of players at the middle means squat. The only things it could reveal would be matchup-specific imbalances; for instance, if you had T>Z, Z>P, and P>T, then players would tend to lose versus the race they're weak against and win versus the race they're strong against.

If you want to know whether imbalances exist, go look at the very top; if one race is hugely over-represented, it's a fair assumption that some of the players there might not belong at the very top, skill-wise, while others of the under-represented races who don't quite make it rank-wise, do belong there, skill-wise. Or, ask the progamers; if they, who know and understand the game best of all, generally agree on an imbalance, then that's also telling.


So yeah. For all his quoting of statistics, kajeus is a noob when it comes to interpreting them, and (surprise!) IdrA was right.
Go here http://vina.biobiochile.cl/ and input the Konami Code (up up down down left right left right B A)
Pking
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden142 Posts
August 16 2010 22:06 GMT
#858
On August 17 2010 06:18 Trok67 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2010 06:15 Pking wrote:
On August 17 2010 03:47 EffectS wrote:
In top 100 according to SC2ranks.com there's 19 Zerg.... freaking 19 !!


This is'nt as bad as it sounds as Zerg is the least popular race played. Looking at the top 5000 races in the different leagues, about 21-25% play Zerg. If the game was perfectly balanced, 21-25 out of top 100 would be Zerg. So that is not overwhelming signs of imbalance.


No you can't say that. People play zerg less in every division because they just suck, and they suck even more on low level division because they are harder to play. Zerg aren't less popular at beginning, they just are less played because it's way harder to play them and even when you are pretty good they stay weaker than the others race (with ZvT the worst matchup)


If 21-25% choose Zerg for whatever reason, and 19% play Zerg in the top 100, then we get slightly less than the expected result if the race is balanced (overall). I'm just saying that "OMG only 19 Zerg in top 100!!!11" is not a blatant sign of imblance as it looks.
Fojji
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom217 Posts
August 16 2010 22:07 GMT
#859
I don't think it' as bad as people make it out to be, but I agree with what others have said that maps play a huge role in this lineup (siege tanks on lost temple for a short obvious example) - some maps terrans have it so easy and there's few of those for zerg (desert oasis is even debateable).

Some minor zerg tweaking and map changing will do just the trick, blizzard has to announce something soon -.-
EffectS
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium795 Posts
August 16 2010 22:12 GMT
#860
On August 17 2010 06:15 Pking wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2010 03:47 EffectS wrote:
In top 100 according to SC2ranks.com there's 19 Zerg.... freaking 19 !!


This is'nt as bad as it sounds as Zerg is the least popular race played. Looking at the top 5000 races in the different leagues, about 21-25% play Zerg. If the game was perfectly balanced, 21-25 out of top 100 would be Zerg. So that is not overwhelming signs of imbalance.


Ye, but if you see Random as perhaps a 9% (tops that is) than other races should be 30% each; but if one race is is below 10% of that, that's a clear sign of imbalance to me.

And you're right, I'm only looking at the top 100; but they are the best performing players afterall, and they are that for good reason; because they're the "masters" of their race.
TEEHEE
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